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newres
Another thing to think about if weíre going to delve into recent history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 10 2019, 06:45 AM) *
I provoke abuse by pointing out the nonsense you post. I get that. So even though Germany was destroyed at the end of WW2, the power behind the EU stems from then

It's not nonsense sonny, after the war Germany was rebuilt, primarily by us, we poured money into the country in a humanitarian effort because we didn't want it to be a perpetual basket case. It became the financial powerhouse of Europe with its Banks among the most powerful in the continent, dictating financial protocol for the entire industry. If you had listened in school to the history teacher instead of daydreaming you might of remembered. The forced slave aspect of the German war effort is a fact, something that snowflakes ignore these days because it doesn't suit them when whining about 'how evil Britain is'. If you want to have an intelligent conversation stop posting uninformed nonsense backed up with pointless and increasingly laughable 'evidence' and stop trying to be aggresive because all you're doing is making the rest of us laugh. Carry on and just get blocked, up to you really, no one else on here gives a **** either way.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 10 2019, 12:09 PM) *
It's not nonsense sonny, after the war Germany was rebuilt, primarily by us, we poured money into the country in a humanitarian effort because we didn't want it to be a perpetual basket case. It became the financial powerhouse of Europe with its Banks among the most powerful in the continent, dictating financial protocol for the entire industry. If you had listened in school to the history teacher instead of daydreaming you might of remembered. The forced slave aspect of the German war effort is a fact, something that snowflakes ignore these days because it doesn't suit them when whining about 'how evil Britain is'. If you want to have an intelligent conversation stop posting uninformed nonsense backed up with pointless and increasingly laughable 'evidence' and stop trying to be aggresive because all you're doing is making the rest of us laugh. Carry on and just get blocked, up to you really, no one else on here gives a **** either way.

Have.

I find it ironic that the right wing extremists on here pretend I'm defending the Nazis. Your point was that the EU was founded on profits from slavery. I pointed out that that was patent nonsense so now you're saying that the Allies underwrote the German economy post WW2 (correct this time) and accusing me of being wrong. Incoherent like much of what is said on here.

I'm really not bothered about being blocked by you at all. It must be very upsetting to be called out for lies. JSC is blocked because of his childish abuse.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 10 2019, 01:50 AM) *
And he's shown himself to be a racist as well.

And incredibly dense as well.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 10 2019, 12:43 PM) *
And incredibly dense as well.

Brainwashed I am afraid. Britain bad. Anywhere else good.
Andy1
[quote name='Turin Machine' date='Feb 10 2019, 12:09 PM' post='123393']
It's not nonsense sonny, after the war Germany was rebuilt, primarily by us.

Rubbish! ERP was a American initiative mainly funded by them.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 10 2019, 02:37 PM) *
Brainwashed I am afraid. Britain bad. Anywhere else good.

By whom?
newres
ERG member:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47189073
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 10 2019, 04:52 PM) *

Rich, coming from someone who refuses to condemn it on this forum.
Biker1
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 9 2019, 09:46 PM) *
Newres is the worst kind of liberal remoaner.

QUOTE (newres @ Feb 10 2019, 01:16 PM) *
I find it ironic that the right wing extremists on here

I take issue with both of these statements as they do not apply to either.
There are much worse "liberal remoaners" out there than newres, likewise I doubt if any on here are "Right wing extremists"
This is one of the main reasons why I rarely post on here nowadays.
Hysterical name calling rather than than sensible, adult debate.
However I am led to believe that the rhetoric on here is mild compared to that of "'social' media" to which I do not subscribe.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 11 2019, 09:07 AM) *
I take issue with both of these statements as they do not apply to either.
There are much worse "liberal remoaners" out there than newres, likewise I doubt if any on here are "Right wing extremists"
This is one of the main reasons why I rarely post on here nowadays.
Hysterical name calling rather than than sensible, adult debate.
However I am led to believe that the rhetoric on here is mild compared to that of "'social' media" to which I do not subscribe.


