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TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 04:28 PM) *
You are such an outrageous pearl clutcher. Sinn Fein don’t threaten to don khaki and reach for a rifle. Get a grip man.

https://www.nme.com/news/music/noel-gallagh...iew-2509380/amp

😂😂😂
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 15 2019, 05:13 PM) *

Being able to play a guitar doesn’t make you a political genius. Look at Eric Clapton making millions out of playing Bob Marley yet supporting Enoch Powell. Personally I’d rather be guided by the experts.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 10:37 AM) *
Really?


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/on...liament-8302643

Even the IRA have higher standards than the Brexit MPs. They refuse to attend HofC and don't take their salaries.


You are confusing the word standards with the word policy. I'd argue that the IRA's policy here is unsophisticated and ineffective. Whereas Nigel Farage had made no secret of his policy and has proved to be very effective. Again like it or not, Farage is the real democrat here; debate is far better than violence. Who would you like standing in your constituency; candidates who would debate with you or ones who would kneecap you if you dared disagree?
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 06:56 PM) *
Being able to play a guitar doesn’t make you a political genius. Look at Eric Clapton making millions out of playing Bob Marley yet supporting Enoch Powell. Personally I’d rather be guided by the experts.


I didn't like the Powell approach but no one can deny his undoubted intelligence in the classical study of politics which must make him an expert? Or is the definition of an expert someone who simply gives apparent credence to someone's pre conceived ideas?
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 15 2019, 07:24 PM) *
I didn't like the Powell approach but no one can deny his undoubted intelligence in the classical study of politics which must make him an expert? Or is the definition of an expert someone who simply gives apparent credence to someone's pre conceived ideas?

Powell was a politician. Not an expert.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 07:46 PM) *
Powell was a politician. Not an expert.


So his career as the Emipre's youngest classics professor in the late 1930s doesn't count? Not quite sure how you'd define 'expert' but I suspect many MPs would feel badly insulted if it were held they couldn't be considered experts.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 07:46 PM) *
Powell was a politician. Not an expert.

I'm sending a theme. The only "experts" are those that agree with Newres. Anyone who disagrees is on ze "list".😂
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 15 2019, 08:00 PM) *
So his career as the Emipre's youngest classics professor in the late 1930s doesn't count? Not quite sure how you'd define 'expert' but I suspect many MPs would feel badly insulted if it were held they couldn't be considered experts.

Being a Classics professor does make you an expert in Classics. And?
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 09:07 PM) *
Being a Classics professor does make you an expert in Classics. And?


....and what do you think was the Oxbridge degree of choice for politicians and civil servants up until comparitively recently? Again, what is your definition of an expert?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 15 2019, 09:14 PM) *
....and what do you think was the Oxbridge degree of choice for politicians and civil servants up until comparitively recently? Again, what is your definition of an expert?

Your wasting your time. The only experts are the ones that agree with Newres. Everyone else is an idiot.
Turin Machine
Now this is what I call an 'expert';

"Noel Gallagher has hit out at Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a colourful interview where he despaired at the state of modern British politics.
The rock star, who previously said he would rather reform Oasis than see “lunatic” Jeremy Corbyn elected, now branded him a “f***ing student debater, f***ing captain fishy craggy old f***ing donkey, f*** off”. He also described shadow home secretary Diane Abbott as “the face of f***ing buffoonery”.
“They talk pipe-smoking communist nonsense, do you know what I mean? I think the role of any politician in the world is to be forward thinking, and modern, and contemporary - looking forward,” he told the Manchester Evening News.
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 15 2019, 09:14 PM) *
....and what do you think was the Oxbridge degree of choice for politicians and civil servants up until comparitively recently? Again, what is your definition of an expert?

Politicians aren’t generally experts at subjects. They use experts to advise. His degree in Classics doesn’t make him an expert in business, economics, health, social services, defence, law and order or immigration. You’re being a silly billy to quote another politician.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 15 2019, 10:36 PM) *
Now this is what I call an 'expert';

"Noel Gallagher has hit out at Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn in a colourful interview where he despaired at the state of modern British politics.
The rock star, who previously said he would rather reform Oasis than see “lunatic” Jeremy Corbyn elected, now branded him a “f***ing student debater, f***ing captain fishy craggy old f***ing donkey, f*** off”. He also described shadow home secretary Diane Abbott as “the face of f***ing buffoonery”.
“They talk pipe-smoking communist nonsense, do you know what I mean? I think the role of any politician in the world is to be forward thinking, and modern, and contemporary - looking forward,” he told the Manchester Evening News.

I don't like Noel Gallagher but I agree with the thrust of what he's saying. A stopped clock is right twice a day.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 06:37 AM) *
Politicians aren’t generally experts at subjects. They use experts to advise. His degree in Classics doesn’t make him an expert in business, economics, health, social services, defence, law and order or immigration. You’re being a silly billy to quote another politician.


