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newres
Itís coming.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independ...7686.html%3famp

SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Aug 6 2018, 07:58 AM) *


FAKE NEWS!!! wink.gif wink.gif wink.gif Never let the facts get in the way of a good story. There again the whole sorry saga could just have been down to a miscount.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Aug 6 2018, 07:58 AM) *


Dream on... Though it would be funny in a way when leave won again. What would you do as a matter of interest? Demand a best of 5?😂
TallDarkAndHandsome
Duplicate. **** 4g.
newres
Weíll see my faux northern friend.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 6 2018, 05:17 PM) *
Dream on... Though it would be funny in a way when leave won again. What would you do as a matter of interest? Demand a best of 5?😂


I would like to see remain win and then the leave brigade can justifiably cry foul and demand a third. In fact we could run it every eighteen months as a national pastime, bit like horse of the year show. cool.gif
user23
I think Jacob Rees-Mogg is correct in this video, and we should have a referendum on the final deal.

https://metro.co.uk/video/jacob-rees-mogg-s...6/?ito=vjs-link
Biker1
QUOTE (newres @ Aug 6 2018, 07:58 AM) *

What another one!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif
Strafin
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 6 2018, 07:58 PM) *
I would like to see remain win and then the leave brigade can justifiably cry foul and demand a third. In fact we could run it every eighteen months as a national pastime, bit like horse of the year show. cool.gif

Remain have won. Brexit no longer means Brexit whatever happens now.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 7 2018, 09:06 AM) *
Remain have won. Brexit no longer means Brexit whatever happens now.

What a cr0ck of sh1t. How have remain won? Its a case of may or may not ne a hard brexit and you certainly dont "win" anything without a vote. We had one and leave won. If we have another leave will win again. Remainers only follow remainer news....
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 7 2018, 06:07 PM) *
What a cr0ck of sh1t. How have remain won? Its a case of may or may not ne a hard brexit and you certainly dont "win" anything without a vote. We had one and leave won. If we have another leave will win again. Remainers only follow remainer news....

Well Rees Mogg and David Davies are on record as backing a second vote so hopefully weíll get a chance to vote on the deal.

Whatís become clear is thereís no negotiation to be done and thereís no real deal to be had so in light of that we ought to get an ďare you really sure about thisĒ vote. Iím sure weíll still vote leave so I canít see a problem. The important thing is that we know what weíre voting for now.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Aug 7 2018, 07:16 PM) *
Well Rees Mogg and David Davies are on record as backing a second vote so hopefully weíll get a chance to vote on the deal.

Whatís become clear is thereís no negotiation to be done and thereís no real deal to be had so in light of that we ought to get an ďare you really sure about thisĒ vote. Iím sure weíll still vote leave so I canít see a problem. The important thing is that we know what weíre voting for now.


You are spot on about there being no negotiation. There hasn't been since day one. In negotiation terms the EU has maintained a take it or leave it stance. Commercially, when that happens only answer is to walk away and do something else. A real negotiating team would have come home several months back, and far from being 'nice' to EU Heads of State, that ends now surely?

TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 7 2018, 08:11 PM) *
You are spot on about there being no negotiation. There hasn't been since day one. In negotiation terms the EU has maintained a take it or leave it stance. Commercially, when that happens only answer is to walk away and do something else. A real negotiating team would have come home several months back, and far from being 'nice' to EU Heads of State, that ends now surely?


Time for a bit of hard ball. Tell the germans we dont want german cars and the french can stick the champers, wine and cheese up there @rse. We have a lovely continental climate for vineyards now. Oh and lets close the channel tunnel.😂 Time to go all "Trump". Actually would have been better to do it 2 years ago. We may have got somewhere by now if we had.
Biker1
QUOTE (newres @ Aug 7 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The important thing is that we know what we’re voting for now.

Do we?
I'm unsure of the consequences of staying in!!
No one has explained that to me because no-one knows.
So either way do we know what we are voting for in the long term without a crystal ball?
On the edge
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 8 2018, 06:11 AM) *
Do we?
I'm unsure of the consequences of staying in!!
No one has explained that to me because no-one knows.
So either way do we know what we are voting for in the long term without a crystal ball?


