Does your list of phobias know no limits?

😂

That's interesting, I've often thought that Germany is exceptionally good at avoiding. They generally do it like the Starbucks / Amazon tax avoidance, all strictly legal, but not right. The French are more open, just say no!

Frankly, it's hardly surprising that the EU regulations are so easy to avoid. Anyone who has been involved in trying to deliver a major project to multiple customers will fully understand the difficulties of working with say five different 'owners' let alone twenty plus, all with different languages and cultures.

Phobia
"A phobia is an overwhelming and debilitating fear of an object, place, situation, feeling or animal."
Another English word that is regularly misused.

Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on...

UK sovereignty was never under threat from the EU & the UK will, post Brexit, still need workers from overseas who will come here & work. Trebles all round.

Depends what you define as Sovereignty. We have a Sovereign and look at the huge powers she has

The EU made no bones about it, 'ever closer union' was and still is the ultimate aim. When that happens doubtless we'll have a ceremonial Westminister with as much power as the County of Berkshire!

We've always had workers from overseas, even before we joined the EU. Don't think very many thought we'd not need overseasj workers when we come out. That flys in the face of past history. For instance, an MP called Powell I think, arranged for large numbers to come to help run our Health service back in the 60s.

I have newresophobia

The fear of someone who wants to live in a basket case of a country.

Oh the irony.

Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍

However the Brexit leader’s view on business is “F U C K business”. Now I assume by “basket case” you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we don’t stay in the single market. It’s kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of “taking back control “ is just a “notion”. There won’t even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis won’t be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously we’re gonna need less workers if we leave.

All that’s really left is a misconception that we’re ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.

No, but many people, maybe including yourself, use them erroneously!
Not liking or agreeing with something is not an irrational fear!

Schengens on its last legs...most countries are just ignoring it now and Merkels position is weak. Macron has a lower approval rating than Trump and nationalist parties are on the rise. Seems like a good tine to leave....

Interesting point as to whether protection of sovereignty means the continuation of a monarchy or maintaining a legislate independent of outside influence? When one looks at the last 2,000 years of European history it seems to be one of continual slaughter so any bringing together has to be of some benefit. The problem is that those human attributes that contributed to conflict are still prevalent and anyone who thinks we are immune from war is sadly deluded. A King/Queen will not prevent one anymore than a border post, but a "united" Europe is a formidable force in the face of adversity. On the other side of the pendulum is the collective proletariat who quite honestly don't give a Jean-Claude Juncker who is in charge providing they don't impose their will unduly, but the ugly face of nationalism will inevitably surface when they do, which in essence is what happened when Cameron in his infinite wisdom decided to test the status quo with a plebiscite of unparalleled naivety. It was not so much the EU that people objected to as the arrogant politicians on either side of the English Channel who, in escence, asked the electorate for a vote of confidence and got their answer.
Monarchy,sovereignty,independence are words banded around by those who would make mischief and it will be interesting to see where we are in 10 years.
Probably still sorting out brexit.

which makes TDH's comment about immigration being the main reason people voted to leave all the more ironic.

Yes, that's the sort of trouble you get into when mainstream politicians start trading misinformation and fake data. It means people with other agendas can manipulate the situation for their own ends. Happens all round. For instance Nigel Farage publicity about funding NHS condemned by the Chancellor only to be adopted 'now the time is right' as official policy!

I've just been talking to people in the UKs rust belt in the Midlands. Looking forward to a return of manufacture, foodstuffs drinks et all in the UK, rather than being tanked from Holland or France. When asked who is going to work the factories as we haven't got enough labour, there was a simple answer. The secret is in the word controlled, the door isn't simply wide open, you just have to knock.

Certainly makes you think. Why aren't the bosses twittering about Brexit starting to think of investing in the UK for once?

Because they want to be able to trade tariff free into Europe perchance?

I'm far from convinced that the 'collective proletariat' don't care who rules. Indeed, even recently there has been some murmuring about the return of the White Horse to a traditional Berkshire. Then, there are the nationalist movements which are pretty sizeable in Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. Plus we have the Cornish half joking about their nation. The English seem to like it too, hence hanging on to illogical Counties which don't exist and the romantic attachment to Royalty - in spite of Rupert Murdoch's best endeavours. The only reason overt displays if 'Englishness' are derided is because it's emblem and flag have been adopted by extreme right wing supporters, who by their own admission, were groomed out of thuggish commercial footballing support. Try telling a Cbannel Islander or a Manxman, it doesn't matter who governs him!

Not all traders biggest matket is the EU. The way you bang on anyone would think we export to them more than we import. Its a two way street. I dont think German car manufactuters are going to be keen on punishing us. You really are Mr project fear. Anyways we are out. No turning back. 👍☀😂🍻🍺🍸

85% of cars made in the UK go abroad. When that stops the Germans will be busy taking up the slack.