The voice of reason will, hopefully, resonate above the monosyllabic tripe that is an increasing norm in the debating world but I am not prepared to save oxygen awaiting. I agree that the mud slinging on here is probably mild compared to some but, like global warming, the loss of oratory skills will creep insidiously into our lives to the detriment of our ability to communicate and ultimately survive.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Feb 11 2019, 09:07 AM) *
I take issue with both of these statements as they do not apply to either.
There are much worse "liberal remoaners" out there than newres, likewise I doubt if any on here are "Right wing extremists"
This is one of the main reasons why I rarely post on here nowadays.
Hysterical name calling rather than than sensible, adult debate.
However I am led to believe that the rhetoric on here is mild compared to that of "'social' media" to which I do not subscribe.

I agree, myself and others have tried to have sensible discussion only to have it disrupted by trolls who think that banging a keyboard with their foreheads at every and all opportunity qualifies as debate, sparking off yet another bitchfest. It would be nice to be able to discuss issues of the day without the usual keyboard SJW'S trying to spoil it, AC tries to post stuff which often gets shouted down as do you. Let's all just try to get along for a change huh?.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 11 2019, 09:30 AM) *
The voice of reason will, hopefully, resonate above the monosyllabic tripe that is an increasing norm in the debating world but I am not prepared to save oxygen awaiting. I agree that the mud slinging on here is probably mild compared to some but, like global warming, the loss of oratory skills will creep insidiously into our lives to the detriment of our ability to communicate and ultimately survive.


Indeed. And there are far more important things in the world than the EU and Brexit. I for one can't wait for the 29th March to come and go so we can focus on something else.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 12:43 PM) *
Indeed. And there are far more important things in the world than the EU and Brexit. I for one can't wait for the 29th March to come and go so we can focus on something else.

I, quite frankly, am sick of the whole darn thing now.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 12:43 PM) *
Indeed. And there are far more important things in the world than the EU and Brexit. I for one can't wait for the 29th March to come and go so we can focus on something else.

Not if you work in the automotive industry.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 01:06 PM) *
Not if you work in the automotive industry.

And why's that? I mean why the auto industry in particular?
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 11 2019, 01:08 PM) *
And why's that? I mean why the auto industry in particular?

Automotive was just an example, but even the most optimistic Hard Brexit enthusiast predicts the decimation of the automotive industry post Brexit.

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1056568783400243201

Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 02:42 PM) *
Automotive was just an example, but even the most optimistic Hard Brexit enthusiast predicts the decimation of the automotive industry post Brexit.

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1056568783400243201

And just look at the reasoned, well thought out response.

"Look how happy he is, the fat, old white man....to make skilled,well paid people unemployed. Evil,evil man!"

Ahh , Twitter, gotta love it. laugh.gif
x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 02:42 PM) *
Automotive was just an example, but even the most optimistic Hard Brexit enthusiast predicts the decimation of the automotive industry post Brexit.

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1056568783400243201



The motor industry issues are nothing to do with Brexit. It is a global downturn for varying reasons.
Turin Machine
It's not simple but yes Brexit is dampening demand but also the uncertainty over diesel is also playing it's part with sales of diesel vehicles down 42%. Nissan is a shining example of this, the reasons behind them pulling planned production is partly down to this but also down to the fact that sales of the xtrail are down 24% Europe wide. The same story is true of other manufacturers as well. Project fear is alive and well.
Strafin
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 12:43 PM) *
Indeed. And there are far more important things in the world than the EU and Brexit. I for one can't wait for the 29th March to come and go so we can focus on something else.

Oh I don't imagine the 29th of March will be the end date for all this, not even if we actually leave. This is going to run and run...
Turin Machine
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 11 2019, 03:45 PM) *
Oh I don't imagine the 29th of March will be the end date for all this, not even if we actually leave. This is going to run and run...

Relax! Chill! Brexit is dead. At least in any meaningful sense anyway, whatever happens now no-one is going to be happy.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 11 2019, 03:35 PM) *
It's not simple but yes Brexit is dampening demand but also the uncertainty over diesel is also playing it's part with sales of diesel vehicles down 42%. Nissan is a shining example of this, the reasons behind them pulling planned production is partly down to this but also down to the fact that sales of the xtrail are down 24% Europe wide. The same story is true of other manufacturers as well. Project fear is alive and well.

