Abbott Shmabbott Options

[Andy Capp]

True or not, this is an interesting read: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/...plicit-content/

[Simon Kirby]

Yes, read that earlier, it gives some useful perspective doesn't it.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Yes, read that earlier, it gives some useful perspective doesn't it.

Personally I think its a crock of sh1t.
Oh and its factually inaccurate.
Diane Abbott is not a "little black girl".
She is a hard nosed 30 year politician who hasn't got where she is by being "nice". Oh and she is a racist and also the worst kind of hypocrite by sending her children to fee paying schools.

And the Daily Mail and Sun talk sh1t as well.

[newres]

Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Have you seen some of the stuff May has had? Or does she "deserve" it??? Again not a fan but balance is needed.

Social media in politics is evil..

[newres]

Personally I think its a crock of sh1t.
Oh and its factually inaccurate.
Diane Abbott is not a "little black girl".
She is a hard nosed 30 year politician who hasn't got where she is by being "nice". Oh and she is a racist and also the worst kind of hypocrite by sending her children to fee paying schools.

And the Daily Mail and Sun talk sh1t as well.

She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.

[newres]

Have you seen some of the stuff May has had? Or does she "deserve" it??? Again not a fan but balance is needed.

Social media in politics is evil..

Is Theresa May called a monkey or a black Cnut?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.

https://ukipvoices.wordpress.com/2015/04/09...ate-department/

I know it is UKIP but twas a quick google. Could have found something easily on another site but couldn't be bothered.

The point is can you imagine a poster that says I will put white people first??? Can you imagine the outrage????

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Is Theresa May called a monkey or a black Cnut?

Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.

[newres]

https://ukipvoices.wordpress.com/2015/04/09...ate-department/

I know it is UKIP but twas a quick google. Could have found something easily on another site but couldn't be bothered.

The point is can you imagine a poster that says I will put white people first??? Can you imagine the outrage????

Did you read the article? Funniest thing I've read in weeks. I don't know if the poster is genuine but rather than being anti white it seems more to do with positive discrimination. I don't think that's racist. So perhaps you could find one that actually is evidence of racism.

[newres]

Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.

So there aren't references to her race then? Wasn't the whole point of my post about the racist abuse she suffers?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Did you read the article? Funniest thing I've read in weeks. I don't know if the poster is genuine but rather than being anti white it seems more to do with positive discrimination. I don't think that's racist. So perhaps you could find one that actually is evidence of racism.

Positive discrimination. You mean racism? Cos thats what that is. The sort of discrimination where you interview 2 people.. One non white and one white and you get "leaned on" by your HR department to pick the none white one, even if they are not the best candidate. Diversity. Tick...

[On the edge]

Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Yes, it's very difficult to disagree with that; particularly as there is a substantial body of evidence to show she's not alone. This stuff is generated by people who have been through our education system and live in an advanced apparently civilised nation. Numbers are far too great to put it down to mental ill health; it's simply vile behaviour, no more, no less and demonstrates that the veneer of civilisation is indeed thin. That we don't or won't take steps to elimate it is indicative of our national decline as was this recent ill natured and spiteful election campaign. Yes, I voted to leave the EU but I'm far from convinced about our future with a population like this.

[Simon Kirby]

Some of those tweets are diabolical. It may be that the stuff in th press isn't overtly racist, but it's feeding people's hate and many of the hateful tweets are based on her race. There's some loathsome people around.

Indeed.

[On the edge]

Our very confrontational style of press reporting doesn't exactly help matters - see today's Mail!

[On the edge]

Nope. As she is not black. Just cnut. B1tch. Evil. Hope she gets c@ncer and dies a slow painful death... You have to be very hard nosed to play the politic game. Nasty business.

