Incident at London Bridge, Why do Abbott and co insist on calling them "Incidents" Options

[On the edge]

I'll bet a tenner right now that the first copper who shoots and kills a terrorist without formal permission in triplicate will be in very hot water. Where can I train as a Yooman rites lawyer??

This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.

[Andy Capp]

I think he assumes "if I throw enough mud at the wall some of it might stick" Oh, and I noticed the clumsy (and seemingly) nonsensical edit.

What are you talking about?

[Turin Machine]

This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.

Absolutely. 🙈🙉🙊

[On the edge]

We'll see how it pans out. Personally I think we face the biggest threat to the West since WW2. You are either a Churchillian or a Chamberlain. Me.. I'm with Churchill.

Interesting one that! You ought to have chosen a better comparison, official papers from the time show that Chamberlain knew he'd made a big mistake at Heston in 1938. Not really surprising for a man knocking 70, who was tired after his first ever flights and a difficult meeting with Hitler. Fortunately, he recognised that and escalated putting the nation on a war footing ready for the inevitable. Just a decade or so after the worst war imaginable, the mood of the country was against and we were just crawling out of deep economic depression. War was inevitable and we all know how Churchill took over. What's often forgotten is that Chamberlain at Churchill's request stayed in the Cabinet and was one of Churchill's best supporters. At the time, the Conservatives were at best ambivalent about Churchill. He was very ill at the time and died at Heckfield quite close to here. Chamberlain had actually been a very good peacetime minister and its highly unlikely that the NHS would have been born without the reforms in health care he made in the 1930's. Sure, he had an unfortunate personal manner, but perhaps sometimes that's necessary.

It does you no credit to paint Neville Chamberlain in the way you have; he was a truly honourable and brave man. If you really do understand the history of the period, he wouldn't be far off who we need today.

[Turin Machine]

Wasting your time. These people aren't interested in truth.

You know when they've lost the argument when they start calling people who disagree "you people". 💩

[x2lls]

This is something that greatly disturbs me. Training and managing Military and Police in weapons is critical and difficult. In my view, claims of misuse should always be an internal issue. It is actually very very difficult to train someone to use a firearm with the possibility that they will be expected to take life. If it were not, then quite the wrong type of person is being deployed. Therefore, I find it utterly repugnant that we have let our legal system issue process against individuals on their own. Solicitors are supposed to be officers of the Supreme Court and not the personal hire of private individuals. We've seen one famous name collapse, it would be bad law if another rose in its place. And yes, I've been in correspondence with our MP about this; the result being quite positive.

Its well worth reading the Human Rights Act carefully and making sure your MP is well aware if you feel the legal profession are abusing their position by pursuing scurrilous claims.

Can you elaborate? What did you ask , and what was the response? It should not be a secret.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Interesting one that! You ought to have chosen a better comparison, official papers from the time show that Chamberlain knew he'd made a big mistake at Heston in 1938. Not really surprising for a man knocking 70, who was tired after his first ever flights and a difficult meeting with Hitler. Fortunately, he recognised that and escalated putting the nation on a war footing ready for the inevitable. Just a decade or so after the worst war imaginable, the mood of the country was against and we were just crawling out of deep economic depression. War was inevitable and we all know how Churchill took over. What's often forgotten is that Chamberlain at Churchill's request stayed in the Cabinet and was one of Churchill's best supporters. At the time, the Conservatives were at best ambivalent about Churchill. He was very ill at the time and died at Heckfield quite close to here. Chamberlain had actually been a very good peacetime minister and its highly unlikely that the NHS would have been born without the reforms in health care he made in the 1930's. Sure, he had an unfortunate personal manner, but perhaps sometimes that's necessary.

It does you no credit to paint Neville Chamberlain in the way you have; he was a truly honourable and brave man. If you really do understand the history of the period, he wouldn't be far off who we need today.

It was a generalisation and one that is a common view held mistakenly by many because of one poorly judged meeting with Hitler and his speech thereafter. I was aware of Chamberlains good work.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Diane Abbott... Sky News interview....😂😂😂

[je suis Charlie]

In the wake of the terror attack in Parish Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC asked Corbyn

to which Corbyn responded

So a measured proportionate response that would include deadly force if necessary, but an emphasis on working to prevent the problem ever occuring rather than a "shoot the lot of them and let god sort them out" answer that the reactionary right are agiating for.

The "shoot-to-kill" answer was a response to a different question, though Kuenssberg cut her interview together to imply otherwise. This was the question:


to which Corbyn responded as reported:


and Corbyn has further clarified his position:


So the use of deadly force when it's imperative, including shoot-to-kill, but only if it's imperitive and not in general.

Except, what Corbyn says when he's in campaign mode is not what Momentum will want if he's elected. Think of Jeremy as a glove puppet with momentum's​ hand firmly up his harris.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I'd start with anyone practicing shariah. Thats normally a good indicator. Oh and those holding up placards with things like "death to the infidels" and "make London Londonistan" Also anyone returning from a "holiday" to places like Somalia, Libya, or an extended trip to Turkey. Oh and yes profiling works.

