First Great Western Options

[On the edge]

What a ridiculous comment!
Of course everyone is checked at a supermarket when they pay at the checkout.
Try walking out of Tescos without paying for a loaf of bread and see what the security guard says!! (Followed by the police if you refuse to cooperate).
Most of the time that is exactly what people do on the Kennet Line because there are no ticket checks at stations or on trains after 12:00.
I cannot understand why you, as an honest, fare paying passenger, would object to checks to ensure that those who would not pay at your expense do not get away with it.

Right, lets get this straight. The vast majority of train passengers are honest, clean and decent. If the railway company are stupid enough not to have on board checking staff, simple and easily understood ticket pricing policies then they deserve all they get.

In this day and age, quite apart from bad customer service it is simply foul manners, if not inhuman to simply 'round people up' and aggressively demand to see tickets as people exit. No other business operation would get away with this or even dare to try - no matter what assumed provocation from their customers.

The people presently responsible for managing these aspects of the railway operation should not be let anywhere near the customers until they've been properly retrained and if possible educated.

I was simply using Tesco as an example - frankly a good one - exactly the same situation prevails - but Tesco staff are actually vigilant. Of course they have rouges in their shops - but managed on a case by case basis.

You suggest there may be times when FGW don't have staff on shift to do the checking! If this really was a problem - they would soo find the staff. In any event, that's an incredible statement - do the Police shut down in the early evening?

So then, I'd argue that your 'anti customer' mind set is rather more ridiculous. Think about it - put yourself in the customers shoes for a moment. And no, I don't like anyone getting away without paying - but I dislike even more a management lifting large salaries out of the business yet failing to deliver. That goes on, unabated, day after day.

[Richard Garvie]

My example about conductors:

Since moving to the Co-op bank in July, I am still yet to recieve my pin number (yes, I have chased it up). Frequently travelling on trains at various times of the day, if the office is open at Thatcham, the guy will swipe to authorise. If it's closed, I have to buy my ticket at Paddington so they can authorise my card by swipe. I have now been met at Paddington TWICE by the police, after inspectors accused me of boarding the train with the intention of not buying a ticket (alledgedly). On both occasions, the conductor was forced to admit that I had made it clear what my problem was with my card, and no further action was taken. I then went and bought my ticket on both occasions, so what's the problem? Mainly the embarrassment of being met by the police and having to explain myself various times to the guard on the train and being made to feel like a criminal. There was no need for it, and if the guard had really wanted too, he could have rang up FGW and did a manual authorisation on the phone.

As for co-op railways, I think it would be a really good idea, much better than nationalisation in the old sense. Labour didn't do enough on railway regulation, hopefully the new Government will do more.

[Bartholomew]

Right, lets get this straight. The vast majority of train passengers are honest, clean and decent. If the railway company are stupid enough not to have on board checking staff, simple and easily understood ticket pricing policies then they deserve all they get.

Sounds good except that the "honest, clean and decent" people end up paying extra for those that aren't as honest.

In this day and age, quite apart from bad customer service it is simply foul manners, if not inhuman to simply 'round people up' and aggressively demand to see tickets as people exit. No other business operation would get away with this or even dare to try - no matter what assumed provocation from their customers.

Except for the NHS (surgeries, hospitals and clinics all have the same approach of treating their "customers" like sheep), the underground (which allows exit but you still have to validate your Oyster card or pay a penaly), air travel (airports and some airlines treat people like sheep also).
I don't think that train travel is really an exception but the trouble is that what they offer is expensive and not a pleasant experience.

[Biker1]

My example about conductors:

Since moving to the Co-op bank in July, I am still yet to recieve my pin number (yes, I have chased it up). Frequently travelling on trains at various times of the day, if the office is open at Thatcham, the guy will swipe to authorise. If it's closed, I have to buy my ticket at Paddington so they can authorise my card by swipe. I have now been met at Paddington TWICE by the police, after inspectors accused me of boarding the train with the intention of not buying a ticket (alledgedly). On both occasions, the conductor was forced to admit that I had made it clear what my problem was with my card, and no further action was taken. I then went and bought my ticket on both occasions, so what's the problem? Mainly the embarrassment of being met by the police and having to explain myself various times to the guard on the train and being made to feel like a criminal. There was no need for it, and if the guard had really wanted too, he could have rang up FGW and did a manual authorisation on the phone.

As for co-op railways, I think it would be a really good idea, much better than nationalisation in the old sense. Labour didn't do enough on railway regulation, hopefully the new Government will do more.