The clip predates the diesel issues. Itís whatís predicted as a result of leaving the single market and the loss of frictionless trade. Farming is expected to be very badly hit too.
je suis Charlie
Prediction is not exactly a science, nobody knows what's going to happen yet but the doomsayers are out in force. Let's not forget TM was predicted to gain by a landslide, brexiteers were predicted to lose, Our Don was predicted to be runner up and WW1 was predicted to be over by Christmas.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 11 2019, 05:43 PM) *
Prediction is not exactly a science, nobody knows what's going to happen yet but the doomsayers are out in force. Let's not forget TM was predicted to gain by a landslide, brexiteers were predicted to lose, Our Don was predicted to be runner up and WW1 was predicted to be over by Christmas.


And Germany is going to go into recession. I guess newres and co will blame Brexit. And not Merkel. Or any EU policy.🤣
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 05:26 PM) *
The clip predates the diesel issues. Itís whatís predicted as a result of leaving the single market and the loss of frictionless trade. Farming is expected to be very badly hit too.

Point taken, although a prediction made over seven years ago probably doesn't carry that much weight.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 05:46 PM) *
And Germany is going to go into recession. I guess newres and co will blame Brexit. And not Merkel. Or any EU policy.🤣

The difference is that the one doing the prediction is the only economist that believes Brexit will be good for us and is the one trotted out by ERG. Imagine their embarrassment when the clip emerged. But actually forecasting is pretty accurate. They got the timing wrong with some things after the Brexit vote because the market reacted cautiously but if a no deal Brexit happens weíll feel the results for decades. Itís total insanity. Find a single economist besides Minford that sees anything other than a significant downturn.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 11 2019, 05:43 PM) *
Prediction is not exactly a science, nobody knows what's going to happen yet but the doomsayers are out in force. Let's not forget TM was predicted to gain by a landslide, brexiteers were predicted to lose, Our Don was predicted to be runner up and WW1 was predicted to be over by Christmas.

The BBC can't even predict the weather for tomorrow with any certainty!
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 05:54 PM) *
The difference is that the one doing the prediction is the only economist that believes Brexit will be good for us and is the one trotted out by ERG. Imagine their embarrassment when the clip emerged. But actually forecasting is pretty accurate. They got the timing wrong with some things after the Brexit vote because the market reacted cautiously but if a no deal Brexit happens weíll feel the results for decades. Itís total insanity. Find a single economist besides Minford that sees anything other than a significant downturn.

But Germany is going into recession, look at the economies of Spain, of Greece, even France is turning into a right mess! The EU is like all social engineering experiments doomed ultimately to fail.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 05:54 PM) *
The difference is that the one doing the prediction is the only economist that believes Brexit will be good for us and is the one trotted out by ERG. Imagine their embarrassment when the clip emerged. But actually forecasting is pretty accurate. They got the timing wrong with some things after the Brexit vote because the market reacted cautiously but if a no deal Brexit happens we’ll feel the results for decades. It’s total insanity. Find a single economist besides Minford that sees anything other than a significant downturn.

Ipsos MORI conducted an online survey of members of the Royal Economic Society and the Society of Business Economists on behalf of the Observer.
73% of respondents thought that real household incomes in the UK would be lower over the next 10 to 20 years, if the UK left the EU and the single market. This compares with 10% who thought that incomes would rise and 13% who thought that incomes would be broadly unaffected.
68% of respondents thought that the UK leaving the EU and the single market would increase the risk of the economy experiencing a serious negative shock. 22% thought it would make no difference and 8% thought it would reduce the risk.

That's out of 639 response, from economists. So just on this evidence alone he's not " the only economist " now is he.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 05:26 PM) *
The clip predates the diesel issues. Itís whatís predicted as a result of leaving the single market and the loss of frictionless trade. Farming is expected to be very badly hit too.