This is actually something that ought to be pushed and pushed hard. Certainly the scenarios I've heard aren't good and frankly rather disturbing. There is one worse alternative; going back. Now we've really seen and tasted the attitude a return would not be even worth contemplating.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 7 2018, 09:06 AM) *
Remain have won. Brexit no longer means Brexit whatever happens now.

Err yes, it does. Brexit means Brexit. Where do these people go to school?
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Aug 13 2018, 12:13 AM) *
Err yes, it does. Brexit means Brexit. Where do these people go to school?


Strasbourg ? tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Strafin
The only person I have heard talk any sense about Brexit is Danny Dyer because the only facts are, nobody knows! There are people who voted for Brexit who would like a hard Irish border. There are people who voted Brexit who don't. There are people who voted Brexit and wanted to stay in the customs union and plenty who don't. They are all leave voters, they are not all getting what they voted for.
newres
With every passing day, it gets a little closer. The irony of it all is that the ERG are making it more likely and Brexit less so.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Nov 18 2018, 08:06 PM) *
With every passing day, it gets a little closer. The irony of it all is that the ERG are making it more likely and Brexit less so.


So does xmas, but that doesn't mean everyone welcomes it's arrival. cool.gif
Strafin
mellow.gif

I've changed my mind on the whole 2nd referendum thing. We shouldn't have one now, it's too late it's done.

Brexit is stupid, and already has caused so much discourse and hardship, and will continue to do so. There is nothing socially to be gained now, we are divided and the baby boomers have again messed everything up for everyone else. But we have let them, and so there is only one way forward. Get behind the worst prime minister we've had for years and get behind what is widely considered to be a terrible deal for everyone.

The only thing we have is damage limitation and a nod to trying to save a bit of the economy, only stability and certainty will encourage business to settle down and start to invest again. So that's what we need to do.

Maybe a general election after a leadership contest in the summer. Let the Mp's do it on their own time.
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ Nov 19 2018, 08:58 AM) *
mellow.gif

I've changed my mind on the whole 2nd referendum thing. We shouldn't have one now, it's too late it's done.

Brexit is stupid, and already has caused so much discourse and hardship, and will continue to do so. There is nothing socially to be gained now, we are divided and the baby boomers have again messed everything up for everyone else. But we have let them, and so there is only way forward. Get behind the worst prime minister we've had for years and get behind what is widely considered to be a terrible deal for everyone.

The only thing we have is damage limitation and a nod to trying to save a bit of the economy, only stability and certainty will encourage business to settle down and start to invest again. So that's what we need to do.

Maybe a general election after a leadership contest in the summer. Let the Mp's do it on their own time.

Well Iíd go along with that, but it ainít gonna happen according to the experts. She wonít get it through. Thatís why there will be a second referendum.
dannyboy
QUOTE (Strafin @ Nov 19 2018, 08:58 AM) *
mellow.gif

I've changed my mind on the whole 2nd referendum thing. We shouldn't have one now, it's too late it's done.

Brexit is stupid, and already has caused so much discourse and hardship, and will continue to do so. There is nothing socially to be gained now, we are divided and the baby boomers have again messed everything up for everyone else. But we have let them, and so there is only one way forward. Get behind the worst prime minister we've had for years and get behind what is widely considered to be a terrible deal for everyone.

The only thing we have is damage limitation and a nod to trying to save a bit of the economy, only stability and certainty will encourage business to settle down and start to invest again. So that's what we need to do.

Maybe a general election after a leadership contest in the summer. Let the Mp's do it on their own time.



I do hope we get the full Hard Brexit.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Nov 20 2018, 04:13 PM) *
I do hope we get the full Hard Brexit.


