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On the edge
Am I the only one to notice, or care that the letters page in NWN is now down to one side - and no Winchcombe. For me - that was the highlight. Is it apathy or frustration that stops people writing in? My family in Camden get the New Journal every week, their local paper - which has four sides full of local letters. And not just the 'thanks for the cash' or the 'celeb. chain letters'. Any views?
Iommi
I noticed that as well. Seems strange. The letters is usually my first visit.
GMR
QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 28 2010, 07:25 PM) *
I noticed that as well. Seems strange. The letters is usually my first visit.


I've written a few but they won't publish them. I also know others who have written in, but haven't got published. Unless it enhances their paper, or it is from somebody important then they are not interested in what you've got to say. A friend of mine use to work for the NWN many years ago and he told me that NWN regarded that section as a necessarily evil. It is obligatory for local papers to have letter pages, but they won't push the boat out behind that. They probably believe now that we've got this forum, so we should be grateful.
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 28 2010, 06:59 PM) *
Am I the only one to notice, or care that the letters page in NWN is now down to one side - and no Winchcombe. For me - that was the highlight. Is it apathy or frustration that stops people writing in? My family in Camden get the New Journal every week, their local paper - which has four sides full of local letters. And not just the 'thanks for the cash' or the 'celeb. chain letters'. Any views?



Yes, but the Camden New Journal has competition so it must show it serves the community, and the letter page is the community. NWN is the only paper for this area so they hold the whip hand. If you don't like it; tough.
Simon Kirby
I always read the letters page. It's always good to see who's moaning about what, and I've had a couple there myself too.
Strafin
I've had several letters published, some which I didn't think would be in a million years. I would assume local papers must like to have a letters page as it gives them a chance to publish inflammatory opinions that they may have themselves without breaking editorial balance.
GMR
QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 29 2010, 12:24 AM) *
I've had several letters published, some which I didn't think would be in a million years. I would assume local papers must like to have a letters page as it gives them a chance to publish inflammatory opinions that they may have themselves without breaking editorial balance.


You might be one of the lucky ones, but they are selective and there are a host of readers that haven't managed to get their letters published. Those readers then get a bad impression of the paper, giving it a selective and elitist feel. Local papers should be for the community, not the few. I've known a few editors in my time and they've told me that what makes a local paper is its letter section. People feel that if they have any gripes they can voice them without prejudices or feeling not part of the pack.
Strafin
Obviously they are not going to publish everything! I've also had lots of letters not published, and several that have been edited.
Iommi
It is funny that this should be talked about, because the letters page is one of the main reasons I used to get the paper. I am now questioning whether I should continue to do so, due to the feebleness of the letters page.
DrPepper
It's a business, and unaffiliated, so the NWN can choose what, and what not, to print. They don't "owe" it's readers anything and if they feel the letters page doesn't justify the cost then it will be shortened or cut altogether.

If people stop buying the paper because a certain section is missing or lacking then it I think you will find it's quickly reinstated.

Then again, it could be that there are no letters being sent in that are worthy of inclusion - they may just be receiving a load of inane ramblings like you get here smile.gif
Iommi
Seeing as few local councillors and the ilk like to use this forum, the letters page used to be an interesting read to see what they thought of the 'other lot' and argue their own thoughts. biggrin.gif
JeffG
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 29 2010, 10:17 AM) *
You might be one of the lucky ones, but they are selective

I don't know if I should count myself "lucky", but I have written a few letters to the paper in the past and always had them published.

It could be because they haven't been political, or been browbeating the police etc.
GMR
QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 29 2010, 10:43 AM) *
Obviously they are not going to publish everything! I've also had lots of letters not published, and several that have been edited.


That is understanable, however, the Letters Page has been shrinking lately. So what I said about it seems correct.
GMR
QUOTE (Iommi @ Aug 29 2010, 10:48 AM) *
It is funny that this should be talked about, because the letters page is one of the main reasons I used to get the paper. I am now questioning whether I should continue to do so, due to the feebleness of the letters page.



I also agree, and I also know you are not alone in those thoughts.
GMR
QUOTE (JeffG @ Aug 29 2010, 11:23 AM) *
I don't know if I should count myself "lucky", but I have written a few letters to the paper in the past and always had them published.

