Anybody in Bartholomew or Northbrook Street between 3 and 4 pm yesterday afternoon?

I was in town with my son and he was a bit frightened by what appeared to be rival gangs threatening and yelling abuse at each other this was between about 3.30and 3.45 and involved these people running at each other then confronting up close, repeatedly between St Nick's church and Iceland. A man was on his phone giving a running commentary to, I assumed, The Police, but nobody showed up, so maybe I was mistaken. a lot of people came out of shops to watch and someone I know told me it had been going on for at least half an hour before we witnessed it.

Later my wife, who was in Northbrook Street with our baby said similar things went on in an area there at around 4 and some girls were now also getting involved and also racially abusing a young woman of Asian complexion who was just passing by minding her own business.

I'd say the males I saw involved were mainly aged between 15 and 25, except one who was certainly the loudest and most provocative who, as well as looking completely wasted, appeared to more like 30.

If you did witness any of this, firstly, did the Police ever show up? and secondly, does anyone know what it was about or how it ended?

The Police were probably cowering round the CCTV waiting for it to die down.

Surely one the retailers and normal public of Bartholomew street would have reported this fracas to the police or have we all become to accept this behaviour now.
If the police were called and did not respond, I wonder what the reason was?
Seems a great example of police reponse that I often complain about.

I am sorry to say that Newbury is just getting worse and worse. I don't know the answer and I am guessing neither do the authorities. I returned from a short holiday last week and the first sights we were greeted with as we drove in to town was the usual bunch of drinkers loitering outside Peggys in Bartholomew St, shouting up at the window above (I think a group of them live up there) and then chav after chav along Bartholomew St and then Craven Rd, I turned to Mrs Gumbo and said 'Ah it's good to be home!". It is sooooooooo noticeable and really is a giant **** stain on our town.

Maybe the Newbury Weekely News should start a campaign 'Save Newbury!

Yep, a really attractive welcome to visitors to the town who come to enjoy the casual and sophisticated shopping experience offered by Newbury.

The description reminds me of Bracknell (in the 70s).

Does Newbury get visitors then, not sure what they would be coming for - shopping? sight seeing ? quality dining? entertainment?

Guess we have to be grateful that it's only the poor soles that live in Newbury that have to put up with it and the word won't spread.

Ah yes, Great Hollands, I had a flat overlooking the William Twigg. The good ol' days

Yes, these young fogeys have got it made nowadays. No online forums in the 1970s for moaning and whingeing, you needed to write a letter to a newspaper or your MP to complain back then and, in all probability, doing it in your own time and not wasting your employers

All very interesting I'm sure, but does anybody know what happened?

Also I did say I wasn't sure if the Police were contacted, however the length of time it went on, I'm surprised none saw it whilst on patrol.

Fair amount of business visitors. Bad reputations spread like wildfire. I was in Essex a few months back - talking to a business contact. We met up later that evening ror dinner and his wife came to the hotel to pick him up. Chatting, she asked where I came from. When I told her, she said 'Isn't that near Thatcham - the firm I work for has a depot there, poor you awful isn't it'

Agree, business people will have to come to Newbury and will spread the word. In a previous live I spent a awful amount of time travelling the country and have visited every town with a population of 5,000 or more (the criteria for Royal Mail to have a delivery office there - or at least it was a few years back, may have changed now), as such I have seen very many worse towns than Newbury, many as bad, but also a fast amount more that are so much nicer.

Anybody who has been to Gateshead will know how Northbrook Street will look in a few years when Parkway eventually opens, it's already halfway there.

Why are they building more shops when the Kennet Centre has never been full (bar it's first few years) and Northbrook Street has pretty much always had vacancies?

What I'm getting at is derelict/uncared for towns will attract the type a certain type of person.....

Dear Colleagues and citizens of Newbury and West Berkshire,

The incident as reported, everyone seems to accept is intolerable. I would commend all those who witnessed this incident, or have any information, to contact the Thames Valley Police themselves on 0845 850 5505.

I am sure that the local police commanders, Supt. Robin Rickard, Chief Inspector Judith Johnson or any other members of their staff will be only too pleased to follow up any leads.

