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Strafin
Whatever happens now, there is going to be literally millions of people who are really pi55ed off. If pro brexit parties do get a massive amount of votes in the euros, I would take that as meaning that it is still "the will of the people" to leave. I have never advocated the will of the people as being a reason to do anything, but I believe public opinion has shifted, and that is part of the reason why I feel we should have a second (final) vote on it. However if the EU election demonstrates that public opinion hasn't changed, I don't think we need one.
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ May 13 2019, 09:39 AM) *
Whatever happens now, there is going to be literally millions of people who are really pi55ed off. If pro brexit parties do get a massive amount of votes in the euros, I would take that as meaning that it is still "the will of the people" to leave. I have never advocated the will of the people as being a reason to do anything, but I believe public opinion has shifted, and that is part of the reason why I feel we should have a second (final) vote on it. However if the EU election demonstrates that public opinion hasn't changed, I don't think we need one.

Would you take Farage getting 35% as evidence public opinion hasnít changed?
Strafin
I would take a combination of Brexit Party/UKIP/Conservatives getting 50% as a firm indicator.

Maybe if it were slightly less but propped up by labour

Or if Liberal Democrats/Change UK/greens get 50%, I would consider that proof that opinion has changed. If it isn't 50% for me it's not enough to stop campaigning for a final referendum.
newres
QUOTE (Strafin @ May 13 2019, 10:29 AM) *
I would take a combination of Brexit Party/UKIP/Conservatives getting 50% as a firm indicator.

Maybe if it were slightly less but propped up by labour

Or if Liberal Democrats/Change UK/greens get 50%, I would consider that proof that opinion has changed. If it isn't 50% for me it's not enough to stop campaigning for a final referendum.

If the turnout was 65% or more I could maybe agree. The problem is though that if itís a less than 50% turnout itís not reliable. The extremists will be out in force for this which is very likely to skew the results. Add in that Labour are officially a Brexit party and there are an awful lot of Torres that are remainers. If the reports are to believed, all of the Tory Brexiteers will be voting Farage so thereís a good chance that remainers make up a good proportion of whatís left of their vote. A referendum is the only way to see if the polls are correct.

James_Trinder
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 07:31 AM) *
Is Garage mates with Stormzy? 😂


On the topic of Nigel Farage/garages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8f6GDXooGs
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 07:31 AM) *
Is Garage mates with Stormzy? 😂

Doubtful. wink.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abEa3-rx6MQ
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 02:18 PM) *

Wow! I mean wow! A three year old clip, had to dig that hard huh? #remainersadboy.
Turin Machine
Something a bit more up to date (and relevant).

https://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/brexit/nig...neral-election/
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 13 2019, 02:46 PM) *
Something a bit more up to date (and relevant).

https://www.lbc.co.uk/hot-topics/brexit/nig...neral-election/

7th time lucky?
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 13 2019, 02:44 PM) *
Wow! I mean wow! A three year old clip, had to dig that hard huh? #remainersadboy.

If I wanted to be up to date I'd mention the two "party" founders forced to resign for racism. rolleyes.gif
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 03:41 PM) *
If I wanted to be up to date I'd mention the two "party" founders forced to resign for racism. rolleyes.gif

And the labour party members forced to resign for anti semitism. In any case, what's the actions of others to do with NF?
newres
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 13 2019, 05:01 PM) *
And the labour party members forced to resign for anti semitism. In any case, what's the actions of others to do with NF?

Three founders and two of them guilty of racist statements and the third was unaware of and has different views? Farage is a racist as evidenced by his poster and his public statements about Romanians.

Did you watch the whole of the Andrew Marr interview? Farage was made to look an idiot and a liar.

TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 06:42 PM) *
Three founders and two of them guilty of racist statements and the third was unaware of and has different views? Farage is a racist as evidenced by his poster and his public statements about Romanians.

Did you watch the whole of the Andrew Marr interview? Farage was made to look an idiot and a liar.

Marr looked like a hero to remainers and a d1ckhead to brexiteers...that's whey we are.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 06:42 PM) *
Three founders and two of them guilty of racist statements and the third was unaware of and has different views? Farage is a racist as evidenced by his poster and his public statements about Romanians.

Did you watch the whole of the Andrew Marr interview? Farage was made to look an idiot and a liar.


What's that Skip? newres is down at the docks and hes talking ***** again?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 13 2019, 07:32 PM) *
What's that Skip? newres is down at the docks and hes talking ***** again?