It could be because they haven't been political, or been browbeating the police etc.


Are you saying that the NWN discriminates against its readership?
JeffG
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 29 2010, 11:33 AM) *
Are you saying that the NWN discriminates against its readership?

No. But it might apply its editorial standards to its "writership" biggrin.gif
On the edge
QUOTE (JeffG @ Aug 29 2010, 12:23 PM) *
No. But it might apply its editorial standards to its "writership" biggrin.gif


I've often wondered if a degree of selection did creep in. However, DrPepper has a point about the commercial aspect. Local papers do seem to be under a bit of a threat, a bit like the nationals. Somewhat ironic that quite a few micro papers have sprung up nationally- which focus on the immediate goings on whuich suggests people are interested. Even the local politicos have 'gone missing' - perhaps because they have nothing to say execpt sorry!
GMR
QUOTE (JeffG @ Aug 29 2010, 12:23 PM) *
No. But it might apply its editorial standards to its "writership" biggrin.gif


In other words they've got a policy to exclude the less articulate in our society? Unless you've got an Oxford scholarship please don't write a letter to NWN as it will be ignored. We've got an upmarket paper that is not acceptable or for the oinks of Newbury; does that police also include the readership as well, do you think?
JeffG
Nothing to do with "articulate" (though I guess it needs to be reasonably understandable). I was meaning more along the lines of subject matter - some might be seen in a more favourable light than others, and some might be legally dubious, I don't really know.
On the edge
Can't we get some passion back? Or would that just get smothered by the cuts? Certainly given 'Dave's' view when the coalition first started I can't believe that the local party is all lovely with the Tories! Perhaps they have been censored too. Are we really that apathetic of that cowed that Newbury is the new Stepford? A few good campaigns would do us the world of good - things like making sure public investment is 'down South' the engine room of the economy - rather than being squandered on the ungrateful grasping Scottish. Reading is still investing – why not round here – rail bridge at Thatcham level crossing, dual carriageway to M3 at Basingstoke, the list goes on. Or shall we all just sit back?
JeffG
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 29 2010, 04:38 PM) *
things like making sure public investment is 'down South' the engine room of the economy - rather than being squandered on the ungrateful grasping Scottish.

I look forward to reading your letter on that subject in the NWN smile.gif.
Iommi
The austerity measures have yet to bite. Lets see in 12 months. If what I understand is true, Thatcher will have sounded kind by comparison.
HeatherW
I am surprised by people’s innocence, or maybe I am more streetwise in this department than most. My uncle was a subeditor of a national newspaper. He educated me on the ins and outs of the newspaper world (a lot of it is shocking). Newspapers are mainly a cash cow for their owners (and in some cases for their owners egos). They are not there for the benefit of their readership. The letter section is not there to voice the opinions or concerns of their readers but there to augment its papers selling capability. Letters are picked on the bases of what it can do for the paper, and do not subscribe to JFK’s dictum “ask not what.... etc.”

On-the-Edge does have a point when he said “Some what ironic that quite a few micro papers have sprung up nationally- which focus on the immediate goings on which suggests people are interested”. But the reason for this is when you have competition then they have got to appeal to their audience in a way that will keep them. That is when the local letters page comes in on its own. At the moment we only have one local paper that serves the Newbury area so their readership has no way of getting what other local papers offer in other areas. A competing local news letter forum to wean people away from their competitors.

The other point, and concerning local papers, I wish to make is that they also must please the local police, councillors, shops, advertisers, important businesses etc so any letters that can or could criticises these entities will get short shrift. In other words no paper is going to upset its main links for the sake of individuals or what the mass-market want. More so where there is an area that only has one newspaper that serves the community. When that is the case, one has to accept what is on offer, not expect the paper to serve the community for the good of the community, but for the good of themselves.
On the edge
QUOTE (HeatherW @ Aug 29 2010, 07:49 PM) *
I am surprised by people’s innocence, or maybe I am more streetwise in this department than most. My uncle was a subeditor of a national newspaper. He educated me on the ins and outs of the newspaper world (a lot of it is shocking). Newspapers are mainly a cash cow for their owners (and in some cases for their owners egos). They are not there for the benefit of their readership. The letter section is not there to voice the opinions or concerns of their readers but there to augment its papers selling capability. Letters are picked on the bases of what it can do for the paper, and do not subscribe to JFK’s dictum “ask not what.... etc.”

