With the Tories in complete disarray they still can't land a sucker punch. Little doubt if Labour could find themselves a decent leader they would be in power by next xmas but no one leaps out as electable, so the embarrassment continues. So like his former namesake he may well have to wait 400 years before anyone thinks he is worth taking seriously.

Did you see today, that towrag who got found guilty of a perversion of justice this week has now been comparing herself to Jesus. No shame, no shame at all. But then she is a lefty.

"Lefty" is not the first adjective that comes to mind.

I don’t think he said woman. If he did, rather than lie I’m pretty sure he would have apologised for any offence and pointed out that calling someone a “stupid woman” is no more sexist than calling someone a “stupid man”. As far as I’m aware “woman” isn’t derogatory.

And by the way, I’d love to see him replaced with someone effective.

But it is misogynistic, something else he says should not be allowed. So 1, he was misogynistic and 2, he's lying about it.
And a number of lip readers have confirmed he said it

When I first saw the clip I was convinced he said people, as any ventriloquist will tell you words starting with P and B are difficult to say without lip movement and his lips did seem to purse "people". I am not going to argue with professional lip readers, but the point is that is the argument over the use of "stupid" or "woman"? I am sure a lot worse has been said in the Commons so I fail to see what all the fuss is over apart from highlighting a rattled leader. Whatever your political persuasion you have to admit she has become a liability to the Country and needs to be replaced.
Who by?.......Now that really is a question.

I thought the best bit was the look on his face, sort of a cross between petulant baby and a smacked ****! Hilarious!

If he did indeed lie in parliament, I’d say it is unpardonable. I genuinely don’t think he did, but as a remainer I’d love to see the back of Corbyn.

Who is your remainers of choice to lead the communist, sorry Labour party? Starmer?

ABC. Anyone but Corbyn. I’m not too bothered and am not too interested in party politics.

Labour are unelectable under Corbyn and the Tory front runners to replace Mother T include one Chris Grayling. And you think Labour have troubles. Vince Cable may get the big job yet.

Might not be a problem soon,

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/f...rm-centre-group

Both parties are a mess. If Labour ditched Corbyn, they’d win the next election by a landslide.

I don't believe that for a moment. Huge disconnect between London and rest of the Country. A new centre party with a charasmatic and fiscally astute leader would win a landslide. If they had proper funding.

But there isn’t a centre party and Brexiteers like to believe there’s a disconnect but it makes the mistake of thinking everyone cares as much about Brexit as they do. People voted Brexit for many reasons (including giving Cameron a bloody nose) and if Brexit was so important in the minds of voters, why didn’t May win a landslide at the last election? If it was Hilary Benn instead of Corbyn, the Tories would be destroyed.

The reason for Mays failure at the last GE? Because May is actually for remain whereas Corbyn is Brexit through and through.

Her mantra then was "no deal is a better than a bad deal" and what happened to UKIP? History doesn't support your interpretation. Labour are pro EU. 90% of the membership are remain and Corbyn voted to remain.

90% of the membership may be pro EU but a vast majority of Labour voters voted leave and this the conundrum facing the party. Corbyn knows this but it is the paid up members that are keeping him in a job and they are more interested in pushing their left wing agenda than ditching it in favour of forming a government. All he had to say was that Labour would support the Chequers agreement and it would now all be done and dusted and it would show that he was a man of principle that put country first, but oh no he sits on the fence like humpty dumpty in the knowledge that it may hurt whichever side he falls.

Ukip existed to get us out of Europe, job done. And Corbyn hates Europe, always has done, wants us out

Being pro Brexit is the opposite of putting the country first. He is ina tough place but I agree that he should have done a lot more than he has.

You can't blame Labour for the failure of May's deal. The blame for that sits squarely at her door for calling an election and at ERG's & DUP's door for not supporting her. The delicious irony if Brexit fails because of ERG.

He's been hopeless and he's out of step with the party.

Labour haven't had a decent leader since john Smith.

I'll second that. Indeed it has got progressively worse and considering Blair's legacy that's a pretty bold statement.

If John Smith had survived we would now be looking at a completely different political landscape, Labour would have carried the electorate with it and his legacy would still be evident today. A great loss to both the party and the country as a whole.

Define “decent leader”.

Clement Attlee
Winston Churchill
Margaret Thatcher
David Lloyd George

These are the 4 that top most lists.
No one in the last 30 years...

They are examples, not a definition.

Semantics dear boy. You asked for a definition and I gave you examples. Draw your conclusion from the examples I gave. If you can.🤣

Don’t be daft.

The context was the statement that there hadn’t been a decent leader since John Smith. In that context we’ve had a Labour leader that won three general elections. I’d say by any definition that would qualify Blair as an extremely successful leader. If it wasn’t for Iraq he would have been an extremely successful PM. Whatever your politics I’d say the statement about Labour not a having decent leader since Smith is a bit ropey.

He said 'decent' leader, by the definition Blair doesn't come close. Blair is now generally derided and disgraced. John Smith is still remembered with genuine affection and respect.

I agree with Newres, Blair was bloody brilliant as a leader for a political party he brought them more success than any party has seen since. John Smith was only ever in opposition so you'd have to judge him differently, but he certainly had the party behind him, so I guess I agree with TDH a little bit as well.

One could argue that Foot and Kinnock were leaders that showed promise but couldn't deliver what the electorate wanted; Blair recognised the flaw in socialism and exploited the corrupt tory underbelly to good effect, but in doing so made the fundamental mistake that effects most who reach the dizzy heights of a countries leader and that's the arrogance that clouds judgement.

A good party leader is not the same as a good PM and I can't remember a good PM, and that includes Churchill.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/alexan...762281.html?amp

I think it's difficult really to say one is good or one is bad. I think Gordon Brown was a man of integrity and principle and I thought John Major was a good PM. I liked them "personally" as far as I knew them, but I don't think I'm qualified to say someone was a good PM or not. Is there an objective way of doing so? It's undeniable that Churchill read the rise of fascism correctly in Europe and Chamberlain failed in his attempt at appeasement.

I think his mistake was in getting too close to Bush. The emails suggest it was too close a relationship and that he put that relationship above British lives.

We have all, at some time in our lives, got too close to a "bush". Strange that here we vilify Blair over the middle east fiasco yet GW is seen as some benign elder statesman.

GW?

George Walker (Bush). Think he was USA president.

Never heard hoim be referredto as just GW before, thanks for clarifying. Do you think he's regarded as an elder statesman? I thought he was disrespected just as much as trump.

It was said at the time that when his staff took over, every keyboard in the Whitehouse had had the letter W prised off in protest. Just sayin.

Although to be fair it was "Dubya" rather than GW. Great story that about the keyboards.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121980&page=1

Don't think sarcasm comes across too easily on here. They are all p****s but, as in life, some p****s are bigger than others. :

You need to be a sub but,

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/0...opposition/amp/

This ********'s not helping,

"John McDonnell has strongly defended a prominent Labour activist suspended from the party for anti-semitism after saying Jews were “chief financiers” of the slave trade.

In a leaked recording passed to The Sunday Times, the shadow chancellor used an appearance at a left-wing conference this weekend to express his sympathy with Jackie Walker, Momentum’s former vice-chairwoman, who was suspended in 2016. She faces an expulsion hearing next month."

From The Times by the way.