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je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 04:53 PM) *
I think you're being ridiculous. As if any one in the current crisis would be advocating more money for breast enhancement.

Compare waiting times now to the end of the last Labour government and try to remember that it isn't just "other people" that suffer poor service and outcomes through a lack of resources.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/ja...ancer-treatment

No one's advocating more money for breast enlargement, however a great deal of the budget does go on nonsense like this, my own personal favourite would be a scaled down version of the NHS for accident and emergency and introduce health insurance. Works in France.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 03:44 PM) *
Is less doctors and nurses and police officers a good thing? Personally I think we should all be paying more tax.



No, I think that more doctors and nurses and police officers are a good thing. I would be more than happy to pay extra income tax to fund extra positions in all of these areas. However, I think that more office based civil servants at both central and local government level are a bad thing.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2019, 03:03 PM) *
Careful James, you'll go on the newres "list".😂


Let's be clear, I absolutely deplore Brexit in all its forms - soft, hard or otherwise. However, I don't think that Labour are the solution to the problem.
newres
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 22 2019, 05:27 PM) *
Let's be clear, I absolutely deplore Brexit in all its forms - soft, hard or otherwise. However, I don't think that Labour are the solution to the problem.

The EU was never the problem although it's blamed for everything. Many of the problems we're seeing are caused by insufficient funding.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 05:31 PM) *
The EU was never the problem although it's blamed for everything. Many of the problems we're seeing are caused by insufficient funding.


In this instance I was referencing the problem of Brexit but I completely agree that the neglect of the entire northern half of this country has contributed to an overwhelming feeling of dissatisfaction, which has been played on and encouraged by those who favour Brexit.
newres
I wonder whether the people of S****horpe are regretting the way they voted in the referendum? When you think, they were told that we’d be better off, we’d get the “easiest trade deal in history” and three years later 20,000 jobs gone.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 06:41 PM) *
I wonder whether the people of S****horpe are regretting the way they voted in the referendum? When you think, they were told that we’d be better off, we’d get the “easiest trade deal in history” and three years later 20,000 jobs gone.


Repeating the same inane argument over and over again that is actually complete b0llocks is the sign of Brexit Derangement Syndrome. I think you are ill. I do hope a remoaner throws a milk shake over Trump on his visit. Will be interesting to see the "response"...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/the-e...-british-steel/


newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2019, 07:05 PM) *
Repeating the same inane argument over and over again that is actually complete b0llocks is the sign of Brexit Derangement Syndrome. I think you are ill. I do hope a remoaner throws a milk shake over Trump on his visit. Will be interesting to see the "response"...
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/the-e...-british-steel/

Is The Spectator the magazine the BJ was the editor of?

Brexit is a full on disaster. One of the prospective BREXIT MEPs reckons short term (30 years) Brexit will have a negative impact on our economy.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.indy100....s-8919786%3famp
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 07:30 PM) *
Is The Spectator the magazine the BJ was the editor of?

Brexit is a full on disaster. One of the prospective BREXIT MEPs reckons short term (30 years) Brexit will have a negative impact on our economy.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.indy100....s-8919786%3famp


So what about British Steel? I'm waiting for you to explain why it is Brexit that has caused it's downfall...
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2019, 07:35 PM) *
So what about British Steel? I'm waiting for you to explain why it is Brexit that has caused it's downfall...

It’s lost orders because of the uncertainty surrounding Brexit. Didn’t you know that? Or that the crash in sterling as a direct result of the Brexit vote has impacted it. Sorry, I thought you followed the news.

TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 07:47 PM) *
It’s lost orders because of the uncertainty surrounding Brexit. Didn’t you know that? Or that the crash in sterling as a direct result of the Brexit vote has impacted it. Sorry, I thought you followed the news.

The crash in sterling would have made it's steel cheaper for export. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand basic economics.

Have you any evidence of these lost orders?
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2019, 07:51 PM) *
The crash in sterling would have made it's steel cheaper for export. But then I wouldn't expect you to understand basic economics.

Have you any evidence of these lost orders?

Are you serious? You aren’t aware that British Steel import the raw materials to make steel or that its contracts are long term and no one in Europe will commit to contracts because they don’t know what the tariffs will be? Fake news?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 09:20 PM) *
Are you serious? You aren’t aware that British Steel import the raw materials to make steel or that its contracts are long term and no one in Europe will commit to contracts because they don’t know what the tariffs will be? Fake news?

