Fighting at Newbury Carnival, Trouble after the carnival. Options

[Iommi]

Allegedly there was some trouble after the Newbury Carnival and also other people described how the atmosphere become sinister later on. Did anyone else notice or see this? I have heard that the there was an obvious Police presence early on but had gone by the early evening. Someone reported that the there was a fight in Northbrook Street that might have been caught on camera.

Although I don't always go, I often see or hear of trouble after big events like the Hennessy Gold Cup or the Newbury Fair. Is it possible that the Newbury's Carnival could be afflicted with yob behaviour as well?

[GMR]

It is not only possible but it seems to be a fact. The bigger question is why? Certain people like to test the water and with the police disappearing it gives them more strength and confidence to continue on their troublesome ways. A police presence would have sorted this problem out.

As I said in a previous post; I’ve noticed more drug users, alcoholics and yob behaviour than there ever was before on our streets.

[Bloggo]

It is not only possible but it seems to be a fact. The bigger question is why? Certain people like to test the water and with the police disappearing it gives them more strength and confidence to continue on their troublesome ways. A police presence would have sorted this problem out.

As I said in a previous post; I’ve noticed more drug users, alcoholics and yob behaviour than there ever was before on our streets.

I know I keep on saying the same things on this Forum but it is obvious to me and everyone that I know that Newbury is going down the toilet because of criminality, yobs and indiscipline.
When will this Council admit there's a problem and do something about it.

[GMR]

I know I keep on saying the same things on this Forum but it is obvious to me and everyone that I know that Newbury is going down the toilet because of criminality, yobs and indiscipline.
When will this Council admit there's a problem and do something about it.

I agree; and it is so noticeable compared to a few years ago. Many times I've seen shoppers harassed because of either drunks, yobs or some other element. Even more annoying they've got camera's up and that doesn't seem to deter them. They seem to be getting bolder all the time.

People say it is the courts to blame, and I agree to a point, however, that doesn't exonerate our constables lack of interest/ duties.

[Bloggo]

I agree; and it is so noticeable compared to a few years ago. Many times I've seen shoppers harassed because of either drunks, yobs or some other element. Even more annoying they've got camera's up and that doesn't seem to deter them. They seem to be getting bolder all the time.

People say it is the courts to blame, and I agree to a point, however, that doesn't exonerate our constables lack of interest/ duties.

You know GMR, it doesn't matter who is to blame, it has to be stopped and dealt with before Newbury and other towns beconme more "no-go 2 areas at night.

[GMR]

You know GMR, it doesn't matter who is to blame, it has to be stopped and dealt with before Newbury and other towns beconme more "no-go 2 areas at night.

You won't get any argument from me over that.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Well Well. Hot Day + Copious Amounts of Alcohol = Fight
I am shocked.

[Guest_Bill1_*]

I know I keep on saying the same things on this Forum but it is obvious to me and everyone that I know that Newbury is going down the toilet because of criminality, yobs and indiscipline.
When will this Council admit there's a problem and do something about it.

I may be being thick here, but why the Council?

[Bloggo]

I may be being thick here, but why the Council?

No, I don't think you are being thick, It may be me, but my understanding is that the Council as the Authority for the well being and security of our environment has the ability to call on the Police to act on their behalf when their is a clear indication that certain elements of social life is breaking down due to the behaviour of certain members of the local society.
I believe that we have reached that point and Council should be asking the Police to effectively control the Yob culture that has permeated Newbury society especially at night in the town

[Guest_Bill1_*]

No, I don't think you are being thick, It may be me, but my understanding is that the Council as the Authority for the well being and security of our environment has the ability to call on the Police to act on their behalf when their is a clear indication that certain elements of social life is breaking down due to the behaviour of certain members of the local society.
I believe that we have reached that point and Council should be asking the Police to effectively control the Yob culture that has permeated Newbury society especially at night in the town

Perhaps they are.

[Iommi]

I know I keep on saying the same things on this Forum but it is obvious to me and everyone that I know that Newbury is going down the toilet because of criminality, yobs and indiscipline. When will this Council admit there's a problem and do something about it.

When compared to other districts, West Berkshire is considered as a quiet area. The issues described on here are similar to other areas and are not unusual, albeit undesirable.

One interesting feature of a more 'attractive town', of course, is that it will attract all types, not just the quiet and wealthy. The Kennet Centre had its unruly element, so much so that they employed security to help maintain decorum. I fear that something similar will be needed as Newbury town becomes more popular for activities other than simply shopping.

It is issues like this that make me cynical about the value of living in a growing market town and perhaps people should be careful for what they wish for. Before we get too hysterical, I can remember since the beginning of my adult memory that Newbury has had its rough elements and subsequent drunken yobbish behaviour. What is quite new, however, is drug related crime.

