Newbury Town Centre Partnership is planning a public consultation on raising 1% business tax from town centre businesses to be used to improve things like safety, visitor numbers and appearance, which involves putting together a Business Improvement District business plan.

It looks like overheads for this are about 20%, with the other 80% of funds raised going directly to improvements.

In the absence of any public consultation, I thought I'd start a thread to find out what we think. (PS I'm in favour).

See here for how it's going in Reading.

Sounds like a good idea, for a trial at least.

Who actually raises the money though, can the TCP levy tax on businesses in Newbury?

I believe you need government permission, and the tax is usually collected by the district council and passed on.

A quick win I can think of is that the Christmas lights could be handed over to them, and so would no longer be taxpayer funded....and so should lead to a cut in council tax from Newbury Town Council.

...or frees up cash for other needs (like an ageing population). A reduction of CT is highly unlikely.

Not the best idea given that the biggest competitive threat is Newbury Retail park. Frankly, the best way to solve this would be to tax ALL benefits in kind properly. That means the 'free car parks' at most supermarkets and retail parks. That would have been done had HMG not been so scared of Tesco.

Rasing taxes for the town centre only would be regressive - just another nail. Cutting tax is the only way in our economy - good old Adam Smith again.

And the voter. Giving Tesco et al the need to put prices up because of parking tax would also give supermarkets the ammo to accuse the government of loading the burden on the poor as well. Not the wisest idea from a political point of view.

I suppose it depends on if you are a shopkeeper, already hit by sky high rents and business rates, or not.

The majority of shops in town seem to cope with supposedly "sky high rents and business rates".

Perhaps those that can't are in the wrong business?

My concern would be that the high street and Kennet Centre are almost full at the minute, if we are going to do anything we need to look at ways of improving the northern end of Northbrook Street and the southern parts of the town centre. Lets say we go for the BID, and we spend money on events in the town centre etc. Where will those events be held?

I suppose what I'm getting at is what will the benefit be to the smaller, independent traders who already feel sidelined when events take place? Those businesses who can't afford to be in the middle of town, and take smaller cheaper units on the edge of town. I think the health of Newbury Town Centre is relatively good right now, and things like a BID can have a negative impact (Sleaford is the perfect example). I'm all for exploring it as an option, providing other options are being looked at too.

Recently, I saw on TV the other day, that Newbury is a growing retail environment, where as places like Reading are shrinking. I'm surprised nothing was mentioned on here about this.

I don't give a stuff about independent retailers. Should I? I'm interested in range, price, and convenience. If a BID gives its members a competative advantage because they can invest in their retail environment then great, and if independents can't survive then sorry, but that's progress. Actually I'd have thought a well managed BID would create local distinctiveness as part of its branding and that would be the saving of the small retailer, but the BID is only as good as the retailers allow it to be.

A fairly good point. It will only work if everyone gets behind it. Is there a web site with figures and a plan of how it will work anywhere? I think if it's what the retailers want, we should all get behind it and make sure it happens. If they don't want it, then we should ensure it doesn't happen. For anyone to make an informed decision, we need to see the plans I guess. Every example I've seen has had a negative impact, but that is not to say it can't work here if it is run and planned correctly.

On a side note, if it goes ahead, who will run it and how will that person be selected?

Given that twenty years ago most supermarkets were town centre and didn't have car parks. Having to drive some way out of town to buy these 'cheap goods' hardly helps the poor. Politics is all about selling your values and policies, although today that's often translated as selling them out as the LibDems are now demonstrating.

Perhaps deserving a thread of its own. However, whilst it might have come as a surprise to some; if you look at the detail demographic trends for the whole area it has been pretty obvious for a while that 'Newbury' is growing. Residential developments when aggregated are on a massive scale. These are set to continue - race course etc. The train service to Paddington is improved and Paddington itself is being commercially redeveloped, meaning a far more attractive commute proposition. That all means the volume of trade in the retail sector has increased as a consequence. If the contibution made by the developments mentioned is removed - then the trading volume percentages are very similar to Reading. It made a good headline and explains why Park Way was always an attractive proposition to the bigger retailers.

So Tesco moved there to attract the Waitrose trade did they?


What do you think was the best out come for the country after the election results were announced?

Waitrose focus is on a different customer segment. Arguably the best place for food stores is in the retail centre. There were two reasons why these traders started moving out, first a reduction in rent and rates and second the ability to attract far more 'one stop' customers who necessarily needed cars. Savacentre at Calcot is a good example. Just outside the Reading rate area and the ability to create a large car park. The car park is therefore a support and promotion to sales - just the same as any other 'come on'. As such, getting the land in effect rate free is a subsidy.

For me the outcome is quite OK. I was a Liberal through my youth and until the time we moved to Newbury. However, having lived through what the LibDems did in Newbury when they tasted power - I've changed my views and would never vote for them again. I no longer think three party politics works.