I am aware yes. It's a double edged sword. Imports are more expensive but they are more competitive due to the fall in Sterling. Unless you have a plan to eliminate China though, who are flooding the market with cheap steel and don't pay Carbon taxes then its all completely pointless... do you understand Thomas Malthus?
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 09:20 PM) *
Are you serious? You aren’t aware that British Steel import the raw materials to make steel or that its contracts are long term and no one in Europe will commit to contracts because they don’t know what the tariffs will be? Fake news?


Phew, so the US / China trade war, and carbon trading adjustments, is nothing to do with it then? Even the LibDems don't believe Brexit is the sole cause of every problem.
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 22 2019, 09:39 PM) *
Phew, so the US / China trade war, and carbon trading adjustments, is nothing to do with it then? Even the LibDems don't believe Brexit is the sole cause of every problem.

It’s the main cause. Some will continue to deny Brexit is damaging no matter what the damage, but even the Brexit leaders are talking if 30 years of pain.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ May 22 2019, 09:39 PM) *
Phew, so the US / China trade war, and carbon trading adjustments, is nothing to do with it then? Even the LibDems don't believe Brexit is the sole cause of every problem.

It's quite funny actually. As I have said before these #fbpe cultists blame everything that is wrong in the world on Brexit. And we havnt even left yet! Latest polls have the Nazi party at 38%. We have a lot of Nazis in the UK....🤣🤣🤣
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 22 2019, 10:00 PM) *
It’s the main cause. Some will continue to deny Brexit is damaging no matter what the damage, but even the Brexit leaders are talking if 30 years of pain.

It's not the main cause. Full stop. Finish. This particular argument you have picked is so full of holes it's just sad.... but you ignore world markets, supply and demand and EU carbon taxes. Just blame it on Brexit as it fits your ahem "narrative".
je suis Charlie
British steel has been a financial disaster waiting to happen for decades, just look at Port Talbot, same story only there Krupp stepped in to save it. Chinese steel is generally pretty poor, a lot is bought in from recycling plants and it's very variable in quality sometimes but boy is it cheap. UK steel is incredibly expensive when compared not just to Chinese steel but also steel from countries within the EU.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 22 2019, 10:08 PM) *
It's not the main cause. Full stop. Finish. This particular argument you have picked is so full of holes it's just sad.... but you ignore world markets, supply and demand and EU carbon taxes. Just blame it on Brexit as it fits your ahem "narrative".

So who should I believe? British Steel and Insolvency experts or couple of right wing nutters on a local forum?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...4821.html%3famp

These won’t be the last if we don’t stop this idiocy. Remember, over 60% of the country back Remain. I’ll bet there’s 20,000 people this morning wishing they could turn the clock back.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 23 2019, 06:07 AM) *
So who should I believe? British Steel and Insolvency experts or couple of right wing nutters on a local forum?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...4821.html%3famp

These won’t be the last if we don’t stop this idiocy. Remember, over 60% of the country back Remain. I’ll bet there’s 20,000 people this morning wishing they could turn the clock back.


Did you actually read the Independent article? Just saying....🤣🤣
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ May 23 2019, 06:07 AM) *
So who should I believe? British Steel and Insolvency experts or couple of right wing nutters on a local forum?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...4821.html%3famp

These won’t be the last if we don’t stop this idiocy. Remember, over 60% of the country back Remain. I’ll bet there’s 20,000 people this morning wishing they could turn the clock back.


As all those you mention are saying the same thing it's you who shouldn't be believed! laugh.gif
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 23 2019, 06:33 AM) *
Did you actually read the Independent article? Just saying....🤣🤣

This bit:
Why is British Steel in trouble?
It has been struggling with falling orders from European customers, which it says are linked to uncertainty around tariffs on steel after Brexit.

Or this?
Insolvency experts labelled British Steel’s demise as the “first heavyweight casualty of Brexit” and warned of a “tsunami effect” that would result in taxpayers footing a significant bill.

And just a reminder that even the Brexit party are saying 30 years of struggle ahead. Less than Rees Mogg who reckons 50. But carry on with your self delusion.

In my opinion the the final outcome could easily be Labour in control for the next 15 years, a divided country and no Brexit.

TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 23 2019, 07:39 AM) *
This bit:
Why is British Steel in trouble?
It has been struggling with falling orders from European customers, which it says are linked to uncertainty around tariffs on steel after Brexit.

Or this?
Insolvency experts labelled British Steel’s demise as the “first heavyweight casualty of Brexit” and warned of a “tsunami effect” that would result in taxpayers footing a significant bill.

And just a reminder that even the Brexit party are saying 30 years of struggle ahead. Less than Rees Mogg who reckons 50. But carry on with your self delusion.