[Roost]

Iommi's right on this one. Been around the town a few years meself and it's nothing new. What I think has changed is the age of those involved and causing the problems. They're a lot younger now and a lot braver because they know that all they'll get, even if they do end up getting arrested is a slap on the wrist (again) and a "Don't do it again" (again)!!!!!


Curious about an earlier post relating to our 'constables lack of interest / duties' though? Can anyone elaborate?

[GMR]

Iommi's right on this one. Been around the town a few years meself and it's nothing new. What I think has changed is the age of those involved and causing the problems. They're a lot younger now and a lot braver because they know that all they'll get, even if they do end up getting arrested is a slap on the wrist (again) and a "Don't do it again" (again)!!!!!


Curious about an earlier post relating to our 'constables lack of interest / duties' though? Can anyone elaborate?

I was talking to a police officer awhile back and he told me that they have so much paper work that they sometimes have to turn a blind eye just to catch up. Also; a few years ago there was a programme on the same subject that said police were not arresting where they should because of paperwork. I've also been in Newbury when drunks and yobbos were causing trouble and it was witnessed by police officers; they didn't do anything. I hope that clarifies my remarks?

I can also tell you other stories where they didn't act or just turned a blind eye.

[Bloggo]

I was talking to a police officer awhile back and he told me that they have so much paper work that they sometimes have to turn a blind eye just to catch up. Also; a few years ago there was a programme on the same subject that said police were not arresting where they should because of paperwork. I've also been in Newbury when drunks and yobbos were causing trouble and it was witnessed by police officers; they didn't do anything. I hope that clarifies my remarks?

I can also tell you other stories where they didn't act or just turned a blind eye.

Yes, but do you think that it is acceptable. I for one don't.
I want a police force that is effective in minimising crime and anti-social behaviour. Not one that ignores it because they are too busy. That's not what I pay for.

[GMR]

Yes, but do you think that it is acceptable. I for one don't.
I want a police force that is effective in minimising crime and anti-social behaviour. Not one that ignores it because they are too busy. That's not what I pay for.

Again I agree with you. Police are there to protect and deal with crime. I'll give you another example of something that happened to me. In February when the snow was down I went to walk the dog at 12.30 am Sunday morning. I witnessed a crime in progress and called the police (999) and was to told to wait outside and a police will be dispatched a car immediately. It was freezing cold and I waited out there for over an hour and nobody came. I made an official complaint but nothing happened. However, I learnt my lesson. I also wrote a letter to the NWN to show my anger but they didn’t print it (because, as they said, it was too long). They, the police, could have caught the culprits in the act if they did what they promised; came out immediately. The public have no faith in the police.

[Bloggo]

Again I agree with you. Police are there to protect and deal with crime. I'll give you another example of something that happened to me. In February when the snow was down I went to walk the dog at 12.30 am Sunday morning. I witnessed a crime in progress and called the police (999) and was to told to wait outside and a police will be dispatched a car immediately. It was freezing cold and I waited out there for over an hour and nobody came. I made an official complaint but nothing happened. However, I learnt my lesson. I also wrote a letter to the NWN to show my anger but they didn’t print it (because, as they said, it was too long). They, the police, could have caught the culprits in the act if they did what they promised; came out immediately. The public have no faith in the police.

Yes, and I can also cite similar examples of a lethargic Police force and an ineffectual justice system.
It is a pity that others on the

[Bloggo]

Yes, and I can also cite similar examples of a lethargic Police force and an ineffectual justice system.
It is a pity that others on the Forum think that what we are seeing on our streets is OK. How bad does it have to get before that view gets changed.

[Iommi]

Yes, and I can also cite similar examples of a lethargic Police force and an ineffectual justice system. It is a pity that others on the Forum think that what we are seeing on our streets is OK. How bad does it have to get before that view gets changed.

So who on this forum thinks the situation it is OK?

[JeffG]

So who on this forum thinks the situation it is OK?

I don't. I don't think anyone can rely on the police doing anything when it's less than murder.

Maybe the police need a web relations team, like Vodafone (see another post), to pick up on gripes like this.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

England has the HIGHEST rate of violent crime now in the World.
We are above South Africa and Columbia.

At least we come first in something.......

[Iommi]

England has the HIGHEST rate of violent crime now in the World.
We are above South Africa and Columbia. At least we come first in something.......

I don't think this is true, or at very least, it is misleading, but I am not saying we haven't a problem.

[GMR]

I've lived on Turnpike for over 30 years - brought my family up here - and it is the worst I've seen it in all that time. Police unable to do anything, or won't do anything and youths damaging property all the time.

Vandals damaged the light post outside the community centre; when i asked the police what they are doing about it they said they knew who did it but they have no proof. Well, if they knew who did it how come they've got no proof? Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Hugh Saskin]

England has the HIGHEST rate of violent crime now in the World.
We are above South Africa and Columbia.

At least we come first in something.......