To form a Government a joint agreement meant give and take on both sides. It should have meant that each party held on to its core principles at least.

The LibDems had argued that tuition fees were a core manifesto promise, a core pledge. I heard their party chair and shadow education secretary say this quite forceably at a public meeting before the election. Sorry, if they cared that much about their principles this one would have been written into the agreement. Were there ANY principles they were prepared to hold on to at all? Indeed in my view as I said above experience locally suggests otherwise.

I largely agree with you except the emboldened text. I don't believe it wasn't a core pledge on the manifesto.

The question is: is Britain more 'Liberal' (or should we say 'fair'), with the Lib Dems in coalition with the Tories, or not?

Back on topic, have a look at these links:

Are nationals exempted from Bid schemes? This suggests they can opt out - http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.a...779146?UserKey=

Plymouth seems to have worked well: http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/plymouth_bid_review.pdf

Rugby happy, coventry less so: http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/cove...92746-26811246/

I guess it all comes down to what you expect from the BID and who operates it. Once again:

Who is paying for the research and study into the feasability of the proposed BID scheme?

Who will be apointed to run it, what is the selection process and how much will they earn?

What are the benefits to smaller traders and businesses / independents?

Will all nationals have to pay the levy? If not, why not?

Just some questions to start the ball rolling, and is there a place we can see the plans?

The questions you pose seem pretty reasonable. Suspect the answers are just as you hint. The benefits seem pretty thin to me - certainly the Plymouth publicity is mainly hype. Strikes me as just throwing money at what is thought to be the problem. Ready, fire, aim! Concerns about the inclusions of 'nationals' also throws doubts on these schemes - without them, this is simply a tax on small traders. Again, tye benefits are very thin indeed. So not convinced this is a way forward.

Sounds to me like another tax on anyone who works hard and is succesful in order to prop up a council who are inept at running a town centre retail enviroment. I would only support this if it replaced business rates rather than being in addition to them.

You seem to be disagreeing with the figures that say Newbury is doing rather well compared to other local towns when it comes to trade. Have you got any figures of your own to back your assertion up?That's because it's positive news about Newbury. Many people on chat boards such as this (and this is true of most local chat boards) like to use them to discuss the negative aspects of an area.

I understand that to a certain extent, but this should have been a NWN worthy item.

Yes, you're right. Which local news was it on?

Yes you should. There is a place for both large retailers and independents. Large retailers turn over huge volumes of the same products restricting the range they sell. Independents need to fill the niches that this leaves and must provide service and products that the large retailers don't stock quality to survive.

If you look at Newbury, the independents are service mainly related - barbers, hairdressers, nail bars and sandwich shops. Tesco doesn't provide these and the reason is that it cannot be boxed and sold with all red tape and procedures that large companies require. They need personal service and attention. There are Independents going head to head with the large companies such as Barry Forkin, Open and Closed and Tiger Tiger. They are still going because you can get a better range of goods and the personal attention that means you get what you want.

Get rid of the small shops and the variety of goods and service drop and the service becomes impersonal

Read my comment in context. As a consumer I'm interested in price, range, and convenience, and I don't give a stuff whether that's provided by an independent or a chain. You make the case for the independents filling a niche. Well fine. And I'm not much fussed whether the town's retailers set up a BID or not. My feeling is that neither WBC nor the NRA have the nous to do the job, and what the TCP have managed with limited cash has been rather successful so I'd have thought they could drive a successful BID. But whatever, I'd like Newbury town centre to be a clean safe and entertaining place to visit, but if it declines I'll go elsewhere so it hardly affects me one way or the other. What I would like to see is the TCP take responsibility for the Christmas Lights from Newbury Town Council because it's a marketing event that benefits the town's traders and NTC has no business spending £50k of my council tax on it when the TCP could do a better job for less.

You need to understand the facts behind the figures. The raw numbers look good but when they are assessed properly you'll find we are on a par with Reading at best. No problems with promoting the area, or indeed supporting trade. Regrettably, this was just pumping sunshine.

I think that's right - such arrangements should be run by the traders themselves. In fact, it would be worth our local counillors pulling right away. Gone are the days when Councils did have a good number of local traders and business people as Councillors or Aldermen, mores the pity.

One one hand you're agreeing when he said he thinks that that NRA (the retailers) don't "have the nous to do the job", then you're saying "such arrangements should be run by the traders".

The two statements are in opposition to each other.

Perhaps I haven't made it clear. Today, we have very few Councillors with any knowledge or experience or even understanding of trading. Therefore, we should leave it to the traders.

So you disagree with Simon when he says that the retailers don't "have the nous to do the job".

What make you so sure they have, when he doesn't think so?

The first suggestion was that the NRA don't have the nous to run the BID, and the second is that the retailers should run retail-promotional events. There's no dependence of one idea on the other.