Experts know a great deal about technical matters, which in simple terms is typified by the difference between an arts or science degree. Of course, politicians are not generalists, they'll take expert advice, but like other sensible people, will weigh that against contrary expert advice and other factors. Finally, again, I'd also argue that you insult politicians by saying they are aren't generally experts at subjects - one of the strengths of the Cimmons is having politicians who had (and often still follow) a career elsewhere. Ironically, your stance well illustrates the danger of career politicians who know no other field of endeavour.
newres
Slightly stating the obvious perhaps, but worth pointing out. It’s a complete impasse. There has to be a referendum or general election. BJ cannot deliver a new deal or no deal. No wonder he won’t make himself available.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...re_iOSApp_Other

My hope is that he’s going to get in and admit the only way forward is a second vote on the existing deal.
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 16 2019, 08:13 AM) *
Experts know a great deal about technical matters, which in simple terms is typified by the difference between an arts or science degree. Of course, politicians are not generalists, they'll take expert advice, but like other sensible people, will weigh that against contrary expert advice and other factors. Finally, again, I'd also argue that you insult politicians by saying they are aren't generally experts at subjects - one of the strengths of the Cimmons is having politicians who had (and often still follow) a career elsewhere. Ironically, your stance well illustrates the danger of career politicians who know no other field of endeavour.

Sorry, but that's incoherent.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:16 AM) *
Slightly stating the obvious perhaps, but worth pointing out. It’s a complete impasse. There has to be a referendum or general election. BJ cannot deliver a new deal or no deal. No wonder he won’t make himself available.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...re_iOSApp_Other

My hope is that he’s going to get in and admit the only way forward is a second vote on the existing deal.

The Guardian 😆😆😆
Biker1
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 10:37 AM) *
Even the IRA have higher standards than the Brexit MPs. They refuse to attend HofC and don't take their salaries.

One word........
Unbelievable!!!
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:25 AM) *
Sorry, but that's incoherent.


Rubbish. My nine year old nephew fully understands this. It's information which doesn't fit your view of the World so, of course, you don't comprehend. Ironic, proves a point about your attitude others have mentioned. laugh.gif
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jun 16 2019, 09:35 AM) *
Rubbish. My nine year old nephew fully understands this. It's information which doesn't fit your view of the World so, of course, you don't comprehend. Ironic, proves a point about your attitude others have mentioned. laugh.gif

It’s muddled. On the one hand you’re saying someone with a Classics MA is an expert in everything and then you’re saying they’re not.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 16 2019, 09:33 AM) *
The Guardian 😆😆😆

Well here’s your chance to critique the analysis. What’s wrong with it? I don’t expect an answer from you btw.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 09:40 AM) *
Well here’s your chance to critique the analysis. What’s wrong with it? I don’t expect an answer from you btw.

It's just, The Guardian 😆😆😆.

QUOTE (newres @ Jun 15 2019, 06:56 PM) *
Personally I’d rather be guided by the experts.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 09:39 AM) *
It’s muddled. On the one hand you’re saying someone with a Classics MA is an expert in everything and then you’re saying they’re not.


'A generalist doesn't need to be a subject matter expert but can be expert in the art of governance.'
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:25 AM) *
Sorry, but that's incoherent.

So, what was it that you couldn't understand, oh, wait, as you were. Newres 😂😂😂
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 16 2019, 09:33 AM) *
The Guardian 😆😆😆

Some long words. Sorry. Here's a few snippets of what Tory MPs are saying:

David Gauke, the justice secretary, said: “Boris is saying that he will definitely leave the EU by 31 October, but he is refusing to say how he will do this if parliament takes steps to stop a no-deal Brexit. Will he respond by suspending parliament? Will he seek a general election? This lack of clarity is helping him maintain a broad base of support for now but it won’t survive the autumn. This is why his position on Brexit needs to be tested thoroughly now.”

Alistair Burt, the former foreign office minister, said: “The risk of a serious confrontation in the party seems to be growing – the only way to avoid this is to get a deal. Jeremy Hunt is the best bet to open up the impasse, otherwise … we seem to be heading for a disastrous general election, with all the risks.”

Kenneth Clarke: “If some idiot was sailing into a no-deal Brexit I’d decide politics had finally gone mad and vote against it.” Clarke also said that if it came down to a choice between no deal and a second referendum, he would abandon his lifelong opposition to referendums and back a second public vote.


‘If there’s no other way you’ve got to bring the government down’

“If the choice eventually became no deal or a second referendum, then they’d try to win my support – I’d stop abstaining and I’d vote for it.”