Yours

Ruwan

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera

General Secretary, West Berkshire Minority Ethnic Forum (WBMEF)

What is remarkable, is how an incident could carry on for so long without any reaction from the authorities. Someone must have reported it; is the area not covered by CCTV?

I think the worrying thing about this is that it would appear that this lack of response is no longer remarkable or isolated.

So how long did it go on for then? And did the police attend or not? And what actually did happen?

Nobody on here yet has actually answered these yet!

Again, an awful lot of supposition but no fact!

Read Bill1's original post which states the time of the incident and duration prior to him witnessing it. Seems pretty clear to me.
You're right nobody has answered whether or not the police turned up. That's what we all want to know.

What supposition?

Please read the original post again, but here's a fact for you: between 3.30pm and 3.45pm, no police showed up.

Allegedly, a lot of people came out of shops to watch an affray taking place, and someone who knew Bill1 told him it had been going on for at least half an hour before Bill1 witnessed it.

Is that enough 'fact'?

Don't have a go at Roost people, he/she is only pointing out that nobody has been able to clarify one way or the other whether the Police were informed.

As for whether there is CCTV coverage in the main shopping streets of Newbury, I'd be most surprised if there wasn't.

If we don't know, we don't know, but roost presumably didn't read the your post properly. Roost wanted to know more than what you state. Roost did seem to have a pop at us in the post though.

To anyone who felt that I was having a pop at them, please accept my apologies. That truly was not my intention.

Those who observed that I apparently did not read Bill's original post are incorrect BUT I did obviously not read it in enough depth, so again my apologies.

What I was, in my own clumsy way trying to point out was that we don't know if it was reported to police, if the police did respond, if so in what scale and if there were any results.

The apparent supposition which I felt was evident in previous posts was that the police did nothing. This may well be the case however we don't actually know!

I wasn't saying they saw it but did nothing, it is that something like this could happen in the high street on a normal weekday summer's afternoon without intervention, is the issue. Like I said, did the CCTV not pick anything up, if not why not? It is because of CCTV, I presume, that we don't have so many police on the beat?

Assuming of course that the CCTV had an operator and hasn't yet moved to Maidenhead or Windsor or wherever it's going to!

You're absolutely right Andy, something that happened as described SHOULD have had some kinda response.

As for the reasons for 'less police' I strongly suspect there'll soon be a new one. 'Budgetary constraints' or 'efficiency drive', both of which of course mean pretty much the same!

Persons with any information relating to this or other cases of anti-social behaviour within the Newbury Town Centre please contact Police Sergeant Gavin Ward Gavin.Ward@thamesvalley.pnn.police.uk

Yours

Ruwan Uduwerage-Perera

I have been banging on about this particular problem in Bart Street for ages as you are well aware.

From what I understand (although this may be just rumour) about 8 to 12 months ago a large group of 'people' from Kingsclere were moved into Bart Street as they had caused so many problems in the Kingsclere area with regard to alcohol, drugs, fights etc.

On Saurday night I witnessed a fight in St Michaels Road where one chap actually choked another guy into unconciousness and was just performing the 'coup de gras' to finish him off with a neck break when a member of the Public from Stan James intervened and stopped him.

I must admit I did not intervene as I'm sad to say they were both 'scum' and if there had been a murder a large number of witnesses were present so it would have been 2 less to worry about.

Some people would say 'how could you be so cold?' but if you witness this every day as I do then you rather just give up and just hope they get their worthless lives over with as quickly as possible.

This is frightening. The suggestion that murdering someone on the street is an acceptable result of a street fight is shocking. Where will all of this violent behaviour end?
Was there any police involvement here?

Where will it end? In deaths. Police Involvement? Of course not. Don't be daft although I must admit there was a large presence of Police on Friday night as I saw quite a few cars and what looked like a stop / search / arrest in Station Road.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article...articleID=14206

Not surprising really.

Yeah apart from the fact that the high police presence was seen on Friday and the robbery allegedly occurred on Saturday.....

A mugging in daylight. Is Newbury turning into some sort of inner city?

It's not the first time, and I presume at this stage it is an allegation.

Are you suggesting it might not have happened?

Unless it is corroborated, it will remain an allegation.

So the police should ignore a report that someone was held up at knifepoint unless there was a witness? You seem to have a pretty low opinion of ordinary people's honesty.