Then Id insist on CCTV and sound in all the mosques.

It may impinge on freedoms but its a small price to pay.

And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

[je suis Charlie]

HIS OTHER TERRORIST CHUMS
In 1984, Corbyn lobbied a variety of 'Latin American cultural organisations' on behalf what he called 'comrades in the M-19 movement' in Colombia. These 'comrades', according to the Sunday Times, had car-bombed, shot, tortured and killed their way across the country in recent years.
The men accused of the Lockerbie bombing, in which 270 died, were also helped by Corbyn. In 1992, he signed a letter supporting their bid to avoid trial in either the UK or America. 'One has to ask whether they would receive a fair trial in a British or US court,' he said.
After 9/11, Corbyn wrote in the Socialist Campaign Group News, a paper for Left-wing MPs, blaming the tragedy on the West and its 'blanket support for Israel's occupation of Palestine'.
Similarly, he said America was ultimately to blame after Islamists killed 200 in Bali. 'The bomb was tragic, but it follows a history of great atrocity in Indonesia,' he wrote in 2002. 'The CIA inspired a coup in Indonesia in 1968. Hundreds of thousands of communists, socialists, trade unionists and others were executed in their homes overnight by agents of the CIA.' In fact, there was no coup in Indonesia in 1968.
In a 2009 speech, Corbyn said: 'It will be my pleasure and honour to host an event in Parliament where our friends from Hezbollah will be speaking… I've also invited our friends from Hamas to come and speak.'
Finsbury Park Mosque, where Islamist rabble-rouser Abu Hamza once preached, counts local MP Corbyn as a longstanding supporter. In 2014, he joined a group there to welcome Abdallah Djaballah — a controversial imam who has called on fellow countrymen to 'wage holy Muslim war' against Britain and the U.S.

Still think he's the right man to fight terrorism?

[x2lls]

And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

I would add, from what I read in other comments on this thread, there is an accusation of identifying terrorists by the way they look. Our security agencies are looking at digital/online activity, which will show a good more than the silly notion of what you look like. Why has the online trail not been mentioned?

[x2lls]

And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

He is not the only one, this little scumbag has appeared many times online with moronic views. (Just to bounce a clever assed reply, I mean the bearded one!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APCW7l3wFMM

Mr Robinson gets my full support and I am proud to say I have donated towards his legal fight against the establishment who want to shut him down. They are failing.

[je suis Charlie]

👍

[newres]

He is not the only one, this little scumbag has appeared many times online with moronic views. (Just to bounce a clever assed reply, I mean the bearded one!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APCW7l3wFMM

Mr Robinson gets my full support and I am proud to say I have donated towards his legal fight against the establishment who want to shut him down. They are failing.

Well it's only a small step from UKIP to the EDL.

[je suis Charlie]

Well it's only a small step from UKIP to the EDL.

Get my Lecky from them. 🙆

[Simon Kirby]

Except, what Corbyn says when he's in campaign mode is not what Momentum will want if he's elected. Think of Jeremy as a glove puppet with momentum's​ hand firmly up his harris.

I knock one smear down and you stand another one up.

[newres]

I knock one smear down and you stand another one up.

Told you.

http://bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfir...t-win-arguments

You're better off just mocking them.

[Simon Kirby]

And so it turns out that indeed this lovely terrorist was holding up black flags, appearing on C4 jihadi documentaries and holding up lovely death to the infidels placards. Booger me. Turned out he was a terrorist!!! Not toooo difficult Mr Newres.... How do we spot them? Eh????

Spotting terrorists is still not as easy as you suggest. While it may be true that fanatics and sociopaths will likely have voiced their violent ideation publicly it doesn't follow that everyone voicing violence will necessarily act on it. That chap for example who murdered Jo Cox in the street might have been neutralised if he'd been rounded up with everyone else who'd ever shared a post on Facebook from Britain First or held a banner at an EDL rally, but would that have been reasonable and proportionate? I'm not saying we should ignore expressions of violence and hatred, we shouldn't, but challenging the ignorance, fear, and prejudice, and then resolving any underlying injustice is more effective at bringing peace.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Spotting terrorists is still not as easy as you suggest. While it may be true that fanatics and sociopaths will likely have voiced their violent ideation publicly it doesn't follow that everyone voicing violence will necessarily act on it. That chap for example who murdered Jo Cox in the street might have been neutralised if he'd been rounded up with everyone else who'd ever shared a post on Facebook from Britain First or held a banner at an EDL rally, but would that have been reasonable and proportionate? I'm not saying we should ignore expressions of violence and hatred, we shouldn't, but challenging the ignorance, fear, and prejudice, and then resolving any underlying injustice is more effective at bringing peace.

What would you do with the other lovely flag wavers in that C4 documentary? Tea and biscuits and ask them to be nice?