Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Second referendum
Newbury Today Forum > Categories > Random Rants
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 12:24 PM) *
Ahem!
"Which doesn't mean Labour's shadow cabinet is yet foursquare behind it: there are probably ten of Jeremy Corbyn's most senior colleagues who, like him, have doubts about whether Labour should become the referendum party."
"Labour split over second referendum after Barry Gardiner claims 'we are not a Remain party'"
Then there's this,
"Exactly the same proportion of voters believe there should be a second referendum on Brexit as think the UK should leave the EU without a deal, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer.

The survey shows the country split down the middle, with 43% supporting a delay to Brexit in order to hold a second public vote and 43% believing the UK should simply quit without any agreement with Brussels."

And to round off for now as

"Jeremy Corbyn was warned by Labour party chairman Ian Lavery that he risked going down in history as the leader who split his party if he backed another referendum on Brexit, in an extraordinary outburst during a meeting of the shadow cabinet last week, according to senior party sources."

Looks a bit 'splittish' to me.

Nope. From memory the party is about 90% remain.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 12:40 PM) *
Nope. From memory the party is about 90% remain.

Not what the poles and pundits say. As for your memory, we're still waiting for that viral post. Forget much?
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 12:40 PM) *
Nope. From memory the party is about 90% remain.

Wrong again, 65% is closer to the mark.

Source .gov
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 11:46 AM) *
Labour are overwhelmingly in favour of a second referendum as a party. It isn’t split but obviously there are exceptions, notably Corbyn.

Err,
"Labour to order MPs not to back second Brexit referendum amendment"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/m...ntrol-of-brexit

Couldn't make this **** up, oh wait!
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 02:39 PM) *
Wrong again, 65% is closer to the mark.

Source .gov

Labour voters yes. Members 89%. Stop telling lies.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguard...ond-brexit-vote
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 12 2019, 03:09 PM) *
Err,
"Labour to order MPs not to back second Brexit referendum amendment"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/m...ntrol-of-brexit

Couldn't make this **** up, oh wait!

I think Labour are gambling on an election. If May falls (when), the commons maths won’t change so whoever wins is going to be in the same position. The deadlock can only be broken by an election or a referendum. Although May might decide to offer a referendum on her deal with Labour backing. But Corbyn is after power so I wouldn’t be surprised if he refused and gambled on offering a referendum in a GE. He’s guaranteed 48% of the electorate and Farage will **** the Tories.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 03:22 PM) *
I think Labour are gambling on an election. If May falls (when), the commons maths won’t change so whoever wins is going to be in the same position. The deadlock can only be broken by an election or a referendum. Although May might decide to offer a referendum on her deal with Labour backing. But Corbyn is after power so I wouldn’t be surprised if he refused and gambled on offering a referendum in a GE. He’s guaranteed 48% of the electorate and Farage will **** the Tories.

Wrong, Farage will be targeting the 35% of labour voters who voted leave and are now being denied. May managed to win last time and now with the yoof vote dwindling from old whiskers they may shoot themselves in the foot. A new pole shows the country evenly split between stay and no deal so it's going to be a close call. I think 'no deal' will edge it.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 03:37 PM) *
Wrong, Farage will be targeting the 35% of labour voters who voted leave and are now being denied. May managed to win last time and now with the yoof vote dwindling from old whiskers they may shoot themselves in the foot. A new pole shows the country evenly split between stay and no deal so it's going to be a close call. I think 'no deal' will edge it.

Another lie. Remain is clearly in the lead.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-...would-you-vote/
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 03:59 PM) *
Another lie. Remain is clearly in the lead.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-...would-you-vote/

Yeah, right, see the bit where it includes data from 2016? Try this

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-public-want-no-deal/

And if your going to call me a liar let's see you back up some of your claims. C'mon, Mr viral post.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 04:12 PM) *
Yeah, right, see the bit where it includes data from 2016? Try this

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-public-want-no-deal/

And if your going to call me a liar let's see you back up some of your claims. C'mon, Mr viral post.

Waits patiently; oh well, while we're here

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/br...n-a4108916.html
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 12 2019, 04:15 PM) *
Waits patiently; oh well, while we're here

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/br...n-a4108916.html

That’s just one poll. The link I posted is to all the polls. Well done on finding one though. Now give your head a wobble and look at all of the polls.

Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 04:21 PM) *
That’s just one poll. The link I posted is to all the polls. Well done on finding one though. Now give your head a wobble and look at all of the polls.

What with data from 2016? Very accurate, not. JSC's poll is interesting though.

Where's the link to this viral 😂 post?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 04:21 PM) *
That’s just one poll. The link I posted is to all the polls. Well done on finding one though. Now give your head a wobble and look at all of the polls.

Show me a poll with a decent sample (say 25000) that has data spread evenly through the demographic and evenly spread geographically (with weighting for the density of population) and that isn't being run by a polling firm with an "agenda" and I may believe you..think you may struggle though
🤣
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 01:40 PM) *
Nope. From memory the party is about 90% remain.

