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newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 12 2019, 04:10 PM) *
No more than an equally compelling argument to remain a member. Our destiny is in our hands and it is up to us to get off our backsides and build a prosperous country for the benefit of it's inhabitants as opposed to chucking the petty cash into the european collection box.
I voted to join in the early 70s to the derision of the old boys who had fought 2 wars and knew a great deal more than most about german aspirations. If they were around today they would give a wry smile and say "told you so".

Being at the heart of the largest most successful trading bloc on the planet doesn't swing it?
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 04:41 PM) *
Being at the heart of the largest most successful trading bloc on the planet doesn't swing it?

Being at the 💓 laugh.gif
je suis Charlie
Trying to get away from the corruption maybe?

The European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker's best buddy, lawyer friend and previously chief enforcer (Head of Cabinet to the President of the Commission) Martin Selmayr has suddenly been promoted to the highest civil service position in the Commission - secretary-general - despite not being able to get the position by appointment due to not having served the required time in sufficiently senior roles.

How? Well, his experience meant that he was able to secure appointment to the role of deputy secretary-general, which became vacant in January. His appointment was confirmed at a meeting on February 21st.

The next order of business at that meeting was the resignation of the standing secretary-general, Alexander Italianer. In order to prevent a gap at the top of the civil service tree, Juncker then promoted the deputy secretary-general to the position of secretary general... which was his buddy Martin Selmayr who had just been appointed DSG five minutes previously.

*******. Bent. As. ****.

First broken by Liberation: http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2018/0 ... on_1632200
And, in English, it's being investigated. Good luck with that: https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/ar ... -promotion
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 04:41 PM) *
Being at the heart of the largest most successful trading bloc on the planet doesn't swing it?


Nope.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 12 2019, 03:18 PM) *
Pointless even trying to engage with this one, doesn't bother to read anything, doesn't understand anything, all he's interested in is trying to prove he's a left wing intellectual, which he's not. I can imagine him pounding the keyboard with his forehead, throwing it down on the desk then strutting around the room mumbling "I haz skilz, deyz all wrong, dey dunt no nuffink, der intetweb must be broke". I'm sitting here in my office giggling softly at his idiocy, just waiting for the next gem to tumble onto the screen. It's probably going to be "all right wing nazi voters are thickos". No plot twists here my boys.

I fear you may be right, I have tried but he's just not interested, just more anger, more bile.
TallDarkAndHandsome
It seems like Guy is getting in a little temper tantrum about Italy now.
Poor soul....

https://mobile.twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/s...384735323484160

Overwhelming support again in the replies.😂

je suis Charlie
Hungary is telling their people "Have four children and pay no income tax for life". So who's going to end up filling that financial gap.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 12 2019, 08:52 PM) *
Hungary is telling their people "Have four children and pay no income tax for life". So who's going to end up filling that financial gap.

That's what happens when you try to harmoginise many countries into one superstate.... still the EU stormtroopers will soon sort it...

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ozkok_/status/1094300752443592706



Turin Machine
"The EU looks like the Soviet Union in 1991 – on the verge of collapse"

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...ns-george-soros
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 12 2019, 04:49 PM) *
Trying to get away from the corruption maybe?

The European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker's best buddy, lawyer friend and previously chief enforcer (Head of Cabinet to the President of the Commission) Martin Selmayr has suddenly been promoted to the highest civil service position in the Commission - secretary-general - despite not being able to get the position by appointment due to not having served the required time in sufficiently senior roles.

How? Well, his experience meant that he was able to secure appointment to the role of deputy secretary-general, which became vacant in January. His appointment was confirmed at a meeting on February 21st.

The next order of business at that meeting was the resignation of the standing secretary-general, Alexander Italianer. In order to prevent a gap at the top of the civil service tree, Juncker then promoted the deputy secretary-general to the position of secretary general... which was his buddy Martin Selmayr who had just been appointed DSG five minutes previously.

*******. Bent. As. ****.

First broken by Liberation: http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2018/0 ... on_1632200
And, in English, it's being investigated. Good luck with that: https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/ar ... -promotion


Further news today.
Express.co.uk: EU flouted its rules by promoting Juncker aide Selmayr to top Brussels job says watchdog.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/108620...-Claude-Juncker

Strafin
That doesn't demonstrate a tangible benefit though. Just shows that politicians can and do all look after their own.
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 13 2019, 10:59 AM) *
That doesn't demonstrate a tangible benefit though. Just shows that politicians can and do all look after their own.