To be honest it is the only way if we are to have anything like a prosperous future. A federal Europe is a recipe for disaster and the halfway house as proposed by the (present) government will drag us down with it. The only reason the spineless twits in westminster didn't put in a letter of no confidence was the thought of opening the no 10 door for JC to stroll through and that was a worse option than allowing Mother T to carry on with her crap plan. The fact that Labour is even less electable than the Tories only shows what a useless bunch of retards we have in office. The only ones laughing at our dire position are Jean Claude Juncker and his associated cronies and it is humiliating to those who hold this Country dear. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 20 2018, 06:51 PM) *
To be honest it is the only way if we are to have anything like a prosperous future. A federal Europe is a recipe for disaster and the halfway house as proposed by the (present) government will drag us down with it. The only reason the spineless twits in westminster didn't put in a letter of no confidence was the thought of opening the no 10 door for JC to stroll through and that was a worse option than allowing Mother T to carry on with her crap plan. The fact that Labour is even less electable than the Tories only shows what a useless bunch of retards we have in office. The only ones laughing at our dire position are Jean Claude Juncker and his associated cronies and it is humiliating to those who hold this Country dear. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif

Don't try to switch dopes in the middle of a fix!
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 20 2018, 06:51 PM) *
To be honest it is the only way if we are to have anything like a prosperous future. A federal Europe is a recipe for disaster and the halfway house as proposed by the (present) government will drag us down with it. The only reason the spineless twits in westminster didn't put in a letter of no confidence was the thought of opening the no 10 door for JC to stroll through and that was a worse option than allowing Mother T to carry on with her crap plan. The fact that Labour is even less electable than the Tories only shows what a useless bunch of retards we have in office. The only ones laughing at our dire position are Jean Claude Juncker and his associated cronies and it is humiliating to those who hold this Country dear. angry.gif angry.gif angry.gif

I'm laughing too! The government are armed with the data and they know a hard Brexit will be disastrous. Do you honestly think they wouldn't do it if they thought it would be at worst neutral? They would be trumpteted as heroes if they could deliver it.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Nov 20 2018, 07:14 PM) *
I'm laughing too! The government are armed with the data and they know a hard Brexit will be disastrous. Do you honestly think they wouldn't do it if they thought it would be at worst neutral? They would be trumpteted as heroes if they could deliver it.


Bit like Cameron when he offered a referendum in the misguided belief that it would derail the supposed threat of UKIP? Yes they really do have their collective finger on the Countries pulse don't they. Face it, they are all incompetent; so why does Mother T want a soft brexit? Because she thinks that if it goes t**s up labour will sweep to power and spend the next 10 years telling everyone that it was the Tories fault we are in a financial mire. The great unwashed voted to leave and leave we must. In '74 over a third of the electorate voted no but I do not recollect them crying foul like a bunch of petulant school kids or asking for another vote; no, we got on with being a EU member and now we have decided that it is a club we do not wish to be a member of so we are ending our contract.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 20 2018, 07:43 PM) *
Bit like Cameron when he offered a referendum in the misguided belief that it would derail the supposed threat of UKIP? Yes they really do have their collective finger on the Countries pulse don't they. Face it, they are all incompetent; so why does Mother T want a soft brexit? Because she thinks that if it goes t**s up labour will sweep to power and spend the next 10 years telling everyone that it was the Tories fault we are in a financial mire. The great unwashed voted to leave and leave we must. In '74 over a third of the electorate voted no but I do not recollect them crying foul like a bunch of petulant school kids or asking for another vote; no, we got on with being a EU member and now we have decided that it is a club we do not wish to be a member of so we are ending our contract.

The question is, what did they vote for? We were told the EU would give us an amazing deal because our market was so highly prized. People believed that. How many voted for a hard Brexit with WTO? How many had heard of it? It was too simple a question. Now I believe we have enough knowledge to make an informed decision.

That said, my preference would be TMís deal. But it wonít happen Iím guessing.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Nov 20 2018, 07:59 PM) *
The question is, what did they vote for? We were told the EU would give us an amazing deal because our market was so highly prized. People believed that. How many voted for a hard Brexit with WTO? How many had heard of it? It was too simple a question. Now I believe we have enough knowledge to make an informed decision.

That said, my preference would be TMís deal. But it wonít happen Iím guessing.


OMG the electorate need to know what they are voting for. laugh.gif I agree there was about as much information bandied about in the referendum as a food label on a Mcdonalds burger but the question wasn't "Do you want to remain and negotiate a better deal; or leave with an amended deal". No it was quite simple "Do you wish to remain in the EU or leave"? 17 million then decided they wanted to leave for probably as many reasons.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 20 2018, 08:23 PM) *
OMG the electorate need to know what they are voting for. laugh.gif I agree there was about as much information bandied about in the referendum as a food label on a Mcdonalds burger but the question wasn't "Do you want to remain and negotiate a better deal; or leave with an amended deal". No it was quite simple "Do you wish to remain in the EU or leave"? 17 million then decided they wanted to leave for probably as many reasons.