Can you state your sources, please? If true, I don't think I want to leave the house much again

[Iommi]

Can you state your sources, please? If true, I don't think I want to leave the house much again

Bare in mind the source.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...Africa-U-S.html

[Hugh Saskin]

Bare in mind the source.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...Africa-U-S.html

Thanks, I always believe everything printed in the Daily Mail

[GMR]

Thanks, I always believe everything printed in the Daily Mail

if it is in the mail it has got to be true... they would never lie to us

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Actually this was my source....

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/...rime_in_Britain

[Bloggo]

Bare in mind the source.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...Africa-U-S.html

I get your point but would you rather believe the Governments figures then?

[GMR]

Actually this was my source....

http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/...rime_in_Britain

I can believe that. The police don't seem to be able to do anything and the ordinary citizens seem to suffer.

[GMR]

I get your point but would you rather believe the Governments figures then?

i wouldn't believe the government as they have been known to massage the figures. I would rather trust the Mail or some other tabloid paper than I would the government.

[Bloggo]

I don't think this is true, or at very least, it is misleading, but I am not saying we haven't a problem.

I disagree. I think it likely that it is true.
Too many people have their head in the sand and are not seeing the social breakdown that is very slowly happening in this country.
There are lots of figures published that point to a decline in social standards and icreased crime levels.
How about the reported 1000 criminals, murders and rapists allowed out on bail and disappearing and the goverment does not know where they are or how to get them back in prison. What a mess!!!!

[JeffG]

i wouldn't believe the government as they have been known to massage the figures. I would rather trust the Mail or some other tabloid paper than I would the government.

Wow! I wouldn't have thought anyone could have such a low opinion of the government!

[Guest_noobree_*]

The thousands of South Africans who've moved to West Berks over the past few years must be feeling rather sick about all this. Or perhaps there's another agenda here? Flicking quickly through the pages at http://www.news24.com there appear to be quite a few stories which emphasise how bad things are overseas in comparison with the Shangri La that is South Africa. Could it be, perhaps, that they want to dissuade more rats from leaving the sinking ship?

Particularly with the replacement of the appalling (AIDS denier and general fantacist) Mbeki with the utterly dire (rapist, deeply corrupt) Zuma more and more whites will be planning to scarper.

Incidentally, isn't it typical of forums like this that they descend into negativity at the slightest provocation. Thousands of people had a great time on Sunday but you lot pick up on a single incident and spiral into a pit of despond. Good job Newbury Weekly News.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Extract from the News24 article..

'In turn, Dean from Cape Town wrote that the news about Britain's crime levels didn’t surprise him in the least, and that it was precisely for that reason that he moved to South Africa.

"I feel much safer walking down the streets of South Africa. Most of the crime that happens here is in Johannesburg."

People are moving to South Africa to get away from violent crime in Britain????? Enough said.

[Bloggo]

Wow! I wouldn't have thought anyone could have such a low opinion of the government!

Are you kidding, have you forgotten about how our "honourable members" have been ripping us off with fraudulant expenses claims?

[JeffG]

Are you kidding, have you forgotten about how our "honourable members" have been ripping us off with fraudulant expenses claims?

Bloggo, does the word "irony" mean anything to you? It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the comment that he would trust the Daily Mail more than the government.

[Bloggo]

Bloggo, does the word "irony" mean anything to you? It was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the comment that he would trust the Daily Mail more than the government.

Sorry, I missed it. I'll try and do better.

[JeffG]

Sorry, I missed it. I'll try and do better.

[GMR]

Wow! I wouldn't have thought anyone could have such a low opinion of the government!

yeah, I see what you mean..... it is pretty rare that anybody would dream of criticising such sacred and loving government

[Iommi]

I disagree. I think it likely that it is true.

The problem I see with the article is that it is drawing from different sources which in themselves use different ways of collating data. In other words it is not very scientific.

e.g.

"The Daily Mail, however, was told by experts that the fact that "violence" is interpreted differently in different countries should be taken into account. For instance, where a disturbance is considered a violent offence under British law, in other countries such as South Africa, it's only considered a violent offence if someone is assaulted."

Too many people have their head in the sand and are not seeing the social breakdown that is very slowly happening in this country. There are lots of figures published that point to a decline in social standards and icreased crime levels.
How about the reported 1000 criminals, murders and rapists allowed out on bail and disappearing and the goverment does not know where they are or how to get them back in prison. What a mess!!!!

Social breakdown has been happening for 100s of years, the difference now is that we are 'force fed' this type of information 24/7, thus raising anxiety.

It does seem that the criminal element seem a lot more informed and mobile these days and this could be placed, in part, down to communication technology. People are a lot more versed with their 'rights' and how to be a nuisance.