I think he spends all his time "In the barrell" for his remoaner mates...😂
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 07:21 PM) *
Marr looked like a hero to remainers and a d1ckhead to brexiteers...that's whey we are.

Marr didnít come across as a hero at all. I think youíll find that going forward all interviewers will be calling out Farageís lies. The media have realised that part of balance is challenging things that are demonstrably lies and not giving the lies equal coverage.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 08:22 PM) *
Marr didnít come across as a hero at all. I think youíll find that going forward all interviewers will be calling out Farageís lies. The media have realised that part of balance is challenging things that are demonstrably lies and not giving the lies equal coverage.

Yet when remainers say stay and reform.. and you ask them how...you never get an answer...they can't answer. Works both ways chap. If we stay how are things going to change? Not seen a single remainers explain.. apart from saying we are better in than out.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 08:30 PM) *
Yet when remainers say stay and reform.. and you ask them how...you never get an answer...they can't answer. Works both ways chap. If we stay how are things going to change? Not seen a single remainers explain.. apart from saying we are better in than out.

I never voted for reform. No one would be voting for reform in a second referendum. Iíve no idea what youíre talking about.

The EU is like any entity - evolving. But we have an opt out and veto on anything we donít like.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 08:50 PM) *
I never voted for reform. No one would be voting for reform in a second referendum. Iíve no idea what youíre talking about.

The EU is like any entity - evolving. But we have an opt out and veto on anything we donít like.


Not what the remainers politicians are saying...reform? You don't agree with Lammy then?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLammy/statu...511074046136326
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 06:42 PM) *
Three founders and two of them guilty of racist statements and the third was unaware of and has different views? Farage is a racist as evidenced by his poster and his public statements about Romanians.

Did you watch the whole of the Andrew Marr interview? Farage was made to look an idiot and a liar.

By the way... this is Marr...guess his hand "slipped"....#BBC enough said...
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 09:11 PM) *
Not what the remainers politicians are saying...reform? You don't agree with Lammy then?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLammy/statu...511074046136326

Canít see it on my iPad, but nothing is perfect and all institutions evolve. I do think if we remain there will be some changes although I canít see it altering fundamentally. Thereís no way the governments would give MEPs more power than to yay or nay proposals put by the governments.

The whole thing is daft. Weíre at the heart of the EU and the idea we arenít independent is ridiculous. Thereís far more important things to be concerned with. Would you trust Farage with the NHS or gun laws or our relationship with Russia? If you answer yes to those then youíre crazy.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 13 2019, 09:45 PM) *
By the way... this is Marr...guess his hand "slipped"....#BBC enough said...

Ad hominem.
je suis Charlie
Nigel is, quite simply an unknown, almost a force of nature, if he didn't exist we would need to invent him. Like Our Don he simply ploughs on sweeping all before him. He doesn't play by the Westminster playbook, and just like Don, the people will vote for him even though they don't think they should. He's got both parties quaking in their patent leather boots at the moment. I predict a solid 40% for him next week. It's going to be funny, watch the show, any bets on who crumbles first and opens the door for him? May or Beardy? And oh yes, had a great time last weekend!
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 14 2019, 12:23 AM) *
Nigel is, quite simply an unknown, almost a force of nature, if he didn't exist we would need to invent him. Like Our Don he simply ploughs on sweeping all before him. He doesn't play by the Westminster playbook, and just like Don, the people will vote for him even though they don't think they should. He's got both parties quaking in their patent leather boots at the moment. I predict a solid 40% for him next week. It's going to be funny, watch the show, any bets on who crumbles first and opens the door for him? May or Beardy? And oh yes, had a great time last weekend!

It will make no difference to the maths in parliament so no one will open the door to him. Labour have little to fear from Farage. Itís the Libdems that are taking their votes due to the referendum lack of clarity and heíll just split the Tory vote in a GE ensuring a Labour victory. The very best the country can hope for is a Lib Dem/Labour alliance.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 06:18 AM) *
It will make no difference to the maths in parliament so no one will open the door to him. Labour have little to fear from Farage. Itís the Libdems that are taking their votes due to the referendum lack of clarity and heíll just split the Tory vote in a GE ensuring a Labour victory. The very best the country can hope for is a Lib Dem/Labour alliance.


😂😂😂😂 Comedy gold.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 14 2019, 07:22 AM) *
😂😂😂😂 Comedy gold.