In my opinion the the final outcome could easily be Labour in control for the next 15 years, a divided country and no Brexit.


In my opinion you talk out of your backside.
"Labour in control for 15 years"🤣🤣🤣

Oh by the way I don't mind paying a bit of extra tax to be an independent nation. 😁
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 23 2019, 09:24 AM) *
In my opinion you talk out of your backside.
"Labour in control for 15 years"🤣🤣🤣

Oh by the way I don't mind paying a bit of extra tax to be an independent nation. 😁

We are an independent nation. Fool of a Tooke!
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 23 2019, 06:07 AM) *
So who should I believe? British Steel and Insolvency experts or couple of right wing nutters on a local forum?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business...4821.html%3famp

These won’t be the last if we don’t stop this idiocy. Remember, over 60% of the country back Remain. I’ll bet there’s 20,000 people this morning wishing they could turn the clock back.

Err?
"But some pollsters have very different figures: after removing don’t knows, YouGov recently had only 37% of Labour voters wanting to remain and just 6% of Tories.

All this means any attempt to read the election as a proxy second referendum would be open to challenge."

(From the Grauniad).
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 23 2019, 10:59 AM) *
Err?
"But some pollsters have very different figures: after removing don’t knows, YouGov recently had only 37% of Labour voters wanting to remain and just 6% of Tories.

All this means any attempt to read the election as a proxy second referendum would be open to challenge."

(From the Grauniad).

What you've posted makes no sense. Got a link to the article?
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 23 2019, 12:28 PM) *
What you've posted makes no sense. Got a link to the article?

Certainly Mon Ami,
The bit you want is right at the bottom, just below where it says
"A YouGov survey for the European Council on Foreign Relations, published in the Guardian, put the figures at 37.5% for leave and 36.1% for remain."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/m...r-conservatives
James_Trinder
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 23 2019, 01:16 PM) *
Certainly Mon Ami,
The bit you want is right at the bottom, just below where it says
"A YouGov survey for the European Council on Foreign Relations, published in the Guardian, put the figures at 37.5% for leave and 36.1% for remain."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/m...r-conservatives


Actually the sentence that I prefer from that same article is the following:

The BBC’s election analysis suggests 75% of Labour voters and 50% of Conservatives are remainers.

We can all selectively publish the statistics that support our argument.

In reality the only way to establish the true figure is to hold a second referendum.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 23 2019, 01:58 PM) *
Actually the sentence that I prefer from that same article is the following:

The BBC’s election analysis suggests 75% of Labour voters and 50% of Conservatives are remainers.

We can all selectively publish the statistics that support our argument.

In reality the only way to establish the true figure is to hold a second referendum.

Hey, it's the guardian, supposedly the last bastion of all things left and remoan. What's a guy supposed to do? Trust the BBC? Anyhoo, it takes a minimum of 22 weeks to organise a referendum, we just ran out of time.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 23 2019, 01:58 PM) *
Actually the sentence that I prefer from that same article is the following:

The BBC’s election analysis suggests 75% of Labour voters and 50% of Conservatives are remainers.

We can all selectively publish the statistics that support our argument.

In reality the only way to establish the true figure is to hold a second referendum.

Hmm, choices, choices. The YouGov survey for the European Council on Foreign Relations.
Or
The BBC.
Hmm, I wonders.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 23 2019, 02:08 PM) *
Anyhoo, it takes a minimum of 22 weeks to organise a referendum, we just ran out of time.


Not if the EU agree to another extension.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 23 2019, 03:47 PM) *
Not if the EU agree to another extension.

That's a big if.
Strafin
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 23 2019, 10:59 AM) *
Err?
"But some pollsters have very different figures: after removing don’t knows, YouGov recently had only 37% of Labour voters wanting to remain and just 6% of Tories.

All this means any attempt to read the election as a proxy second referendum would be open to challenge."

(From the Grauniad).

