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Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2011, 08:38 PM) *
Then why this thread? If traffic queues are not as bad as they were pre by-pass and the works that are causing any jams are only temporary, what is the problem?

Short memories.
user23
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2011, 08:38 PM) *
Then why this thread?
If traffic queues are not as bad as they were pre by-pass and the works that are causing any jams are only temporary, what is the problem?
People love to moan, it's a very British thing to do.
spartacus
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2011, 08:38 PM) *
Then why this thread?

The thread started as a comment on the traffic plans for the town centre area..... 'Thread drift' has taken us into commenting on the bypass, feral kids, the trans-continental road network and danny's gonads.....

The truly astounding thing about a thread discussing the traffic plan for the town centre though, is that in three pages of waffle nobody has mentioned the other 'B' word - Bollards...

The proposal to completely remove buses and taxis from the pedestrian zone should be strongly opposed by all posters on here.... With the bollards no longer pinging up and down like Jack-in-the-Boxes whenever taxis go through there will be no more instances of 'confused' or mentally incapable drivers banging into them at regular intervals... In one swift move it will scrub out 70% of the Newbury forum traffic!




One point I think needs clarification though is why the need to open up the 'Pedestrian Zone' to traffic from 5pm? Yeah, I know it'll relieve traffic flow on the A339 etc, but if maintaining a safe area for pedestrians is so important during the day and traffic is banned when when pedestrian movement is relatively low, why allow vehicles into the area when the numbers of pedestrians is at it's peak?

If traffic can operate safely in the busy, bustling hours of 8am-9.30pm and also now be deemed to be safe enough to use the area from 5pm when vehicle numbers will be high and office workers will be spilling out onto the streets then why have a Pedestrian Zone at all?

I'd argue that it's a luxury that Newbury cannot afford. With the removal of traffic from Parkway Bridge apart from buses and taxis then daytime traffic is confined to the SINGLE CROSSING over the Canal/River. A Pedestrian Zone may be aesthetically pleasing n all that, but it restricts Newbury traffic too much.... Other towns have them but other towns aren't split in half by rivers like Newbury


Still.... somebody must have thought transforming the Market Place into the Dead Zone throughout the week was a good idea at the time... Perhaps I'm missing the point.....?

Iommi
Newbury high-street is usually dead at 5:00 pm.
NWNREADER
West Berkshire Council has the Newbury Vision as a standing policy for developing the town area through to 2025. There are parameters that limit the scope of the works, including the development of a road infrastructure that accommodates The Vision without any major road building. In particular, without an additional river crossing. My feeling is the conflicting demands are very difficult to accommodate. I don't like the proposals, but unless the whole concept is amended then for the next 14 years these are the sort of tinkerings that will be presented.

Interesting article in the local paper for Slough recently - they have installed rising bollards in their High Street and the local Member was quite clear there would be no sympathy for tailgaters stuffing their cars into the posts......
Iommi
Yes. While we don't have a 'west circular', we will be forever tinkering.
Biker1
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 11 2011, 12:49 AM) *
The thread started as a comment on the traffic plans for the town centre area........


The sub heading was "Will this sort out our traffic?"
I presume this meant Newbury.
Subsequent posts have stated that there is nothing to sort out with the by-pass and the end of road works.

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 11 2011, 12:49 AM) *
Other towns have them but other towns aren't split in half by rivers like Newbury

Most towns are built on rivers and they have to be crossed.
It's the way they evolved by the need for water.
Admittedly, many have more crossings.
So we have built one crossing to the West and now we need another?
Biker1
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 11 2011, 02:39 AM) *
Yes. While we don't have a 'west circular', we will be forever tinkering.

And your proposed destructive route for this road?
(Sorry, made an assumption there.
Perhaps you can do it without destroying houses or countryside?)
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 11 2011, 05:09 PM) *
And your proposed destructive route for this road?
(Sorry, made an assumption there.
Perhaps you can do it without destroying houses or countryside?)

When did I propose a route?
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 11 2011, 05:08 PM) *
So we have built one crossing to the West and now we need another?