Yes, it is very nasty indeed as you have so amply illustrated.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Yes, it is very nasty indeed as you have so amply illustrated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8fV0gFp1Pw&a...eature=youtu.be

[Andy Capp]

I think Diane Abbott is demonstrably racist, albeit a softe racist. There's the comments about black mothers, blue-eyed blonde Finnish nurses and the white man divide and rule comment. Hardly shocking, but enough to tell me what I might need to know; however, I believe in credit where it is due. She is gaff prone, but she has had an impressive career and perhaps some of her beliefs come from hard experience.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I think Diane Abbott is demonstrably racist, albeit a softe racist. There's the comments about black mothers, blue-eyed blonde Finnish nurses and the white man divide and rule comment. Hardly shocking, but enough to tell me what I might need to know; however, I believe in credit where it is due. She is gaff prone, but she has had an impressive career and perhaps some of her beliefs come from hard experience.

Agree. Nothing more to add.

[je suis Charlie]

Sick? Like she was on article 50? Yeah, rite. She'll be dancing round like a demented puppy on acid come Friday. Wonderful what you can get away with once you've slept with the boss! The truth is she got promoted to her own personal level of incompetence and now that's been exposed she's ducking back out of view. She's done a good job representing her constituents, but that's it. This is now international politics, if you can't stand the heat etc. Spinelessness, covered up by her party to get a sympathy vote and to distance themselves from a rapidly expanding disaster area.

[x2lls]

Regardless of the history of the woman, what she says now is all that matters, and that is nothing convincing.

She will be not be taking part in the election campaign for an indefinite period. What? 1.5 days?
She's more dangerous to us than Putin.

[x2lls]

She isn't racist. That's rubbish unless you have some evidence. Makes me laugh how everyone says that ex EDL person isn't racist but Diane Abbott is. Give me a break.

He isn't racist, he is anti muslim extremist. He is anti hate speech by extremist imams invited here. Islam is not a race. Your mind has been poisoned.

Makes me laugh how some read and soak up the rubbish spewed by MSM, and locals for that matter.
How on earth you can attempt to speak for a woman who is (oops, was) potentially responsible for our safety, and refused to answer a simple question is beyond me. How much more butter are you going to put under your shoes?

[Andy Capp]

It's called being open minded and willing to see both sides before making judgements. Something many on here find very difficult.

[newres]

He isn't racist, he is anti muslim extremist. He is anti hate speech by extremist imams invited here. Islam is not a race. Your mind has been poisoned.

Makes me laugh how some read and soak up the rubbish spewed by MSM, and locals for that matter.
How on earth you can attempt to speak for a woman who is (oops, was) potentially responsible for our safety, and refused to answer a simple question is beyond me. How much more butter are you going to put under your shoes?

But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights.

🇬🇧 bill of rights. Thank you. And that includes no rights for jihadis.

[On the edge]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8fV0gFp1Pw&a...eature=youtu.be

Manners maketh man.

Just because your peers and friends decend to boorish behaviour, unless you are a sheep, there is no reason to follow.

[newres]

🇬🇧 bill of rights. Thank you. And that includes no rights for jihadis.

Or we could just stop bombing them.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Or we could just stop bombing them.

Sounds like you actually feel sorry for the jihadists.

[x2lls]

But one of his campaigns is against Muslim sex offenders. Does he target Halal too? I bet he does. So he's not anti extremist, he's anti-Muslim.

Re: Diane Abbott - she's a liability. I wouldn't want her as home secretary but she'd do better than May. May's answer to terrorism? Take away our human rights.

You prove my point. YOU brought up halal. A prime example of misinformation. Watch his challenges to reporters , check out the last interview with Andrew Neil.

[je suis Charlie]

Or we could just stop bombing them.

Is this hook line and sinker? Or simply someone who doesn't understand what this jihad is all about? It's this level of sleepwalking into history that's going to get us all killed.

[newres]

Is this hook line and sinker? Or simply someone who doesn't understand what this jihad is all about? It's this level of sleepwalking into history that's going to get us all killed.

Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?

[On the edge]

Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?

Oh don't worry Newres, he's just left East Ham, so not far to go!

[x2lls]

Do you not think you might be getting a bit carried away?

The government has already sleep walked(Is that the correct term?), which is why too many known scumbags have achieved their intentions due to inaction.