If brexit achieves one objective and that is the end of live animal exports then it will be worth every penny. With 60 million to feed I would imagine UK farmers will be one of the major benefactors of brexit.
SirWilliam
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47196387

Even private eye couldn't make this up. Funniest thing I have seen all week, (oops it's only Monday). tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Berkshirelad
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 10 2019, 12:09 PM) *
It's not nonsense sonny, after the war Germany was rebuilt, primarily by us, we poured money into the country in a humanitarian effort because we didn't want it to be a perpetual basket case.


Strangely, my recollection is more of the Marshall Plan and loads of US monies.

I will concede that Volkswagen grew out of the ashes of the war due to the foresight of a British Major at the time.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Feb 11 2019, 06:44 PM) *
Strangely, my recollection is more of the Marshall Plan and loads of US monies.

I will concede that Volkswagen grew out of the ashes of the war due to the foresight of a British Major at the time.

We joined the party in 1950, meanwhile the good ole USA had ripped through German assets and patents and secured approximately $10 billion worth, (not to mention the rocketry of Von Braun). Dis you know the BSA bantam was just a re badged NSU?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 11 2019, 05:59 PM) *
But Germany is going into recession, look at the economies of Spain, of Greece, even France is turning into a right mess! The EU is like all social engineering experiments doomed ultimately to fail.

The Germans and French are screwed. Fact. They have tried to absorb far to many countries (ring any bells) and far to many migrants in far to short a time period. The chickens are about to sit down and roost.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 11 2019, 05:54 PM) *
The difference is that the one doing the prediction is the only economist that believes Brexit will be good for us and is the one trotted out by ERG. Imagine their embarrassment when the clip emerged. But actually forecasting is pretty accurate. They got the timing wrong with some things after the Brexit vote because the market reacted cautiously but if a no deal Brexit happens weíll feel the results for decades. Itís total insanity. Find a single economist besides Minford that sees anything other than a significant downturn.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gilets...774276.html?amp

If even the Inde reports this you know the brown sticky stuff is hitting the fan..
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 07:46 PM) *
The Germans and French are screwed. Fact. They have tried to absorb far to many countries (ring any bells) and far to many migrants in far to short a time period. The chickens are about to sit down and roost.

When will they be screwed by? The German banks will collapse this year - will it be before or after that?
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Feb 11 2019, 10:31 PM) *
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/gilets...774276.html?amp

If even the Inde reports this you know the brown sticky stuff is hitting the fan..

We survived the poll tax riots and France will survive these protests. The right wing narrative is that Europe is screwed so we're doing the right thing in leaving. It's only about disparaging the rest of the EU and saying we're better off out. I never hear anything positive about us leaving. Even Brexit's biggest economic fan says the automotive industry and farming will collapse and Rees Mogg says we'll know it it worked in 50 years! It's beyond stupid!

je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 07:10 AM) *
We survived the poll tax riots and France will survive these protests. The right wing narrative is that Europe is screwed so we're doing the right thing in leaving. It's only about disparaging the rest of the EU and saying we're better off out. I never hear anything positive about us leaving. Even Brexit's biggest economic fan says the automotive industry and farming will collapse and Rees Mogg says we'll know it it worked in 50 years! It's beyond stupid!

You seem a tad confused, one of the surprising things to come out of this message is just how many leave voters were from traditional labour supporters. Not very right wing then. Farming will collapse? Really? You dont think that with 'imported food prices will rise' scare stories prevalent that British farmers might not fill the gap? Oh, and we don't actually have a British car Industry as such, we make cars for foreign car companies.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Feb 12 2019, 07:48 AM) *
You seem a tad confused, one of the surprising things to come out of this message is just how many leave voters were from traditional labour supporters. Not very right wing then. Farming will collapse? Really? You dont think that with 'imported food prices will rise' scare stories prevalent that British farmers might not fill the gap? Oh, and we don't actually have a British car Industry as such, we make cars for foreign car companies.