Even using your poll data there is only an 8% advantage to remain.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 12 2019, 04:31 PM) *
Even using your poll data there is only an 8% advantage to remain.

Don't confuse him with facts, he'll have another tantrum.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 12 2019, 04:31 PM) *
Even using your poll data there is only an 8% advantage to remain.

Is that not enough?
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 04:42 PM) *
Is that not enough?

Nope, well within the margins of safety, 8% is miniscule on the day.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 03:14 PM) *
Labour voters yes. Members 89%. Stop telling lies.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguard...ond-brexit-vote

It's voters that decide, at the polls, when they vote.
Turin Machine
Nigel's back in town! Can't wait for the sparks to fly.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 12 2019, 06:01 PM) *
Nigel's back in town! Can't wait for the sparks to fly.

He’s a disaster for leave. He’ll take some Labour voters but he’ll split the leave vote mostly.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 12 2019, 04:28 PM) *
Show me a poll with a decent sample (say 25000) that has data spread evenly through the demographic and evenly spread geographically (with weighting for the density of population) and that isn't being run by a polling firm with an "agenda" and I may believe you..think you may struggle though
🤣

What are you wibbling about?
newres
Brexit: Boris Johnson 'wrong on no-deal polling claim' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47913555
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 07:08 PM) *
What are you wibbling about?

You really don't understand anything . It's very sad. Poor deluded soul. Polls are useless. Why not see the "evidence" of ahem "Polls" prior to Brexit and the U.S. election..they mean Jack sh1t. 😂
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 07:08 PM) *
What are you wibbling about?

And do you know why???? It's liberal idiots that stop people having any "view" that is not politically correct. Then you end up with people voting how they actually feel in the ballot box but not discussing worries they may have..
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 12 2019, 07:53 PM) *
And do you know why???? It's liberal idiots that stop people having any "view" that is not politically correct. Then you end up with people voting how they actually feel in the ballot box but not discussing worries they may have..

Is it a rash “down below”? laugh.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 12 2019, 07:58 PM) *
Is it a rash “down below”? laugh.gif

I wouldn't know chap. Guess you must be an expert on STDs... what do you normally do? 🤣
Biker1
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 03:35 PM) *
Oh, and you spelt sovereignty wrongly as well

QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 12 2019, 03:35 PM) *
Not what the poles and pundits say. As for your memory, we're still waiting for that viral post. Forget much?

Oh and you spelt "polls" wrongly! tongue.gif (Unless you meant our Eastern European friends in which case it should be a capital "P"!)
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Apr 13 2019, 06:39 AM) *
Oh and you spelt "polls" wrongly! tongue.gif (Unless you meant our Eastern European friends in which case it should be a capital "P"!)

😂I'm a gonna claim newres. or, the phat phinger excuse. 🤣
Strafin
Some of those polls are based on very little to be fair. One of them showed that they had asked 2000 people, that's really not representative at all. The one that newres shared seems to be the most accurate with a larger section of our society getting asked. However do polls matter? The biggest poll we have had on this was in 2016 when the electorate has the opportunity to show their opinion but that was 3 years ago and the data can't be considered to be a reliable reflection anymore, although at the time it was.

So whats the solution? There's only one way to find out what the current electorate want and that is to have another nationwide opinion poll. Could be done with NI numbers and internet voting. It's just an opinion poll so doesn't have to have a campaign, but would give the house of commons a much better idea of what it should or should not be voting through.
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ Apr 15 2019, 08:53 AM) *
Some of those polls are based on very little to be fair. One of them showed that they had asked 2000 people, that's really not representative at all. The one that newres shared seems to be the most accurate with a larger section of our society getting asked. However do polls matter? The biggest poll we have had on this was in 2016 when the electorate has the opportunity to show their opinion but that was 3 years ago and the data can't be considered to be a reliable reflection anymore, although at the time it was.

So whats the solution? There's only one way to find out what the current electorate want and that is to have another nationwide opinion poll. Could be done with NI numbers and internet voting. It's just an opinion poll so doesn't have to have a campaign, but would give the house of commons a much better idea of what it should or should not be voting through.

Or they could ask a question on an indicative basis on the EU election ballot papers?

Whatever happens, we're stuck until there's a GE that delivers a decent majority or there's a referendum.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 15 2019, 09:17 AM) *
Or they could ask a question on an indicative basis on the EU election ballot papers?

Whatever happens, we're stuck until there's a GE that delivers a decent majority or there's a referendum.


A general election will only solve the problem if one party stands on a "leave" ticket and the other(s) on remain. The thought of repeating the process over the next 3 years will send the majority "mad", but I agree that a GE is preferable to another referendum.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 15 2019, 11:47 AM) *
A general election will only solve the problem if one party stands on a "leave" ticket and the other(s) on remain. The thought of repeating the process over the next 3 years will send the majority "mad", but I agree that a GE is preferable to another referendum.