And very nearly the same number voted to stay. Personally I would vote for Theresa Mayís deal. But the most likely outcome of MPs not backing it is another referendum or a GE. But I think there has been enough division.
Strafin
Less than half the country voted for it, so we shouldn't even be at this juncture anyway. I agree about JC though, I really thought he was going to be radical and keep the pressure on. Whether you like him or not he offered a very different alternative. But now he just sits on the fence critcising.
je suis Charlie
We're stuffed, options now are either a; no Brexit (with new social unrest, rise of ukip etc) or b; a no deal Brexit.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Nov 21 2018, 10:03 PM) *
We're stuffed, options now are either a; no Brexit (with new social unrest, rise of ukip etc) or b; a no deal Brexit.


What is wrong with a no deal scenario? Yes it's going to cause a headache for a few very quickly but life will continue won't it? I do not recall anyone saying at the time that we will be propelled back into the stone age if we leave; the simple truth is we don't know and we should just get on with it. Our biggest problem will not having political leadership at the helm of a pretty big ship.
To be honest with the increasing yob mentality in this Country Europe is probably secretly breathing a sigh of relief to see the back of us.

spartacus
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Nov 22 2018, 09:14 AM) *
.....Europe is probably secretly breathing a sigh of relief to see the back of us.
The Merkels, Macrons and Junckers of the EU can't wait to see the back of us but are secretly glad that we seem to have made such a spectacular balls up of the whole leaving process that we've frightened off any other nation that was thinking about following us through the door. Our weak and indecisive politicians have kicked the can and kicked it again and now we're in a mess we can't get out of without putting ourselves in the weak and pathetic position of asking for favours to allow us to stay in for a bit longer 'till we can sort it out'. I despair...
je suis Charlie
Now the real fun begins.
SirWilliam
So a couple of hours before the westminster pantomime kicks off we now know what the final outcome will be. Chequers deal will be voted out; Mother T will go back to Brussels and over a liquid lunch with Jean-Claude they will concoct "plan B". This in essence means a third plebiscite and as the majority of brexiteers have either given up or shot themselves in desperation the vote will fall in the no's corner. Tory backbenchers will mutter over their port, Liberals will howl for change in the electoral system and Labour will still be following JC having lost a golden opportunity to gain power. We will of course be grateful to all sane members of the European race and Federalism will ensue in time.
History will show it in a different light and academics will debate the issues for generations to come but by this time we will all be speaking German and the ice cap will have melted.
Good thing or bad thing? To be honest I haven't got a clue, (nothing new there), but it certainly has kept the art of conversation in vogue for the past couple of years. rolleyes.gif

ps. Merry xmas boys and girls.
je suis Charlie
Express.co.uk: Remainer expat bid to plot to BLOCK BREXIT fails - 2016 referendum result WILL STAND.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/105...sels-referendum

Hooray! Democracy 1, Whingers 0.
TallDarkAndHandsome
I have come to the conclusion that we should listen to the economic "experts" like Carney, Hammond and co and not leave the EU and ignore the democratic vote and revoke Article 50.

This does set a precedent though. These same experts also say that any Corbyn victory would seriously damage the economy. So if he did ever win a General election I would suggest it would be foolish to allow it to stand and we would have to just ignore the result.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2018, 07:06 AM) *
I have come to the conclusion that we should listen to the economic "experts" like Carney, Hammond and co and not leave the EU and ignore the democratic vote and revoke Article 50.

This does set a precedent though. These same experts also say that any Corbyn victory would seriously damage the economy. So if he did ever win a General election I would suggest it would be foolish to allow it to stand and we would have to just ignore the result.

Although ofcourse we can vote Corbyn out in 5 years. How about we have a trial leaving of the EU? But perhaps not the 50 years Mogg reckons it will take to know if it was a success? Or we keep Labour for 50 years?
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2018, 07:06 AM) *
I have come to the conclusion that we should listen to the economic "experts" like Carney, Hammond and co and not leave the EU and ignore the democratic vote and revoke Article 50.

