Any idea whether the lights will be going up around town again this year? And any idea how much the whole set-up costs as far as erecting them, maintaining them, powering them up and then dismantling once the festivities are over? Must be a tidy sum and a potentially large figure that could be saved if we decided to have a year without lights .........

At the risk of being accused of being a miserable begger I rather hope they can be kept in their boxes for a couple of years as one fairly significant contribution towards general budgetary savings..........

Christmas lights twinkling down on rows of empty shops doesn’t really do it for me..........

It would be sad if Newbury don't put up the lights this year but I can understand if the council doesn't this year. I don't think that the major store owners have made a lot of profit over the past year so I don't expect there will be additional contribution from them.
I do hope that Hungerford puts theirs up. Much better than Newbury's.

Think it's in the order of £30k a year - or £2.50 per household.

Tricky one - damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Alternatives?

Use the money to buy a train ticket to Hungerford for everyone in Newbury.

Town council buys us all a Christmas drink instead or subsidises entry to the fireworks at the racecourse.

Make the lights cycle powered, linked to a bank of exercise bikes.

You miserable begger.

It took a while but I knew someone on here would do me the honours eventually.....

Quite agree. And how about Christmas starting in December rather than the 1st November. That would be a novelty!

and finishing on 12th night rather than Maundy Thursday

The lights last year were pretty poor so I hope there will be an improvement this year.

Would I be the only one who enjoys Christmas???

The cost to the tax-payer for the Christmas Lights this year is £46.0k, that's an average of £3.65 per household. Main costs are £23.1k for the contractor, £11.5k for service staffing, £2.9k for the switch-on event, with £6.1k revenue including a £5.0k contribution from the Town Centre Partnership.

Those are the figures the Council publish. In reality the Council give the Town Centre Partnership a £4.0k grant each year so actually the Town Centre Partnership only stump up £1.0k, so £50.0k is more honest. However, the Council don't like to roll their considerable back-office admin and overhead costs into their service costs, so the true cost of the Christmas Lights this year is really £67.4k, and that's £5.35 per household - that would buy a bottle of mulled wine and six deep filled mince pies.

The cost of the Christmas Lights has gone up 99% in the last six years - staffing costs are 200% higher.

I love Chrimble, and the lights are jolly, but at the end of the day it's a promotional event for the town's traders, so why in the name of the Great Prophet Zarquon does the Town Centre Partnership only chip in £1k? And how does the Town Council manage to spend so much money on the thing?

Other towns put on a good show at reasonable cost by getting a serious contribution from the shops that get the benefit, and others give the job to a voluntary organising committee.

Years ago it was provided at negligible cost. I worked for a firm that in october supplied about 2500 RS 40w clear GLS lamps to the council's electrician. He & his labourer would replace the lamps thats needed to be replaced in the decorations & then the pair would take about 2 weeks to go around town & install them. As the decorations were owned by the town & the electrician & his mate were on the payroll the total annual cost of the lights was the lamps. Lamps cost about £1000.

Just leave them up.
#
Christmas (are we allowed to call it that these days? ) seems to last all year anyway!

I agree in principle with leaving them up, but I suspect they are taken down to protect them.

I caught a bit of South Today last night, and just as we switched it on I caught a story about a town not having Christmas lights this year. Not sure what the town was, but do we want to be as miserable as that place??? Come on, the Christmas lights are TRADITION and the event is something where the community can come together in the market place and for just a few moments, we are all in the same place for the same purpose. By all means look at more efficient ways of doing it or passing it to the traders, but talk of doing away with the lights and the event is scandalous!!!

I was not impressed last year, but I suppose with all the government and local cutbacks we will be lucky to get anything this year.

Aaaa-Menn....

You can't let sloppy sentiment get in the way in these times of austerity.... switch the lights off and think of the savings, I say!!

..and talk of doing away with peoples JOBS isn't scandalous? That £30k-£67k could be made to go a long way

There's loads of things the council could do to save money that many of us would be for or against. I'm more than happy with job cuts because I am far from happy with the service we get from West Berks, Christmas lights are something that could be cut but how horrible would it be to see Newbury in the press for being miserly and humbuggy right at a time when we are trying to keep the town alive.

The Christmas Lights are provided by Newbury Town Council rather than West Berks, but you're argument's still sound.

It's easy money for the Town Council because they just bung another sixty grand on the precept and unless you look very hard you'd have no idea how much they spend on so little. (Incidentally, if anyone wants the spreadsheet of exactly what the Council does spend, and how it's gone up over the last six years, just drop me a PM).

I see no reason to forego the lights. It would indeed be a sorry state not to have them, and I'd hand the problem to the Town Centre Partnership and let them come up with the cash, because it's trade that would suffer.

If the retailers want the lights to go with starting Christmas on 1st October then they should pay for them, not the taxpaying public.

Careful what you wish for.....

This year I would think there could be great many towns that will be cutting back on the festive light pollution




Anyone who pangs for such twinkly treats should get themselves down to Southend Bradfield for the annual chavfest....