[newres]

The government has already sleep walked(Is that the correct term?), which is why too many known scumbags have achieved their intentions due to inaction.

That's it then. we're all going to die. Je Suis - no point booking in booking the Toff Roader to get that dodgy radio fixed is there?

[je suis Charlie]

That's it then. we're all going to die. Je Suis - no point booking in booking the Toff Roader to get that dodgy radio fixed is there?

No need, solved some of my problems, I kept it tuned in to the BBC but all it was picking up was this annoying whiney noise. Turn out it was a Jeremy Corbyn speech. So that's all good now. 🖕

[Simon Kirby]

Or we could just stop bombing them.

Quite.

[On the edge]

No need, solved some of my problems, I kept it tuned in to the BBC but all it was picking up was this annoying whiney noise. Turn out it was a Jeremy Corbyn speech. So that's all good now. 🖕

Know what you mean, then if you want to hear a Tory, all they have left is that May woman and frankly I thought I'd heard the last of Matron when I left school. Bit of diversity would make a nice change.

[je suis Charlie]

Know what you mean, then if you want to hear a Tory, all they have left is that May woman and frankly I thought I'd heard the last of Matron when I left school. Bit of diversity would make a nice change.

Oooh matron, stick it out! 😊

[je suis Charlie]

I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.

[SirWilliam]

True or not, this is an interesting read: https://cookingonabootstrap.com/2017/06/07/...plicit-content/

What has the her colour to do with anything ? The first black this or that is irrelevant to her success . I applaud anyone who attends Oxbridge whatever their creed / colour / sex etc. but this obsession with still putting people in boxes seems counter-productive to an inclusive society .
If the archeologists are to be believed we can all trace our ancestry back to Africa so that alone should be sufficient to show we are all the same and should be thus referred .

[On the edge]

I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.

Nah, she's just following precedents in political history. Eden's 'illness' at Suez, Major's 'toothache' when Mrs Thatcher resigned. You wanted Labour to emulate the Conservative way; well, so they have!

[blackdog]

I see she's miraculously better, JC probably laid his healing hands on her. He'll be getting the blind to see and the lame to walk next. Labour, cheap tricks are us.

Hardly a miracle to sort out blood sugar levels these days.

[Andy Capp]

I have hunch she has confused her numbers again. Usually type 2 have different symptoms than type 1.

[Turin Machine]

3 2 1 and she's back in the room! 🤔

[SirWilliam]

You can't keep a good woman down ..........But damned good fun trying

[Berkshirelad]

I have hunch she has confused her numbers again. Usually type 2 have different symptoms than type 1.

I agree - I have Type 2; you can't get a hypo with type 2.

[gel]

Perhaps she has Type 3 just for minority groups.

[Turin Machine]

Perhaps she has Type 3 just for minority groups.

Diabetes hasn't stopped Theresa May, perhaps she has a special Tory type? 🤔

[gel]

Diabetes hasn't stopped Theresa May, perhaps she has a special Tory type? 🤔

She's never used as an excuse to prevent her doing her job, to my knowledge.

[On the edge]

Perhaps we need an MP 'person profile', those responsible keep getting wrong 'uns. Here is a starter for 10.

Must

1. agree wholeheartedly with all the party aims, objectives, manifesto pledges.
2. be able to calculate to six decimal places on the spot
3. not have made any even vaguely non populist decisions in the past
4. have absolutely no personal faith or convictions
5. offer resignation whenever implicated unpopular decisions or campaigns
6. become ill or unwell
7. humbly renounce any personal convictions if called to do so
8. not have taken proscribed drugs (subject to reversal shortly)
9. not have deemed unusual sex life

[Turin Machine]

Perhaps we need an MP 'person profile', those responsible keep getting wrong 'uns. Here is a starter for 10.

Must

1. agree wholeheartedly with all the party aims, objectives, manifesto pledges.
2. be able to calculate to six decimal places on the spot
3. not have made any even vaguely non populist decisions in the past
4. have absolutely no personal faith or convictions
5. offer resignation whenever implicated unpopular decisions or campaigns
6. become ill or unwell
7. humbly renounce any personal convictions if called to do so
8. not have taken proscribed drugs (subject to reversal shortly)
9. not have deemed unusual sex life

That'll do. Sort of Emmanuel Macron.

