Positive discrimination or just plain racism?, Pesron job applicants have to be "none white" Options

[TallDarkAndHands...]

As this job is based in London and white British people make up less than 50% of the capital now surely they are now an ethnic minority?

https://creativeaccess.org.uk/opportunity/t...duction-intern/

Also if I advertised for a job and said "whites only" what would the social and media reaction be? My guess is I'd end up being prosecuted. Odd world....

And I just noticed... PESTON

[je suis Charlie]

"The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Its racist. By definition and by intent.

[Simon Kirby]

"The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

Its racist. By definition and by intent.

I'm happy with that as a definition of racism, however I don't agree that this racially-selective internship is racist by that definition. It's racially selective, that's undeniable, so it undeniably passes the first part of the test, but does that racial selection have the "purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life". Certainly taking a job is unambiguously an exercise of a fundamentl freedom in the economic field of public life, but this isn't a job, it's an internship designed to give the successful applicant equality of opportunity with non BAME condidates in applications for jobs in the creative sector.

The crux is that, all other things being equal and given the internship works as intended, a non-BAME individual who hasn't taken the internship is not going to be disadvantage in an application for a creative job but is going to be equally qualified on merit with the BAME intern. No one is disadvantaged so the racially-selective internship isn't racist.

[je suis Charlie]

I'm happy with that as a definition of racism, however I don't agree that this racially-selective internship is racist by that definition. It's racially selective, that's undeniable, so it undeniably passes the first part of the test, but does that racial selection have the "purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life". Certainly taking a job is unambiguously an exercise of a fundamentl freedom in the economic field of public life, but this isn't a job, it's an internship designed to give the successful applicant equality of opportunity with non BAME condidates in applications for jobs in the creative sector.

The crux is that, all other things being equal and given the internship works as intended, a non-BAME individual who hasn't taken the internship is not going to be disadvantage in an application for a creative job but is going to be equally qualified on merit with the BAME intern. No one is disadvantaged so the racially-selective internship isn't racist.

Not interested if you're happy with the definition, its THE definition! Clear, precise, definitive. "Exclusion based on colour" is the nitty gritty. No weasel words, no fudging, no obscuration, no 'corbynisms". Its racism. Fundamentally, in word in ethics and in law.

[Simon Kirby]

Not interested if you're happy with the definition, its THE definition! Clear, precise, definitive. "Exclusion based on colour" is the nitty gritty. No weasel words, no fudging, no obscuration, no 'corbynisms". Its racism. Fundamentally, in word in ethics and in law.

Exclusion based on colour is just one part of the definition, and for a thing to be racism by this definition you need to have both the exclusion element and the detriment.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Exclusion based on colour is just one part of the definition, and for a thing to be racism by this definition you need to have both the exclusion element and the detriment.

So to sum up. White bad. None white good. Tell that to the forgotton white middle aged men who voted brexit. They they see adverts like that and you are actually surprised about the rise of the far right? Then again you'd probably just call them uneducated bigots. I see no racism in my workplace. The chap I work with is black, a fully qualified accountant and one of the nicest guys I know. Whats more he is an exceptional employee and being fast tracked. Its called "talent".

[On the edge]

So to sum up. White bad. None white good. Tell that to the forgotton white middle aged men who voted brexit. They they see adverts like that and you are actually surprised about the rise of the far right? Then again you'd probably just call them uneducated bigots. I see no racism in my workplace. The chap I work with is black, a fully qualified accountant and one of the nicest guys I know. Whats more he is an exceptional employee and being fast tracked. Its called "talent".

Does this fit with the comment you made about you not wanting to employ me without you knowing anything at all about my skills or fitness for the job? Frankly, I'm not surprised you are often 'leaned on' by your HR department!

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Does this fit with the comment you made about you not wanting to employ me without you knowing anything at all about my skills or fitness for the job? Frankly, I'm not surprised you are often 'leaned on' by your HR department!

Not at all. By commenting on this forum for years that gives me a much better insight into your character than a 1 to 2 hour interview. I think you would cause trouble in my department. I expect you have been a thorn in the side of a lot of people in the past. And you'll be proud of it.

[On the edge]

Not at all. By commenting on this forum for years that gives me a much better insight into your character than a 1 to 2 hour interview. I think you would cause trouble in my department. I expect you have been a thorn in the side of a lot of people in the past. And you'll be proud of it.

A very sad commentary on your managerial competence.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

A very sad commentary on your managerial competence.

Confirmation that you would be trouble. 👍

[On the edge]

Confirmation that you would be trouble. 👍

Indeed. one of the reasons I wouldn't want to be employed by you anyway! You have at least confirmed that the biggest concern I had about Brexit, one that nearly stopped me voting to leave. That is, I was concerned that the UK didn't appear to have the management capability to go it alone. You have at least confirmed that; so perhaps the present political re-think is no bad thing.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Indeed. one of the reasons I wouldn't want to be employed by you anyway! You have at least confirmed that the biggest concern I had about Brexit, one that nearly stopped me voting to leave. That is, I was concerned that the UK didn't appear to have the management capability to go it alone. You have at least confirmed that; so perhaps the present political re-think is no bad thing.

Goodbye. Shut the door on the way out. You can't even perform trolling very well. Poor excuse for a human being.

[On the edge]

Goodbye. Shut the door on the way out. You can't even perform trolling very well. Poor excuse for a human being.

Sigh, the classic response, you only have personal insult left. I do appreciate that the truth hurts; so sorry for upsetting your day even as it starts.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Sigh, the classic response, you only have personal insult left. I do appreciate that the truth hurts; so sorry for upsetting your day even as it starts.

Ha Ha. Upset? 😂