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29th March 2019, Independence Day |
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Jun 26 2018, 06:01 AM
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QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM) Once again the Brexit division rekindles old hostilities amongst the great unwashed. Just because the media singled out a few "bovver boyze" to justify the immigration factor in the leave vote instead of actually asking those who were quite simply fed up with the creeping federalism being propagated by Berlin and it's sycophantic followers, we are now branded racist reactionaries by those "who know best". Maybe we need European workers, ( least they work ), maybe not, but we are hardly going to shoot ourselves in the foot by putting a "no entry" sign at Dover while potatoes rot in the fields. Is it too much to ask forum contributors to form a consensus on how best to leave as opposed to this silly name calling. How best we leave? Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal.
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Jun 27 2018, 05:19 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 AM) How best we leave?
Up to now we’ve been negotiating our exit like a civil contract. Talking to the EU on the basis as supplicant; let us know what you want to let us go. If we took the key EU imports to UK and did a Trump, and also suggested we’d liberalise our money markets considerably, the boot would be on the other foot. There is no nice way to negotiaye a big deal. But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go.
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Jun 27 2018, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 06:19 AM) But that isn’t going well. On the first round Trump’s imposition of steel tariffs has resulted in counter measures. If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over. And there will be unintended consequences such as Harley Davidson shifting production away from the US. Negotiating in the real world isn’t about pissing the other side off as the other side can simply walk away. It’s about being realistic. As hard as it is for the Brexiteers to accept, the UK has a weak hand. We’ve now got major world players telling it like it is. If we don’t stay in the single market and customs union hundreds of thousands of jobs will go. Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all.
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Jun 27 2018, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 07:28 AM) Exactly, If we did that to the EU they would simply respond in kind, not roll over, then we'd be negotiating for real. Remember, the first response isn't the closing outcome. Believe me, yes, people are worries about our leaving causing job losses; to my knowledge in Germany and Holland for sure. Competing in World markets is hard, always was, always will be. Ironically, this was and still is, a major EU Commission concern, the EU's own outlook for its place in the emerging World economy isn't looking good at all. That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation.
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Jun 27 2018, 08:03 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 08:23 AM) That's not negotiating though. That's economic warfare. Have you ever negotiated in business? It's not hostile. You're confusing a messy divorce in which emotions rule with negotiation. Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town!
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Jun 27 2018, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 09:03 AM) Yes, what I did for many years. Sorry but very big contracts usually are, if they aren't then it's a roll over! To cope with this is one reason we teach kids games at school, any competitive sport, by definition, is 'hostile' because both sides want to win. If we take the EU, they are playing exactly by these rules, hence using the negotiators they've chosen. I'd argue that the way we are negotiating us akin to Manchester United playing Thatcham Town! Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation.
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Jun 27 2018, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 12:11 PM) Funny really. When the inevitable happens and we either obey the rules of the club or leave empty handed you and others will blame the negotiating rather than the reality that you can’t be in a club without following the club rules. They aren’t going to give us access unless we accept free movement and the other things. TM is in an impossible situation. No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't. Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost. Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that........... Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day.
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Jun 27 2018, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 01:24 PM) No, it's not worth being in a club where the members don't play by the rules, for me, that's the reason we are coming out. The EU members simply don't.
Like Sir Austin Chamberlain, we've always played the game and we've always lost.
Just one small proof - London Electricity was purchased by the French nationalised electricity supplier (EdF) although there were several other private bids. Could a private UK utility take over EdF, er no, of course not. What did the EU do aboutthe that...........
Just like the imperialisim it sought to emulate, the EU has had its day. If you can tell me where EU rules were breached by the French I'll join you in condemning it. I don't have that kind of knowledge. My own experience is that often it's our implementation of the EU rules that handicaps us. Normally our interpretation is as free market as possible because that's our general ethos (well our government's). The French tend to protect their economy and farmers and even small traders. As long as it's withing the rules it's all cool in the kaftan.
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Jun 28 2018, 06:04 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 06:53 AM) As long as the rules are enforced when seen to be broken. That's why the ECJ exists. The ECJ??? I thought it existed to give married men in dresses a pension at 60. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44612117Get your pension 5 years early. Start wearing a dress at 59. Quite appealing in this weather!!!😂
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Jun 28 2018, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 07:04 AM) The ECJ??? I thought it existed to give married men in dresses a pension at 60. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44612117Get your pension 5 years early. Start wearing a dress at 59. Quite appealing in this weather!!!😂 Does your list of phobias know no limits?
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Jun 28 2018, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 07:08 AM) Does your list of phobias know no limits? Phobia"A phobia is an overwhelming and debilitating fear of an object, place, situation, feeling or animal."Another English word that is regularly misused.
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Jun 28 2018, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jun 28 2018, 08:10 AM) Phobia"A phobia is an overwhelming and debilitating fear of an object, place, situation, feeling or animal."Another English word that is regularly misused. Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on...
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Jun 28 2018, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 01:27 PM) Sorry, I didn't invent the terms Islamophobia, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia and so on... I have newresophobia The fear of someone who wants to live in a basket case of a country.
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Jun 28 2018, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 08:08 PM) I have newresophobia
The fear of someone who wants to live in a basket case of a country. Oh the irony.