This does set a precedent though. These same experts also say that any Corbyn victory would seriously damage the economy. So if he did ever win a General election I would suggest it would be foolish to allow it to stand and we would have to just ignore the result.


Is this the reasoning behind the SNP's stance on a "free" Scotland vote? The Greeks chucked their fledgling democracy into the long grass because they didn't like the results it threw up and very little has changed in two and half thousand years. I still believe we will return to Brussels with our tales between our legs and say it was a bit of a mistake and could we possibly rejoin your gang? Jean Claude will open an expensive claret and welcome us back on the understanding our annual contribution is doubled in order to compensate those EU farmers/fishermen who have had a couple of sleepless nights over seeing one of their markets disappear but other than that "Bien sŻr vous mťchant personne vous"...........Or words to that effect. rolleyes.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Dec 14 2018, 07:26 AM) *
Although ofcourse we can vote Corbyn out in 5 years. How about we have a trial leaving of the EU? But perhaps not the 50 years Mogg reckons it will take to know if it was a success? Or we keep Labour for 50 years?

Elections should now be abandoned and we should have appointed economic experts to decide who should be in charge. The people can't be trusted to vote the "right" way. This is the future.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2018, 05:10 PM) *
Elections should now be abandoned and we should have appointed economic experts to decide who should be in charge. The people can't be trusted to vote the "right" way. This is the future.

Yes, itís undemocratic to let us vote on the deal.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2018, 05:10 PM) *
Elections should now be abandoned and we should have appointed economic experts to decide who should be in charge. The people can't be trusted to vote the "right" way. This is the future.


Appoint economists to position of power? You must be mad.........Bring back May/Corbyn even Cleggy, all is forgiven. laugh.gif
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Dec 14 2018, 06:41 PM) *
Yes, itís undemocratic to let us vote on the deal.

You had a vote, it was called 'the referendum'. A second bite of the cherry just panders to the whining, democracy abusing losers.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Dec 14 2018, 06:41 PM) *
Yes, itís undemocratic to let us vote on the deal.


Democracy is dying. You killed it. Better get used to it.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Dec 14 2018, 07:28 PM) *
Democracy is dying. You killed it. Better get used to it.


Going to be replaced by "Who can shout the loudest" . Seems one of your better ideas. smile.gif
SirWilliam
So Amber Rudd has tossed what is, to the uninitiated, an approach that should have been adopted 18 months ago; that is an across the political board a common consensus on the UK's position. Now we all know JC would rather take up holy orders than get into bed, (metaphorically speaking), with Mother Teresa, so this is a non starter but as it is now 11th hour time any impasse in the House can now be placed at the descenter's door. Checkmate. Remoaners will demand we ask those nice people in Brussels if we can extend our "execution" until we have asked the great unwashed once more which will be "grudgingly" granted and next time we will vote correctly. (Silly electorate).

Put your house/ pension/ Uncle George's teapot collection on the status quo. cool.gif
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Dec 15 2018, 11:17 AM) *
So Amber Rudd has tossed what is, to the uninitiated, an approach that should have been adopted 18 months ago; that is an across the political board a common consensus on the UK's position. Now we all know JC would rather take up holy orders than get into bed, (metaphorically speaking), with Mother Teresa, so this is a non starter but as it is now 11th hour time any impasse in the House can now be placed at the descenter's door. Checkmate. Remoaners will demand we ask those nice people in Brussels if we can extend our "execution" until we have asked the great unwashed once more which will be "grudgingly" granted and next time we will vote correctly. (Silly electorate).

Put your house/ pension/ Uncle George's teapot collection on the status quo. cool.gif

Norway model. Wonít that do you?
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Dec 15 2018, 11:59 AM) *
Norway model. Wonít that do you?


I have given up on a position, so it's now more a case of where we end up and I can't see the Norway model being anything more than a means to an end and that is still being a card carrying member of the EU.

I may of course be completely wrong and everything in the garden will be roses. laugh.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Dec 15 2018, 11:59 AM) *
Norway model. Wonít that do you?

Have you given up on the #fbpe loons then?
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