The NRA barely has the support it needs to run itself so it's not unreasonable to suggest that it isn't the organisation to take the BID forward, but that doesn't mean that retailers are not the best people to understand and manage the town centre retail vision, only that the NRA's agenda and vision lack support. As I noted, the TCP has been considerabley more successful, and the Christmas Lights would appear to me to be a very good match both for their remit and ability.

Isn't the BID all about the town centre retail vision? If retailers are best people to understand and manage the town centre retail vision surely they are the best people to manage the BID too. Shouldn't the organisation that represents them manage it, if this is the case?

If you're suggesting a new retailers' organisation should be set up for Newbury traders if there was any appetite for this wouldn't it have happened already?

The BID will be run by a Community Interest Company which will be a new organisation, but the project is being progressed by the TCP. I would have thought that once BIDCo was operating there would be little need for the TCP as such as BIDCo would do all the same consultation.

I simply replied to your question "Should I care about independent traders". I believe that you should care. You don't. That's fine.
Personally I would prefer a town that's not a clone of thousands of others in the UK and that allows the very things you and I want - price, range and convenience.

Can you tell me which organisation(s) currently represent the retailers?

As a shopkeeper, which I believe you are, shouldn't you know this already?

I think it's important that we put the smaller traders at the top of our priorities. If some of the nationals refuse to pay, why should the smaller traders have to pay? I will be visiting traders between Xmas and New Year to see what they think and to gauge how much consultation there has been. Those questions again:

Who is paying for the research and study into the feasability of the proposed BID scheme?

Who will be apointed to run it, what is the selection process and how much will they earn?

What are the benefits to smaller traders and businesses / independents?

Will all nationals have to pay the levy? If not, why not?

And is there a place we can see the plans?

Sounds like you're having an exciting time in the USA, Richard.

Whilst you are at it, could you ask what is the one big thing that needs to be done now to make Newbury really spin.

I have told you previously that I am not a shopkeeper.

Can you tell me which organisation(s) currently represent the retailers?

Well, there's the Newbury Retail Association, the Town Centre Partnership, Newbury Town Council, West Berkshire Council, Conservative Association, Lib Dem Party, Chamber of Commerce, St Johns Masonic Lodge, Newbury Round Table, Newbury Rotary Club, St Nicolas' and St George's CofE for starters, who all to some degree or other represent the business interests of their friends and members.

Thank you. There were a few I hadn't thought of but it shows that from any retailers point of view that the introduction of a new group controlled by one of these bodies is likely to fail. A new organisation can only introduce more infighting which is something that we have enough of already in Newbury.

Looks like you've pronounced that it's doomed to fail before you've even seen any detail.

The governance model for the BID is really its own affair but I would have thought it would have some kind of elected board directing a professional executive. It can only happen if it gets more than 50% support from the retailers in its area, and whether the retailers think it's a good idea comes down to the merits of the idea and the vision of the retailers. It doesn't much matter to me either way as long as I'm not being taxed to fund their promotional events, so whatever they want to do, I want the Town Council to hand over the Chrimble Lights to the retailers, and I'd like them to hand over the running of the market too.

The detail is at this stage unknown but without the full support of all these organisations, the retailers and the councils, it will be a difficult task to make this work.
If the BID can create enough confidence (and this means solid leadership) then this may work. To be honest, the TCP/TCM (or whatever it is now calling itself) is widely regarded as a self appointed body that doesn't inspire this confidence. If they want to take this on, this is their first task. The Newbury Vision is generally viewed with suspicion and this is their flagship project.
The Newbury Retail Association tried to gain general support but the retailers showed little interest and this is symptomatic of the way that retailers view these organisations.
I sincerely hope that there is enough interest to get the BID going as Newbury Town Centre will continue to struggle without it. The Retail Park has been very successful in attracting custom and this is going to make a BID more difficult.
I haven't pronounced anything is doomed, simply stated the difficulties that the new process will have.

I find that interesting - TCP/TCM doesn't inspire confidence and NRA has little support. So why is anyone even suggesting this should be done at all - clearly, the retailers think there's little wrong? If there was, surely there would be much more support. So, lets just save the time, money and effort.

That's a good point. Why not put it to the vote and see if local traders want the BID though?

So is that a good idea -something called democracy!

To calm any suspicions....the BID is being led by one of the most successful businessmen of recent times in Newbury.

Patrick Griffin is our foremost architect, and responsible for St Barts School, Park Way, Camp Hopson refurb, Newbury racecourse housing, Faraday Plaza, Sterling Towers, Douai Abbey, etc. Patrick's also one of five directors on the Newbury TCP (which is now a Community Interest Company), and with direct taxation, it would surely follow that the TCP/BID group would have to be open and accountable.

In any case, Patrick's got Standard Life on board, so if the 50 new shops vote in favour there's nothing the 'old' Newbury shopkeepers can do, as it's majority vote.

Love it! Do as we say or else. Frankly how this is put doesn't calm my fears at all - quite the reverse. Democracy, but not as we know it.