There isn't one. You can see from the above exchanges how illogical it all is. The people are the wealthy elite with their Range Rovers, yachts and board positions, but they haven't got a coherent argument for Brexit between them.
je suis Charlie
It's an oft-quoted thing. "Those who actively seek responsibility are almost certainly going to use it for twattery and should be denied it". Probably Abraham Lincoln or Morgan Freeman. Or Twitter.
Strafin
Did you vote leave JSC ? You don't have to say of course, I am just curious. Especially with your French moniker.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 13 2019, 12:21 PM) *
Did you vote leave JSC ? You don't have to say of course, I am just curious. Especially with your French moniker.

Actually, now someone actually bothered to ask, no, I didn't, I voted stay. However, if we had a second vote I might vote leave, I've got a contract with a French customer up for renewal this year that might fall through if we go 'no deal' but I'll face that if it happens. What I'm really in more interested in is that over 17 million voters voted leave and yet that is deemed irrelevant to some people. It's a matter of democracy in my eyes, something citizens of this country have laid down their lives for. It's important.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 13 2019, 01:27 PM) *
Actually, now someone actually bothered to ask, no, I didn't, I voted stay. However, if we had a second vote I might vote leave, I've got a contract with a French customer up for renewal this year that might fall through if we go 'no deal' but I'll face that if it happens. What I'm really in more interested in is that over 17 million voters voted leave and yet that is deemed irrelevant to some people. It's a matter of democracy in my eyes, something citizens of this country have laid down their lives for. It's important.

In that case you should accept that it was a snapshot vote on that day. There were lies told and there were protest votes (I know one person who voted leave but wanted to remain but give Cameron a bloody nose). The truly democratic thing would be a final vote on the deal or remain. Polls indicate 56% would vote remain now.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 02:56 PM) *
In that case you should accept that it was a snapshot vote on that day. There were lies told and there were protest votes (I know one person who voted leave but wanted to remain but give Cameron a bloody nose). The truly democratic thing would be a final vote on the deal or remain. Polls indicate 56% would vote remain now.


Nope, we had a vote, that's it, you can't keep the rerunning it just because you don't like the results. That way chaos lies, the result was arrived at democratically and like it or not it should be respected.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 02:56 PM) *
In that case you should accept that it was a snapshot vote on that day. There were lies told and there were protest votes (I know one person who voted leave but wanted to remain but give Cameron a bloody nose). The truly democratic thing would be a final vote on the deal or remain. Polls indicate 56% would vote remain now.


Ok but can we have another vote if remain only win by a bit?
I mean.. we need to be consistent.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 02:56 PM) *
In that case you should accept that it was a snapshot vote on that day. There were lies told and there were protest votes (I know one person who voted leave but wanted to remain but give Cameron a bloody nose). The truly democratic thing would be a final vote on the deal or remain. Polls indicate 56% would vote remain now.


If you are of the belief that the great unwashed voted leave because of the rantings of Farage/Johnson/daily wail then you are as deluded as the ***** that think we will change our minds if they keep banging on about it. We voted leave because it was patently obvious that our politicians were more concerned with jollys with their EU counterparts than looking after the interests of the many. Oh the media threw the immigration stick into the pot because it suited vested interest to label leavers as right wing racists, (ring any bells?), but the vote would have been exactly the same had it been conducted 20 years earlier so even though you may consider it a folly, 17 million can't all be obtuse troglodytes with an iq of 4.5, so accept it graciously.

"If you do not like the answer then why ask the question?" seems appropriate. rolleyes.gif
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 13 2019, 03:58 PM) *
Ok but can we have another vote if remain only win by a bit?
I mean.. we need to be consistent.

Here's where it gets interesting of course, one of the 'reasons' we should vote again is because, and I quote " there is a whole slice of the voting public who weren't old enough to vote at the time, they should have a say!". Ok, so shall we have a referendum every year then? Because the logic (if you can call it that) holds true, there will be another slice next year, and the year after, ad infinitum. Nonsense logic, but some trot it out.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 13 2019, 04:54 PM) *
Here's where it gets interesting of course, one of the 'reasons' we should vote again is because, and I quote " there is a whole slice of the voting public who weren't old enough to vote at the time, they should have a say!". Ok, so shall we have a referendum every year then? Because the logic (if you can call it that) holds true, there will be another slice next year, and the year after, ad infinitum. Nonsense logic, but some trot it out.