Former universities minister Sam Gyimah said: “There is no sweet spot between what the [European Research Group] sees as the ideal resolution and what is right for the party and country. You either please them and imperil the government, country and party, or you pivot away from them and your own position is at risk. This is going to come to a head pretty quickly.

“For all the differences, this is Theresa May’s script. He will try to say he believes in the project and wants to deliver Brexit, but it is parliament that is standing in the way. This is what Theresa May attempted.”

The point is that there's no way forward in our democracy without a vote of some kind. Unless BJ is announces a second referendum he's finished. I'm guessing he wants power more than Brexit. I think he'll offer a referendum.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 04:15 PM) *
Some long words. Sorry. Here's a few snippets of what Tory MPs are saying:

David Gauke, the justice secretary, said: “Boris is saying that he will definitely leave the EU by 31 October, but he is refusing to say how he will do this if parliament takes steps to stop a no-deal Brexit. Will he respond by suspending parliament? Will he seek a general election? This lack of clarity is helping him maintain a broad base of support for now but it won’t survive the autumn. This is why his position on Brexit needs to be tested thoroughly now.”

Alistair Burt, the former foreign office minister, said: “The risk of a serious confrontation in the party seems to be growing – the only way to avoid this is to get a deal. Jeremy Hunt is the best bet to open up the impasse, otherwise … we seem to be heading for a disastrous general election, with all the risks.”

Kenneth Clarke: “If some idiot was sailing into a no-deal Brexit I’d decide politics had finally gone mad and vote against it.” Clarke also said that if it came down to a choice between no deal and a second referendum, he would abandon his lifelong opposition to referendums and back a second public vote.


‘If there’s no other way you’ve got to bring the government down’

“If the choice eventually became no deal or a second referendum, then they’d try to win my support – I’d stop abstaining and I’d vote for it.”

Former universities minister Sam Gyimah said: “There is no sweet spot between what the [European Research Group] sees as the ideal resolution and what is right for the party and country. You either please them and imperil the government, country and party, or you pivot away from them and your own position is at risk. This is going to come to a head pretty quickly.

“For all the differences, this is Theresa May’s script. He will try to say he believes in the project and wants to deliver Brexit, but it is parliament that is standing in the way. This is what Theresa May attempted.”

The point is that there's no way forward in our democracy without a vote of some kind. Unless BJ is announces a second referendum he's finished. I'm guessing he wants power more than Brexit. I think he'll offer a referendum.


He'll offer a GE and he will link up with Farage.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 16 2019, 04:28 PM) *
He'll offer a GE and he will link up with Farage.

Your naivety is sweet. He won’t split the Tory party. An electoral pact with Farage would do that.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 05:56 PM) *
Your naivety is sweet. He won’t split the Tory party. An electoral pact with Farage would do that.

We will see.
newres
Leader’s debate thoughts?

Raab slaughtered and made to look stupid. Javid is getting a bit boring playing the race card. Gove unnerved me the way he kept sniffing and eating his cheeks. Hunt a bit of a nobody. Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:00 PM) *
Leader’s debate thoughts?

Raab slaughtered and made to look stupid. Javid is getting a bit boring playing the race card. Gove unnerved me the way he kept sniffing and eating his cheeks. Hunt a bit of a nobody. Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.

Didn't watch it. C4 is shockingly biased.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:00 PM) *
Leader’s debate thoughts?

Raab slaughtered and made to look stupid. Javid is getting a bit boring playing the race card. Gove unnerved me the way he kept sniffing and eating his cheeks. Hunt a bit of a nobody. Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.

Tory C4 debate summary -

Gove - that cocaine was a mistake
Hunt - eyebrows, something about young people
Javid - let me tell more about my back story
Raab - I'll shut down parliament
Stewart - no more machismo, let me finish the question.

Boris won, because nobody stood out...
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 16 2019, 08:00 PM) *
Rory Stewart is the man. Honest and decent.


Absolutely 100% agree with you. He is the only one of the remaining candidates who is actually being realistic.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 16 2019, 11:39 PM) *
Tory C4 debate summary -

Gove - that cocaine was a mistake
Hunt - eyebrows, something about young people
Javid - let me tell more about my back story
Raab - I'll shut down parliament
Stewart - no more machismo, let me finish the question.

Boris won, because nobody stood out...

Note that the left leaning press are behaving in their usual vociferous manner criticising BJ for not appearing yet they they do not seem to grasp that this is a matter for the conservative party not the electorate at large. Johnson is the only one that seems to grasp this and therefore is way out in front of the field. He also appears to be the only candidate that doesn't give a flying pig about his past, after all we are electing a politician not a pope.



newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 17 2019, 10:15 AM) *
Note that the left leaning press are behaving in their usual vociferous manner criticising BJ for not appearing yet they they do not seem to grasp that this is a matter for the conservative party not the electorate at large. Johnson is the only one that seems to grasp this and therefore is way out in front of the field. He also appears to be the only candidate that doesn't give a flying pig about his past, after all we are electing a politician not a pope.

