Can our MP please make a stand against FGW being given the new Great Western franchise. We have suffered long enough with poor services, mob handed revenue inspectors and overcrowded / dirty local trains. Enough is enough. Let's get a propoer operator in to run them properly. How about a social enterprise / co-operative railway, with all funds being reinvested???

Funny, I thought Labour were going to re-nationalise the railways if elected in 1997.

13 years later and it never happened. Bit late to start shouting now.

As far as I can see Richard B is actually on the case - It was a sight worse before he started. Late running, last minute cancellations, dim timetabling and a culture of the operators blaming the track people. He's at least sorted that bit.

Sorting out the incompetent management arrangements will doubtless take much longer. Agree with the last post, there was a golden opportunity in Labours last term but Byers and Prescott bottled out! They had the opportunity to take back into public ownership the track management firms who were insolvent - so wouldn't have cost the tax payers anything.

Richard B is actually doing a good job on this one. What's letting him down is the Regulatory failure? Have we heard from them yet?

To sum up this week's NWN bit on overcrowding. FGW said they were just doing what the Regulator told then. The Regulator said they couldn't see a problem and there was no safety issue. Classic!!

We pay for these people who were put in place - lets get some value - they are doing nothing.to represent the customers whilst the market was developing. Here is a classic case where a quango could be quickly abolished, cause no ill effect and save a large sum of money.

A cooperative approach would be a very good idea - but we've lost the art of setting up and managing Coops. We could try again - anyone else up for that?

Write to him and ask?
Who do you propose, bearing in mind your radical alternative is not up for discussion in the real world of today?

Co operative enterprise, sounds a bit like Red heaven to me.

What, John Lewis Red?

Explain that observation please.
In my experience they are sadly lacking with many travelling for free at the expense of the hard hit fare payer.
If you have a valid ticket what's the problem?

There have been complaints (in the NWN) in the past about the behaviour of officious inspectors. I think they were treating people disrespectfully.

They simply ask to see a valid ticket.
What is wrong with that?
I think it is the ones who do not like paying who complain!

If that is all they did, do you think that would have generated complaints in the NWN?

I am no big fan of FGW, they have let me down a number of times on my journey - one time leaving me stranded at Reading late at night.

However, the vast majority of the staff I speak with are pleasant and courteous. The nasty and offensive behaviour I see on trains is from some of the passengers.

Rgds

I haver had the same experience, but the inspectors' behaviour referred to earlier, did generate complaints in the NWN some time ago.

It really isn't about asking to see tickets - its the way they go about it. I witnessed this on two occasions. They didn't worry me - I'm rather too big - but the last time, an old lady started to cry. She was in a hurry - but did Mr Big make any concession? No. Unfortunately for him I had all the time in the world. We ended up on the 'phone to his boss! Who claimed to be a 'Customer' Services Manager! Won't change anything - but PLEASE complain immediately you see things like this happen. Manners cost nothing.

How should they do it properly? Conductors on trains for one - that would also cut the vandalism. They can do it in Scotland, they can do it down here!

Again - this is simply incompetent management and bad customer service.

I repeat.
If you have a valid ticket (and correct me if I'm wrong, surely this should be the case) then you will not have a problem.
I have NEVER had a problem with them.
They have politely asked to see my ticket and then said "OK fine" with a smile.
I would suggest that the complainants referred to did not have a valid ticket.
These people are there to protect the interests of the honest, fare paying traveller against those who think free travel is a god given right.
I agree with OTE that guards on trains is necessary as the lack of them does encourage the more dishonest of travellers to "give it a try".

And I repeat, the complaints went beyond merely asking for tickets. It was the methods used. They were impolite. I would try and find the story, but trying to find stories on the Newbury News website is not easy. It is also not the case that every person without a valid ticket is so because they are deliberately trying to avoid paying. Mistakes are made.

Exactly right Andy! Certainly in the round up I complained about they acted as if they'd been trained by the Soviets. They didn't find one offender either. Complete overkill and wholly unncessary. Imagine the outcry if the Police acted like that, or indeed if Tesco had a blitz at the door and checked that everyone had been through the cash out!

It just goes to show you what they actually think of their passengers - after all its only a small minority who are doing wrong. My view its about time these people were reigned in, they are acting like wheel clampers - but with people rather than cars.

What a ridiculous comment!
Of course everyone is checked at a supermarket when they pay at the checkout.
Try walking out of Tescos without paying for a loaf of bread and see what the security guard says!! (Followed by the police if you refuse to cooperate).
Most of the time that is exactly what people do on the Kennet Line because there are no ticket checks at stations or on trains after 12:00.
I cannot understand why you, as an honest, fare paying passenger, would object to checks to ensure that those who would not pay at your expense do not get away with it.

Let em try again. It was not the check that was the complaint, it was the manner they were checking that was complained of.

I know (again) and I repeat (because I am counter arguing the adverse comments about ticket checks) that I have never had a problem and nor will anyone else who has a valid ticket.
(Or who has got on at a station where it is not possible to buy and are willing to pay at the check).

admin - can you help find the story about people complaining of the FGW ticket inspections? I cannot clearly Remember what the complaint was, but I seem to remember it was by people who had valid tickets.