On-the-Edge does have a point when he said “Some what ironic that quite a few micro papers have sprung up nationally- which focus on the immediate goings on which suggests people are interested”. But the reason for this is when you have competition then they have got to appeal to their audience in a way that will keep them. That is when the local letters page comes in on its own. At the moment we only have one local paper that serves the Newbury area so their readership has no way of getting what other local papers offer in other areas. A competing local news letter forum to wean people away from their competitors.

The other point, and concerning local papers, I wish to make is that they also must please the local police, councillors, shops, advertisers, important businesses etc so any letters that can or could criticises these entities will get short shrift. In other words no paper is going to upset its main links for the sake of individuals or what the mass-market want. More so where there is an area that only has one newspaper that serves the community. When that is the case, one has to accept what is on offer, not expect the paper to serve the community for the good of the community, but for the good of themselves.


And I thought I was a cynic - but thinking about it, I'm inclined to agree. I suppose nationally Rupert Murdoch etc proves the point. So if the cash rolls in regardless they aren't going to care! As to the second point, NWN is apparently an independent - one of the few, so suppose it is in its interests to keep in with the local establishment. That of course does mean 'keeping things in perspective' so to speak. I think at least one other poster here says they haven't had letters printed; so is that the reason? The letter was diplomatically 'lost in the post'!
HeatherW
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 29 2010, 07:58 PM) *
And I thought I was a cynic - but thinking about it, I'm inclined to agree. I suppose nationally Rupert Murdoch etc proves the point. So if the cash rolls in regardless they aren't going to care! As to the second point, NWN is apparently an independent - one of the few, so suppose it is in its interests to keep in with the local establishment. That of course does mean 'keeping things in perspective' so to speak. I think at least one other poster here says they haven't had letters printed; so is that the reason? The letter was diplomatically 'lost in the post'!



It is nice to see the penny drop.

It does not make any difference whether a paper is independent or not, the point is and always will be profits over local communities wants.
On the edge
QUOTE (HeatherW @ Aug 29 2010, 08:04 PM) *
It is nice to see the penny drop.

It does not make any difference whether a paper is independent or not, the point is and always will be profits over local communities wants.


But are they still going to make a profit if they don't give the people what they want?
Iommi
And there is this largely unmoderated forum, of course!
Simon Kirby
It's never occured to me that NWN is anything but a commercial operation, and I can't say I've noticed any particular pro-establishment bias in what makes the letters page and what doesn't. My own most recent letter to be published was described by Cllr Sheldon as "slagging off the Town Council", so on that basis I think it's only fair that I defend it's editorial balance.

My guess is that the letters page has shrunk because people aren't writing interesting letters. It's tough, but if you're inarticulate then the letters page is not the forum to express yourself. But does anyone take enough personal responsibility for anything anymore, enough even to write a letter to the paper? My experience from campaigning against the Town Hall's attitude to its allotmenteers is that people don't believe it's their place to protest against the establishment.
GMR
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Aug 29 2010, 09:36 PM) *
It's never occured to me that NWN is anything but a commercial operation, and I can't say I've noticed any particular pro-establishment bias in what makes the letters page and what doesn't. My own most recent letter to be published was described by Cllr Sheldon as "slagging off the Town Council", so on that basis I think it's only fair that I defend it's editorial balance.

My guess is that the letters page has shrunk because people aren't writing interesting letters. It's tough, but if you're inarticulate then the letters page is not the forum to express yourself. But does anyone take enough personal responsibility for anything anymore, enough even to write a letter to the paper? My experience from campaigning against the Town Hall's attitude to its allotmenteers is that people don't believe it's their place to protest against the establishment.



Then you've been one of the lucky ones. And it suited the editor to let your through. But the fact is the letter pages has been shrinking while the letters to the editor has increased. Why?
Strafin
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 30 2010, 10:20 AM) *
But the fact is the letter pages has been shrinking while the letters to the editor has increased. Why?

