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Berkshirelad
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 23 2019, 01:04 PM) *
Andorra doesn't find it a problem.


Nor Monaco
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Mar 23 2019, 12:38 PM) *
The 'Irish border' point is a sub issue. If Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland believe that they don't want a formal customs border, then again, there is a simple choice for the Northern province - join politically with Southern Ireland. Scotland as a 'province' voted to remain in the referendum, but has to accept the will of the majority in the other provinces of the UK.

However if the UK Government for whatever reason believes having a hard border is a showstopper, then they will not choose to leave without the deal. Nonetheless, that sub decision hasn't yet been taken.

Frankly, like many others, I can't see what's wrong with a formal border - Switzerland manages pretty well.

Because a formal border could result in the resumption of "The Troubles". A hard border would be a betrayal of the republican population and of an international treaty. I can't believe you are either so ignorant or obtuse.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 23 2019, 04:42 PM) *
Because a formal border could result in the resumption of "The Troubles". A hard border would be a betrayal of the republican population and of an international treaty. I can't believe you are either so ignorant or obtuse.


Those are ungrounded assumptions. Please try to resist making unjustified personal remarks which just serve to demean you and any counter opinion you might hold.
Berkshirelad
And just to add to all these 'hard border' confrontations:-

1) the UK (inc NI) and Eire have the Common Travel Agreement (CTA) which long predates the EU;
2) the NI Peace Process (aka the Good Friday Agreement) requires that Stormont be a party to any changes to the border, etc. Problem is, Stormont isn't sitting since being dissolved due to Sinn Fein's sulking.
Biker1
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Mar 23 2019, 07:02 PM) *
Please try to resist making unjustified personal remarks which just serve to demean you and any counter opinion you might hold.

Good luck with that.
Others have tried to no avail!
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Mar 24 2019, 08:02 AM) *
Good luck with that.
Others have tried to no avail!

Newres is more intelligent than you.
His views only matter.
You should know that by now.🤣
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 24 2019, 08:27 AM) *
Newres is more intelligent than you.
His views only matter.
You should know that by now.🤣

To be fair, the comment actually was either obtuse or ignorant and stating as much is not insulting. Snowflakes everywhere!
Andy1
Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Andy1 @ Mar 24 2019, 11:44 AM) *
Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?

Article 50 will be revoked without a vote and millions of people will be so disenfranchised that democracy itself will be dead. I also say this again. This will set a precedent. If Corbyn wins a GE and the economists and "intelligent" people say it will be a disaster then he should never be allowed near No. 10. What's good for the goose is good for the gander....
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 24 2019, 01:22 PM) *
Article 50 will be revoked without a vote and millions of people will be so disenfranchised that democracy itself will be dead. I also say this again. This will set a precedent. If Corbyn wins a GE and the economists and "intelligent" people say it will be a disaster then he should never be allowed near No. 10. What's good for the goose is good for the gander....

We had some politico on TV this morning basically saying that they have Britain's best interests at heart and the the issue was too large and two complex to allow the electorate to decide. Simpering, condescending ****. They are making sure we never trust another politician ever again. Politics is dying in this country.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (Andy1 @ Mar 24 2019, 11:44 AM) *
Regardless of whether you voted to stay or leave originally. Would it be right to have a second referendum without 'Leave without a deal' as an option?


No, it wouldn't. The only thing that you need to bear in mind though is that the more options that you present the less likely that there will be a clear majority for any of them.
je suis Charlie
Still a chance we could crash out with no deal this week.
Rdg
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Mar 25 2019, 02:28 PM) *
No, it wouldn't. The only thing that you need to bear in mind though is that the more options that you present the less likely that there will be a clear majority for any of them.


How about a legally binding referendum with 2 questions (which I think are neutral in phrasing)

