Just a LITTLE bit against the law... Options

[Strafin]

And I think the last few posts sum up the problem perfectly!

[Claude]

Don't you have to drive in order to park?

A car lifted off a low-loader by crane would be parked but wouldn't have been driven.

Why is this discussion still ongoing anyway, I thought it was documented earlier on in the thread that the police will hardly ever, if at all, prosecute the driver of a car parked half on the pavement, so it's all pretty academic.

[Andy Capp]

Don't you have to drive in order to park?

Usually, yes, but 'being parked' is not 'being driven'. There is no compulsion to admit to driving or parking a car on, or partially on, a pavement; nor is there a requirement to move it off unless it is causing an obstruction.

[spartacus]

My understanding is that councils outside London may put up prohibition signs for parking on pavements without first seeking government approval, but there is no national law regards parking on pavements. Only London prohibits parking on pavements by law.

Correct. In Reading BC they're trialling a ban of footway and grass verge parking (see here for maps etc Reading BC parking) They've chosen some pretty wide roads for this experimental Order. They haven't been brave enough to include the narrow roads where if that sort of thing was brought in residents would start parking FULLY on the road instead and then NOBODY would get past. Don't think it will catch on too widely.

I believe that 'should not' is not the same as 'must not'. 'Must not' is absolute, but 'should not' is another form of 'not recommend', i.e. although not acceptable, there may be times or circumstances where something is acceptable.

Also correct.

Although failure to comply with the other rules of The Highway Code will not, in itself, cause a person to be prosecuted, The Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings under the Traffic Acts (see The road user and the law) to establish liability. This includes rules which use advisory wording such as ‘should/should not’ or ‘do/do not’.

I suppose you could claim that it had been dropped there by crane!

Or "I'm sorry ociffer, but we wuz all a bit drunk when we drove home last night. Can't member who droved"

[Biker1]

Why is this discussion still ongoing anyway,

Claude you seem to be very good at deciding when and if a topic should end.
If others wish to continue the debate then it's up to them.
You do not have to join in or even read it if you don't agree!!

[dannyboy]

walking along Northbrook St this morning I noticed a few tickets being dished out.....

[Exhausted]

walking along Northbrook St this morning I noticed a few tickets being dished out.....

I assume that was before 10am when it became pedestrianised. However, where does the remit of the Green Meanie end. If the vehicle is parked fully on the pavement, even if there are yellow lines, is it outside their responsibility therefore they are not allowed to issue a parking fine as the vehicle is not on the highway.

So, where is the edge of the footpath in Northbrook Street. I haven't nipped down to have a look, but I thought that there was a line of inset paving blocks which defined the footpath and was originally intended for when it was partially pedestrianised. If so and the car is inside that line, assuming said line exists, is it technically on the footpath.
It is a bit rough for WBC to slap a ticket on in that street anyway, parking is already restricted as it stops after 10 am and the street is wide enough for a couple of HGV's to park opposite each other. What then are the rules in Northbrook Street regarding loading and unloading. If I have loaded my wallet in HSBC, does that count for a concession.

[dannyboy]

I assume that was before 10am when it became pedestrianised. However, where does the remit of the Green Meanie end. If the vehicle is parked fully on the pavement, even if there are yellow lines, is it outside their responsibility therefore they are not allowed to issue a parking fine as the vehicle is not on the highway.

So, where is the edge of the footpath in Northbrook Street. I haven't nipped down to have a look, but I thought that there was a line of inset paving blocks which defined the footpath and was originally intended for when it was partially pedestrianised. If so and the car is inside that line, assuming said line exists, is it technically on the footpath.
It is a bit rough for WBC to slap a ticket on in that street anyway, parking is already restricted as it stops after 10 am and the street is wide enough for a couple of HGV's to park opposite each other. What then are the rules in Northbrook Street regarding loading and unloading. If I have loaded my wallet in HSBC, does that count for a concession.

There are no yellow lines along the 'at any time' section of Northbrook St.

A nice little earner I'd imaging - given that most folk have no clue what road signs actually mean...

[Exhausted]

There are no yellow lines along the 'at any time' section of Northbrook St.

A nice little earner I'd imaging - given that most folk have no clue what road signs actually mean...

I think that there was a legal dispensation granted to WBC regarding the cobbled areas so that they weren't spoiled with yellow paint. There are signs which are displayed however which denote that the area is a no parking zone. This includes the market place evenings and overnight. My question about the sidewalk markings in Northbrook Street was a little tongue in cheek however as I'm sure the parking is a blanket cover but some of the shops do not have a rear delivery area so who is allowed to park to deliver. As I don't park there I can't say I've looked at the signage but I'm sure there must be someone out there with a camera phone who could capture an image for us.