Whether it is getting worse or not is debatable, but I remember what Turnpike estate, St George's Ave, Skylings and others used to be like. I remember being chased through Newbury in the mid 70s by a gang from the Waterside and hearing about the battle between the skinheads and bikers in the late 60s, etc. I remember living near a notorious Newbury 'thug' in the 70s and the Police were always 'very nice' to him, regardless, it seems, of what he did.

[Roost]

Again Iommi, I'm with you. I hate to sound like a sycophant but Newbury, along with many other towns and cities has suffered from this for a lot of years now. It is nothing new. What is new is the young age of those involved and the increase in reporting it via this and other media. A minor disorder many years ago would have likely as not have gone unreported in the local media. Also new is this attitude against the police. I truely believe that most police would like to be doing something about things like this. I do not think I could do their job if I were to join today, and neither would I want to....!

[Iommi]

I think there might be another factor involved. Many of us might have more to lose now than in the past. A large amount of people own their own house, which is kitted out with all the latest electronic stuff. To this end, I think people feel more vulnerable.

My view is, if one could metaphorically collect all the 'units' of ill-doing and put them in a container, we probably would have the same size container as we did in the past (in proportion to the population), it just might be that the contents would look a bit different today.

One other thing, we must all not underestimate the power of the TV over us and our children.

[Bloggo]

Again Iommi, I'm with you. I hate to sound like a sycophant but Newbury, along with many other towns and cities has suffered from this for a lot of years now. It is nothing new. What is new is the young age of those involved and the increase in reporting it via this and other media. A minor disorder many years ago would have likely as not have gone unreported in the local media. Also new is this attitude against the police. I truely believe that most police would like to be doing something about things like this. I do not think I could do their job if I were to join today, and neither would I want to....!

Well Roost, Iommi, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with how things are.
Personally having had my garage broken into and in another separate incidence my house, both events receiving a very lazy response from the police I do feel at risk.
Also my daughter was assaulted in Newbury.
Worse still is that if I protect myself then I will be treated worse than the criminal yet the police, who I pay a contribution to, won't or can't protect me.
You'll forgive me if I am a little put out.

[GMR]

Well Roost, Iommi, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with how things are.
Personally having had my garage broken into and in another separate incidence my house, both events receiving a very lazy response from the police I do feel at risk.
Also my daughter was assaulted in Newbury.
Worse still is that if I protect myself then I will be treated worse than the criminal yet the police, who I pay a contribution to, won't or can't protect me.
You'll forgive me if I am a little put out.

I am not comfortable the way things are and I blame the police, courts and the government. Blair said he would be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" when he came into power and all he has done is give the trouble makers more power and has made them feel invincible. Where I live it is the worst I've seen it since I've lived there. The town is also worse and speak to other people about other parts of Newbury it is not that much better.

[Bloggo]

I am not comfortable the way things are and I blame the police, courts and the government. Blair said he would be "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" when he came into power and all he has done is give the trouble makers more power and has made them feel invincible. Where I live it is the worst I've seen it since I've lived there. The town is also worse and speak to other people about other parts of Newbury it is not that much better.

Blair and the Labour Government have fed us bull**** for the last 10 years. Their focus has been on making money for themselves and abusing their positions for their own personal advantage. They don't really care about the average man in the street.
GMR, I agree with your observations. Turnpike, Greenham, Thatcham are becoming unpleasant areas to live in.
But I'm sure there are others who disagree and they are entitled to their opinion and I really hope they are proved right in time.
I myself doubt it and see things getting worse.

[dannyboy]

there are lies, **** lies & statistics.

It was reported a few years back that the UK had the worst human rights record of any EU country. But that was only because the UK was the only EU country which had actually returned the EU census on human rights. The French for example had never bothered with the census.

I'll bet £££X that the UK interpretation of Violent Crime, from this source, includes all amnner of events not counted by other countries.

[GMR]

there are lies, **** lies & statistics.

It was reported a few years back that the UK had the worst human rights record of any EU country. But that was only because the UK was the only EU country which had actually returned the EU census on human rights. The French for example had never bothered with the census.

I'll bet £££X that the UK interpretation of Violent Crime, from this source, includes all amnner of events not counted by other countries.

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics” which I think you meant to say. Said by Benjamin Disraeli. And he was right.

It doesn’t matter whether we are at the top of the heap or the bottom we have a problem and it needs sorting out.

Did anybody see the Panorama programme on Monday? Where the police were behaving like Gestapo; that would be fine if they are using their full force against criminals or yobs, unfortunately they are using the strong arm of the law against innocent and peaceful protesters. Using laws that were meant for terrorists against people who have a right to protest. Somewhere along the line the police got their priorities all wrong.

[dannyboy]

“There are lies, damn lies and statistics” which I think you meant to say. Said by Benjamin Disraeli. And he was right.

It doesn’t matter whether we are at the top of the heap or the bottom we have a problem and it needs sorting out.