Qu1 Do you agree with the deal on the table (assume May's for now) Yes / No

Qu2. If and only if >50% reject the deal would you rather Leave No Deal / Remain

To top it off a further legal promise

For the next 5 General Elections a supplemental question to appear on the ballot - "Should the EU membership question be re-opened ?" with a 60% threshold to do that - that way whether we stay or go nobody can argue there is no chance of people changing later BUT it would also take it away from the normal manifestos/day to day business of the parties/MP's and stop Brexit sucking the life out of politics in the UK for the next 20 years
je suis Charlie
The chance of the EU allowing any discussion on "leaving later" is a non starter, this is it, either stay or go. The only advantage of going now is the EU will at some stage listen to us if we want back in. If we stay now, that's it, locked in.
Don't forget, for many people it's not leaving the EU as is, it's leaving the EU as it will become, 15 - 20 years down the primrose path when we're shackled to a European super state, funding a separate European army, having tax decisions made in Brussels, merely being some kind of vassal state, that's what scares some people.
Rdg
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 25 2019, 05:48 PM) *
The chance of the EU allowing any discussion on "leaving later" is a non starter, this is it, either stay or go. The only advantage of going now is the EU will at some stage listen to us if we want back in. If we stay now, that's it, locked in.
Don't forget, for many people it's not leaving the EU as is, it's leaving the EU as it will become, 15 - 20 years down the primrose path when we're shackled to a European super state, funding a separate European army, having tax decisions made in Brussels, merely being some kind of vassal state, that's what scares some people.


Largely based on misquotes, scare stories and outright lies - if anything us leaving makes that more likely (we have a veto and could veto any plan to remove our veto) but the story about an EU army came out of Trump threatening to withdraw some of the US support for Nato. That is one man I fear more than every EU politician and buerocrat combined and Brexit puts up firmly in his pocket
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Rdg @ Mar 25 2019, 05:12 PM) *
Largely based on misquotes, scare stories and outright lies - if anything us leaving makes that more likely (we have a veto and could veto any plan to remove our veto) but the story about an EU army came out of Trump threatening to withdraw some of the US support for Nato. That is one man I fear more than every EU politician and buerocrat combined and Brexit puts up firmly in his pocket

"STRASBOURG — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday endorsed the creation of an EU army, siding with French President Emmanuel Macron whose similar call in recent days drew a fusillade of wrathful tweets from U.S. President Donald Trump.

Merkel threw her support behind the idea in an address to the European Parliament, part of a series of leaders’ speeches on the future of Europe."

And,

"EMMANUEL Macron insisted the European Union must dial up plans for a "real European army" to ensure the member states are protected from external threats."

And,

"In November, French president Emmanuel Macron warned that Europeans cannot be protected without a “true, European army” to defend the EU from China, Russia and even the US."

All from different sources mind.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 25 2019, 06:27 PM) *
"STRASBOURG — German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Tuesday endorsed the creation of an EU army, siding with French President Emmanuel Macron whose similar call in recent days drew a fusillade of wrathful tweets from U.S. President Donald Trump.

Merkel threw her support behind the idea in an address to the European Parliament, part of a series of leaders’ speeches on the future of Europe."

And,

"EMMANUEL Macron insisted the European Union must dial up plans for a "real European army" to ensure the member states are protected from external threats."

And,

"In November, French president Emmanuel Macron warned that Europeans cannot be protected without a “true, European army” to defend the EU from China, Russia and even the US."

All from different sources mind.


And when remainers 18 year old sons and daughters get conscripted I will laugh. Very loudly.😂😂😂
je suis Charlie
I'll laugh when they all realise how much is gonna come out of THEIR pockets to pay for all the grandiose schemes. 😂
Andy Capp
Tories doing just as the last Labour Party did: they giveth then taketh away.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Mar 25 2019, 10:47 PM) *
Tories doing just as the last Labour Party did: they giveth then taketh away.

It's fascinating really, I mean how in all that's holy did we ever get into this mess? It's genuinely been like watching a chimps tea party on a bad day when all the chimps decided it would be cool to **** in the teapot and wipe their ***** with the tablecloth. It's a complete and utter display of ****witterery.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 26 2019, 12:06 AM) *
It's fascinating really, I mean how in all that's holy did we ever get into this mess? It's genuinely been like watching a chimps tea party on a bad day when all the chimps decided it would be cool to **** in the teapot and wipe their ***** with the tablecloth. It's a complete and utter display of ****witterery.


Loving it. subscription free comedy at it's best. Just wish Spitting Image was still around. laugh.gif Bit unfair on the chimp analogy as they certainly wouldn't conduct their lives in such a shambolic manner.
newres
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 26 2019, 12:06 AM) *
It's fascinating really, I mean how in all that's holy did we ever get into this mess? It's genuinely been like watching a chimps tea party on a bad day when all the chimps decided it would be cool to **** in the teapot and wipe their ***** with the tablecloth. It's a complete and utter display of ****witterery.