Absolutely! Why should anyone expect integrity any more?
je suis Charlie
Can't believe I'm doing this but;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2...on-rory-stewart

Quoting the guardian 😨
newres
I'm guessing the people on here would agree with this? Giving Sinn Fein a united Ireland, the disintegration of the EU and significant economic damage is a price worth paying for Brexit?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articl...-party-destroye
Turin Machine
I would imagine the breakup of the EU is meat and drink to brexiteers 😂.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 18 2019, 03:47 PM) *
I'm guessing the people on here would agree with this? Giving Sinn Fein a united Ireland, the disintegration of the EU and significant economic damage is a price worth paying for Brexit?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articl...-party-destroye

Oh no! House prices are crashing? The sky is falling? The sky is falling! Except;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/house-...ightmove-finds/
je suis Charlie
I'm getting ready to giggle if Boris doesn't get through.
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Jun 18 2019, 04:49 PM) *
Oh no! House prices are crashing? The sky is falling? The sky is falling! Except;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/house-...ightmove-finds/

Did you manage to read to the end?
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 18 2019, 05:41 PM) *
I'm getting ready to giggle if Boris doesn't get through.

If body language is relevant to anything Boris did not look comfortable in last nights BBC sop to public demand. Gove on the other hand sat centre stage and everything seemed to go through him. The question is however, "Could you vote for a man who goes jogging in his underpants"? laugh.gif I think Boris will make the last 2 but is he the party's choice?


je suis Charlie
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 19 2019, 09:23 AM) *
If body language is relevant to anything Boris did not look comfortable in last nights BBC sop to public demand. Gove on the other hand sat centre stage and everything seemed to go through him. The question is however, "Could you vote for a man who goes jogging in his underpants"? laugh.gif I think Boris will make the last 2 but is he the party's choice?

What we are looking at here is a very smart piece of legerdemain, Let Boris run and run, let the press and public have a field day slagging him off and recoiling in horror at the thought of him actually winning. Then at the last moment everyone gets behind Hunt or Gove and the country breathes a huge sigh of relief. Classic! cool.gif
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 19 2019, 04:04 PM) *
What we are looking at here is a very smart piece of legerdemain, Let Boris run and run, let the press and public have a field day slagging him off and recoiling in horror at the thought of him actually winning. Then at the last moment everyone gets behind Hunt or Gove and the country breathes a huge sigh of relief. Classic! cool.gif

None of them looked comfortable last night. Rory Stewart seemed agitated, Gove looked like his head disproportionate to his body and the rest either lied or showed complete ignorance of where we are.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 19 2019, 04:45 PM) *
None of them looked comfortable last night. Rory Stewart seemed agitated, Gove looked like his head disproportionate to his body and the rest either lied or showed complete ignorance of where we are.

Stewarts not up to the task, Gove has been compromised by his nose candy exploits. Gotta be Hunt. Raab might have done but he's too slippery, untrustworthy. My vote is going to Hunt.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 19 2019, 04:50 PM) *
Stewarts not up to the task, Gove has been compromised by his nose candy exploits. Gotta be Hunt. Raab might have done but he's too slippery, untrustworthy. My vote is going to Hunt.

I'm look looking forward to Halloween
.. the ultimate trick or treat..😂😂😂
Strafin
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Jun 19 2019, 04:50 PM) *
Stewarts not up to the task, Gove has been compromised by his nose candy exploits. Gotta be Hunt. Raab might have done but he's too slippery, untrustworthy. My vote is going to Hunt.

Are you actually a member with a vote? I don't know any others! So my Strafin opinion poll research currently shows 100% support for Hunt! Or is it just a turn of phrase?
newres
I'm of the opinion that if you want to remain, BJ is the best option.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jun 20 2019, 07:54 AM) *
Are you actually a member with a vote? I don't know any others! So my Strafin opinion poll research currently shows 100% support for Hunt! Or is it just a turn of phrase?

Yup, all paid up as well.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 20 2019, 10:26 AM) *
I'm of the opinion that if you want to remain, BJ is the best option.


I would be quite interested to hear the reasoning behind this statement if you wouldn't mind providing it.
newres
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 20 2019, 01:27 PM) *
I would be quite interested to hear the reasoning behind this statement if you wouldn't mind providing it.

Two possibilities.

He will go for a no deal, bring down the government and Labour/ Lib Dem alliance form the new government with second vote. Or,

He just might “come clean”. Admit there’s no better deal on offer, say no deal will be a disaster and revoke.

Option 1 more likely. One side of the Tory party will turn on him whichever way he goes.
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