Right, lets get this straight. The vast majority of train passengers are honest, clean and decent. If the railway company are stupid enough not to have on board checking staff, simple and easily understood ticket pricing policies then they deserve all they get.

In this day and age, quite apart from bad customer service it is simply foul manners, if not inhuman to simply 'round people up' and aggressively demand to see tickets as people exit. No other business operation would get away with this or even dare to try - no matter what assumed provocation from their customers.

The people presently responsible for managing these aspects of the railway operation should not be let anywhere near the customers until they've been properly retrained and if possible educated.

I was simply using Tesco as an example - frankly a good one - exactly the same situation prevails - but Tesco staff are actually vigilant. Of course they have rouges in their shops - but managed on a case by case basis.

You suggest there may be times when FGW don't have staff on shift to do the checking! If this really was a problem - they would soo find the staff. In any event, that's an incredible statement - do the Police shut down in the early evening?

So then, I'd argue that your 'anti customer' mind set is rather more ridiculous. Think about it - put yourself in the customers shoes for a moment. And no, I don't like anyone getting away without paying - but I dislike even more a management lifting large salaries out of the business yet failing to deliver. That goes on, unabated, day after day.

My example about conductors:

Since moving to the Co-op bank in July, I am still yet to recieve my pin number (yes, I have chased it up). Frequently travelling on trains at various times of the day, if the office is open at Thatcham, the guy will swipe to authorise. If it's closed, I have to buy my ticket at Paddington so they can authorise my card by swipe. I have now been met at Paddington TWICE by the police, after inspectors accused me of boarding the train with the intention of not buying a ticket (alledgedly). On both occasions, the conductor was forced to admit that I had made it clear what my problem was with my card, and no further action was taken. I then went and bought my ticket on both occasions, so what's the problem? Mainly the embarrassment of being met by the police and having to explain myself various times to the guard on the train and being made to feel like a criminal. There was no need for it, and if the guard had really wanted too, he could have rang up FGW and did a manual authorisation on the phone.

As for co-op railways, I think it would be a really good idea, much better than nationalisation in the old sense. Labour didn't do enough on railway regulation, hopefully the new Government will do more.

Sounds good except that the "honest, clean and decent" people end up paying extra for those that aren't as honest.


Except for the NHS (surgeries, hospitals and clinics all have the same approach of treating their "customers" like sheep), the underground (which allows exit but you still have to validate your Oyster card or pay a penaly), air travel (airports and some airlines treat people like sheep also).
I don't think that train travel is really an exception but the trouble is that what they offer is expensive and not a pleasant experience.

Richard, before you board a train you should have a valid ticket or a valid means to pay if there are no facilities to buy at the station.
This is your responsibility, not the train company's

Richard, you say you are a frequent traveller and understand that you need a PIN to use your Co-op card on a train in order to buy a ticket. I have to say, common sense would suggest that if you do not have a PIN for this card, then you have an alternative method of payment at your disposal. The "problem" is that the train conductor and the police may suspect (I am sure wrongly in your case) that if not stopped and challenged, you would not have bothered to buy a ticket. This may be especially so as they have now stopped you twice! They may not be so understanding next time!. Good luck. Rgds

So if you cannot get the ticket you are entitles to, that is the customers fault? Your attitude seems analogous to that of the train operators, and probably explains why customer care is in the basement.

You CAN get the ticket you are entitled to if you have the means to pay.
Read the post.
I am just explaining that in the case of rail travel, as is the case with every other purchase anywhere, you should either pay or have the means to pay.
Why is it these days that few seem to take responsibility for their on actions?

You seem blind to what people are saying, no-one is contesting what you say, but just like the train operators, you are ignoring the complaints people are making. Richard Garvie does have the means but sometimes the train operators contrive to make it difficult to do the right thing. I also suggest that one has to be of above average intelligence to use the ticket machines and get it right.

Swipe and sign is a legitimate way to pay. Most unsighted people pay this way, so very surprised ticket sellers on trains are unabble to offer this service.

I do not disagree. I still have an old non-chip storecard and have to supply a John Hancock every time I use it.

I do not know why, but it appears from what we are told FGW do not accept a "swipe and sign" on a train.

So, until Richard gets his PIN, having an alternative means of payment would simply prevent the inconvenience and embarrassment he has complained of.

Rgds

I don't believe that they can refuse in this way as a condition of the agreement with the merchant services provider. They would need to accept signature anyway as a back-up should the PIN machine fail.

I do not, however, doubt that FGW are telling people that they can't use signature. The difference is that the liability for a 'wrong' chip & PIN transaction lies with the customer; whilst for swipe and sign it lies with the merchant

Some conductors let you sign, some ring up for authorisation, some ask you to pay when you get to Paddington (or get off at Reading and they can swipe / authorise there). As there is no co-op anywhere but Reading locally, sometimes it is hard to ensure you have cash in your pocket (enough for a rail ticket anyway) and you have no choice but to pay at your destination.