We don't need one, but it would help to make Newbury Town more pedestrian friendly without impacting on traffic flow across the town.
blackdog
An eastern ring-road/bypass passing between Newbury and Thatcham would be of more use - diverting a lot of traffic out of the town.
Iommi
QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 11 2011, 05:32 PM) *
An eastern ring-road/bypass passing between Newbury and Thatcham would be of more use - diverting a lot of traffic out of the town.

I'm not sure how an east circular would help Newbury Town centre. We kind of have one already.
Simon Kirby
I drive around Newbury quite a lot for work and very rarely find the traffic heavy, even at peak times.

I think the officer's comments on the use of Parkway were interesting - people prefer to sit in heavy parkway traffic rather than use the 339 which is almost always moving freely, an observation which I'd agree with. There appears to be something of a cultural thing here which I guess is historic which I don't understand as I've only lived 15 years.

I don't use the highstreet that much, but I would like it to be pedestrianised all the time for the reasons made in other posts. I think it would be a good idea to have the market square pedestrianised all the time too, though it is a dismal place most of the time, though that's partly due to the taxis.

The one bit of town where traffic is ridiculous is the Tesco roundabout and entrance to the trading estate, and I wonder if this is all part of the WBC plan to blight out-of-town shopping, because the whole thing appears to have been very badly planned if indeed it was planned at all.
Strafin
I chance Park Way quite often. Sometimes it's clear and it saves crawling up the A339 at the start of the ruch hour jam. However get there too late and you can sit there for ages. It's a risk I'd say not a choice.
user23
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jan 11 2011, 06:15 PM) *
I drive around Newbury quite a lot for work and very rarely find the traffic heavy, even at peak times.

I think the officer's comments on the use of Parkway were interesting - people prefer to sit in heavy parkway traffic rather than use the 339 which is almost always moving freely, an observation which I'd agree with. There appears to be something of a cultural thing here which I guess is historic which I don't understand as I've only lived 15 years.
I agree. Most times when I walk over the bridge at 6ish I see traffic tailed back along Parkway however the Ring Road is almost always moving freely.

I wonder why people still use the bridge day after day?
Strafin
I've just explained why I do, I am guessing you have selective reading on again User?
Iommi
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 11 2011, 06:48 PM) *
I agree. Most times when I walk over the bridge at 6ish I see traffic tailed back along Parkway however the Ring Road is almost always moving freely.

I wonder why people still use the bridge day after day?

Perhaps there are parts of the road system you cannot see on your journey that might explain it. Like big queues at the Robin Hood East bound for instance.
user23
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 11 2011, 07:36 PM) *
Perhaps there are parts of the road system you cannot see on your journey that might explain it. Like big queues at the Robin Hood East bound for instance.
Perhaps, but then Western Avenue is almost always clear.

It's not hard to find a quick route of of town at that time of day.
Biker1
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 11 2011, 07:12 PM) *
When did I propose a route?

You didn't - that's why I'm asking.
You suggested we need a "West Circular" - you cannot have this without a route!! unsure.gif
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 11 2011, 08:11 PM) *
You didn't - that's why I'm asking.
You suggested we need a "West Circular" - you cannot have this without a route!! unsure.gif

I said the absence of one would mean that we will be constantly tinkering with the road system. I realise, of course, that this would now be very hard to achieve. I understand that plans were considered in the 70s, but the council didn't go through with it.
Strafin
Same old story with the bridge at Thatcham Station, an opportunity to have one built was dismissed at the time as unecessary, now we're told building one would be impossible.
Biker1
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 12 2011, 08:48 AM) *
Same old story with the bridge at Thatcham Station, an opportunity to have one built was dismissed at the time as unecessary, now we're told building one would be impossible.

Almost nothing, these days, is impossible in the civil engineering world.
Just look at the massive railway bridge they have just wheeled into place over the Caversham Road in Reading.
I think you'll find that the holding factor here is, as usual, money and who will need to cough it up in order to bring about this bridge.

Network Rail and the Council being the two biggest players.

Here I go again but if the by-pass had been built to the East this would not be a problem.
blackdog
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 11 2011, 05:38 PM) *
I'm not sure how an east circular would help Newbury Town centre. We kind of have one already.


The A339 can only be regarded as a central route these days as it will be the only in-town route (10-5) in a few month's time

An eastern route would enable traffic to and from Thatcham, Hambridge Road/Lane and the Racecourse to get north to the M4 or south to Basingstoke/Tot Hill without passing through the Newbury bottlenecks (A4/Hambridge Rd, A339 roundabouts).