Richard, before you board a train you should have a valid ticket or a valid means to pay if there are no facilities to buy at the station.
This is your responsibility, not the train company's

[Vodabury]

My example about conductors:

Since moving to the Co-op bank in July, I am still yet to recieve my pin number (yes, I have chased it up). Frequently travelling on trains at various times of the day, if the office is open at Thatcham, the guy will swipe to authorise. If it's closed, I have to buy my ticket at Paddington so they can authorise my card by swipe. I have now been met at Paddington TWICE by the police, after inspectors accused me of boarding the train with the intention of not buying a ticket (alledgedly). On both occasions, the conductor was forced to admit that I had made it clear what my problem was with my card, and no further action was taken. I then went and bought my ticket on both occasions, so what's the problem? Mainly the embarrassment of being met by the police and having to explain myself various times to the guard on the train and being made to feel like a criminal. There was no need for it, and if the guard had really wanted too, he could have rang up FGW and did a manual authorisation on the phone.

As for co-op railways, I think it would be a really good idea, much better than nationalisation in the old sense. Labour didn't do enough on railway regulation, hopefully the new Government will do more.

Richard, you say you are a frequent traveller and understand that you need a PIN to use your Co-op card on a train in order to buy a ticket. I have to say, common sense would suggest that if you do not have a PIN for this card, then you have an alternative method of payment at your disposal. The "problem" is that the train conductor and the police may suspect (I am sure wrongly in your case) that if not stopped and challenged, you would not have bothered to buy a ticket. This may be especially so as they have now stopped you twice! They may not be so understanding next time!. Good luck. Rgds

[Andy Capp]

Richard, before you board a train you should have a valid ticket or a valid means to pay if there are no facilities to buy at the station. This is your responsibility, not the train company's

So if you cannot get the ticket you are entitles to, that is the customers fault? Your attitude seems analogous to that of the train operators, and probably explains why customer care is in the basement.

[Biker1]

So if you cannot get the ticket you are entitles to, that is the customers fault? Your attitude seems analogous to that of the train operators, and probably explains why customer care is in the basement.

You CAN get the ticket you are entitled to if you have the means to pay.
Read the post.
I am just explaining that in the case of rail travel, as is the case with every other purchase anywhere, you should either pay or have the means to pay.
Why is it these days that few seem to take responsibility for their on actions?

[Andy Capp]

You CAN get the ticket you are entitled to if you have the means to pay.
Read the post.
I am just explaining that in the case of rail travel, as is the case with every other purchase anywhere, you should either pay or have the means to pay.
Why is it these days that few seem to take responsibility for their on actions?

You seem blind to what people are saying, no-one is contesting what you say, but just like the train operators, you are ignoring the complaints people are making. Richard Garvie does have the means but sometimes the train operators contrive to make it difficult to do the right thing. I also suggest that one has to be of above average intelligence to use the ticket machines and get it right.

[Jayjay]

Richard, you say you are a frequent traveller and understand that you need a PIN to use your Co-op card on a train in order to buy a ticket. I have to say, common sense would suggest that if you do not have a PIN for this card, then you have an alternative method of payment at your disposal. The "problem" is that the train conductor and the police may suspect (I am sure wrongly in your case) that if not stopped and challenged, you would not have bothered to buy a ticket. This may be especially so as they have now stopped you twice! They may not be so understanding next time!. Good luck. Rgds

Swipe and sign is a legitimate way to pay. Most unsighted people pay this way, so very surprised ticket sellers on trains are unabble to offer this service.

[Vodabury]

Swipe and sign is a legitimate way to pay.

I do not disagree. I still have an old non-chip storecard and have to supply a John Hancock every time I use it.

I do not know why, but it appears from what we are told FGW do not accept a "swipe and sign" on a train.

So, until Richard gets his PIN, having an alternative means of payment would simply prevent the inconvenience and embarrassment he has complained of.

Rgds

[Berkshirelad]

I do not know why, but it appears from what we are told FGW do not accept a "swipe and sign" on a train.

I don't believe that they can refuse in this way as a condition of the agreement with the merchant services provider. They would need to accept signature anyway as a back-up should the PIN machine fail.

I do not, however, doubt that FGW are telling people that they can't use signature. The difference is that the liability for a 'wrong' chip & PIN transaction lies with the customer; whilst for swipe and sign it lies with the merchant

[Richard Garvie]

I don't believe that they can refuse in this way as a condition of the agreement with the merchant services provider. They would need to accept signature anyway as a back-up should the PIN machine fail.

I do not, however, doubt that FGW are telling people that they can't use signature. The difference is that the liability for a 'wrong' chip & PIN transaction lies with the customer; whilst for swipe and sign it lies with the merchant

Some conductors let you sign, some ring up for authorisation, some ask you to pay when you get to Paddington (or get off at Reading and they can swipe / authorise there). As there is no co-op anywhere but Reading locally, sometimes it is hard to ensure you have cash in your pocket (enough for a rail ticket anyway) and you have no choice but to pay at your destination.

