Fighting at Newbury Carnival, Trouble after the carnival. Options

[Roost]

Again Iommi, I'm with you. I hate to sound like a sycophant but Newbury, along with many other towns and cities has suffered from this for a lot of years now. It is nothing new. What is new is the young age of those involved and the increase in reporting it via this and other media. A minor disorder many years ago would have likely as not have gone unreported in the local media. Also new is this attitude against the police. I truely believe that most police would like to be doing something about things like this. I do not think I could do their job if I were to join today, and neither would I want to....!

[Iommi]

I think there might be another factor involved. Many of us might have more to lose now than in the past. A large amount of people own their own house, which is kitted out with all the latest electronic stuff. To this end, I think people feel more vulnerable.

My view is, if one could metaphorically collect all the 'units' of ill-doing and put them in a container, we probably would have the same size container as we did in the past (in proportion to the population), it just might be that the contents would look a bit different today.

One other thing, we must all not underestimate the power of the TV over us and our children.

[Bloggo]

Again Iommi, I'm with you. I hate to sound like a sycophant but Newbury, along with many other towns and cities has suffered from this for a lot of years now. It is nothing new. What is new is the young age of those involved and the increase in reporting it via this and other media. A minor disorder many years ago would have likely as not have gone unreported in the local media. Also new is this attitude against the police. I truely believe that most police would like to be doing something about things like this. I do not think I could do their job if I were to join today, and neither would I want to....!

Well Roost, Iommi, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with how things are.
Personally having had my garage broken into and in another separate incidence my house, both events receiving a very lazy response from the police I do feel at risk.
Also my daughter was assaulted in Newbury.
Worse still is that if I protect myself then I will be treated worse than the criminal yet the police, who I pay a contribution to, won't or can't protect me.
You'll forgive me if I am a little put out.

[GMR]

Well Roost, Iommi, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with how things are.
Personally having had my garage broken into and in another separate incidence my house, both events receiving a very lazy response from the police I do feel at risk.
Also my daughter was assaulted in Newbury.
Worse still is that if I protect myself then I will be treated worse than the criminal yet the police, who I pay a contribution to, won't or can't protect me.
You'll forgive me if I am a little put out.

I am not comfortable the way things are and I blame the police, courts and the government. Blair said he would be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" when he came into power and all he has done is give the trouble makers more power and has made them feel invincible. Where I live it is the worst I've seen it since I've lived there. The town is also worse and speak to other people about other parts of Newbury it is not that much better.

[Bloggo]

I am not comfortable the way things are and I blame the police, courts and the government. Blair said he would be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" when he came into power and all he has done is give the trouble makers more power and has made them feel invincible. Where I live it is the worst I've seen it since I've lived there. The town is also worse and speak to other people about other parts of Newbury it is not that much better.

Blair and the Labour Government have fed us bull**** for the last 10 years. Their focus has been on making money for themselves and abusing their positions for their own personal advantage. They don't really care about the average man in the street.
GMR, I agree with your observations. Turnpike, Greenham, Thatcham are becoming unpleasant areas to live in.
But I'm sure there are others who disagree and they are entitled to their opinion and I really hope they are proved right in time.
I myself doubt it and see things getting worse.

[dannyboy]

there are lies, **** lies & statistics.

It was reported a few years back that the UK had the worst human rights record of any EU country. But that was only because the UK was the only EU country which had actually returned the EU census on human rights. The French for example had never bothered with the census.

I'll bet £££X that the UK interpretation of Violent Crime, from this source, includes all amnner of events not counted by other countries.

[GMR]

there are lies, **** lies & statistics.

It was reported a few years back that the UK had the worst human rights record of any EU country. But that was only because the UK was the only EU country which had actually returned the EU census on human rights. The French for example had never bothered with the census.

I'll bet £££X that the UK interpretation of Violent Crime, from this source, includes all amnner of events not counted by other countries.

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics” which I think you meant to say. Said by Benjamin Disraeli. And he was right.

It doesn’t matter whether we are at the top of the heap or the bottom we have a problem and it needs sorting out.

Did anybody see the Panorama programme on Monday? Where the police were behaving like Gestapo; that would be fine if they are using their full force against criminals or yobs, unfortunately they are using the strong arm of the law against innocent and peaceful protesters. Using laws that were meant for terrorists against people who have a right to protest. Somewhere along the line the police got their priorities all wrong.

[dannyboy]

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics” which I think you meant to say. Said by Benjamin Disraeli. And he was right.

It doesn’t matter whether we are at the top of the heap or the bottom we have a problem and it needs sorting out.

Did anybody see the Panorama programme on Monday? Where the police were behaving like Gestapo; that would be fine if they are using their full force against criminals or yobs, unfortunately they are using the strong arm of the law against innocent and peaceful protesters. Using laws that were meant for terrorists against people who have a right to protest. Somewhere along the line the police got their priorities all wrong.

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

[GMR]

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

[GMR]

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

That wouldn't surprise me. The worst offenders are the governments of the world.

[dannyboy]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

European Union = Hitler??