Personally I prefer French wine...Cote Du Walsall & Pays de Kidderminster? No thanks...

We really ought to be promoting UK business; particularly manufacturing.

No reason why we shouldn't see HP sauce, confectionery, dairy products, beer etc.etc.etc. produced here. Just how much diesel fuel that would save. Apparently the Irish are getting a tad worried that their lorry route to our east coast ports is at risk.

Some big sea carriers have been constructed, so far less 'cross UK' lorry movements; good news for our emissions targets.

Then Mr Trump is apparently threatening Harley Davidson with some massive taxes because it's been slagging him off about his imposition of tariffs against the EU. Bring it on, let's hear it for Triumph; still going strong.

Talking of bikes, anyone heard of a couple of lightweight machines - MUTT? 125cc and 250cc imported engines, but put together in English frames in Brum!

We'll get there if only we stop trying to go back to the past - the EU is now in terminal decline.

No, but where’s the advantage for those that trade outside of Europe? They face just as much uncertainty as those that trade into Europe. There just is no upside economically. We are hardly going to be able to gain better trading deals on our own than we did as part of the largest trading bloc on the planet. If you can actually state one benefit from day one to our economy then I’m all ears.

To a lot in here the EU is some sort of deity rather than a corrupt unaudited bloated parady of the original common market that we joined. It just needs a reset and us leaving may precipitate that. I think it has already started a conversation amongst the other EU stalwarts. Being anti EU is not being xenophobic or anti Europe.

True, but every xenophobe IS anti EU. And it's rare during online "debates" that those that are anti-EU don't bring immigration into it. Immigration levels will only change if job levels change.

And every liberal wants open borders as long as they dont have to put immigrants up in there own homes. Talk the talk. Walk the walk.

But I wouldn't want you in my home either! Silly argument.

We had an Afghan refugee stay with us for 5 months. Nice lad.

Good for you...How did that come about?

No its not. If you feel that strongly about it and have spare rooms, you could easily help as it appears dannyboy has done.

Which implies you don't consider the quality, simply from where it doth ferment.
That's a great example of doing us down.

Yes it is because I wouldn’t want any stranger in my home either; being an immigrant isn’t the issue. Having said that, I’m not sure open boarders are a good idea. Road to **** paved with good intentions, etc.

Amused by this: The Trouble With Identity Politics.

And I don’t think completely open borders are either. But then the UK has never had that and when I go to France I have to show my passport.

Quite so, even if you are someone who likes casual visitors and invite them in, you don't leave the front door unlocked!

We were asked if we'd house the lad after he was beaten up in Reading on more than one occasion. Social services thought Newbury would be better for him.

Have you tasted English wine?

Quite. Won many awards recently and great vine weather at the moment. An upside to global warming... For once...

👍 Actions speak louder than words. Applause sir. Courage of your convictions. Others should take note.

Prat.

Eh!

You don’t think it’s a prattish argument to say if you haven’t personally taken in a refugee your opinion isn’t valid?

No. It shows some care and walk the walk and others like to pretend they care.😂You remind me of Lily Allen.

Where are the refugees supposed to live? Detention centre? Hotel? Or perhaps you think they should be put at the top of the housing lists....If people that want mass immigration volunteered spare rooms I'd have more sympathy for these opinions. NIMBY.

Interesting point; but it's a departure from the traditional high Tory view of things. Dear old Norman Tebbitt got into to trouble for enunciating it in plain language. When he was out of work, Tebbitt senior got on his bike and looked for it. Good job his travels didn't bring him to this neck of the woods - response would have been 'unless someone puts you up, p1ss off back up North'!

Maybe those people didn't want to go and bomb the cr4p out them in the first place leaving them in need of a place to go!

Perhaps I'm getting old, but I seem to remember when we had hordes of young men from a poor foreign country making a short sea crossing, notionally to work on our motorways etc.etc.etc. All quite legit and legal back then. Seem to remember some of them wanted to and actually did bomb the cr4p out of us. Lest we forget.

You are talking about refugees. Thats a whole different kettle of fish. Most of the migrants are economic and not from war torn countries. But if they are young and brown or black a lot or people "choose" to see them as refugees. And it doesn't answer my question. Where are they supposed to live if the people that want this type of immigration dont actually want to help with accomodation. Perhaps we should have a "voluntary" income tax so that those that want to help can?

It doesn't matter what people 'choose' to see them as - the Govt is pretty strict & most immigrants are sent back. The lad we gave a roof to, once he passed his '18th' Birthday was on the first plane back to Kabul.

If a person can prove they will be in danger if sent back, they are granted refugee status. Danger is not simply living in a war torn country.