A western route is already in place (the A34), though the addition of an interchange on the Enborne Road might do some good.

Iommi
QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 12 2011, 06:40 PM) *
A western route is already in place (the A34), though the addition of an interchange on the Enborne Road might do some good.

Yes, good point, and something I have considered as well.
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 12 2011, 06:40 PM) *
The A339 can only be regarded as a central route these days as it will be the only in-town route (10-5) in a few month's time

An eastern route would enable traffic to and from Thatcham, Hambridge Road/Lane and the Racecourse to get north to the M4 or south to Basingstoke/Tot Hill without passing through the Newbury bottlenecks (A4/Hambridge Rd, A339 roundabouts).

A western route is already in place (the A34), though the addition of an interchange on the Enborne Road might do some good.


I agree that the interchange at Enborne Road is a good idea. But can the road into town handle the increased traffic?
blackdog
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 12 2011, 08:01 PM) *
I agree that the interchange at Enborne Road is a good idea. But can the road into town handle the increased traffic?

Residents wouldn't like it but most of the road is pretty good or could easily be made so - the junction with Newtown Road/Bartholomew Street would be the biggest problem. I wouldn't have thought it would make a huge difference though - not like an eastern ring road. But it would be a lot lot cheaper.
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 13 2011, 06:06 PM) *
Residents wouldn't like it but most of the road is pretty good or could easily be made so - the junction with Newtown Road/Bartholomew Street would be the biggest problem. I wouldn't have thought it would make a huge difference though - not like an eastern ring road. But it would be a lot lot cheaper.


I guess the reason people wouldn't be too happy is that the amount of traffic would be hugely increased. Never rule it out, would be interesting to see how it could work.
Paul Thompson
Banning private vehicles from park Way is crazy because once again we are left with only the A339 for cars to cross town and this is normally packed during the rush hour and now will be overly busy all day.
All it will take is a minor bump and chaos will ensue.
WBC should either continue to allow private cars across the Park way bridge or provide an alternative. Locals should not have to use the by-pass to cross town and go miles out of their way through Wash Common and Speen.
dannyboy
QUOTE (Paul Thompson @ Jan 14 2011, 01:45 PM) *
Banning private vehicles from park Way is crazy because once again we are left with only the A339 for cars to cross town and this is normally packed during the rush hour and now will be overly busy all day.
All it will take is a minor bump and chaos will ensue.
WBC should either continue to allow private cars across the Park way bridge or provide an alternative. Locals should not have to use the by-pass to cross town and go miles out of their way through Wash Common and Speen.

During rush hour you can drive down Northbrook St.
NWNREADER
QUOTE (Paul Thompson @ Jan 14 2011, 01:45 PM) *
Banning private vehicles from park Way is crazy because once again we are left with only the A339 for cars to cross town and this is normally packed during the rush hour and now will be overly busy all day.
All it will take is a minor bump and chaos will ensue.
WBC should either continue to allow private cars across the Park way bridge or provide an alternative. Locals should not have to use the by-pass to cross town and go miles out of their way through Wash Common and Speen.


The A339 is not the By-Pass........ Or have I misunderstood?

(It happens)
Darren
http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article...articleID=15629

So the buses are out, but security vans and Royal Mail can stay. Will another set of bollards be placed in the Northern entrance to Northbrook St to stop vehicles just driving round?
Bofem
Good point. It's always worth checking what WBC do in the name of the "Vision" with local opinion from the time.

How many things can you spot where we got the opposite of what we wanted?
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 14 2011, 01:59 PM) *
During rush hour you can drive down Northbrook St.


I await to see the impact of this.
Iommi
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 08:30 AM) *
I await to see the impact of this.

What do you mean, this happens now!
Iommi
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 08:30 AM) *
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 14 2011, 01:59 PM) *
During rush hour you can drive down Northbrook St.
I await to see the impact of this.

What do you mean; this happens now?
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 15 2011, 08:53 AM) *
I await to see the impact of this.
What do you mean; this happens now?