You'll need to explain that. I know you think that because the north voted leave it means northerners won't vote Labour, but analysis shows that to not be correct. 80% of Labour voters voted remain. The greatest threat is Labour voters deserting to the Lib Dems.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 08:56 AM) *
You'll need to explain that. I know you think that because the north voted leave it means northerners won't vote Labour, but analysis shows that to not be correct. 80% of Labour voters voted remain. The greatest threat is Labour voters deserting to the Lib Dems.

Show this 'analysis'. Mine shows the figure at 65% not 80%. Big difference.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 14 2019, 09:09 AM) *
Show this 'analysis'. Mine shows the figure at 65% not 80%. Big difference.

Fair criticism. The 80% figure was quoted on LBC yesterday by a Labour politician and I may have misheard or misrepresented it unintentionally as "voted" as opposed to "support", but I can't find a reference to the figure on line. However polling indicates that 73% of Labour voters think Brexit is a mistake.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...ond-brexit-vote

"The findings ďincrease the pressure on Labourís leader to get off the fenceĒ, Bale said. ďIf Jeremy Corbyn genuinely believes, as he has repeatedly claimed, that the Labour partyís policy should reflect the wishes of its members rather than just its leaders, then he arguably has a funny way of showing it Ė at least when it comes to Brexit,Ē he said.

There was, he noted, some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the partyís supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 10:29 AM) *
Fair criticism. The 80% figure was quoted on LBC yesterday by a Labour politician and I may have misheard or misrepresented it unintentionally as "voted" as opposed to "support", but I can't find a reference to the figure on line. However polling indicates that 73% of Labour voters think Brexit is a mistake.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...ond-brexit-vote

"The findings ďincrease the pressure on Labourís leader to get off the fenceĒ, Bale said. ďIf Jeremy Corbyn genuinely believes, as he has repeatedly claimed, that the Labour partyís policy should reflect the wishes of its members rather than just its leaders, then he arguably has a funny way of showing it Ė at least when it comes to Brexit,Ē he said.

There was, he noted, some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the partyís supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

Fair enough.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 10:29 AM) *
Fair criticism. The 80% figure was quoted on LBC yesterday by a Labour politician and I may have misheard or misrepresented it unintentionally as "voted" as opposed to "support", but I can't find a reference to the figure on line. However polling indicates that 73% of Labour voters think Brexit is a mistake.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...ond-brexit-vote

"The findings “increase the pressure on Labour’s leader to get off the fence”, Bale said. “If Jeremy Corbyn genuinely believes, as he has repeatedly claimed, that the Labour party’s policy should reflect the wishes of its members rather than just its leaders, then he arguably has a funny way of showing it – at least when it comes to Brexit,” he said.

There was, he noted, some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the party’s supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

Criticizes people who quote the Mail, then quotes from the Groaniad. ��
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 10:29 AM) *
Fair criticism. The 80% figure was quoted on LBC yesterday by a Labour politician and I may have misheard or misrepresented it unintentionally as "voted" as opposed to "support", but I can't find a reference to the figure on line. However polling indicates that 73% of Labour voters think Brexit is a mistake.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/j...ond-brexit-vote

"The findings ďincrease the pressure on Labourís leader to get off the fenceĒ, Bale said. ďIf Jeremy Corbyn genuinely believes, as he has repeatedly claimed, that the Labour partyís policy should reflect the wishes of its members rather than just its leaders, then he arguably has a funny way of showing it Ė at least when it comes to Brexit,Ē he said.

There was, he noted, some difference between the views of Labour voters and members. While a parallel poll of 1,675 voters found 73% of the partyís supporters believed the Brexit decision was a mistake, for members that rises to 89%."

Because the Express (good, reliable, centrist paper😎) has a poll reporting 86% of people think Farage is a good leader. Papers n polls huh. 🤔
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 14 2019, 04:38 PM) *
Because the Express (good, reliable, centrist paper😎) has a poll reporting 86% of people think Farage is a good leader. Papers n polls huh. 🤔

Of course The Guardian are merely reporting the poll. They aren't behind it.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 04:54 PM) *
Of course The Guardian are merely reporting the poll. They aren't behind it.

Believe me when I say, the guardian is behind EVERYTHING!
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 13 2019, 08:50 PM) *
I never voted for reform. No one would be voting for reform in a second referendum. Iíve no idea what youíre talking about.

The EU is like any entity - evolving. But we have an opt out and veto on anything we donít like.

Oh RLY?
"EU PLOT: Verhofstadt admits plan to scrap veto and FORCE EU project on member states"

Dodge that!

Express.co.uk: EU PLOT: Verhofstadt admits plan to scrap veto and FORCE EU project on member states.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/112685...n-treaty-latest

newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 14 2019, 08:24 PM) *
Oh RLY?
"EU PLOT: Verhofstadt admits plan to scrap veto and FORCE EU project on member states"

Dodge that!