Of course you might not get any services in some areas of work post 20th October. I wonder if you'll still be dancing in the street and the dole figures rising when it directly affects you.Correct. Why should taxpayers have to fork out for something that's mainly there to benefit traders.

Getting rid of them is an easy option, which makes the town look like a right bunch of miseries. As I said before, can't the traders take it on or at least contribute more??? Is the event sponsored??? Will the radio station not provide the stage and entertainment for free??? It's a town event, why doesn't the town come together to ensure it's long term survival. A bit like most carnivals events being scrapped and handed to public groups, can a public group not look at taking on the organisation of the lights???

Ok - terrible shame about the scrounging workers at West Berks maybe having to work for a living for once (that's if the private sector will even employ these people). I think you'll find retailers have been having a hard time for the last two years already (how many people on here keep moaning about the empty shops in the town), but hey lets get more money from them so the go tits up for sure.

Now please explain how the pitiful Newbury Christmas lights help the towns shops because I just can't see it.

Let's hope for your sake you or anyone you know doesn't get old and need the services of these formerly "scrounging workers". From the little you've posted on here I guess you'll be the first to moan that the service isn't good enough.

After a day including wiping people's bottoms and bathing them I'm sure seeing you saying they're "scrounging workers" must fill their hearts with joy. I guess a cold comfort to them is that once they're on the dole the task will be passed to you.

As someone else said, be careful what you wish for.I agree. Sounds like a job for the Town Centre Partnership or there's even a dedicated Events Manager.

Sorry, I'm talking about the wasters in the council offices on Market Street - not front line NHS/Road sweepers (sorry sanitary technicians or whatever they are called this week!) etc - I should have made that clear.

Pretty sure that I, along with everyone I know will get old - then again that motorway bridge might just be calling.......

But doesn't the Events manager already run it??? My point is that The paper and the radio station could get involved to promote it, with other businesses rallying around to support it and sponsor it. IT ISN'T an event just for traders. It is a community event that is supposed to be an event for the people of Newbury. There is nothing from stopping other companies from getting involved from the local business community.

Let's not go down the road of scrapping one of the best events on our community calendar. If no support can be found, I'd actively support NTC funding the event. But they should at least try to raise the money elsewhere as I think they would be surprised how much support there is for keeping this event going.

How is putting up Christmas lights "an event"?

It is for a lot of people. That is part of Christmas; the preparation.

It's a much broader subject. The switch on event is one of the biggest community events in the local calendar. Also, can you imagine people coming to Newbury to do Christmas shopping with there being no Christmas lights??? Not having them at all is not an option for me, and I think if you asked the majority of people in Newbury they would give you the same answer.

By all means look at how we can save money for the council if possible, but for me it is an important part of our local community. I really can't understand the feeling of some people on here. No Fun Fair because it's a little bit noisey and full of "chavs" when it is in fact enjoyed by families of all ages, no Christmas Lights because it costs the council money and people slagging off Thatcham Town Council for putting on a great series of events that attract up to 50 people per event. Yes, these events do not benefit everyone, but at least people are doing their bit to encourage a bit of community spirit in West Berkshire. If we simply scrap everything for the benefit of those who moan, West Berkshire would be a lot worse place to live.

The thing is, if the lights go up in Newbury it will need upwards of £50k to fund the whole 'up and down' process.

Thatcham will also be looking to put some up... another £20k maybe?

Hungerford? Another few grand...
Theale? I assume they put a few up?

It all mounts up and can they REALLY be justified? The harsher we cut now, the quicker we'll be able to recover from the dire economic position we're in...

One year without the lights is a small price to pay.
Another year WITH lights comes at a steep price...

The Town Council have their own budget from West Berks which they spend as they see fit. If NTC decided not to put lights up, it wouldn't save money for West Berks nor would it cut "The Deficit".

Surely it doesn't cost 50k to get a couple of cherry pickers and a few workers to put up the lights???

I'm sure you know what I meant: an event is something that happens as a one-off occurrence. The lights are up for a period of time. It just didn't make sense.

I suppose you could get rid of all the "wasters in the council offices on Market Street", it would sure save some money. I'm not sure who you'd contact if you wanted to report a problem, ask for advice on various topics or visit them in person though as there'd be no one to answer the phone or to see you face to face. You could use the website I suppose, if you hadn't got rid of all the people who look after the computers, in fact the whole of the council would have to return to a paper based system as a result. You really haven't thought this one through have you.

Anyway, you seem to have turned a thread about NTC into a random rant about WBC so back on topic..That's a bit rich isn't it? You moaning about people moaning.

Seriously though, if there's so much support why not raise the money needed yourself or with the help of others?

This thread is a bit of a non issue. A few people want the lights scrapped, but there is no suggestion NTC are not happy to continue organising them. Should NTC decide in the future that they don't want to do it, or should they ask for help now, then I'd certainly be prepared to donate my time and assist.

It's obviously not a non-issue to some, it's a valid way of saving money. I agree with you though, its not something that should be done.