Did anybody see the Panorama programme on Monday? Where the police were behaving like Gestapo; that would be fine if they are using their full force against criminals or yobs, unfortunately they are using the strong arm of the law against innocent and peaceful protesters. Using laws that were meant for terrorists against people who have a right to protest. Somewhere along the line the police got their priorities all wrong.

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

[GMR]

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

[GMR]

68.5 percent of statistics are made up.

That wouldn't surprise me. The worst offenders are the governments of the world.

[dannyboy]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

European Union = Hitler??

[dannyboy]

That wouldn't surprise me. The worst offenders are the governments of the world.

So in that case you can didmiss the claim that the UK is a violent country.

[GMR]

So in that case you can didmiss the claim that the UK is a violent country.

I never said it was a violent country, however, I did say it wouldn’t surprise me if it was. Secondly; even if the government lies that doesn’t mean we haven’t got a problem; we have.

[GMR]

European Union = Hitler??

Hitler wanted to achieve a single European country (under one central government), a single -currency etc. We are not there totally yet; but we are on our way.

[Iommi]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

Because what we have now is nothing like what he had in mind, so I disagree with your (albeit a quite common) statement.

[blackdog]

England has the HIGHEST rate of violent crime now in the World.
We are above South Africa and Columbia.

At least we come first in something.......

Perhaps we are actually just better at reporting and recording violent crime than anywhere else?

Look at the murder rates:

1. Columbia - 61.78 murders per 100,000 population
2. South Africa - 49.60

24. USA - 4.28

40. France - 1.73

46. UK - 1.40

I think I would rather be here than Columbia.

Figures from www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[GMR]

Because what we have now is nothing like what he had in mind, yours is an absurd, albeit quite common, statement.

I didn’t say it was exactly like that and also there was an element of tongue-in-cheek. Why do you take everything so literally or do you have problems distinguishing between irony and factual? You are becoming quite predictable of late. You are like a rabbit caught between the bright lights.

Another Hitler - as he was -could never come again. However, if somebody wanted to achieve such goals they would have to go down a different route. Hitler wanted one government to rule over Europe. Fact; over 80% of our laws are made in Europe. Europe has a single currency. Hitler was in the process of achieving that. We are coming more controlled than we ever were; Hitler wanted that. I could go on. Any historian worth is his salt will tell you that we are going down a very dangerous route. I suggest you engage your brain before putting pen to paper. I study history among other things so I do know what I am talking about; you don’t. Your only motive - it seems - is to jump in with both feet.

Why do you think we have a very large movement in this country that is against Europe? Even Churchill was dead against the European Union. "For the Europeans," he said, "not for us." I suggest you stop showing your true colours and think before your act.

[Iommi]

I didn’t say it was exactly like that and also there was an element of tongue-in-cheek.

If so then would you please use a smiley, you usually do when you post one of your jokes.

Why do you take everything so literally or do you have problems distinguishing between irony and factual? You are becoming quite predictable of late. You are like a rabbit caught between the bright lights.

It didn't take long for you to start hurling insults, just because I criticised one of your points of view. I regret bitterly that you so quickly become abusive and condescending at any criticism (from me).

Another Hitler - as he was -could never come again. However, if somebody wanted to achieve such goals they would have to go down a different route. Hitler wanted one government to rule over Europe. Fact; over 80% of our laws are made in Europe. Europe has a single currency. Hitler was in the process of achieving that. We are coming more controlled than we ever were; Hitler wanted that. I could go on. Any historian worth is his salt will tell you that we are going down a very dangerous route. I suggest you engage your brain before putting pen to paper. I study history among other things so I do know what I am talking about; you don’t. Your only motive - it seems - is to jump in with both feet.

The thing is though, the way the EU go about their business to unify Europe is a lot more peaceful than Adolf's method. I must say also, you are in danger of winning the Godwin's Law award.

Why do you think we have a very large movement in this country that is against Europe? Even Churchill was dead against the European Union. "For the Europeans," he said, "not for us." I suggest you stop showing your true colours and think before your act.

I won't try telling you how to post. It also seems that you have no wish to debate rationally and with any sense of decorum, so I'll leave this here for anyone else to decide.

[scott]

I think Hitler would be proud. With that and the European Union coming along nicely he would be a very happy man. Why did we defeat him only to create what he set out to do?

Create a "super race" of 6ft tall blonde people and wipe out the jewish population?

So thats what they do in Brussels!

[GMR]

If so then would you please use a smiley, you usually do when you post one of your jokes.

Actually not everybody uses smilies when they use irony; why just pick on me? Unless it is personal.

It didn't take long for you to start hurling insults, just because I criticised one of your points of view. I regret bitterly that you so quickly become abusive and condescending at any criticism (from me).

I wasn’t abusive but I stated as I saw things and going by your other troll like posts. You seem to target certain people and don’t treat everybody the same. If you were fair and just then I wouldn’t mind.