We got into this mess by letting the chimps vote on things that are way too complex. I thought I was relatively informed, but I've learned loads since the referendum so I include myself as a chimp.
newres
QUOTE (Rdg @ Mar 25 2019, 03:13 PM) *
How about a legally binding referendum with 2 questions (which I think are neutral in phrasing)

Qu1 Do you agree with the deal on the table (assume May's for now) Yes / No

Qu2. If and only if >50% reject the deal would you rather Leave No Deal / Remain

To top it off a further legal promise

For the next 5 General Elections a supplemental question to appear on the ballot - "Should the EU membership question be re-opened ?" with a 60% threshold to do that - that way whether we stay or go nobody can argue there is no chance of people changing later BUT it would also take it away from the normal manifestos/day to day business of the parties/MP's and stop Brexit sucking the life out of politics in the UK for the next 20 years

I think that's a very neat solution.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 26 2019, 10:51 AM) *
We got into this mess by letting the chimps vote on things that are way too complex. I thought I was relatively informed, but I've learned loads since the referendum so I include myself as a chimp.


I couldn't agree more. Especially chimps who completely disregard experts and their expertise.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Mar 26 2019, 12:14 PM) *
I couldn't agree more. Especially chimps who completely disregard experts and their expertise.

The masses don't believe the experts anymore. The experts have been proved wrong too often.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Mar 26 2019, 12:14 PM) *
I couldn't agree more. Especially chimps who completely disregard experts and their expertise.


Though it would easy to label it as retro-evolution, devolution is nearer the mark. Evolution of any species is reliant on two forces. 1. The ability to control their environment for the collective good, and 2, the realisation that our position is tentative. Both of these seem to have been ignored by both sides of this farce and the resulting carnage is laid bare for all to see.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 26 2019, 02:34 PM) *
The masses thick and climate change deniers (same thing) don't believe the experts anymore. The experts have been proved wrong too often.

FTFY
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 26 2019, 10:51 AM) *
We got into this mess by letting the chimps vote on things that are way too complex. I thought I was relatively informed, but I've learned loads since the referendum so I include myself as a chimp.

So I guess we should no longer have elections or referendums then?
Just "clever" people deciding the best way forward...😂
je suis Charlie
Apparently, with only a few days to go, nearly 2/3rds of the people who voted to remain can't be bothered to sign a petition that doesn't even require them to get off their ***** and find a polling station.
Turin Machine
Things approved by the European Parliament today:

* Copyright Directive
This will see search engines taxed for links, and content platforms rather than users being liable for copyright violations. Memes are protected though, so that's fine.

* Revision to General Safety Regulation
This will make the following tech mandatory fit in all cars in the EU by 2022:
Automatic emergency braking
Lane departure warning
Intelligent speed assistance (GPS-linked speed limiter)
Alcohol interlock
Driver drowsiness, attention and distraction detection and warning
Emergency stop signal
Reversing cameras/detectors
Accident data recorder (black box)
je suis Charlie
The European Parliament has backed a proposal to stop the obligatory one-hour clock change which extends daylight hours in summer EU-wide.

The proposal requires states to stop the twice-yearly clock change from 2021, and choose either permanent summer time or winter time.

Ministers will also have a say on this.

Under an EU directive, all 28 states currently switch to summer time on the last Sunday of March and back to winter time on the last Sunday of October.

The European Commission - in charge of drafting EU legislation - made the proposal last year, after a public consultation which showed 84% of respondents wanting to scrap the biannual clock changes. There were 4.6 million replies in that consultation, 70% of which were from Germans.

Thanks guys.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 26 2019, 08:04 PM) *
The European Parliament has backed a proposal to stop the obligatory one-hour clock change which extends daylight hours in summer EU-wide.

The proposal requires states to stop the twice-yearly clock change from 2021, and choose either permanent summer time or winter time.

Ministers will also have a say on this.

Under an EU directive, all 28 states currently switch to summer time on the last Sunday of March and back to winter time on the last Sunday of October.

The European Commission - in charge of drafting EU legislation - made the proposal last year, after a public consultation which showed 84% of respondents wanting to scrap the biannual clock changes. There were 4.6 million replies in that consultation, 70% of which were from Germans.

Thanks guys.



https://twitter.com/i/status/1110601030675456000


SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 26 2019, 08:04 PM) *
The European Parliament has backed a proposal to stop the obligatory one-hour clock change which extends daylight hours in summer EU-wide.

The proposal requires states to stop the twice-yearly clock change from 2021, and choose either permanent summer time or winter time.

Ministers will also have a say on this.

Under an EU directive, all 28 states currently switch to summer time on the last Sunday of March and back to winter time on the last Sunday of October.