Maybe non issue was the wrong terminology. It is a valid way to save money, but where NTC have to publish costs of putting lights up and the event of switching them on, do they have to publish what income they recieve from sponsors etc? It would be interesting to see what revenue there is coming in.

If a place like Newbury can't afford 'Crimbo lights', what hope is there for the UK!

If you're going to opine with such authority I don't think it's unreasonable that you marshall your facts beforehand.

"Pretentious; moi!"

That's is really interesting - at no point did I suggest ALL the staff in the council officers are wasters, that was you presumption which must be based on something, what I wonder? It's very common knowledge that all councils are overstaffed hence the cuts that are being made, that is pure and simple fact.

Anyway back on topic, no one has yet come up with a reason why the retailers should pay more than they do already, or what benefit the lights are to the shops - any ideas?

Nice try at trying to dig yourself out but at no point did you suggest you weren't referring to them all. The cuts aren't because of over staffing, they're to bail out the private sector, that's a fact. Do you think the Armed Forces and the Police are over staffed too?

As I said, be careful what you wish for. When services you take for granted disappear because there's no "wasters" to run them any more I'm sure you'll be the first to complain.

Why would you bring the Armed forces & Police into a question about the overstaffed WBC offices, very strange....

Bailing out the private sector - not sure how that works when business rates increased by between 40% and 70% this year, VAT is going up to 20%, rather seems the other way round to me.

I take it you work for WBC as you obviously don't know where money actually comes from

I'll let you into a secret about how the private sector do it - they try and get it right the first time. Plan things properly and if stuff doesn't get done, people get moved to other jobs that they can do or get fired. It's simple but effective.

And if the Christmas lights (yea, back on topic!) were organised by the private sector I bet they would cost far less, and be far better.

The Christmas Lights are a promotional event for the town centre traders who get the benefit for virtually none of the cost. The Town Centre Partnership organise a few Christmas events of their own and by their reckoning those events generate in the region of an additional £40k of trade, so it's no great leap to see that the Christmas Lights generate significant trade of their own - that's not my analysis, that's the TCP. The switch-on event itself brings people into town who wouldn't otherwise have come, and that footfall generates trade because people browse and nosh. Shops put up the decs not out of religeous conviction, but because they know that people spend more if they get into the Christmas spirit, and hanging up the lights in the high street works in exactly the same way. You can tell the Lights are designed to generate shopping trade because they're hung up in the high street. I don't often go into town and I don't suppose I'm unusual in that so if the purpose of the Lights was to bring me Christmas cheer then a better strategy would be to dec out a few of the main roads like the Andover Road and Bath Road, and then we'd all get their benefit - but that wouldn't benefit the traders, so the decs go up in the highstreet.

£66k from the tax-payer and £1k from the Town Centre Partnership isn't a fair balance, and even the Town Centre Partnership recognise that. Actually I do feel a little sorry for the traders because they pay a lot of business rates to WBC and in fairness this is something WBC should do for them. £30k is the going rate for the kind of display we have, and £15k from WBC plus £15k from NTC wouldn't be unreasonable, and then give it to the TCP to organise because they don't have the crippling overheads and inefficiency that plague everything NTC does.

You've said the cuts are because of over staffing. I'm just asking, is this the same in the Armed forces & Police. Are they being cut because they're over staffed?Spot on there.

A slight correction about Business Rates though. As far as I understand it WBC do collect Business Rates, you're right, but it's on behalf of Central Government and all the money is passed to London who then redistribute it to the councils. Yes, I'm kind of nitpicking here, but I'm just pointing out that what WBC charge on behalf of Central Government isn't what they actually get in funding and being seen a Southern affluent area West Berks tends to get less than it's "fair" share.Why don't the private sector organise them, seems like a good idea to me.

So the lights go on, the half dead tree goes up (that really was a disgrace last year) and every one floods into the town like sheep because they have just realised Christmas is coming, you sure? Are the lights not in the High Street because that is the "heart" of the town where (at least in the past) everyone would visit at least once a week - unlike the Andover or Bath Road?

I will agree that a good display, like Hungerford has, does draw people in to see them. Newbury does not have a good display, rather the opposite. I know Hungerford businesses do pay a great deal towards the lights and 100% of the cost for their Victorian Extravaganza (which by the way apparently looses traders money on that day) which is an excellent example of Town's businesses putting on an event (19 years running this year I think) without any Town or West Berks Council's interference. So in reply to user23 - yes perhaps Newbury's traders should take a leaf out of Hungerford's book and stop moaning and actually do something.

There - totally turned round on my arguments now I have thought about it Well not 100% as Newbury's lights are not good and I can understand why the traders wouldn't want to donate cash until NTC guarantee a better display.

The 'switch on' is an event!

As for benefit; it does brighten the place up, which is nice, and I remember as child looking forward to the Christmas lights and enjoying them when they were up.

Not to labour the point any more, but that wasn't the original reference.

Anyway, all this talk about Christmas in the middle of October has quite depressed me!

Haha!!! I'm going on holiday for the two weeks before Christmas and I'm now worrying about having everything ready before I go!!!