Express.co.uk: EU PLOT: Verhofstadt admits plan to scrap veto and FORCE EU project on member states.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/112685...n-treaty-latest

Express.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 14 2019, 09:39 PM) *
Express.

May well have been. But it was Verhoftwat talking. Was it not? He wants to scrap the veto and spend 13 Billion on an EU Army... and you think Garage 😂 is a problem... he's an amateur compared to the EU cartel...they is proper #gangster
je suis Charlie
Well, no second referendum. It's now certainly the case that article 50 will be rescinded. Which for me personally will be a good thing, but will result in protest and dissent and I think it's a very damaging scenario for democracy in the UK. The Tories will certainly lose the next election, Labour will come in and bankrupt the nation and the far right will gain traction here as it is across Europe. So, not a happy scene overall. I would suggest that if we ever have another referendum on anything we change the law to make the result legally binding because this has been a farce.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 15 2019, 11:08 AM) *
Well, no second referendum. It's now certainly the case that article 50 will be rescinded. Which for me personally will be a good thing, but will result in protest and dissent and I think it's a very damaging scenario for democracy in the UK. The Tories will certainly lose the next election, Labour will come in and bankrupt the nation and the far right will gain traction here as it is across Europe. So, not a happy scene overall. I would suggest that if we ever have another referendum on anything we change the law to make the result legally binding because this has been a farce.

Did you decide this? First Iíve heard.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 12:08 PM) *
Did you decide this? First Iíve heard.

They have a choice, no deal or rescind. Which one do you think they'll choose?
James_Trinder
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 15 2019, 12:40 PM) *
They have a choice, no deal or rescind. Which one do you think they'll choose?


It depends on how well the Brexit Party get on next week in the European elections. If they do as well as everybody is expecting them to then there will be additional pressure to go down the no deal route.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ May 15 2019, 12:40 PM) *
They have a choice, no deal or rescind. Which one do you think they'll choose?

Where have you read this?
newres
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ May 15 2019, 01:24 PM) *
It depends on how well the Brexit Party get on next week in the European elections. If they do as well as everybody is expecting them to then there will be additional pressure to go down the no deal route.

The Brexit party will argue that but even if they get 35% I donít think the government should be swayed. The only way to find out what people want is a second referendum now we know what weíre facing in terms of deal / no deal.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 01:30 PM) *
The Brexit party will argue that but even if they get 35% I donít think the government should be swayed. The only way to find out what people want is a second referendum now we know what weíre facing in terms of deal / no deal.


As you are probably aware by now, I couldn't agree with you more. I was just pointing out what I think will actually happen in the event of the Brexit Party getting a large proportion of the vote rather than what I would prefer to happen.
Turin Machine
QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 01:30 PM) *
The Brexit party will argue that but even if they get 35% I donít think the government should be swayed. The only way to find out what people want is a second referendum now we know what weíre facing in terms of deal / no deal.

Never going to happen, mid twenties is my bet.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ May 15 2019, 03:19 PM) *
Never going to happen, mid twenties is my bet.

37 percent is my bet...
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 15 2019, 07:13 PM) *
37 percent is my bet...

I reckon youíre nearer and I think itís probably fair to say the majority of them want no deal.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 08:00 PM) *
I reckon youíre nearer and I think itís probably fair to say the majority of them want no deal.

Will certainly be interesting to see. I think it will be high turnout which should give a good indication of current public feeling (polls mean nothing as a lot of people don't tell the truth). If remain parties garner over 50 percent of the vote it would indicate a 2nd vote is more likely. If they don't it should be put to bed. One way or another, whether it be in or out, we need to just get on with it.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ May 15 2019, 08:20 PM) *
Will certainly be interesting to see. I think it will be high turnout which should give a good indication of current public feeling (polls mean nothing as a lot of people don't tell the truth). If remain parties garner over 50 percent of the vote it would indicate a 2nd vote is more likely. If they don't it should be put to bed. One way or another, whether it be in or out, we need to just get on with it.

So would you call Tories remain or leave? I reckon all the Tory leave voters will vote Brex****.
newres
And Labour voters would definitely need to be considered remain.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ May 15 2019, 08:52 PM) *
And Labour voters would definitely need to be considered remain.

Some people will have voted Tory or Labour all their life and will continue to do so whether they be remain or leave. The last EU election turnout was 34%.. what's your guess? I am going for 57%...
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