[dannyboy]

That wouldn't surprise me. The worst offenders are the governments of the world.

So in that case you can didmiss the claim that the UK is a violent country.

[GMR]

So in that case you can didmiss the claim that the UK is a violent country.

I never said it was a violent country, however, I did say it wouldn’t surprise me if it was. Secondly; even if the government lies that doesn’t mean we haven’t got a problem; we have.

[GMR]

European Union = Hitler??

Hitler wanted to achieve a single European country (under one central government), a single -currency etc. We are not there totally yet; but we are on our way.

[Iommi]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

Because what we have now is nothing like what he had in mind, so I disagree with your (albeit a quite common) statement.

[blackdog]

England has the HIGHEST rate of violent crime now in the World.
We are above South Africa and Columbia.

At least we come first in something.......

Perhaps we are actually just better at reporting and recording violent crime than anywhere else?

Look at the murder rates:

1. Columbia - 61.78 murders per 100,000 population
2. South Africa - 49.60

24. USA - 4.28

40. France - 1.73

46. UK - 1.40

I think I would rather be here than Columbia.

Figures from www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[GMR]

Because what we have now is nothing like what he had in mind, yours is an absurd, albeit quite common, statement.

I didn’t say it was exactly like that and also there was an element of tongue-in-cheek. Why do you take everything so literally or do you have problems distinguishing between irony and factual? You are becoming quite predictable of late. You are like a rabbit caught between the bright lights.

Another Hitler - as he was -could never come again. However, if somebody wanted to achieve such goals they would have to go down a different route. Hitler wanted one government to rule over Europe. Fact; over 80% of our laws are made in Europe. Europe has a single currency. Hitler was in the process of achieving that. We are coming more controlled than we ever were; Hitler wanted that. I could go on. Any historian worth is his salt will tell you that we are going down a very dangerous route. I suggest you engage your brain before putting pen to paper. I study history among other things so I do know what I am talking about; you don’t. Your only motive - it seems - is to jump in with both feet.

Why do you think we have a very large movement in this country that is against Europe? Even Churchill was dead against the European Union. "For the Europeans," he said, "not for us." I suggest you stop showing your true colours and think before your act.

[Iommi]

I didn’t say it was exactly like that and also there was an element of tongue-in-cheek.

If so then would you please use a smiley, you usually do when you post one of your jokes.

Why do you take everything so literally or do you have problems distinguishing between irony and factual? You are becoming quite predictable of late. You are like a rabbit caught between the bright lights.

It didn't take long for you to start hurling insults, just because I criticised one of your points of view. I regret bitterly that you so quickly become abusive and condescending at any criticism (from me).

Another Hitler - as he was -could never come again. However, if somebody wanted to achieve such goals they would have to go down a different route. Hitler wanted one government to rule over Europe. Fact; over 80% of our laws are made in Europe. Europe has a single currency. Hitler was in the process of achieving that. We are coming more controlled than we ever were; Hitler wanted that. I could go on. Any historian worth is his salt will tell you that we are going down a very dangerous route. I suggest you engage your brain before putting pen to paper. I study history among other things so I do know what I am talking about; you don’t. Your only motive - it seems - is to jump in with both feet.

The thing is though, the way the EU go about their business to unify Europe is a lot more peaceful than Adolf's method. I must say also, you are in danger of winning the Godwin's Law award.

Why do you think we have a very large movement in this country that is against Europe? Even Churchill was dead against the European Union. "For the Europeans," he said, "not for us." I suggest you stop showing your true colours and think before your act.

I won't try telling you how to post. It also seems that you have no wish to debate rationally and with any sense of decorum, so I'll leave this here for anyone else to decide.

[scott]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

Create a "super race" of 6ft tall blonde people and wipe out the jewish population?

So thats what they do in Brussels!

[GMR]

If so then would you please use a smiley, you usually do when you post one of your jokes.

Actually not everybody uses smilies when they use irony; why just pick on me? Unless it is personal.

It didn't take long for you to start hurling insults, just because I criticised one of your points of view. I regret bitterly that you so quickly become abusive and condescending at any criticism (from me).

I wasn’t abusive but I stated as I saw things and going by your other troll like posts. You seem to target certain people and don’t treat everybody the same. If you were fair and just then I wouldn’t mind.

The thing is though, the way the EU go about their business to unify Europe is a lot more peaceful than Adolf's method.

I totally agree with you and didn’t I actually say something similar? Try reading my post, instead of trying to find something to use against me all the time; that way we might have a more intelligent debate.

I won't try telling you how to post. It also seems that you have no wish to debate rationally and with any sense of decorum, so I'll leave this here for anyone else to decide.

A case of the pot calling the kettle black. I do wish to debate rationally, it is you who is more interested in trying to find faults that are not actually there, but in your mind.

I also agree about letting others decide; forums are not just about debates, but others observing and making their own mind up. I am happy to be judged.

A bit of advice; don’t jump in with both feet in the hope of scoring points; find out what the person is trying to say if you are unable to work it out yourself. That way you might find out it is not as you first thought.

Regards,

Glenn