(FFS) and you seem to have pretty low comprehension skills.

I did NOT say the Police should ignore it. I said it remains an allegation unless corroborated. That is ALL I said.

I comprehend perfectly well. Of course theoretically it is only an allegation unless corroborated, but I wondered why you felt the need to make that point. I am prepared to take the report at face value and to believe that the man was in fact mugged and relieved of his property.

Of course, if there wasn't a witness then he could have been making the whole thing up, but on the balance of probabilities I doubt that that was the case.

The worrying thing is that after all the money spent on CPSOs, Wardens, Neighbourhood Watch and the like seems to have been a waste. Crime appears to be on the up round here. And when its reported, the 'Aaah we need some witnesses' attitude doesn't help. Quite appreciate that might be the dead hand of the CPS in action - another example of the justice system not working. Our justice system never used to rely on hosts of witnesses etc. only need two and a Magistrate. Lets get back to real Policing and leave social work to social workers.

We shouldn't be making decisions about how things are from allegations, that is my point. It might, or might not have happened as reported. I would be surprised if it is made up, but it wouldn't be the first time someone has made something up like this. We can't easily say things are bad until we are sure things are as reported.

I understand the police were called (and attended) to Greenham at the weekend. A mate of mine said there were a dozen or more youths all pissed up making a nuisance of themselves in the early hours of Saturday morning.

Don't think we are. This is simply 'yet another' crime story in Newbury. There are far too many and nothing much is being done in spite of a huge injection of money and resource. This one may have been made up - but that does not discount the many that aren't. All I'm saying is lets get this sorted - but properly this time.

Taking into account current circumstances, what practical things do you think should/could be done? I can't help but think that what we have is the result of something done, or not, sometime ago.

The Probation Service should properly enforce community orders for a start. Apparently they don't today and not simply because of lack of resource. We should remove the witholding of names and report court proceedings as we did some time back - name and shame. Magistrates should be far less lenient and be measured against the sentences handed out; which should not include bindings over etc. The Police should be seen on the streets not in cars and not in pairs. For all, on going training and development should be slanted at detection and enforcement - rather than social. None of thios would cost. I've even heard some involved in criminal justice refer to their customers. They only have one customer - that's the Queen.

I agree it is an allegation. I think the guy concerned has 'balls' for making it. No doubt when he was robbed he was told that he would be 'stabbed up' the next time he was seen if he reported it to the Police.

Playing Devils advocate Iommi - How many Robberies / attempted Robberies do you think are NOT reported through fear of reprisal in this area? I'd say 10 robberies to every 1 reported would be an UNDER estimate.

Why?

Because people don't report crime anymore and even if you do it's not likely to be solved.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10912778

I don't doubt some people don't report crime unless they need a crime report number, but I was wondering where you got the 1 in 10 figure from.

Its just a haphazard guess Iommi - I don't have any details. I know from personal experience though that a number of people I know have had this sort of thing happend to them (robbed) but have not done anything about it. Thats all.

My point really is that I don't think the 'crime stats' bear any resemblence to what is actually going on in the Streets of Newbury. You can prove anything with Stats. Do you really believe that there is less crime in Newbury now than there was a few years ago?

I know two people who recently (within a couple of months) have been mugged for their phones, one put up a struggle and won, the other lost their phone - neither reported it. So from my experience 100% of crime, know to me, goes up-reported

I know two people who recently (within a couple of months) have been mugged for their phones, one put up a struggle and won, the other lost their phone - neither reported it. So from my experience 100% of crime, know to me, goes up-reported

I quite agree. Newbury is slowly becoming a place where you won't be able to walk alone in without getting mugged even in daylight.
Newbury has changed, the reasons are probably many but there seems to be a whole new breed of unsavoury people moved into the Bartholomew street area. So now we have another rough area in addition to St Georges ave, The Nightigales, Skylings and some parts of Turnpike.
Unless the authorities address the lawless and selfish behaviour of these people the the "Newbury Vision" will be somewhat different than that which WBC had hoped for.

Skyllings isn't what it used to be, seems ok these days lived there for a few years and never had a problem.
I live in a much posher area now, don't you know! But i got assaulted walking the path from retail park- town not very surprisingly the guys that hit me were coming from "the nightingales".