[blackdog]

Abbot may well be spouting the truth that she lost control of her blood sugar owing the the pressure of the campaign. That said, it's not eactly making her a good choice for a high pressure cabinet post!

[Turin Machine]

Abbot may well be spouting the truth that she lost control of her blood sugar owing the the pressure of the campaign. That said, it's not eactly making her a good choice for a high pressure cabinet post!

She said she hadn't been eating enough. O Rly..

[je suis Charlie]

The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.

[SirWilliam]

The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.

I am a little concerned JSC that you are spending time trawling through social media to track down snippets of despair as pontificated by the " Honourable "Member for Hackney North.
She is quickly becoming to the Corbin election push what Arthur Scargill was to the Blair effort . Campbell silenced him pretty effectively and I foresee a similar fate being visited on Ms Abbott .
Meanwhile we have to cringe every time she opens her mouth.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I am a little concerned JSC that you are spending time trawling through social media to track down snippets of despair as pontificated by the " Honourable "Member for Hackney North.
She is quickly becoming to the Corbin election push what Arthur Scargill was to the Blair effort . Campbell silenced him pretty effectively and I foresee a similar fate being visited on Ms Abbott .
Meanwhile we have to cringe every time she opens her mouth.

At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂

[je suis Charlie]

At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂

Gahh! The sheer thought of that has just had me reaching for a bucket.

[Turin Machine]

The words 'foot' and 'mouth' spring to mind, Oh Dianne, if you don't know what you're talking about its sometimes better to stay off the media.

"Speaking in a video posted on her official social media accounts, the Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington said: "I believe in votes at 16. If you're old enough to fight for your country, you are old enough to vote."

Except of course she's wrong, again. Couldn't make it up.

Numbers never were her strongest skill.

[SirWilliam]

At least she has not been approached by some sleazy conservative mp..... 😂

How do you know ? She may well be a femme fatale in the murky corridors of Westminster . After all she has to be good at something

[Andy Capp]

It demonstrates one of the snags with our democracy: popularity doesn’t guarantee quality.

[newres]

Gahh! The sheer thought of that has just had me reaching for a bucket.

I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

[je suis Charlie]

I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

Just like one of Pavlov's dogs, just can't resist can you?

[SirWilliam]

I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

If "Charlie " is female you may well be deemed to be trying to chat her up in an unacceptable manner , should his name be derived from Charles then , well we live in enlightened times .
May I suggest JSC that you are actually an asexual hermaphrodite who just has differing views from newres .

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I’ll bet you are drop dead gorgeous.

Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂

[SirWilliam]

Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂

[newres]

Just like one of Pavlov's dogs, just can't resist can you?

I just think it's sexist and juvenile to refer to a woman's looks when they are a total irrelevance. Especially when nine times out of ten the man making the reference is a FUB.

[je suis Charlie]

I just think it's sexist and juvenile to refer to a woman's looks when they are a total irrelevance. Especially when nine times out of ten the man making the reference is a FUB.

My middle name happens to be Adonis, so that's Mr Adonis, Titan of industry to you, little man.

[je suis Charlie]

Im hetrosexual but if it was a choice between je suis and Abbott then I'm afraid je suis you had better get the vaseline out.😂

Wot? No flowers or chocolates first?

[newres]

My middle name happens to be Adonis, so that's Mr Adonis, Titan of industry to you, little man.

More Like Mr Adonner - fat and greasy.

[je suis Charlie]

More Like Mr Adonner - fat and greasy.

Whilst you are the epitome of meringue, lots of fluff, very little substance.

[Turin Machine]

Boys! Play nice now!

[SirWilliam]

In the ongoing bun fight between TDH / je suis Charlie and newres the self appointed referee has declared a draw and urge both sides to take a break from hostilities .
Come on boys and girls kiss and make up .

