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TallDarkAndHandsome
Lets have a National holiday!
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 07:00 PM) *
Lets have a National holiday!

Lilke Martin Luther King Day?

Incidentally, I thought you’d gone?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 23 2018, 09:22 PM) *
Lilke Martin Luther King Day?

Incidentally, I thought you’d gone?


I have. No more nasty me. Just popping in now and again to see the tumbleweed on your "right on" views. Marching today were we? I mean we need another vote....
Andy Capp
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 09:45 PM) *
I have. No more nasty me. Just popping in now and again to see the tumbleweed on your "right on" views. Marching today were we? I mean we need another vote....

I think we do.
SirWilliam
Let's keep marching and shouting till we not only get another vote but one that the minority wants. This democracy malarkey is not only bad for business but stands in the way of a half decent jolly to party with our French counterparts. It is now becoming a war of contrition between the vociferous 10% who want to remain and the 10% who want out. Like the fox hunting abolition bill, 80% of the public wish they would get on with it.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 02:43 PM) *
Let's keep marching and shouting till we not only get another vote but one that the minority wants. This democracy malarkey is not only bad for business but stands in the way of a half decent jolly to party with our French counterparts. It is now becoming a war of contrition between the vociferous 10% who want to remain and the 10% who want out. Like the fox hunting abolition bill, 80% of the public wish they would get on with it.

You may well have a point.

If we're out, we're out, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's what the hardliners want. I'd be happy to accept a result that protects industry and jobs. But leaving the single market is suicidal. If we have to continue to accept EU migration then so be it. For those that voted on the immigration issue, in the main it wasn't EU migrants that they were concerned about.
x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 03:29 PM) *
You may well have a point.

If we're out, we're out, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. That's what the hardliners want. I'd be happy to accept a result that protects industry and jobs. But leaving the single market is suicidal. If we have to continue to accept EU migration then so be it. For those that voted on the immigration issue, in the main it wasn't EU migrants that they were concerned about.



For crying out loud, "hardliners".
newres
QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 04:10 PM) *
For crying out loud, "hardliners".

Well obviously not many of them will have been “self radicalised” like you.
x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) *
Well obviously not many of them will have been “self radicalised” like you.


Silly silly.
newres
QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 05:29 PM) *
Silly silly.

I think that’s the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) *
I think that’s the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif

Anyone who doesn't follow the MSM cr@p that you fawn over is a racist scumbag.

Some people are not 🐑.
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06:15 PM) *
Anyone who doesn't follow the MSM cr@p that you fawn over is a racist scumbag.

Some people are not 🐑.

Following Britain First does though doesn't it?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 06:23 PM) *
Following Britain First does though doesn't it?


Does he / she? Evidence? Or are you seeing them through your "everyones a racist" tinted spectacles???
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06:36 PM) *
Does he / she? Evidence? Or are you seeing them through your "everyones a racist" tinted spectacles???

I don’t have such spectacles. But I think it’s pretty reasonable to state that Britain First would share many of the same sentiments as the BNP. I’m sure there are some followers who aren’t racist but the majority will be. They do say they are anti immigration, but only an idiot would think we don’t need immigrants.
SirWilliam
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) *
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.

The problem is that in order for it to be palatable for me, we have to stay in the single market. In order to do that it means we have to accept free movement and that makes it unpalatable to the racists, sorry Brexiteers.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 08:07 PM) *
The problem is that in order for it to be palatable for me, we have to stay in the single market. In order to do that it means we have to accept free movement and that makes it unpalatable to the racists, sorry Brexiteers.

No need to be sorry fella. We voted out. Its called democracy. Even if you don't like it. We wouldn't be doing so well in the World Cup if we'd voted to stay.😂
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 09:18 PM) *
No need to be sorry fella. We voted out. Its called democracy. Even if you don't like it. We wouldn't be doing so well in the World Cup if we'd voted to stay.😂

Doing so well in the World Cup? You really are deluded. Beating Panama and Tunisia? laugh.gif
x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) *
Well obviously not many of them will have been “self radicalised” like you.




More than your lot.

Google the term and come back with the best description that most matches YOUR view of your accusation.
x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) *
I think that’s the term used when someone sits in their bedrooms in their y fronts watching Britain First videos. laugh.gif


I suggest you stop thinking then if you haven't already.

The real definition is attached here for your delectation. Go ooon, you know you want to open it and see what's in the package.

Click to view attachment

No wonder you are out of touch with reality Newres (BTW, how DID you come up with that nic?)

Best regards young fella wink.gif

Yer ol' mate

#FreeTommy

PS:- Banknotes all over the world are being signed, yes, worldwide!!

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/p...c&ref=notif



Click to view attachment


x2lls
You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/v...88392054630179/
Andy Capp
QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) *
You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/v...88392054630179/

Eh?
newres
QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 25 2018, 04:08 AM) *
You cannot deny this is global, the BBC don't count and neither do all the other MSMs the march went past. Career protecting victims.

https://www.facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/v...88392054630179/

How did they miss this global phenomena of two protests. laugh.gif
Strafin
I gotta ask, what are MSM's? I assume mainstream media?
SirWilliam
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jun 25 2018, 12:13 PM) *
I gotta ask, what are MSM's? I assume mainstream media?


Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif
Strafin
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif

Thats brilliant!

Works for me!
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 25 2018, 03:07 PM) *
Just googled it https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/MSM

Must admit I find this one more fitting to certain contributors. rolleyes.gif

You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) *
You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.