[dannyboy]

I think that there was a legal dispensation granted to WBC regarding the cobbled areas so that they weren't spoiled with yellow paint. There are signs which are displayed however which denote that the area is a no parking zone. This includes the market place evenings and overnight. My question about the sidewalk markings in Northbrook Street was a little tongue in cheek however as I'm sure the parking is a blanket cover but some of the shops do not have a rear delivery area so who is allowed to park to deliver. As I don't park there I can't say I've looked at the signage but I'm sure there must be someone out there with a camera phone who could capture an image for us.

as far as I understand it legitimate deliveries are allowed to unlod & load. Also, those with a blue disabled badge can park for upto three hours.

everyone else, taxi drivers included, can only stop to let passengers alight.

What it does not allow however is drivers to park on the 'pavements', even if they are doing one of the three legitimate things above.

The signage simply has the red circle & bar on a yellow back ground, followed by the words 'Pedestrian Zone - At Any Time'. ie, even if traffic is allowed down the road, parking is still prohibited.

[Exhausted]

What it does not allow however is drivers to park on the 'pavements', even if they are doing one of the three legitimate things above.

Possibly, although if there is a defined footpath, then parking on it would possibly be an offence then that cannot be dealt with by the WBC Green Meanies and would need one of our Bobbies to issue a summons. Might be splitting hairs perhaps but worth clarification.

[spartacus]

I assume that was before 10am when it became pedestrianised. However, where does the remit of the Green Meanie end. If the vehicle is parked fully on the pavement, even if there are yellow lines, is it outside their responsibility therefore they are not allowed to issue a parking fine as the vehicle is not on the highway.

Possibly, although if there is a defined footpath, then parking on it would possibly be an offence then that cannot be dealt with by the WBC Green Meanies and would need one of our Bobbies to issue a summons. Might be splitting hairs perhaps but worth clarification.

Bad news for you I'm afraid. The 'meanies' deal with ALL of the public highway where there are parking restrictions. The full width up to the edge of private property/private land. That includes grass verges and footways along where yellow lines or parking bays might be. As The Good Book says:

"Waiting restrictions
Waiting restrictions indicated by yellow lines apply to the carriageway, pavement and verge."

The "My car wheels weren't touching the yellow lines so your ticket doesn't count" brigade are seldom successful with their appeals. As are the "My car was fully on the pavement, not on the road, ha!" lot..

This is the sign that's in the pedestrian area. I think they're on every single lamp column, they certainly seem to be all over the place. Highlights that it's a 'Pedestrian Area' then the symbol for 'No Waiting' followed by 'At Any Time', which means you're not allowed to wait for any period of time in the pedestrian zone.


Normally there would have to be double yellow lines on the road and NO SIGN. But in certain areas (either because yellow lines would spoil historic cobbles in an old town centre, or because yellow lines would spoil the brand new cobbles a council has spent loads of money on ) the council can apply to DfT for authority to leave off the yellow lines and instead put up the signs. So the 'yellow lines' are there and they apply to the full width of the public highway (shop front to shop front) in Northbrook St, Bart' St Market Place etc.

[spartacus]

My question about the sidewalk markings in Northbrook Street......

We ARE talking about Newbury, Berkshire rather than Newbury, Massachusetts aren't we?

[JeffG]

How long have double yellow lines without backup signage meant "at any time"? Originally they just meant "more than the working day", with actual times on the sign.

[spartacus]

The history of the humble double yellow line

Can't vouch or the accuracy. Google is your friend.

[JeffG]

The history of the humble double yellow line

Can't vouch or the accuracy. Google is your friend.

You're right. If it's a history, it's inaccurate. It also doesn't say when "no loading at any time" changed from three stripes to two.

[spartacus]

You're right. If it's a history, it's inaccurate. It also doesn't say when "no loading at any time" changed from three stripes to two.

Some Councils seems to think they still exist.... This is in Bridlington

[JeffG]

Some Councils seems to think they still exist.... This is in Bridlington

Now that is weird - not what I meant at all. I meant the kerb striping for no unloading. It seems nobody remembers what I was on about. Originally, a single yellow line meant no parking during the working day (I assume that meant 9 to 5), a double yellow meant more than the working day, and a broken single yellow line meant less than the working day. For no loading, one stripe corresponded to the broken, less than the working day restriction, two stripes equivalent to the single yellow line and three stripes equivalent to the double yellow line. I'm assuming that when they abolished the broken yellow line, the pavement markings were reduced by one.

Does anyone else remember this, and when it all changed?

And this means "No parking on the hedgehog":

[spartacus]

You sure that's not a toupée?

Re Thatcham station car park. All day parking before 10am in WBC car park is £3.00. In the Network Rail it's £3.40. After 10am all day parking is £1.60 in WBC and £2 in Network Rail.

[spartacus]

It also doesn't say when "no loading at any time" changed from three stripes to two.

AFAIK that came about as part of the revision of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions which was published in 1981. Councils or Highway Authorities, or whatever they were called then, were given a grace period but had to have the 'three blip' system removed and replaced with the new system by 1 Feb 1999 at the very latest.



Under the old system three blips was the equivalent of double yellows, 2 the equivalent of a single and 1 the equivalent of a broken yellow line.

Under the new system we only have 2 (the equivalent of the old 3) and 1 (you get the idea). The equivalent of the old 1 blip is now a marked loading bay