[TallDarkAndHands...]

In the ongoing bun fight between TDH / je suis Charlie and newres the self appointed referee has declared a draw and urge both sides to take a break from hostilities .
Come on boys and girls kiss and make up .

Bun fight? Just a bit of fun old boy. Gotta liven this forum up some how. 😂 newres has a right to air his views. Even if he is barking mad. I predicted Trump and Brexit whilst the likes of newres can't understand it. I do think Britain is ripe for a new political party. I just wished I could persuade one of my black colleagues to answer this countries call. He is the nicest fella I know with a keen interest in politics. Problem is he would have to take a pay cut, even if he were PM.

[je suis Charlie]

Wouldn't get out of bed for that salary.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Wouldn't get out of bed for that salary.

Thats half the problem. You should get a FTSE100 CEO salary. Its a bl00dy difficult and much more important job. The PM should get a million a year. Minimum. Business dictates that sort of salary to get the best people so why not the PM?

[SirWilliam]

Thats half the problem. You should get a FTSE100 CEO salary. Its a bl00dy difficult and much more important job. The PM should get a million a year. Minimum. Business dictates that sort of salary to get the best people so why not the PM?

Because simply she/he is not the best person for the job . Ask any successful business person if they fancy running the Country and they will politely enquire if you have been certified .I don't know how we get away this continual merry-go-round of party politics .
Any ideas forumites ?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Because simply she/he is not the best person for the job . Ask any successful business person if they fancy running the Country and they will politely enquire if you have been certified .I don't know how we get away this continual merry-go-round of party politics .
Any ideas forumites ?

Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...

[newres]

Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...

I agree with much of that. PR and state funding of political parties would solve a lot of the problems. Not sure pay would make much difference although it should be more.

[Mr Brown]

Quite easy.

1. Abolish the House of Lords.
2. Reduce the number of MPs to 250.
3. Pay them a lot more.
4. Abolish all political parties.
5. Create new parties. One left. One Centre left
One Centre right. One Right.
6. Get PR up and running.
7. Get rid of the speaker as an MP.
8. The House of Westmister should be a museum. Get a proper office for the MPs.

Just a few ideas...

Arguably, what's here demonstrates it wouldn't be easy!

They've been trying to abolish the Lords since 1910 and if it was easy, would have done so by now.

MP numbers are being reduced, but our political system itself probably inhibits much more of a reduction.

They are paid reasonably well. The real issue is the massive imbalance with executive salaries which were driven up by the bankers ramp. It's these causing the issue as the Governments own think tanks agree.

Not much point in abolishing parties, just to come up with four more of the same type. Vis Left; Labour, centre left; LibDem, centre right; conservative, right; UKIP.

PR is up and running, but again, 'PR' or spin is probably one of the biggest issues. Making PR or party information keep the same rules as commercial advertising might help.

Not sure having the speaker as an employee would make much difference.

Moving out of the building won't save the refurbishment costs, if you want to keep it as a museum. Might as well keep using it, it's more than adequate in reality.

I'd argue the problem is national one. We've replaced words like integrity, probity, and service, with just one - greed. Be that greed for money or personal gratification

[newres]

Arguably, what's here demonstrates it wouldn't be easy!

They've been trying to abolish the Lords since 1910 and if it was easy, would have done so by now.

MP numbers are being reduced, but our political system itself probably inhibits much more of a reduction.

They are paid reasonably well. The real issue is the massive imbalance with executive salaries which were driven up by the bankers ramp. It's these causing the issue as the Governments own think tanks agree.

Not much point in abolishing parties, just to come up with four more of the same type. Vis Left; Labour, centre left; LibDem, centre right; conservative, right; UKIP.

PR is up and running, but again, 'PR' or spin is probably one of the biggest issues. Making PR or party information keep the same rules as commercial advertising might help.

Not sure having the speaker as an employee would make much difference.

Moving out of the building won't save the refurbishment costs, if you want to keep it as a museum. Might as well keep using it, it's more than adequate in reality.