And it's doubly funny when you consider the biggest brexiteer is Jeremy Corbyn. Right wing? Don't think so. biggrin.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 07:10 AM) *
We survived the poll tax riots and France will survive these protests. The right wing narrative is that Europe is screwed so we're doing the right thing in leaving. It's only about disparaging the rest of the EU and saying we're better off out. I never hear anything positive about us leaving. Even Brexit's biggest economic fan says the automotive industry and farming will collapse and Rees Mogg says we'll know it it worked in 50 years! It's beyond stupid!

Are you on day release? I do hope your carer knows you post on here...

Strafin
Back to the old no argument/throw an insult plan then.

Out of interest, as I haven't got an answer from any other brexiteers, can someone give me a real and tangeable benefit of leaving the EU?
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 12 2019, 01:08 PM) *
Back to the old no argument/throw an insult plan then.

Out of interest, as I haven't got an answer from any other brexiteers, can someone give me a real and tangeable benefit of leaving the EU?

We take back control of our borders, our money and our laws!

But you're right. Between the lot of them on here they can't point to a single tangible benefit. The only one might be we'll get less immigrants and even that will only be true if the expected recession comes so they won't come here for jobs as there won't be any.

And whoever said it above is correct. The generally less well educated working class who are traditionally Labour supporters did tend towards voting leave.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 12 2019, 01:08 PM) *
Back to the old no argument/throw an insult plan then.

Out of interest, as I haven't got an answer from any other brexiteers, can someone give me a real and tangeable benefit of leaving the EU?

More Haddock! (Apparently).
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 01:16 PM) *
We take back control of our borders, our money and our laws!

But you're right. Between the lot of them on here they can't point to a single tangible benefit. The only one might be we'll get less immigrants and even that will only be true if the expected recession comes so they won't come here for jobs as there won't be any.

And whoever said it above is correct. The generally less well educated working class who are traditionally Labour supporters did tend towards voting leave.


Yeah right, the less well educated? Did you go round and check? Or is the same old bias?
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 12 2019, 01:20 PM) *
Yeah right, the less well educated? Did you go round and check? Or is the same old bias?

The data was well documented. I didn't make it up.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-...6-eu-referendum

Are you ever going to have something true and valid to say in this thread?
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 12 2019, 02:33 PM) *
The data was well documented. I didn't make it up.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-...6-eu-referendum

Are you ever going to have something true and valid to say in this thread?

You just can't stop being snide can you.

"older, working class, less educated and white voters opted to leave."

So you lump 'less educated' in with working class, older and white voters and miraculously every one becomes 'less educated' well done, how to mangle data.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 12 2019, 02:46 PM) *
You just can't stop being snide can you.

"older, working class, less educated and white voters opted to leave."

So you lump 'less educated' in with working class, older and white voters and miraculously every one becomes 'less educated' well done, how to mangle data.

Iím not the source of that quote. Itís the data. rolleyes.gif
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Feb 12 2019, 02:46 PM) *
You just can't stop being snide can you.

"older, working class, less educated and white voters opted to leave."

So you lump 'less educated' in with working class, older and white voters and miraculously every one becomes 'less educated' well done, how to mangle data.

Pointless even trying to engage with this one, doesn't bother to read anything, doesn't understand anything, all he's interested in is trying to prove he's a left wing intellectual, which he's not. I can imagine him pounding the keyboard with his forehead, throwing it down on the desk then strutting around the room mumbling "I haz skilz, deyz all wrong, dey dunt no nuffink, der intetweb must be broke". I'm sitting here in my office giggling softly at his idiocy, just waiting for the next gem to tumble onto the screen. It's probably going to be "all right wing nazi voters are thickos". No plot twists here my boys.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (Strafin @ Feb 12 2019, 01:08 PM) *
Back to the old no argument/throw an insult plan then.

Out of interest, as I haven't got an answer from any other brexiteers, can someone give me a real and tangeable benefit of leaving the EU?


No more than an equally compelling argument to remain a member. Our destiny is in our hands and it is up to us to get off our backsides and build a prosperous country for the benefit of it's inhabitants as opposed to chucking the petty cash into the european collection box.
I voted to join in the early 70s to the derision of the old boys who had fought 2 wars and knew a great deal more than most about german aspirations. If they were around today they would give a wry smile and say "told you so".
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