The thing is though, the way the EU go about their business to unify Europe is a lot more peaceful than Adolf's method.

I totally agree with you and didn’t I actually say something similar? Try reading my post, instead of trying to find something to use against me all the time; that way we might have a more intelligent debate.

I won't try telling you how to post. It also seems that you have no wish to debate rationally and with any sense of decorum, so I'll leave this here for anyone else to decide.

A case of the pot calling the kettle black. I do wish to debate rationally, it is you who is more interested in trying to find faults that are not actually there, but in your mind.

I also agree about letting others decide; forums are not just about debates, but others observing and making their own mind up. I am happy to be judged.

A bit of advice; don’t jump in with both feet in the hope of scoring points; find out what the person is trying to say if you are unable to work it out yourself. That way you might find out it is not as you first thought.

Regards,

Glenn

[Iommi]

Actually not everybody uses smilies when they use irony; why just pick on me?

Simply because no-one else reacts like you do if they are misunderstood. I suggested a smiley so that you can alert people to your 'joke'. I wasn't the only one on here and other threads that have not got your 'jokes'.

Unless it is personal... blah, blah, blah ...A bit of advice; don’t jump in with both feet in the hope of scoring points; find out what the person is trying to say if you are unable to work it out yourself. That way you might find out it is not as you first thought.

This is what my post would have been like, had I been you and I had just been misunderstood.

Iommi, I was actually joking!

My reply would have been something like...

Oops, sorry, it didn't look like it to me.

Sadly, you decided to go overboard and sling abuse at me, despite the fact this is a thread I started and have had a closer interest in than others. Has it not occurred to you that we all don't think, read, understand the same. Terse posts on a forum can look a lot different than what is meant. The metre of your post in question was such that it would be impossible to tell if it were meant seriously or not, so to slag me down for being crass is out of order.

I will say though, I think you are simply back peddling as you probably see for yourself the daftness of what you said. I was not the only person to criticise your comment.

If you genuinely feel I am picking on you, I can assure you I am not. I have to remind you that you post a lot more than other people so it is logical that you are more likely to post something controversial. There have been several posts that you have made that I think are rubbish, but I have remained reticent for the sake of decorum and a general lack of interest in the subject in question. If I were to really post what I think about some of your more 'esoteric' statements, you would really have grounds to think I was targeting you.

If I offend or upset you then I will apologise now, but I will post what I want and if you think I am being abusive, I would ask that you PM me, or report me to the Mods. In fact I insist you do so. You are potentially ruining this thread, if not this forum.

PS - If any of my posts end with a , it is to be treated with a pinch of salt.

[GMR]

The trouble is you are not me and never will be.

Sadly, you decided to go way overboard and sling abuse at me.

You may say that, but I don’t see it that way. My response was to your constant nitpicking.

Has it not occurred to you that we all don't think, read, understand the same.

That is true, but you seem to be the only one who has a problem with understanding my posts, others interact ok; maybe you are right though and maybe I should have been a bit more tolerant towards you; for that I apologise.

Terse posts on a forum can look a lot different than what is meant. The metre of your post in question was such that it would be impossible to tell if it were meant seriously or not.

Then try asking instead of coming out with constant sarcastic comments all the time; that doesn’t help anybody.

I will say though, I think you are simply back peddling as you probably see for yourself the daftness of what you said. I was not the only person to criticise your comment.

I haven’t read anybody criticising my comments; maybe I read them as they were meant to be, where you read them to find deliberate faults to back you up and have reason to jump in with both feet.

There have been a several posts that you have made that I think are rubbish, but I have remained reticent for the sake of decorum and a general lack of interest in the subject in question.

I find a lot of your posts in the same light; the only think is I don’t nitpick but let you get on with it. You, on the other hand just want target practice.

If I offend or upset you then I will apologise now, BUT I WILL post what I want to and if you think I am being abusive, I would ask that PM me, or report me to the Mods. In fact I insist you do so. You are potentially ruining this thread, if not this forum.

I will respond likewise; if you have a problem understanding then contact me by post so that we can take this pettiness of the boards and keep them where they belong; in PM’s.

I am not ruining anything, but you by your childish digging all the time. If you care for this boards as I do then I suggest we, in future, put our concerns in PM’s and please stop being so niggling.... as you should have done with your last post. This is neither the time or place.

Regards,

Glenn

[Iommi]

Right then!!! <clears throat>

You may say that, but I don’t see it that way. My response was to your constant nitpicking.

If you can show where I have been constantly nitpicking, then I will apologise.

That is true, but you seem to be the only one who has a problem with understanding my posts, others interact ok; maybe you are right though and maybe I should have been a bit more tolerant towards you; for that I apologise.

Sarcasm is no apology!

Regards other people not understanding, here's two on top of mine!

European Union = Hitler??

Create a "super race" of 6ft tall blonde people and wipe out the jewish population? So thats what they do in Brussels!