I'd argue the problem is national one. We've replaced words like integrity, probity, and service, with just one - greed. Be that greed for money or personal gratification

PR = Proportional representation, not public relations.

[Mr Brown]

PR = Proportional representation, not public relations.

The problem with sound bite shorthand illustrated at a stroke.

It's a bit ironic really, but it was EU 'party list' type proportional representation that did for me. We ended up with a bunch of unknown chancers who had little connect with their constituencies, still less with their electors. As the EU demonstrates, it makes for poor government.

[SirWilliam]

PR is the obvious route but how do you get a diverse cross section of opinion to agree on anything ? When the Greeks developed democracy they abandoned it almost as quickly because it took 3 months to decide who was going to make the tea .
What we need are those who stand for office to approach their position with a view to the good of the Country and not the minority pressure groups that see fit to court favour . This would negate the need for an upper house at a stroke .

[Mr Brown]

PR is the obvious route but how do you get a diverse cross section of opinion to agree on anything ? When the Greeks developed democracy they abandoned it almost as quickly because it took 3 months to decide who was going to make the tea .
What we need are those who stand for office to approach their position with a view to the good of the Country and not the minority pressure groups that see fit to court favour . This would negate the need for an upper house at a stroke .

The trouble is, of course, with PR you inevitably end up with rule by minority pressure groups. A rainbow coalitions in power for decades.

[newres]

The trouble is, of course, with PR you inevitably end up with rule by minority pressure groups.

Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?

[Andy Capp]

Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?

UK.

[Mr Brown]

Got any examples of minority pressure groups ruling countries?

Italy.

[newres]

UK.

Exactly the example I thought of. And no PR,

[Mr Brown]

The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.

[newres]

The UK certainly isn't ruled by minority pressure groups, even though it might seem so on occasions. Of course pressure groups try and often succeed in influencing party policy; but party still rules. As we saw in the previous coalition, the LibDems had quite limited effect on government policy. In this government, the Unionists are actually a breed of Tory.

UKIP.

We are exiting Europe because of a pressure group stealing votes from the tories.
.

[Mr Brown]

UKIP.

We are exiting Europe because of a pressure group stealing votes from the tories.
.

UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

[Andy Capp]

UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

Religious groups, the food industry, the media, bankers and other wealthy entities are or have pressure groups which determine how we live our lives.

[SirWilliam]

The list is endless; maybe they should form a new political party

[newres]

UKIP, was really no more than an irritant. The Conservatives took us out of Europe because they'd never settled the fundamental question properly themselves. What the leaders of the party espouse is not always in line with the majority of their supporters. Conservative discontent about Europe hadn't dropped since their leadership took us in.

UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.

[SirWilliam]

UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.

You are quite correct . Had Cameron not panicked over the thought of millions of disillusioned Tories changing their allegiance to Farage and his "bovver boys " , ( like that was ever going to happen ) , the referendum would never have been called and everyone in the Country would still be friends with their neighbours .Of course his second and even bigger mistake was not gauging the amount of anti European sentiment and loathing for a federalist overlord the populace at large held.
Of course UKIP / Johnson / Gove et al claim the credit but in all honesty if they had sodded off to Mars for the duration the outcome would have been the same , all we have to do now is convince a lot of other people that , rightly or wrongly , it is a fait accompli .

[je suis Charlie]

UKIP is the reason we had the referendum. No UKIP, no referendum. The Tories stuck it in the manifesto to shore up their vote which was deserting to UKIP.

Yay!!

[Mr Brown]

You are quite correct . Had Cameron not panicked over the thought of millions of disillusioned Tories changing their allegiance to Farage and his "bovver boys " , ( like that was ever going to happen ) , the referendum would never have been called and everyone in the Country would still be friends with their neighbours .Of course his second and even bigger mistake was not gauging the amount of anti European sentiment and loathing for a federalist overlord the populace at large held.
Of course UKIP / Johnson / Gove et al claim the credit but in all honesty if they had sodded off to Mars for the duration the outcome would have been the same , all we have to do now is convince a lot of other people that , rightly or wrongly , it is a fait accompli .