You missed the bit about all the old gits that died. laugh.gif
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 06:03 PM) *
You missed the bit about all the old gits that died. laugh.gif


Thanks for reminding me. smile.gif
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 13 2019, 06:25 PM) *
Thanks for reminding me. smile.gif

What are you moaning about? You’re still here. tongue.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 06:03 PM) *
You missed the bit about all the old gits that died. laugh.gif

The funny thing is the average age of a UK citizen has risen since brexit. It is rising all the time and is now 40. So the whole argument is completely flawed.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 13 2019, 07:01 PM) *
The funny thing is the average age of a UK citizen has risen since brexit. It is rising all the time and is now 40. So the whole argument is completely flawed.

People are more educated though. More graduates.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 07:18 PM) *
People are more educated though. More graduates.

Graduates? Educated? You mean brain washed.🤣 They soon learn and become gammony as they age.🤣🤣🤣
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 13 2019, 07:40 PM) *
Graduates? Educated? You mean brain washed.🤣 They soon learn and become gammony as they age.🤣🤣🤣

Graduates in what? media studies? gender Studies? (yes that's a real thing) There always The Mc University of course. Jeez save us from this endless stream of mediocrity.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 13 2019, 07:51 PM) *
Graduates in what? media studies? gender Studies? (yes that's a real thing) There always The Mc University of course. Jeez save us from this endless stream of mediocrity.

Does it matter? Any discipline to degree level is surely better than no education? It means they are beyond O' & A' level. Media studies, if it means training in critically assessing what the media is telling us is surely entirely useful in the current left/right MSM/Non MSM debate. No?

Have you got a degree? What's your degree in?
je suis Charlie
Sales n marketing. Followed by two year course (evenings) business studies.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 08:57 PM) *
Does it matter? Any discipline to degree level is surely better than no education? It means they are beyond O' & A' level. Media studies, if it means training in critically assessing what the media is telling us is surely entirely useful in the current left/right MSM/Non MSM debate. No?

Have you got a degree? What's your degree in?

In my view University should be for the top 10 percent of students who' show academic prowess. The rest should get a job or an apprenticeship (And yes serious investment should be made in vocational apprenticeships). University is seen as some sort of "right of passage" now and the old poly's are all 'Universities". For a lot it's just a 3 or 4 year jolly where they do 5 hours a week, end up with a 2 2 and 50k of debt that they will never have a job well paid enough to pay back. Crock of sh1t.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 08:57 PM) *
Does it matter? Any discipline to degree level is surely better than no education? It means they are beyond O' & A' level. Media studies, if it means training in critically assessing what the media is telling us is surely entirely useful in the current left/right MSM/Non MSM debate. No?

Have you got a degree? What's your degree in?

Time travel and fermentation science. Yes.. You can..
je suis Charlie
Gender studies, shortest course in history, " right class, any idea how many genders there are?". "err, two sir?"
"Congratulations, collect your degree on the way out"
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 13 2019, 09:07 PM) *
In my view University should be for the top 10 percent of students who' show academic prowess. The rest should get a job or an apprenticeship (And yes serious investment should be made in vocational apprenticeships). University is seen as some sort of "right of passage" now and the old poly's are all 'Universities". For a lot it's just a 3 or 4 year jolly where they do 5 hours a week, end up with a 2 2 and 50k of debt that they will never have a job well paid enough to pay back. Crock of sh1t.

To an extent I agree. When I went, that's exactly how it was - 10% went. I think there should be more than 10% and I think for most, degrees should be vocational - teaching, law, nursing etc. Certainly if you've got to pay for it, it ought to earn its money.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 09:24 PM) *
To an extent I agree. When I went, that's exactly how it was - 10% went. I think there should be more than 10% and I think for most, degrees should be vocational - teaching, law, nursing etc. Certainly if you've got to pay for it, it ought to earn its money.

Correct and vocational degrees like you mention should be free, with a prerequisite that you do a certain amount of time in the case of nursing for example say in the NHS after. You see we can agree on something. And yes ten percent is probably a bit low. 15 to 20? Free degrees for vocational subjects would encourage people to do degrees that would benefit society. Pay for your media studies or sports science..
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 13 2019, 06:52 PM) *
What are you moaning about? You’re still here. tongue.gif


Second opinions are always welcome. dry.gif
je suis Charlie
Also interesting is Toyota's decision to build the new version of the world's best-selling car at Burnaston in Derbyshire, producing more than 130,000 cars a year - along with 130,000 engines (including the hybrids) at Deeside - and employing 3,000 people.