The European Commission - in charge of drafting EU legislation - made the proposal last year, after a public consultation which showed 84% of respondents wanting to scrap the biannual clock changes. There were 4.6 million replies in that consultation, 70% of which were from Germans.

Thanks guys.


NOW they decide to stop it. Bloody foreigners, wait until we leave before they do something beneficial. If there ever was a case of conning most of the people all of the time it's "daylight saving time" Never mind I expect JC will offer double summertime to the yooth voter. rolleyes.gif
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 22 2019, 07:12 PM) *
3.6m now.

The government has rejected a petition with more than 5.78 million signatures calling for Brexit to be halted by revoking Article 50.

In an official response posted on the parliamentary petitions website, the Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) said: “This government will not revoke Article 50.

Awww!
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 27 2019, 12:55 AM) *
The government has rejected a petition with more than 5.78 million signatures calling for Brexit to be halted by revoking Article 50.

In an official response posted on the parliamentary petitions website, the Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) said: “This government will not revoke Article 50.

Awww!


So Mays going. Bring on the Mogg.🤣
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 27 2019, 05:41 PM) *
So Mays going. Bring on the Mogg.🤣

I'm actually laughing at this now, it's gone beyond comical, left farcical in the dust and is now approaching the realm of fantasy! Who are this bunch of bumbling incompetents? Why are they there? Bring back Oliver Cromwell!
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 27 2019, 07:05 PM) *
I'm actually laughing at this now, it's gone beyond comical, left farcical in the dust and is now approaching the realm of fantasy! Who are this bunch of bumbling incompetents? Why are they there? Bring back Oliver Cromwell!


Ah the most misunderstood politician since the Normans decided being in charge had it's disadvantages. Loved by those sensible enough to research and loathed by the left with passion even though the Levellers were probably JC's roll model.
Does this mean we can chop a few heads off as in ye olde times? Yippee laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Mar 27 2019, 07:27 PM) *
Ah the most misunderstood politician since the Normans decided being in charge had it's disadvantages. Loved by those sensible enough to research and loathed by the left with passion even though the Levellers were probably JC's roll model.
Does this mean we can chop a few heads off as in ye olde times? Yippee laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


I think we need Guy Fawkes.... (waits for knock on the door from the social media police) 😂
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Mar 27 2019, 07:27 PM) *
Ah the most misunderstood politician since the Normans decided being in charge had it's disadvantages. Loved by those sensible enough to research and loathed by the left with passion even though the Levellers were probably JC's roll model.
Does this mean we can chop a few heads off as in ye olde times? Yippee laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


So they voted 8 times to make no decision. What are we paying them for?😂 Revolution!!!!
SirWilliam
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 27 2019, 09:44 PM) *
So they voted 8 times to make no decision. What are we paying them for?😂 Revolution!!!!


Good job it's not a serious issue they have to make a decision on. rolleyes.gif
je suis Charlie
via Imgflip Meme Generator
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Mar 27 2019, 09:44 PM) *
So they voted 8 times to make no decision. What are we paying them for?😂 Revolution!!!!

No, but they've given an indication. Remind me, what was the term given to these votes? rolleyes.gif
SirWilliam
QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Mar 28 2019, 01:58 AM) *


Best of three? tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 28 2019, 07:16 AM) *
No, but they've given an indication. Remind me, what was the term given to these votes? rolleyes.gif

Yes an indication that they are useless and couldn't organise the proverbial p1ss up in a brewery. It would be very interesting if 'none of the above" was an option on the baĺlot paper.
Turin Machine
My man Nigel;
https://youtu.be/L5w6mwKzuJE

laugh.gif
Mr Brown
QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Mar 28 2019, 10:22 AM) *


This should have attracted much more air time. Ironic isn't it, even the EU s own a analysis of what no deal would mean says an invisible border with Eire is practical and possible.

This also hints there is another yet unconsidered option. That's simply stay and be as French as we can. Making the MEPs and civil servants earn their money and use our veto as a default position. In fact what Cameron should have done originally.
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Mar 28 2019, 11:06 AM) *
This should have attracted much more air time.

It's actually embarrassing. I can see how it appeals to a certain type though.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Mar 28 2019, 12:49 PM) *
It's actually embarrassing. I can see how it appeals to a certain type though.

Does this remind you of anyone?

https://mobile.twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/sta...935543385374720

😂
James_Trinder
On the topic of chimps:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-47731873
Turin Machine
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Mar 28 2019, 01:01 PM) *

Very funny. 😂 And unfortunately all too relevant. 😤
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