these being the allotment holders who have no wish to be self run?

greed? greed would be making an outrageous profit.

That's the only way I can see it working, otherwise it's just pie in the sky.

(And where does that daft expression come from? )

I think his choice of words were 'unfortunate', but I think I know what he means. Tax payers shouldn't be supporting private enterprise.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/282700.html

Now we're seriously off topic!

I've certainly heard that argument before, particularly directed at supermarkets, but I'm not wholly convinced. It's not in the retailer's interests to squeeze their suppliers so tight that they can't produce sustainably, and the supplier has some responsibility here only to sell at a sustainable price. The agricultural industry seems to have been particularly feckless here, though that's a thread in its own right sure enough.

But if an independent goes head to head with a national on the same terms, then the independent is going to lose, but as a consumer I still get a good deal. I'm not going to buy my veggies from a family green grocer out of some emotional committment to tradition, I'm going to buy everything at Tesco because it's cheaper and more convenient.

A free market seems like the best option for the highstreet because retailers will compete for my custom, and if they make the highstreet more appealing and interesting through collective investment that's only possible through a mandatory levy then I'd like to see them do that.

LOL, that is a good one. The global economy is propped up by the tax payer.

The consumer's efforts to focus on price and convenience, isn't necessarily good for sustainability, nor their own good. We already have food that is shipped from round the world to maintain supply and demand for out of season food. I have also heard that supermarkets are not always the cheapest, although they are convenient.

You find it funny?

The fact it is so - nope.

Well, now you're talking more about environmental sustainability than commercial sustainability, but that doesn't really affect the national/independent argument, though it's true that our purchasing decisions are motivated by more than just price and convenience, and actually it's this that creates niche markets that are often best filled by independents. Does any of that take anything away from the free market?

yes.

This thread has gone way off topic. What is important Simon is that inependents and smaller businesses provide a more diverse shopping experience. Without those guys, we would be just another identikit town centre. This is why the BID needs to fully consider those traders and show how it will benefit the town centre as a whole. At present, the BID proposal looks like an additional business tax to provide services slashed by the council which should be provided as part of the traders business rates.

As nobody is answering the important questions either here or on Newbury.net - how can anyone take it seriously?

Who is paying for the research and study into the feasability of the proposed BID scheme?

Who will be apointed to run it, what is the selection process and how much will they earn?

What are the benefits to smaller traders and businesses / independents?

Will all nationals have to pay the levy? If not, why not?

And is there a place we can see the plans?

No. To all of that.

Yes, range is important, so a diversity of shops is good, but independents don't of necessity improve range so whatever interventionist regulation you have in mind to benefit independents over nationals isn't serving the consumer, it's just serving itself - who'll be doing all this regulation? That's right, Big Government.

I'm not impressed with the clone-town rhetoric. High streets look the same because we buy most of what we need from nationals, and we do that because nationals sell most of what we buy, cheaper and more conveniently. If an independent can carve out a niche in the highstreet then great, because that adds diversity and diversity is good, but if an independent doesn't survive it's either because they're trying to occupy a niche that's already occupied by a fitter national, or because the niche doesn't exist, and either way it's no loss to the consumer.

The purpose of the BID is to improve the business district, and it does that by employing people who specialize in doing that very thing, in much the same way as department stores, shopping arcades, retail parks, and outlet centres do for their tenants. It sounds like just the job to me, but at the end of the day if the BID looks like a tax to the town's retailers then they won't vote for it, though I think that would be missing a trick.

But to answer your questions: it's nothing to do with the man in the street, and I think the retailers are already being consulted.

I agree, this is for businesses to decide. As punters we can take an interest in it, but it's up to them to decide if they want it.

Regarding what's been said earlier in the thread, the large retailers must have started off as independents at one point. Walking down Northbrook Street at 8.30am today I noticed that many of the chain/national retailers already had their doors open whereas none of the independents did.

Which independents are in Northbrook Street?

There are very few independents in Northbrook Street as they bulk at paying the high rents and rates that go with it. Let me just make it clear that I don't think independents should get legislation to help them, but I don't think they should be hit by what is increasingly looking like an extension of business rates. If all local traders must contribute, all national companies should have to contribute too. If people like TESCO can avoid paying the BID contribution, then smaller traders should be able to opt out too. That being said, if the BID team outline a plan to help the smaller traders and attract business to other parts of the town centre, I will support it. I'm just growing more and more concerned by the lack of available answers to the questions that I and others have raised.

And where does the tax payer get his money from? Possibly the private sector?

Without the private sector, be they large multinational companies or a corner shop there would be no economy, simple as that.

Simon Kirby - try actually shopping with an independent, you may just be surprised to find you local greengrocer actually has much fresher stock and cheaper (often much cheaper) than Tesco. You've been suckered into presuming a supermarket is cheaper just because they pile it high.

Sorry, had given up with this forum and the ignorance show by some - but couldn't let this go.

Trouble is there isn't a local greengrocer is there? - apart from the market.

You should think about being more traditional and growing your own - very inconvenient but I'm told its a rewarding experience. Perhaps you should get an allotment.

He is too busy supplying tesco from his market garden