If you've missed it - and the BBC hasn't even mentioned the Corolla in over a month - it's because it's certainly not as interesting a news story as absolutely no job losses from Nissan choosing not to make a couple of thousand large off-roaders a year in Sunderland because it can't make the Renault diesel engines Euro6b compliant and the diesel market share is shrinking to the point of Nissan cutting diesel engines (like most other manufacturers) before the end of 2021, and making the petrol versions would require shipping the petrol engines from Japan to be mated to the cars in the UK when it would be cheaper to just make the RHD cars in Japan in the first place. I mean BECAUSE BREXIT. DEFINITELY BECAUSE BREXIT.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 13 2019, 11:41 PM) *
Also interesting is Toyota's decision to build the new version of the world's best-selling car at Burnaston in Derbyshire, producing more than 130,000 cars a year - along with 130,000 engines (including the hybrids) at Deeside - and employing 3,000 people.

If you've missed it - and the BBC hasn't even mentioned the Corolla in over a month - it's because it's certainly not as interesting a news story as absolutely no job losses from Nissan choosing not to make a couple of thousand large off-roaders a year in Sunderland because it can't make the Renault diesel engines Euro6b compliant and the diesel market share is shrinking to the point of Nissan cutting diesel engines (like most other manufacturers) before the end of 2021, and making the petrol versions would require shipping the petrol engines from Japan to be mated to the cars in the UK when it would be cheaper to just make the RHD cars in Japan in the first place. I mean BECAUSE BREXIT. DEFINITELY BECAUSE BREXIT.

I confess I wasn’t aware of that, however the decision was taken in 2017. No one with half a brain cell would have taken that decision now or in the last 12 months. I expect that like Nissan they were given assurances. The climate changed when it became clear that the EU would not capitulate on its principles and the loons started talking about no deal and WTO. I’m trying hard not to be disparaging about the members of the public that have picked this up and peddle the idea on phone ins and social media, but it is economic suicide and would deliver us back to the 70s.

newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 13 2019, 09:29 PM) *
Correct and vocational degrees like you mention should be free, with a prerequisite that you do a certain amount of time in the case of nursing for example say in the NHS after. You see we can agree on something. And yes ten percent is probably a bit low. 15 to 20? Free degrees for vocational subjects would encourage people to do degrees that would benefit society. Pay for your media studies or sports science..

Prince Charles is a big fan of free degrees I recall.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 14 2019, 06:11 AM) *
Prince Charles is a big fan of free degrees I recall.


There was a consensus at the time that rather hoped the next queen was going to be one Shelia Ferguson but I'm afraid we had to await till the next generation before diverse marriage became acceptable in royal circles. Shame really as I think she would have done an excellent job but in hindsight she probably made the right decision.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 14 2019, 06:09 AM) *
I confess I wasn’t aware of that, however the decision was taken in 2017. No one with half a brain cell would have taken that decision now or in the last 12 months. I expect that like Nissan they were given assurances. The climate changed when it became clear that the EU would not capitulate on its principles and the loons started talking about no deal and WTO. I’m trying hard not to be disparaging about the members of the public that have picked this up and peddle the idea on phone ins and social media, but it is economic suicide and would deliver us back to the 70s.

No, you weren't aware, because the only headlines the media are peddling are anti brexit. If Toyota aren't happy why don't they pull out like nissan did? Because it's got **** all to do with brexit. Oh and as expected, news brewing on both German AND eurozone economy.

"Germany narrowly avoided a recession in the fourth quarter, reporting only zero growth as foreign trade made little contribution to Europe’s largest economy.

The lackluster figure released Thursday by the state statistics agency followed a 0.2% fall in output during the preceding third quarter. Business spending on machinery and equipment as well as construction supported the economy in the fourth quarter and kept Germany from suffering two straight quarters of negative growth, one definition of a recession."

"Claus Vistesen, economist at Pantheon, says Germany’s economy was held back by weak net trade and sluggish consumers’ spending.

He fears that the eurozone growth figures, which will be updated at 10am, will be lowered from 0.2% to just 0.1% for the last quarter.

Just as bad as we feared, adding to our conviction that today’s second estimate quarter-on-quarter for the eurozone as a whole will be revised down, by 0.1pp, to 0.1%.

We don’t see numerical details in this report, but the statistical office provide hints, indicating that domestic demand, mainly investment in construction and machinery and equipment, and government spending supported the economy. By contrast, growth in consumers’ spending remained subdued, and net exports remained a severe drag on headline GDP growth."

All of a sudden it starts to look like this magical European powerhouse is running short of coal.
Strafin
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 14 2019, 06:11 AM) *
Prince Charles is a big fan of free degrees I recall.

Hes a fan of a free anything - what with getting given everything for free for his entire life. But maybe that's for another thread.
je suis Charlie
It was cold in Motown last night, Three degrees, Four Tops. 😀
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 14 2019, 01:46 PM) *
It was cold in Motown last night, Three degrees, Four Tops. 😀


Name dropping again I see. cool.gif
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 04:41 PM) *
Being at the heart of the largest most successful trading bloc on the planet doesn't swing it?