Is that a fact? how do you know?
GMR
QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 30 2010, 10:37 AM) *
Is that a fact? how do you know?


A friend of a friend works at the NWNs. I also know of people who have written letters, but they have not been published. However, I will accept that the word 'increased' might be a bit too strong. The fact does remain that the Letter pages has been shrinking and that letters that haven been sent in aren't being published.
DrPepper
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 30 2010, 10:44 AM) *
A friend of a friend works at the NWNs. I also know of people who have written letters, but they have not been published. However, I will accept that the word 'increased' might be a bit too strong. The fact does remain that the Letter pages has been shrinking and that letters that haven been sent in aren't being published.


To keep it simple, there is no money to be made from the letters page. The paper makes it's money from advertisers not letters, and whilst advertising revenues are down the percentage of "free" space that can be given would, I imagine, go down as well - simple economics really.

Also the need for a letters page must be much less now that 12 people use this forum tongue.gif

Anyone written a letter to the editor to complain wink.gif
On the edge
QUOTE (DrPepper @ Aug 30 2010, 11:42 AM) *
To keep it simple, there is no money to be made from the letters page. The paper makes it's money from advertisers not letters, and whilst advertising revenues are down the percentage of "free" space that can be given would, I imagine, go down as well - simple economics really.

Also the need for a letters page must be much less now that 12 people use this forum tongue.gif

Anyone written a letter to the editor to complain wink.gif


Think that's about right. So a 'complaint' to the editor would therefore have no effect. So the real alternative might be a micro paper; or a hint to any other competition.

Agree there is no money in letters - it is simply a pull. A bit like all the school photos - Mum buys a copy so do all the relatives; simply increases the circulation so can keep the advert charges high. Arguably there is the same effect on letters - 'Did you see what I said in NWN...'

Question then is, anyone willing to take a chance with a micro production? Imagine, the Wash Common Weekly, or the Turnpike Terrier.
GMR
QUOTE (DrPepper @ Aug 30 2010, 11:42 AM) *
To keep it simple, there is no money to be made from the letters page. The paper makes it's money from advertisers not letters, and whilst advertising revenues are down the percentage of "free" space that can be given would, I imagine, go down as well - simple economics really.

Sadly i agree.

QUOTE
Also the need for a letters page must be much less now that 12 people use this forum tongue.gif

I doubt it, the same ones still write letters, but they just don't get published.

QUOTE
Anyone written a letter to the editor to complain wink.gif


Would it do any good? wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 30 2010, 11:49 AM) *
Think that's about right. So a 'complaint' to the editor would therefore have no effect. So the real alternative might be a micro paper; or a hint to any other competition.

Agree there is no money in letters - it is simply a pull. A bit like all the school photos - Mum buys a copy so do all the relatives; simply increases the circulation so can keep the advert charges high. Arguably there is the same effect on letters - 'Did you see what I said in NWN...'

Question then is, anyone willing to take a chance with a micro production? Imagine, the Wash Common Weekly, or the Turnpike Terrier.


Yes, then that will have them quaking in their boots laugh.gif
On the edge
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 30 2010, 11:54 AM) *
Yes, then that will have them quaking in their boots laugh.gif


Probably not! However, if I was running a local paper right now, I'd be thinking about the future - which doesn't look too good. So - keep going for a few more years and just fold OR do something more positive, because the alternatives will come and eat you.

There might be a glimmer of hope - this Forum for instance demonstrates 'someone there is thinking' wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 30 2010, 12:05 PM) *
Probably not! However, if I was running a local paper right now, I'd be thinking about the future - which doesn't look too good. So - keep going for a few more years and just fold OR do something more positive, because the alternatives will come and eat you.

There might be a glimmer of hope - this Forum for instance demonstrates 'someone there is thinking' wink.gif



But is it the right person? wink.gif tongue.gif

On a serious note; I agree.
Biker1
The price of the paper has gone up by 25% in the last 2 years.

That should help the coffers a little. wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 30 2010, 09:17 PM) *
The price of the paper has gone up by 25% in the last 2 years.

