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> EU fail #1: low CO2 targets and filthy diesels cars
On the edge
post Aug 7 2017, 02:51 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 7 2017, 02:49 PM) *
Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!


Hydro is a great way of shutting up the nimbys who don't like looking at windmills though. Once your house is under a good few feet of water; that problem disappears.

Still, fracking will save us and with luck the chemicals they leech into the water table might at least neutralise the chlorine taste in imported American chicken.....


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SirWilliam
post Aug 7 2017, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 7 2017, 02:49 PM) *
Correct. Over population is the cause of most evil to the planet.

Interesting thanks.
I should imagine hydro- electric has the least environmental impact?
All you need is a bloody big dam!
Oh and a river.
Oh and a valley!

And a few scattered villages so a few £million can be spent on consultation before re-housing them in a Swansea terrace , ( other terraces are undoubtedly available in equally desirable towns ), but they will be allowed to attend sightseeing days during periods of drought .

But that's ok because we don't live anywhere near. angry.gif


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On the edge
post Aug 7 2017, 07:10 PM
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I wonder if those great minds looking at the UKs energy future will spot the opportunities round here. The run down of our independent nuclear capability must mean we have several,'nuclear sites' coming ready for new work.


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blackdog
post Aug 7 2017, 08:40 PM
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Hyrdro can mean big dams and drowned valleys, but it can also mean a small generator in a river. There is a storage facility in Wales that comes under this too - they pump water up into a reservoir when there is low demand on the grid and let if fall through a hydro generator at times of peak demand.
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On the edge
post Aug 8 2017, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 7 2017, 09:40 PM) *
Hyrdro can mean big dams and drowned valleys, but it can also mean a small generator in a river. There is a storage facility in Wales that comes under this too - they pump water up into a reservoir when there is low demand on the grid and let if fall through a hydro generator at times of peak demand.


Small generators exploiting the flow rather than the weight of the water are very effective, much more so when several are installed connected together. A few years back a chap in Hungerford was looking at a promising Archimedes screw made from light materials which needed little groundwork to install. Big water wheels can also be effective and pleasant to watch, 'public art'. Sustainable energy is all about joining up thinking and different technologies; recognising every little helps. Our top down 'only my idea counts' approach demonstrably doesn't work.


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Turin Machine
post Aug 8 2017, 10:50 AM
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I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.


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SirWilliam
post Aug 8 2017, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.

I remember reading a few years back that if the Sahara was covered completely with solar panels it would generate enough power to feed most of Europe . Now there may well have been an element of journalistic license but to be honest it is doing very little else and would bring employment to the "locals".


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blackdog
post Aug 8 2017, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 8 2017, 03:28 PM) *
I remember reading a few years back that if the Sahara was covered completely with solar panels it would generate enough power to feed most of Europe . Now there may well have been an element of journalistic license but to be honest it is doing very little else and would bring employment to the "locals".

If the figures are right it demonstrates the need for more than solar; if 3 million square miles of panels in a desert can't provide enough for Europe you have little chance of running the world from the sun.

And think of the eco impact of manufacturing that many panels!
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On the edge
post Aug 8 2017, 05:59 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.


It's not really a matter of personal preference, more what natural features can be utilised. Nothing wrong with any of the methods we could employ. Sure, there are going to be complaints, just as there were when Didcot was deemed necessary in the 1960s.


There is also the flip side of this, energy use reduction. Good design and innovation is also badly needed here. Look at the under insulated gas heated new flats we are shoving up in the town centre. Or the motor industry attempting to electrify by emulating ice vehicle design.

Not surprising really, when our media bemoan and struggle with the fact that big commercial users are paid to automatically switch off things when demand gets high.


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Simon Kirby
post Aug 8 2017, 06:46 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Aug 8 2017, 05:08 PM) *
And think of the eco impact of manufacturing that many panels!

I've no seen this analysis, but it would be interesting to see the per-kW environmental footprint of solar as against coal, oil, nuclear, wind, wave, and hydro. I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the environmental impact is less than for fossil-fuels generation and nuclear, so all things being equal solar might well be a good strategy if we could also develop better energy storage.


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Biker1
post Aug 8 2017, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 8 2017, 11:50 AM) *
I'm very much in favour of solar, I know that in this poxy climate it's not as effective as it could be but it still a largely unobtrusive means of generating power.

Right! wink.gif
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On the edge
post Aug 8 2017, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 8 2017, 07:46 PM) *
I've no seen this analysis, but it would be interesting to see the per-kW environmental footprint of solar as against coal, oil, nuclear, wind, wave, and hydro. I may be wrong, but I'd guess that the environmental impact is less than for fossil-fuels generation and nuclear, so all things being equal solar might well be a good strategy if we could also develop better energy storage.


Storage is a key issue but gradually creeping forward. Sodium is still in play and had promise. We could also learn from emerging economies where recycling lead acid batteries, particularly deep cycle ones. Particularly in a domestic setting, this is a method of choice in some areas, ironically to bridge regular power outages from unreliable traditional distribution networks.

Batteries and other small scale storeage such as compressed air is much more effective if it can be shared with your neighbours. In fact one of the real reasons for Smart (on line) Metering.


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On the edge
post Aug 8 2017, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 8 2017, 08:26 PM) *


Good design is all. Now, imagine replacing all the failing slate roofs of (say) strings of Victorian housing and public buildings not with tiles and panels, but with panels alone. I suspect few of us would even notice.


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Biker1
post Aug 9 2017, 04:51 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2017, 08:56 PM) *
Good design is all. Now, imagine replacing all the failing slate roofs of (say) strings of Victorian housing and public buildings not with tiles and panels, but with panels alone. I suspect few of us would even notice.

Don't get me wrong. I not against generation from "renewable sources".
I am just pointing out that, in my opinion, there is a price to pay, lesser or greater, in some way for all our energy requirements.
Nothing comes for free! dry.gif
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On the edge
post Aug 9 2017, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 9 2017, 05:51 AM) *
Don't get me wrong. I not against generation from "renewable sources".
I am just pointing out that, in my opinion, there is a price to pay, lesser or greater, in some way for all our energy requirements.
Nothing comes for free! dry.gif


Absolutely; often disregarded truth.


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Turin Machine
post Aug 9 2017, 06:26 AM
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Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!


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On the edge
post Aug 9 2017, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 9 2017, 07:26 AM) *
Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!


Interesting what we are scared of isn't it? Bet you are happy sitting in a moving tin box with petrol sloshing about!


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SirWilliam
post Aug 9 2017, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 9 2017, 07:26 AM) *
Nuclear pile in the basement. Gives a lovely pale blue glow through the house. Never need to switch the lights on now. Plus trained mice in a wheel in the shed, bit of cheese on a string, lovely!


Just a thought but if we constructed treadmills at the appropriate points and conscripted the unemployed / pensioners and those children who's parents have benefitted from the tax payer to power them on a rota system, we would have a cost effective answer .

Alternatively we could just use less.



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On the edge
post Aug 9 2017, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 9 2017, 11:06 AM) *
Just a thought but if we constructed treadmills at the appropriate points and conscripted the unemployed / pensioners and those children who's parents have benefitted from the tax payer to power them on a rota system, we would have a cost effective answer .

Alternatively we could just use less.


British Gas have just got into big trouble for trying to encourage people to do just that, using the only way many seem to understand.

Not a matter of using less, more about using wisely.


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Turin Machine
post Aug 9 2017, 11:04 PM
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If early reports are correct, Mazda have cracked the HCCI problem and will be rolling out highly effective and efficient petrol engines in 2018 / 19 if true it will herald a new generation of ice technology!


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