What my late father referred to as " the public school syndrome".

Mustn't stereotype though as I have no wish to alienate anyone.
Andy Capp
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.”

Bertrand Russell
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 25 2018, 06:22 PM) *
You think some members here are gay? Repressed homosexuality is quite common in right wing types so you may have a point.

Nah.. I find lefty liberals more likely to be in that camp. But hey.. Its a free world and I certianly don't have a problem with gay people. Sounds like you do though which is surprising for such a tolerant right on fella.🌈
On the edge
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) *
Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best".
Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields.
Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling.


How best we leave?

Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) *
How best we leave?

Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.


That would be my stance, in as much that we are leaving and any border issues is for the EU to sort out not us. We are unlikely to get a trade deal per se but if the Germans want to sell us their cars they are going to have to be a little flexible in buying whatever it is we manufacture. ( Do we actually make anything? ).
James_Trinder
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM) *
Do we actually make anything?


Yes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing..._United_Kingdom
On the edge
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34 PM) *


If only things were so straightforward!
SirWilliam
QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34 PM) *


Agreed we bolt things together for multi-nationals and undoubtedly supply the bolts for some overseas manufacturers but it seems the only fully owned British transport manufacturer is a motor cycle factory in Coventry. Now worse case scenario and BMW move production from Cowley to some Bavarian barn, what is stopping us making a low production car that fits present, and future, needs?
Instead of wringing hands in the belief that the sky is going to fall in and we will be back in the stone age within 20 years it is time for the free thinkers to start grasping the nettle.
newres
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) *
How best we leave?

Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.

But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 06:19 AM) *
But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.


Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.
newres
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 07:28 AM) *
Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.

That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 08:23 AM) *
That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.


Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!
newres
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 09:03 AM) *
Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!

Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 12:11 PM) *
Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.


No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.
newres
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 01:24 PM) *
No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.

Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.

Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........

Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.

If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) *
If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.


Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.

I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.
newres
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 06:37 PM) *
Yes, that's exactly right. The French and ironically the Germans are well versed in interpreting the prolix and onerous rules to protect their nation state interests, often to the detriment of free market. In the case I mentioned, the 'rules' comprise several fine print volumes.

I'd agree the difficulty is our Civil Service who interpret 'to the letter', in other words following English common law principles which is based on Mosaic law. The EU nation state legal systems tend to be based on Roman law, which is far more codified and open to interpretation. So, it's a bit like two teams trying to play hockey, with one team playing by the rules of lawn tennis on the basis that both games use bats and balls.

We've had nigh on 40 years to get the rules changed and make things better, but we haven't managed to do that. Again, Germany, France, Italy still have mass motor manufacturers whereas we don't.

In business terms at least, we have more of a chance of success with the emerging major economies in Asia / China / Inda on our own than with the EU, which is now too large to be as agile as new markets need.


I also agree that the decade plus it will take us to get up to speed will be economically difficult and possibly quite painful, but the end result will be a brighter long term future. First world dominance is sinking - we are safer in our own uncomfortable lifeboat.

The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.


I don't. People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket. You may not like the outcome but if they reneged on the referendum you wouldn't have 100000 Marching in London, you'd have millions. The geney is out of the bottle and no matter how much you want to put the stopper back in, it ain't gonna happen. So either accept it and make the best of what you perceive to be a bad situation or think seriously about relocating to the EU. For your own sanity. You can help Jean Claude with his bar bill.
Andy Capp
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) *
If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.

Germany now 'biggest breaker of EU rules', according to official figures
newres
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07:32 PM) *
I don't. People voted in general on a sovereignty and anti immigration ticket. You may not like the outcome but if they reneged on the referendum you wouldn't have 100000 Marching in London, you'd have millions. The geney is out of the bottle and no matter how much you want to put the stopper back in, it ain't gonna happen. So either accept it and make the best of what you perceive to be a bad situation or think seriously about relocating to the EU. For your own sanity. You can help Jean Claude with his bar bill.

We are leaving the EU, but what was not in the referendum was the detail. The government isn't going to let the country crash. The outcome will be compromise. Not between the EU and UK, but between factions of the Tory party. The so called red lines will have to move.

People voted on sovereignty only. There was no vote on immigration.
newres
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 27 2018, 08:46 PM) *

As long as the rules are enforced when seen to be broken. That's why the ECJ exists.
On the edge
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) *
The bit in red doesn't make sense. We trade independently of the EU. The EU negotiates tariffs and so on, but we trade at company level not national or continent level. I think broad claims like that are just rhetoric.


Yes we do trade at company level, but for many years subject to government rules. For instance, in some cases, such as arms, our government even dictates to whom we can sell to. The reality of the EU is that at best it simply adds an extra layer of rules which necessarily adds cost and complexity. For some continental nations, trading is easier because they have adopted a common currency but as we have seen, that brings many other problems. Similarly, cross boarder customs checks can be reduced, but we shouldn't run away with the idea that they don't exist. Back in the early 70's when we joined, our international trading customs and currency arrangements all worked well. Our biggest issue back then was internal - poor productivity; arguably the symptom of bad management.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM) *
As long as the rules are enforced when seen to be broken. That's why the ECJ exists.

The ECJ???

I thought it existed to give married men in dresses a pension at 60.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44612117

Get your pension 5 years early. Start wearing a dress at 59. Quite appealing in this weather!!!😂
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