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Jun 28 2018, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (newres @ Jun 28 2018, 10:01 PM) Oh the irony. Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍
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Jun 29 2018, 04:20 AM
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QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 28 2018, 10:42 PM) Opinions fella. We all have them. We may not see eye to eye but I respect your will to write the gibberish you spout.👍 However the Brexit leader’s view on business is “F U C K business”. Now I assume by “basket case” you mean economically. Business is pretty much unanimously telling us that we will lose jobs if we don’t stay in the single market. It’s kind of obvious really. In my opinion nothing is more important than us being economically sound as a nation because that means we can provide healthcare, security, welfare and so on. A notion of “taking back control “ is just a “notion”. There won’t even be less immigration as long as we need workers and the Syrian refugee crisis won’t be affected as we are an island and not in Schengen. Although obviously we’re gonna need less workers if we leave. All that’s really left is a misconception that we’re ruled by Brussels and a dislike of foreigners.
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TallDarkAndHandsome 29th March 2019 Jun 23 2018, 06:00 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 07... Jun 23 2018, 08:22 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 23 2018, 09:22 PM) Li... Jun 23 2018, 08:45 PM Andy Capp QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 23 2018, 09... Jun 24 2018, 09:14 AM SirWilliam Let's keep marching and shouting till we not o... Jun 24 2018, 01:43 PM newres QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 02:43 PM... Jun 24 2018, 02:29 PM x2lls QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 03:29 PM) Yo... Jun 24 2018, 03:10 PM newres QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 04:10 PM) For... Jun 24 2018, 04:14 PM x2lls QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) We... Jun 24 2018, 04:29 PM newres QUOTE (x2lls @ Jun 24 2018, 05:29 PM) Sil... Jun 24 2018, 04:35 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) I ... Jun 24 2018, 05:15 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06... Jun 24 2018, 05:23 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 06:23 PM) Fo... Jun 24 2018, 05:36 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 06... Jun 24 2018, 05:43 PM x2lls QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:35 PM) I ... Jun 25 2018, 12:53 AM x2lls QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 05:14 PM) We... Jun 24 2018, 10:56 PM newres QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 24 2018, 07:32 PM... Jun 24 2018, 07:07 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 24 2018, 08:07 PM) Th... Jun 24 2018, 08:18 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 24 2018, 09... Jun 24 2018, 08:30 PM SirWilliam QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 26 2018, 07:01 A... Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM James_Trinder QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 26 2018, 09:49 AM... Jun 26 2018, 12:34 PM On the edge QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34... Jun 26 2018, 02:29 PM SirWilliam QUOTE (James_Trinder @ Jun 26 2018, 01:34... Jun 26 2018, 05:44 PM On the edge QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 03:43 PM) If... Jun 27 2018, 05:37 PM newres QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 27 2018, 06:37 P... Jun 27 2018, 06:16 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 27 2018, 07:16 PM) Th... Jun 27 2018, 06:32 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07... Jun 28 2018, 05:20 AM dannyboy QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 27 2018, 07... Jun 28 2018, 04:52 PM On the edge QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 28 2018, 05:52 PM) ... Jun 28 2018, 06:10 PM SirWilliam QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 P... Jun 29 2018, 08:47 AM On the edge QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM... Jun 29 2018, 01:04 PM dannyboy QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 28 2018, 07:10 P... Jun 29 2018, 09:47 AM On the edge QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 10:47 AM) ... Jun 29 2018, 11:23 AM newres QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 P... Jun 29 2018, 01:01 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 02:01 PM) Be... Jun 29 2018, 02:19 PM dannyboy QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03... Jun 29 2018, 02:42 PM On the edge QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03... Jun 29 2018, 02:45 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 03:45 P... Jun 29 2018, 02:52 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03... Jun 29 2018, 03:25 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 04:25 PM) Tr... Jun 29 2018, 06:19 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07... Jun 29 2018, 06:22 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jun 29 2018, 07:22 PM) Bu... Jun 29 2018, 07:01 PM Andy Capp QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 08... Jun 30 2018, 02:33 AM newres QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM)... Jun 30 2018, 05:23 AM On the edge QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jun 30 2018, 03:33 AM)... Jun 30 2018, 05:55 AM dannyboy QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07... Jun 29 2018, 06:38 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 29 2018, 07:38 PM) ... Jun 29 2018, 06:59 PM dannyboy QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 07... Jun 30 2018, 02:53 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jun 30 2018, 03:53 PM) ... Jun 30 2018, 03:14 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 30 2018, 04... Jul 1 2018, 11:07 AM Andy Capp QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 12:07 PM) Pra... Jul 1 2018, 11:47 AM newres QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 1 2018, 12:47 PM) ... Jul 1 2018, 12:18 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) You... Jul 1 2018, 01:27 PM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (newres @ Jul 1 2018, 01:18 PM) You... Jul 1 2018, 03:58 PM On the edge QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04... Jul 5 2018, 08:55 AM Strafin QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 1 2018, 04... Jul 5 2018, 10:17 AM On the edge QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) Ma... Jul 5 2018, 10:33 AM TallDarkAndHandsome QUOTE (Strafin @ Jul 5 2018, 11:17 AM) Ma... Jul 5 2018, 07:03 PM dannyboy QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jul 5 2018, 08... Jul 5 2018, 08:53 PM newres QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jun 29 2018, 03... Jun 29 2018, 02:48 PM dannyboy QUOTE (On the edge @ Jun 29 2018, 12:23 P... 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