It's not about boarding without a valid ticket, if you can't physically buy your ticket at Thatcham, the law says you can pay either at your destination and / or a suitable interchange station. The police are more critical than I am about the way the conductors act, and it's not like I have ever refused to pay for my travel. I reordered a pin last week so hopefully it arrives soon!!!

[scott]

Just as an FYI richard, i used to bank with Smile (part of the Co-OP) and they offer all counter services such as withdrawalls, paying in etc at the post office counter.

hope that helps! ;-)

[James_Trinder]

My example about conductors:

Since moving to the Co-op bank in July, I am still yet to recieve my pin number (yes, I have chased it up). Frequently travelling on trains at various times of the day, if the office is open at Thatcham, the guy will swipe to authorise. If it's closed, I have to buy my ticket at Paddington so they can authorise my card by swipe. I have now been met at Paddington TWICE by the police, after inspectors accused me of boarding the train with the intention of not buying a ticket (alledgedly). On both occasions, the conductor was forced to admit that I had made it clear what my problem was with my card, and no further action was taken. I then went and bought my ticket on both occasions, so what's the problem? Mainly the embarrassment of being met by the police and having to explain myself various times to the guard on the train and being made to feel like a criminal. There was no need for it, and if the guard had really wanted too, he could have rang up FGW and did a manual authorisation on the phone.

As for co-op railways, I think it would be a really good idea, much better than nationalisation in the old sense. Labour didn't do enough on railway regulation, hopefully the new Government will do more.

The point of not making life easy for you is a valid one and used to be even worse. I remember at one point I only had a Solo card and in order to pay for my monthly travelcard into London at the time I had to make a special trip into the bank (due to the amont being over £250) and then carry this wad of cash through Newbury town centre to the ticket office because they did not take this form of payment card at the time. Also, when you bought a ticket on the train in the past it was printed out onto paper and therefore could not be used in automatic ticket barriers. There also used to be the absurd situation where all ticket machines were on the station platform, which couldn't be accessed at peak times without a ticket. Thankfully I don't travel by train on a regular basis any more but I really do sympathise when people accuse FGW of being a bit inflexible because it tallies with my own past experience.

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

I don't believe that they can refuse in this way as a condition of the agreement with the merchant services provider. They would need to accept signature anyway as a back-up should the PIN machine fail.

I do not, however, doubt that FGW are telling people that they can't use signature. The difference is that the liability for a 'wrong' chip & PIN transaction lies with the customer; whilst for swipe and sign it lies with the merchant

That's true.

Also, Richard you could use cash - Withdraw over the counter the amount required for your journey. Not easy, and I can sympathise with not being able to use your card (Natwest did the same to me for 3 weeks around Christmas), however there are different payment methods which would avoid your embarrassment.

However on that topic, there have been times where I've tried to buy a ticket and the ticket machine has been broken or switched off, and the ticket office closed! Rare but does happen, but an explanation to the ticketing officer normally sorts things out in a non-dramatic way.

[Richard Garvie]

That's true.

Also, Richard you could use cash - Withdraw over the counter the amount required for your journey. Not easy, and I can sympathise with not being able to use your card (Natwest did the same to me for 3 weeks around Christmas), however there are different payment methods which would avoid your embarrassment.

However on that topic, there have been times where I've tried to buy a ticket and the ticket machine has been broken or switched off, and the ticket office closed! Rare but does happen, but an explanation to the ticketing officer normally sorts things out in a non-dramatic way.

The only problem I have is that I can't withdraw cash without a pin number anywhere but the co-op branch (nearest is Reading), even at the Britania which is part of Co-op. I typically do have cash, but on the occasions I do not, it can cause an issue as some of the inspectors just see the opportunity to make a penalty fare.

Solutions are either Co-op open a branch in Newbury or Thatcham, or ticket inspectors ring up and authorise the card manually which they are allowed to do should the customer not have a pin or the pin does not work. I just think that FGW as a whole are very customer unfriendly and they need to address this issue as a priority. Customer service should be any business priority.

[Vodabury]

The only problem I have is that I can't withdraw cash without a pin number anywhere but the co-op branch (nearest is Reading), even at the Britania which is part of Co-op.

If you do not want to open a second bank/building society account, you might want to consider a money top-up card. With such, you can put a sum of money on to it (and there are many ways to do this) and have it as a standby ATM or credit card. Risk is very low as there is no credit available on such a card.

Also, some banks allow you to retrieve a card PIN online. Maybe worth asking your bank if they have this facility.

Rgds

[Biker1]

Here's a website some of you moaners may wish to visit and sign!!

[Richard Garvie]

I don't think nationalisation is the best option.

[On the edge]

I don't think nationalisation is the best option.

Must admit tend to agree. Would a 'not for profit' vertically integrated model be in order? Perhaps based, with modifications on the 1923 arrangement - this time perhaps without the commercial common carrier restrictions.