That isn't true and the article even states at the end that the information you have posted was removed as it was "misinterpreted"

I don't know when the article was amended it could have been after you posted this to be fair.
newres
I’ve just seen a Corbyn video he’s put out advocating a second referendum on the deal. We’ve been heading for this for 18 months or more. It’s the only logical conclusion to this whole disgraceful mess. Why on earth didn’t we just do it last year? We’ve still got months or even a year or more to go but no Tory leader has the balls to just tell the truth. No one can deliver no deal.
Biker1
A second referendum will solve nothing and probably make the situation worse!
Strafin
It depends how it's played, but I think the damage is done. Whatever happens now, there is going to be 30 million or so really angry people!
SirWilliam
The obvious solution to all our woes is for scotland to sever any political ties with the Uk and ,being a fully paid up member of the greater european state, will have an open trade link with the continent. Any goods being traded by england and wales can now flow unimpeded across the north sea via the cheviots and "normality" will ensue. Unless of course they plan to build a wall as in hadrian/trump/garden mode. rolleyes.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ May 31 2019, 09:37 AM) *
The obvious solution to all our woes is for scotland to sever any political ties with the Uk and ,being a fully paid up member of the greater european state, will have an open trade link with the continent. Any goods being traded by england and wales can now flow unimpeded across the north sea via the cheviots and "normality" will ensue. Unless of course they plan to build a wall as in hadrian/trump/garden mode. rolleyes.gif


Good old Trump. Remoaners have plans to milkshake him next week. Be some dead remoaners I expect. Can't see his security detail acting in a restrained way.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (Strafin @ May 31 2019, 08:02 AM) *
It depends how it's played, but I think the damage is done. Whatever happens now, there is going to be 30 million or so really angry people!

Exactly! The longer it goes on the angrier one side will be. If we had simply just packed up the old caravan and slipped out gently into the soft night air we would already be on the road to recovery, both economic and social.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 31 2019, 12:33 PM) *
Exactly! The longer it goes on the angrier one side will be. If we had simply just packed up the old caravan and slipped out gently into the soft night air we would already be on the road to recovery, both economic and social.

Quite. We have a crisis of democracy. Far more dangerous than leaving. I know of many people that will never vote again if brexit is stopped. I know that will please some, but be very careful what you wish for. It wouldn't take much to set off a chain of events that will result in physical harm to both sides. Tensions and positions are so entrenched now it is a real worry. I have no doubt though that any remainers hurt will be hurt by the far right, but any brexiteers hurt will be by people with mental health issues.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2019, 12:49 PM) *
Quite. We have a crisis of democracy. Far more dangerous than leaving. I know of many people that will never vote again if brexit is stopped. I know that will please some, but be very careful what you wish for. It wouldn't take much to set off a chain of events that will result in physical harm to both sides. Tensions and positions are so entrenched now it is a real worry. I have no doubt though that any remainers hurt will be hurt by the far right, but any brexiteers hurt will be by people with mental health issues.



It's an interesting viewpoint but I don't really buy it in the same way that I didn't buy the spoiled votes argument at the recent local elections. You would be surprised about how many people are bored of Brexit these days, including our own local MP.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 31 2019, 01:15 PM) *
It's an interesting viewpoint but I don't really buy it in the same way that I didn't buy the spoiled votes argument at the recent local elections. You would be surprised about how many people are bored of Brexit these days, including our own local MP.

He just wants it to go away so he can carry on suckling at the EU CAP teat. He held clandestine remain rallies prior to the original referendum at local pubs (where the great unwashed were most definitely not welcome). So not a great example..
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2019, 11:31 AM) *
Good old Trump. Remoaners have plans to milkshake him next week. Be some dead remoaners I expect. Can't see his security detail acting in a restrained way.

Freedom shakes? Make BK great again!
Strafin
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2019, 11:31 AM) *
Good old Trump. Remoaners have plans to milkshake him next week. Be some dead remoaners I expect. Can't see his security detail acting in a restrained way.

How do you know? That's weird as he has nothing to do with Brexit. I also doubt anyone will be able to get near him. There's a lot of kudos in it though if someone does manage.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Strafin @ May 31 2019, 03:58 PM) *
How do you know? That's weird as he has nothing to do with Brexit. I also doubt anyone will be able to get near him. There's a lot of kudos in it though if someone does manage.

Kudos? I reckon bullets. Never met a remoaner yet that doesn't loathe Trump...funny that.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Strafin @ May 31 2019, 03:58 PM) *
How do you know? That's weird as he has nothing to do with Brexit. I also doubt anyone will be able to get near him. There's a lot of kudos in it though if someone does manage.

Really? Kudos for assault on a head of state, how peculiar.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2019, 04:04 PM) *
Kudos? I reckon bullets. Never met a remoaner yet that doesn't loathe Trump...funny that.

And show me a racist that didn’t vote leave.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 31 2019, 04:26 PM) *
And show me a racist that didn’t vote leave.

David Lammy.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 31 2019, 06:40 PM) *
David Lammy.

Where’s your evidence he’s a racist?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 31 2019, 07:59 PM) *
Where’s your evidence he’s a racist?

😂😂😂
Look it up..
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