What I meant was, I wait to see what impact it has on Norhbrook Street. I would have kept the pedestrian zone until 6pm, and I did make that point at the NRA meeting this week.
Iommi
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 09:04 AM) *
What I meant was, I wait to see what impact it has on Norhbrook Street. I would have kept the pedestrian zone until 6pm, and I did make that point at the NRA meeting this week.

Why 'till 6? That seems, if you would excuse me, daft?
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 15 2011, 09:06 AM) *
Why 'till 6? That seems, if you would excuse me, daft?


The shops open to 5:30 or 6pm. If the street suddenly fills with traffic, would you shop there? Let's hope I'm wrong, and that we don't see too much of a difference, but that is my concern. I can't see the harm of taxi's parking in the Market Square after 6pm either.
Iommi
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 09:22 AM) *
The shops open to 5:30 or 6pm. If the street suddenly fills with traffic, would you shop there? Let's hope I'm wrong, and that we don't see too much of a difference, but that is my concern. I can't see the harm of taxi's parking in the Market Square after 6pm either.

Well rush hour starts to build up at around 4:30pm, yet in my experience, Northbrook Street is 'dead' at that time. Personally, whether traffic exists in Northbrook Street or not doesn't make any difference on my decision where to shop. Maybe I'm being chauvinistic, but I wouldn't expect to see 'housewives/husbands' with young kids in the highstreet at 5:00pm either. I really doubt pedestrianisation has made any real difference on the consumers choice to shop in town or not.

Taxies will want to wait in the busiest places in town. Historically, the north end of town is a graveyard and an unpopular place for taxies to wait.
user23
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 15 2011, 09:28 AM) *
Well rush hour starts to build up at ~4:30pm, yet in my experience, Northbrook Street is 'dead' at that time. Personally, whether traffic exists in Northbrook Street or not doesn't make any difference on my decision where to shop. Maybe I'm being chauvinistic, but I would expect to see 'housewives/husbands' with young kids in the highstreet at 5:00pm either. I really doubt pedestrianisation has made any real difference on the consumers choice to shop in town or not.

Taxies will want be where the crowds are.
It gets busy again between 5 and 6 and some shops stay open until 6 to pick up trade from those walking home from work.
Iommi
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 15 2011, 09:33 AM) *
It gets busy again between 5 and 6 and some shops stay open until 6 to pick up trade from those walking home from work.

Not when I've been down there it ain't, certainly 'busy' is an exaggeration in any case. You have to get the WH Smith before 5:25 for instance.
user23
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 15 2011, 09:57 AM) *
Not when I've been down there it ain't, certainly 'busy' is an exaggeration in any case. You have to get the WH Smith before 5:25 for instance.
I walk the entire length between 5.30pm and 6.30pm many weekdays and it's by no means "dead" any time before 6pm.
Strafin
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 15 2011, 10:23 AM) *
I walk the entire length between 5.30pm and 6.30pm many weekdays and it's by no means "dead" any time before 6pm.


I walk up from the Clock Tower to about the Millets mark at about 17:30 - 18:00 and it's always very quiet.
Iommi
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 15 2011, 10:23 AM) *
I walk the entire length between 5.30pm and 6.30pm many weekdays and it's by no means "dead" any time before 6pm.

You must walk slow, or are you a man of the road? tongue.gif

BTW - 'dead' should read: not busy, or quiet; as it certainly is, even on a Saturday.
NWNREADER
Picture this - 'Heathcliffe' User and 'Cathy' Strafin meeting in the middle..................
Darren
I find it strange that vehicles serving a vital public service like buses are banned, along with the multitude of private delivery companies. Royal Mail and private security vehicles are allow in. Hardly fair.
Richard Garvie
The real test will be how the junction at the new hotel copes, and what effect is felt by the Robin Hood.
Iommi
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 06:44 PM) *
The real test will be how the junction at the new hotel copes, and what effect is felt by the Robin Hood.

Yet you would rather there was no relief (via Northbrook St) at rush hour?
Richard Garvie
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 15 2011, 09:33 PM) *
Yet you would rather there was no relief (via Northbrook St) at rush hour?


Well, I'm just concerned about the effect it will have. Hopefully I'm wrong!!!
dannyboy
QUOTE (Richard Garvie @ Jan 15 2011, 08:30 AM) *
I await to see the impact of this.

Wait to see?

You can see it now - just pop along to Northbrook Street at 8:45am.
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