I reckon in the event of a General Election, Labour would offer a vote on any deal. At the very least they would offer a customs union and single market. That alone would be a strong differentiation. Most remainers would settle for that as an acceptable compromise and it would end years of division that we're heading for with the Tories.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 15 2019, 01:54 PM) *
I reckon in the event of a General Election, Labour would offer a vote on any deal. At the very least they would offer a customs union and single market. That alone would be a strong differentiation. Most remainers would settle for that as an acceptable compromise and it would end years of division that we're heading for with the Tories.


Not entirely sure the difference between a customs union and fully fledged membership? Apart of course in that membership allows us to veto certain directives whereas a customs union ties us to those directives irrespective of our position. Seems very much a halfway compromise to me but no doubt others see it differently.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 15 2019, 03:17 PM) *
Not entirely sure the difference between a customs union and fully fledged membership? Apart of course in that membership allows us to veto certain directives whereas a customs union ties us to those directives irrespective of our position. Seems very much a halfway compromise to me but no doubt others see it differently.

It is a halfway compromise. We are out of the EU but with minimal economic consequences. People will say it prevents us negotiating our own trade deals, but leaving aside the relative power of 500 million compared to 50 million, the last three years have demonstrated the superior negotiating skills elsewhere in Europe. Once the argument “we’re British you know” failed, we were ******. laugh.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 15 2019, 05:44 PM) *
It is a halfway compromise. We are out of the EU but with minimal economic consequences. People will say it prevents us negotiating our own trade deals, but leaving aside the relative power of 500 million compared to 50 million, the last three years have demonstrated the superior negotiating skills elsewhere in Europe. Once the argument “we’re British you know” failed, we were ******. laugh.gif

I wouldn't say you were "British" first. You are a European first and British second...
Berkshirelad
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 15 2019, 07:47 PM) *
I wouldn't say you were "British" first. You are a European first and British second...


Utter tosh!

Welsh first; British second and I remember the days before the Chunnel when the Continent used be cut off from civilisation due to fog. biggrin.gif tongue.gif



TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Apr 17 2019, 07:34 PM) *
Utter tosh!

Welsh first; British second and I remember the days before the Chunnel when the Continent used be cut off from civilisation due to fog. biggrin.gif tongue.gif

Nah.. You have a picture of Juncker and Tusk on your bedroom ceiling... you've been rumbled...😂🤣
TallDarkAndHandsome
Interesting poll... not that I believe em!!!

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articl...I_24_april_2019

🤣🤣🤣🤣
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 28 2019, 07:28 PM) *
Interesting poll... not that I believe em!!!

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articl...I_24_april_2019

🤣🤣🤣🤣


Meaningless!!! We are all aware that whatever elections throw up now will be argued over by the few so waste of time putting your shoes on for. Good news for JC though because he can now argue that he should be given a chance to f**k the country up because the tories are taking to long to do so. angry.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 28 2019, 08:10 PM) *
Meaningless!!! We are all aware that whatever elections throw up now will be argued over by the few so waste of time putting your shoes on for. Good news for JC though because he can now argue that he should be given a chance to f**k the country up because the tories are taking to long to do so. angry.gif


If JC gets in I'm retiring... don't fancy working my a$$ off and paying 99 percent income tax.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 28 2019, 08:19 PM) *
If JC gets in I'm retiring... don't fancy working my a$$ off and paying 99 percent income tax.


Depends on who does the sums. If Ms Abbott has any input then start sharpening the bread knife. angry.gif
Strafin
A joke about Diane Abbot and maths! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ! that's brilliant and so original. You should go on "Have I got news for you"!
Turin Machine
QUOTE (Strafin @ Apr 29 2019, 01:12 PM) *
A joke about Diane Abbot and maths! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ! that's brilliant and so original. You should go on "Have I got news for you"!

At least it would inject some humour into it.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Apr 29 2019, 02:37 PM) *
At least it would inject some humour into it.

You think?
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Apr 29 2019, 04:20 PM) *
You think?

Well, we know you don't. Ever.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Apr 29 2019, 05:39 PM) *
Well, we know you don't. Ever.

I'm just surprised Sir Will hasn't been branded a far right extremist yet!😂
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 29 2019, 05:53 PM) *
I'm just surprised Sir Will hasn't been branded a far right extremist yet!😂


Allow me to enlighten. Once had afternoon tea with Enoch Powell.........Does that qualify me as a advocate of the 4th reich or just a misguided individual who read the wrong newspaper?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 29 2019, 06:48 PM) *
Allow me to enlighten. Once had afternoon tea with Enoch Powell.........Does that qualify me as a advocate of the 4th reich or just a misguided individual who read the wrong newspaper?


Oh dear g0d.... you make the rest of us look like lefties... rivers of blood... any comment Mr Newres??🤣
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Apr 29 2019, 06:57 PM) *
Oh dear g0d.... you make the rest of us look like lefties... rivers of blood... any comment Mr Newres??🤣


As at 22.00 hours... no. Obviously past his bedtime. cool.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Apr 29 2019, 10:01 PM) *
As at 22.00 hours... no. Obviously past his bedtime. cool.gif

It's OK Sir Will. Expect he is busy with the boys in blue. Expect a 5am wake up call.😂
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2020 Invision Power Services, Inc.