That should help the coffers a little. wink.gif


The price gone up, the letter page reduced; there must be a moral there somewhere wink.gif
On the edge
QUOTE (GMR @ Aug 30 2010, 10:26 PM) *
The price gone up, the letter page reduced; there must be a moral there somewhere wink.gif


Its War time restrictions - ration books next laugh.gif
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 31 2010, 08:30 AM) *
Its War time restrictions - ration books next laugh.gif


And head shaved. laugh.gif
dannyboy
When I used to bother to read the NWN I found most of the letters so self centred I was amazed they were ever published in the first place.

The letters page was refered to as the 'Paul Walters' page in our house....
Simon Kirby
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Sep 1 2010, 11:22 AM) *
When I used to bother to read the NWN I found most of the letters so self centred I was amazed they were ever published in the first place.

The letters page was refered to as the 'Paul Walters' page in our house....

Paul Walter was doing what he was elected to do - voice his opinion. Newbury Town Council is in the sad state it's in today because councillors want to suppress public debate and the last thing they want to do is go writing to the NWN and getting ordinary people thinking.
dannyboy
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 1 2010, 02:38 PM) *
Paul Walter was doing what he was elected to do - voice his opinion. Newbury Town Council is in the sad state it's in today because councillors want to suppress public debate and the last thing they want to do is go writing to the NWN and getting ordinary people thinking.

No, he was ceaselessly page-hogging the letters section of the NWN.
Iommi
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Sep 1 2010, 02:41 PM) *
No, he was ceaselessly page-hogging the letters section of the NWN.

A little exaggerated, eh? Are you TDAH in disguise? tongue.gif
dannyboy
QUOTE (Iommi @ Sep 1 2010, 03:47 PM) *
A little exaggerated, eh? Are you TDAH in disguise? tongue.gif



His Jekyll?
HeatherW
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 1 2010, 02:38 PM) *
Paul Walter was doing what he was elected to do - voice his opinion. Newbury Town Council is in the sad state it's in today because councillors want to suppress public debate and the last thing they want to do is go writing to the NWN and getting ordinary people thinking.


I understand what you are saying but is it right for one individual to have a monopoly over all others? I remember reading Paul Walter's letters, at the same time I know of others who also wrote in and they were not published. If you read my previous post that fits in nicely with what I had said about the newspaper industry. Walters, I believe, was a councillor so seemed to have priority (as other men of distinction did). He was more acceptable, sadly, than Joe Bloggs to help enhance the papers standing in the community. It used to be that ordinary citizens writing into the Letters Page was the heart of the community, now it is the celebrity.
HeatherW
QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 29 2010, 08:13 PM) *
But are they still going to make a profit if they don't give the people what they want?



They do not have to worry about that as there is only one local paper. People will buy the paper no matter what the it gives them (as you see the case at the moment). Only competition changes the dynamics of the status quo.
Newburymafia
QUOTE (HeatherW @ Sep 1 2010, 05:55 PM) *
They do not have to worry about that as there is only one local paper. People will buy the paper no matter what the it gives them (as you see the case at the moment). Only competition changes the dynamics of the status quo.


You're quite at liberty to buy the Newbury & Thatcham Chronicle. Hot off the presses of Reading. Or listen to Newburysound (which just pinches its news from Newburytoday, or whatever press release West Berkshire Council churns out that day), or Newbury.net (which is essentially one giant letters to editor page), or watch South Today etc.

I'd say the NWN does have a fair amount of competition for such a small news area.

The letters to editor page of any newspaper is the biggest a**eache going, because the newspaper is legally responsible for its content.
Once you've weeded out most of the piles and piles of benign and boring thankyous for this, that and the other, the totally libelous, the ultra niche interest, erroneous information, letters that would be better served as a story or require some balance, you're not left with very much you can publish.
The usual political biccering is pretty much all that's left, and If i was that interested in political biccering I'd go to full council or executive meetings. Which I definitely don't do anymore, and neither does anyone else!

And come on.........what on earth is Christian Viewpoint doing in ANY newspaper?! We could make more room for proper letters by getting rid of that for a start!
Iommi
The letters page up until fairly recently, was over 3 pages, now it is barely 1.
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