Then try asking instead of coming out with constant sarcastic comments all the time; that doesn’t help anybody.

My reply was NOT sarcastic, it was genuine, but if you want the meaning of sarcasm... go and look it up in a dictionary!

I haven’t read anybody criticising my comments; maybe I read them as they were meant to be, where you read them to find deliberate faults to back you up and have reason to jump in with both feet.

Again...

European Union = Hitler??

Create a "super race" of 6ft tall blonde people and wipe out the jewish population? So thats what they do in Brussels!

And if I remember correctly, Bill1 (my chum ) accused you yesterday of showing your 'true colours', not withstanding that the previous poster cast shame on your misunderstood post. It won't be hard to find more.

(More...)

[Iommi]

I find a lot of your posts in the same light; the only think is I don’t nitpick but let you get on with it. You, on the other hand just want target practice.

The fact we are having this argument now is evidence this is untrue. The reason I appear to respond more often to you, is likely that you write more posts that I find debatable, but please, show me where I abuse you in this or other posts beyond the last spat we had. I said your statement (NOT YOU) was absurd. Show me how and taking into consideration at least two other people appear to feel similarly, I was nitpicking.

I will respond likewise; if you have a problem understanding then contact me by post so that we can take this pettiness of the boards and keep them where they belong; in PM’s.

If the grammar in your post is such that I don't understand, I will indeed seek clarification, but I cannot be held responsible for my reacting to an ambiguous post, just as others do and have done.

I am not ruining anything

I notice that you often start a sentence like, 'I am not <insert verb/adjective, etc>. The fact people like me and others think you are, must throw some doubt in to you mind, eh?

but you by your childish digging all the time. If you care for this boards as I do then I suggest we, in future, put our concerns in PM’s and please stop being so niggling.... as you should have done with your last post. This is neither the time or place.

If you weren't insistent in being so insincere, you might make it easier for me to do so.

I notice you crave the last word and to prove it, I bet you reply to this post!

[GMR]

The fact we are having this argument now is evidence this is untrue. The reason I appear to respond more often to you, is likely that you write more posts that I find debatable, but please, show me where I abuse you in this or other posts beyond the last spat we had. I said your statement (NOT YOU) was absurd. Show me how and taking into consideration at least two other people appear to feel similarly, I was nitpicking.


If the grammar in your post is such that I don't understand, I will indeed seek clarification, but I cannot be held responsible for my reacting to an ambiguous post, just as others do and have done.


I notice that you often start a sentence like, 'I am not <insert verb/adjective, etc>. The fact people like me and other think you are, must throw some doubt in to you mind, eh?


If you weren't insistent in being so insincere, you might make it easier for me to do so.

I notice you crave the last word and to prove it, I bet you reply to this post!

it seems you crave the last word my friend...

In your previous post you said I was spoiling this thread and that we should stick to PM’s. You seem to be unable to understand your own words and continue to try to make a spectacle of yourself. You are somebody who obviously wants attention desperately. Why you focused on me God only knows; you probably have some weird crush or something on me or having nothing better to do other than this constant diatribe of yours. Find yourself a girlfriend or buy yourself a mirror but let us stop messing up these boards.

[Iommi]

it seems you crave the last word my friend...

He shoots, he scores!!!

In your previous post you said I was spoiling this thread and that we should stick to PM’s. You seem to be unable to understand your own words and continue to try to make a spectacle of yourself. You are somebody who obviously wants attention desperately. Why you focused on me God only knows

Because you are so easy to wind-up and I love seeing you desperately trying to wind me up!

In truth, my reply to your Hitler nonsense was serious, but after your daft reply, I couldn't resist having a dig. Your too predictable, I'm only winding.

[GMR]

He shoots, he scores!!!




Because you are so easy to wind-up and I love seeing you desperately trying to wind me up!

In seriousness, my reply to your Hitler nonsense was serious, but after your daft reply, I couldn't resist having a dig, you too predictable. I'm only winding.

No, you are spoiling these boards. You have no wish for serious debate but just "wind" people up, your word. I suggest you get a life instead of devoting it to me just to show that I am "predicatable," and your cheap attacks. You are a hypocrite as you say one thing and then do another. Get a life.

What i said about Hitler was based on facts and what scholars/ historians have said about the European union; you can't see that, but you are showing your limits.

[Iommi]

No, you are spoiling these boards. You have no wish for serious debate but just "wind" people up, your word. I suggest you get a life instead of devoting it to me just to show that I am "predicatable," and your cheap attacks. You are a hypocrite as you say one thing and then do another. Get a life. What i said about Hitler was based on facts and what scholars/ historians have said about the European union; you can't see that, but you are showing your limits.

You take life too seriously I like a serious debate as much as anyone, but you come out with so much guff.