You don't say,
"EU BOMBSHELL: Economists claim 'eurozone is FAILING' for THIS reason
THE EU is not the force it once was and, according to credible forecasts, by 2050, it will account for less than a tenth of the world’s economy, two leading economists claimed in a book on the state of the bloc.". 🐒
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 14 2019, 06:21 PM) *
You don't say,
"EU BOMBSHELL: Economists claim 'eurozone is FAILING' for THIS reason
THE EU is not the force it once was and, according to credible forecasts, by 2050, it will account for less than a tenth of the world’s economy, two leading economists claimed in a book on the state of the bloc.". 🐒

Gonna be a basket case, Germany on the brink of recession, Italy in recession, French economy stagnating, Poland has a shrinking economy. Not looking good is it.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 14 2019, 07:09 PM) *
Gonna be a basket case, Germany on the brink of recession, Italy in recession, French economy stagnating, Poland has a shrinking economy. Not looking good is it.

It is for the UK if this rabble in parliament can extricate themselves from the trough of the EU expenses and the like.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 14 2019, 07:09 PM) *
Gonna be a basket case, Germany on the brink of recession, Italy in recession, French economy stagnating, Poland has a shrinking economy. Not looking good is it.


The result of letting clueless individuals run the shop. May be completely non pc to advocate unfettered entrepreneurism but it sure as **** beats state control. One does not have to be an accountant graduate to see where Europe is heading but they won't change until it's too late. Does that ring any bells? Viertes Reich anyone.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 14 2019, 06:09 AM) *
I confess I wasn’t aware of that, however the decision was taken in 2017. No one with half a brain cell would have taken that decision now or in the last 12 months. I expect that like Nissan they were given assurances. The climate changed when it became clear that the EU would not capitulate on its principles and the loons started talking about no deal and WTO. I’m trying hard not to be disparaging about the members of the public that have picked this up and peddle the idea on phone ins and social media, but it is economic suicide and would deliver us back to the 70s.

Toyota already has the Burnaston and Deeside plants. They're simply building the Corolla - the best-selling car in the world - here (along with the Auris and Avensis) and continuing to build the hybrid powertrains here. That safeguards 3,000 jobs.

But that doesn't make the news. Instead Nissan choosing not to build the X-Trail here having previously decided to do so, and Ford pulling out make the news, because they're bad Brexit stories. Except Nissan's X-Trail decision is a business decision - it makes/sells a handful of cars, it's phasing out diesel because it can't make diesel fit emissions regulations (thank the French and Germans cheating for that one) and it's simply less expensive to make the cars and the petrol engines together in Japan. No jobs are at risk in Sunderland, not that you'd know from the "NO X-TRAIL BECAUSE BREXIT" reporting.

Meanwhile Ford hasn't made a car in the UK since 2005, and Ford USA is sick to death of the deeply unprofitable European division - which is valued at -$2bn - and is restructuring the whole thing. I'm pretty sure that the closure of Saarlouis (Germany) and Bordeaux (France) aren't much to do with Brexit. Sorry, I mean they're definitely because of Brexit.


Do we need to mention the government getting Airbus to warn everyone about hard Brexit while it's struggling to sell its awful A380 (it's great, but very expensive to make and fly, and not very adaptable) and has now cancelled it entirely. Obviously the 3,500 jobs at risk across Europe are because of Brexit...
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 14 2019, 06:21 PM) *
You don't say,
"EU BOMBSHELL: Economists claim 'eurozone is FAILING' for THIS reason
THE EU is not the force it once was and, according to credible forecasts, by 2050, it will account for less than a tenth of the world’s economy, two leading economists claimed in a book on the state of the bloc.". 🐒

That may be more to do with the growth of emerging economies as anything if it transpires. It seems to me that people are desperate for the EU to collapse because it would make our population look less stupid when our own economy collapses.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 14 2019, 06:09 AM) *
I confess I wasn’t aware of that, however the decision was taken in 2017. No one with half a brain cell would have taken that decision now or in the last 12 months. I expect that like Nissan they were given assurances. The climate changed when it became clear that the EU would not capitulate on its principles and the loons started talking about no deal and WTO. I’m trying hard not to be disparaging about the members of the public that have picked this up and peddle the idea on phone ins and social media, but it is economic suicide and would deliver us back to the 70s.

We will never be back in the 70s. Thatcher saw to that. The days of Union's holding the Country to ransom are gone. More drivel from our resident remainiac...
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