It's not about boarding without a valid ticket, if you can't physically buy your ticket at Thatcham, the law says you can pay either at your destination and / or a suitable interchange station. The police are more critical than I am about the way the conductors act, and it's not like I have ever refused to pay for my travel. I reordered a pin last week so hopefully it arrives soon!!!

Just as an FYI richard, i used to bank with Smile (part of the Co-OP) and they offer all counter services such as withdrawalls, paying in etc at the post office counter.

hope that helps! ;-)

The point of not making life easy for you is a valid one and used to be even worse. I remember at one point I only had a Solo card and in order to pay for my monthly travelcard into London at the time I had to make a special trip into the bank (due to the amont being over £250) and then carry this wad of cash through Newbury town centre to the ticket office because they did not take this form of payment card at the time. Also, when you bought a ticket on the train in the past it was printed out onto paper and therefore could not be used in automatic ticket barriers. There also used to be the absurd situation where all ticket machines were on the station platform, which couldn't be accessed at peak times without a ticket. Thankfully I don't travel by train on a regular basis any more but I really do sympathise when people accuse FGW of being a bit inflexible because it tallies with my own past experience.

That's true.

Also, Richard you could use cash - Withdraw over the counter the amount required for your journey. Not easy, and I can sympathise with not being able to use your card (Natwest did the same to me for 3 weeks around Christmas), however there are different payment methods which would avoid your embarrassment.

However on that topic, there have been times where I've tried to buy a ticket and the ticket machine has been broken or switched off, and the ticket office closed! Rare but does happen, but an explanation to the ticketing officer normally sorts things out in a non-dramatic way.

The only problem I have is that I can't withdraw cash without a pin number anywhere but the co-op branch (nearest is Reading), even at the Britania which is part of Co-op. I typically do have cash, but on the occasions I do not, it can cause an issue as some of the inspectors just see the opportunity to make a penalty fare.

Solutions are either Co-op open a branch in Newbury or Thatcham, or ticket inspectors ring up and authorise the card manually which they are allowed to do should the customer not have a pin or the pin does not work. I just think that FGW as a whole are very customer unfriendly and they need to address this issue as a priority. Customer service should be any business priority.

If you do not want to open a second bank/building society account, you might want to consider a money top-up card. With such, you can put a sum of money on to it (and there are many ways to do this) and have it as a standby ATM or credit card. Risk is very low as there is no credit available on such a card.

Also, some banks allow you to retrieve a card PIN online. Maybe worth asking your bank if they have this facility.

Rgds

Here's a website some of you moaners may wish to visit and sign!!

I don't think nationalisation is the best option.

Must admit tend to agree. Would a 'not for profit' vertically integrated model be in order? Perhaps based, with modifications on the 1923 arrangement - this time perhaps without the commercial common carrier restrictions.

How would you get private investors / company's to get involved in a "not for profit" organisation?
What's in it for them?
If you are not going to make money then surely nationalisation is the only path to take?

John Lewis and Ove Arup seem to be doing quite well. Raising the money to pay for the assets doesn't seem to sit well with the 'for profit' firms either - as well evidenced by the railway mess and the water industry. Look at August's Harvard Business Review; food for thought. There really is another way.

Don't John Lewis make a nice profit though?

I remember when FGW used to be pretty good about 5-7 years ago. When, if I booked a train to London, I know it'd be clean, fairly ontime, etc. However the last time I've been on a train was about...3 months ago. It was covered in graffiti and smelt of wee.

And the time before that I was stuck on the tracks for over 6 hours and had to be escorted half a mile down the tracks by the (health and safety) police and emergency services when some (presumably hooded) youths placed scaffolding across the tracks on a high speed rail line on my way back from Leeds.

Trains are rubbish. I say completely remove commuter-type trains, place the funding from that into buses and car sharing incentives. Only use the high speed, long haul trains (for example exeter-paddington line) and perhaps increase the frequency of these trains or utilise more rail-based freight transport.

Trains are exactly the same as buses except they are more cramped (I can't sit in a normal seat with the 2 inches of legroom you get in a regular commuter train) and while buses are generally for poor people, at least they take you quite close to where you actually want to be and you have the option to get on/off pretty much wherever you want.

Not the railway's fault then but the scum who use them?
.Not the railway's fault then?
Completely remove commuter trains?
Try going to Reading by bus then and see how long it takes you - and no cheaper!
Are buses less cramped? I don't know I don't use service buses.

A mutual would be great!!!

Would agree with that - how could we get this on the national agenda? To be honest, given the state of the railways suspect all major parties would support a different solution.

Would agree with that - how could we get this on the national agenda? To be honest, given the state of the railways suspect all major parties would support a different solution.

The unions want nationalisation, the tories want privatisation (more than now with stations being leased off for 99 years each) and I don't suppose anyone knows what Clegg thinks. Labour are half and half between nationalisation and privatisation, it just needs somebody to start banging the mutual drum and I reckon a lot of people would fall in behind it.