[GMR]

You take life too seriously I like a serious debate as much as anyone, but you come out with so much guff.

There are times and places my friend. If I started mucking things up where you where being serious would you mind? Actually I don't come out with "guff" but you, and you've admitted it. You've obviously got no outside life and have decided to devote what you do have to winding people up.

[Iommi]

There are times and places my friend. If I started mucking things up where you where being serious would you mind? Actually I don't come out with "guff" but you, and you've admitted it. You've obviously got no outside life and have decided to devote what you do have to winding people up.

Give us a kiss




"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
Ill be watching you..."


Here's the deal, you abuse me and my serious posts and I'm gonna take the peace, OK! My reply to your Hitler post was genuine and nothing to do with stalking... that is utterly laughable. I agree with some of your posts, but the Hitler one, well that took the biscuit, it was almost an insult to those that died and to those who work in Europe so that it won't happen again. I think you owe them an apology.

[GMR]

Give us a kiss




"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
Ill be watching you..."


Here's the deal, you abuse me and my serious posts and I'm gonna take the peace, OK! My reply to your Hitler post was genuine and nothing to do with stalking... that is utterly laughable. I agree with some of your posts, but the Hitler one, well that took the biscuit, it was almost an insult to those that died and to those who work in Europe so that it won't happen again. I think you owe them an apology.

No, here’s the deal; you stop making snide remarks against everything I say, instead of making intelligent remarks which most of the people do on here then I will stop reacting.

Why is it “laughable”? You’ve admitted that you like “winding me up” and to do that you have to follow me around; by your own admission you are that person.

Most people on here want to debate about what concerns them, as I do. You just want to take the Michael all the time. Find another victim or get a life.

[Iommi]

No, here’s the deal; you stop making snide remarks against everything I say

Everything, moi? (mind the French, they are after our boarders!)

instead of making intelligent remarks which most of the people do on here then I will stop reacting.

Eh? You want me to stop posting intelligent remarks? make your mind up!

Why is it “laughable”? You’ve admitted that you like “winding me up” and to do that you have to follow me around; by your own admission you are that person.

I do have a go when you start being pompus and rude to me, but I never try to start it, I just reply as I see fit. Indeed, I find it quite disappointing when I see you have replied to someone because I know that it is 50/50 that it will be a pointless post.

Most people on here want to debate about what concerns them, as I do. You just want to take the Michael all the time. Find another victim or get a life.

Not at all, I primarily want to debate important topics as well, but you so often go off topic and post pointless messages but, MOST OF ALL, sling abuse at me, then I WILL reply robustly to your guff!

XXX

PS - Any chance that you might post an even slightly original reply to mine as apposed to just re-wording things I say!

[Darren]

Can I suggest you both continue this privately, by PM, carrier pigeon, heavy artillery or any other means.

Thank you.

[Iommi]

Can I suggest you both continue this privately, by PM, carrier pigeon, heavy artillery or any other means. Thank you.

He started it!

No you are right, I'm sorry, but please post something that might bring us back on topic? ...but don't mention the war, I did once, but I think I got away with it!

[GMR]

Can I suggest you both continue this privately, by PM, carrier pigeon, heavy artillery or any other means.

Thank you.

I agree, and that is what I've been trying to do.

[Iommi]

I agree, and that is what I've been trying to do.

Not very well, it seems, as I have yet to get a PM from you today!

[Branston Pickle]

Not very well, it seems, as I have yet to get a PM from you today!

Have you checked outside for any carrier pigeons?

[Guest_Bill1_*]

He started it!

No you are right, I'm sorry, but please post something that might bring us back on topic? ...but don't mention the war, I did once, but I think I got away with it!

"You started it."

"No I didn't."

"Yes you did you invaded Poland."

[Andy]

....and later today, we'll be looking through the.........round window

[Instigator]

Can't you two just hug it out?!! I'm pretty new to these boards but I often see the two of you just baiting each other. learn to love, or failing that ignore each other?!

[Iommi]

Can't you two just hug it out?!! I'm pretty new to these boards but I often see the two of you just baiting each other. learn to love, or failing that ignore each other?!

How do you know we are different people? He might be me!

[JMH]

How do you know we are different people? He might be me!

Or he might be you!

[Iommi]

Or he might be you!

I never thought of that! Who am I?

[Guest_Bill1_*]

I never thought of that! Who am I?

Me?

[Iommi]

Me?

I'm not convinced.

[Guest_Bill1_*]

Where's it gone?

[Instigator]

How do you know we are different people? He might be me!

So if you are me and he is you, that means we now have a 3rd personality that I didnt even know about?! great, even my split personality ignores me!

[Guest_Bill1_*]

So if you are me and he is you, that means we now have a 3rd personality that I didnt even know about?! great, even my split personality ignores me!

Who said that?

[Instigator]

Who said that?

They did!

[Guest_Bill1_*]

They did!

Did we?