Not a bad synopsys. The Tories have never been committed to Europe, as we saw very plainly in both Mrs Thatcher and Mr Major's time. Like it or not, the Country is traditionally Tory, so arguably, the anti Tory MPs have always been attuned to popular opinion. I'd certainly agree that with or without UKIP, the referendum result would have been the same. The Tories saw the Europe issue as a constant running sore in the party and that's what Cameron was trying to cover. Arguably putting party before country; another Tory trait!

If we are looking to apportion blame for the referendum result, I'd argue that the EU executive and Euro MEPs were the real culprits - 40 years of failing to get a positive message across.

[Turin Machine]

This is something the French do very well, everywhere you go there are large renewal schemes, village and town squares, new bridges etc all accompanied with a massive great sign saying whats been done, how much it cost and how many millions came from Europe. The French are left in no doubt as to what they are getting. Good PR job.

[newres]

Not a bad synopsys. The Tories have never been committed to Europe, as we saw very plainly in both Mrs Thatcher and Mr Major's time. Like it or not, the Country is traditionally Tory, so arguably, the anti Tory MPs have always been attuned to popular opinion. I'd certainly agree that with or without UKIP, the referendum result would have been the same. The Tories saw the Europe issue as a constant running sore in the party and that's what Cameron was trying to cover. Arguably putting party before country; another Tory trait!

If we are looking to apportion blame for the referendum result, I'd argue that the EU executive and Euro MEPs were the real culprits - 40 years of failing to get a positive message across.

I 100% disagree with almost all of that. Certainly the EU isn’t perfect. Neither is our own parliament/democracy. Look what’s happening now with the “sex” scandals. Ludicrous. Look at the unelected Lords. Look at lobbying scandals and so on. I think people understood that. What UKIP did was to shift the blame for everything to the EU including refugees from Syria which if anything are a product of US and UK interference in the Middle East.

Thatcher and Major weren’t anti EU. What about Maastricht? I’m not sure what the exact split is on Brexit but it wouldn’t surprise me if the majority of Tiry MPs weren’t remainers. I’m quite prepared to be wrong on that. You are probably right though that a majority of party members voted for Brexit, but given the age demographic and the nationalistic slant of the tories that’s no surprise.

[Turin Machine]

From the independent;

"Mr Cameron and the political class in general underestimated the groundswell of public resentment caused by the influx of European migrants to the country since accession of Eastern European countries in the early 2000s.

To begin with Polish plumbers, builders, waitresses and bar staff were generally welcomed. But the financial crash of 2008 and the fall in living standards it resulted in stoked resentments which politicians from all three major parties were too slow to recognise and respond to."

So, yes, while it is true that the catalyst for this was ukip and it's growing influence on voters feelings and concerns all they did was to merely ride along on the growing groundswell.
And let's not forget a significant amount of 'leave' vote came from Northern working class areas, traditional labour territories so the conservative electorate is not entirely to blame.
The major 'stay' vote was in the London region which is high in liberals, fortunately it wasn't enough. Maybe if more millennials and hipsters had got off their ***** to vote it might have turned out differently. Who knows.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

From the independent;

"Mr Cameron and the political class in general underestimated the groundswell of public resentment caused by the influx of European migrants to the country since accession of Eastern European countries in the early 2000s.

To begin with Polish plumbers, builders, waitresses and bar staff were generally welcomed. But the financial crash of 2008 and the fall in living standards it resulted in stoked resentments which politicians from all three major parties were too slow to recognise and respond to."

So, yes, while it is true that the catalyst for this was ukip and it's growing influence on voters feelings and concerns all they did was to merely ride along on the growing groundswell.
And let's not forget a significant amount of 'leave' vote came from Northern working class areas, traditional labour territories so the conservative electorate is not entirely to blame.
The major 'stay' vote was in the London region which is high in liberals, fortunately it wasn't enough. Maybe if more millennials and hipsters had got off their ***** to vote it might have turned out differently. Who knows.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41893598

😂😂