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shedboy
How wonderful, covid vacines have been stopped at the racecourse so racing can go ahead. Words fail me. Trust the racecourse will pay for all the extra funerals.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (shedboy @ Jan 20 2021, 08:38 AM) *
How wonderful, covid vacines have been stopped at the racecourse so racing can go ahead. Words fail me. Trust the racecourse will pay for all the extra funerals.


My cynical appraisal of the whole debacle tells me that the problem is a shortage of the vaccine, and this particular excuse is a bit of a pinkish coloured vertebrate.
Having seen footage of elderly people queing in the cold for their inoculation, (not local), I am in no rush to join them.

Incidentally try finding the information on persons who have been inoculated yes still caught the disease.
Conspicuous by it's absence.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (shedboy @ Jan 20 2021, 09:38 AM) *
How wonderful, covid vacines have been stopped at the racecourse so racing can go ahead. Words fail me. Trust the racecourse will pay for all the extra funerals.

Irrelevant, there's not enough vaccine to go round, the races pay for the racecourse to be open. I only hope the covidiots who are ignoring the restrictions are made to pay for all the extra funerals.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (shedboy @ Jan 20 2021, 08:38 AM) *
How wonderful, covid vacines have been stopped at the racecourse so racing can go ahead. Words fail me. Trust the racecourse will pay for all the extra funerals.

It’s ok, NHS knew about the need for the closures when they agreed to use the site. Indeed a planned day or so out actually helps with performance. That the vaccine takes a fair time to produce, quite far sighted of HMG to place massive orders even before the stuff had been tested. All this known and in public domain well before start up. So, quite a remarkable achievement all round.

If you really want a cause to run with, go and give the cretins who claim they can’t wear facemasks - there are NO medical reasons not to and frankly, those who claim a mental health reason probably shouldn’t be out in public anyway.
newres
QUOTE (Mr Brown @ Jan 20 2021, 07:58 PM) *
It’s ok, NHS knew about the need for the closures when they agreed to use the site. Indeed a planned day or so out actually helps with performance. That the vaccine takes a fair time to produce, quite far sighted of HMG to place massive orders even before the stuff had been tested. All this known and in public domain well before start up. So, quite a remarkable achievement all round.

If you really want a cause to run with, go and give the cretins who claim they can’t wear facemasks - there are NO medical reasons not to and frankly, those who claim a mental health reason probably shouldn’t be out in public anyway.

Hear, hear.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Jan 22 2021, 10:11 AM) *
Hear, hear.


The wearing of a "face muzzle" is an interesting one. Personally I consider them to be at best compliant, at worse detrimental to my health.
BUT, I wear one without question when shopping or places that I am reasonably close to others because that is a government directive. (The legal aspect is a little "off white" shall we say), and it is not for me to question, well certainly not in a public arena,
Like Mr Brown states, those who choose to make some form of protest or refuse to wear one on some spurious mental health grounds should be locked away for their own safety because they are probably not following all the other rules as well.
The fact that the death toll continues unabated points to something being intrinsically wrong,and assuming current directives are not to blame, then it is likely to be down to noncompliance by a lot of people..

newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 22 2021, 12:31 PM) *
The wearing of a "face muzzle" is an interesting one. Personally I consider them to be at best compliant, at worse detrimental to my health.
BUT, I wear one without question when shopping or places that I am reasonably close to others because that is a government directive. (The legal aspect is a little "off white" shall we say), and it is not for me to question, well certainly not in a public arena,
Like Mr Brown states, those who choose to make some form of protest or refuse to wear one on some spurious mental health grounds should be locked away for their own safety because they are probably not following all the other rules as well.
The fact that the death toll continues unabated points to something being intrinsically wrong,and assuming current directives are not to blame, then it is likely to be down to noncompliance by a lot of people..

I've only seen one person not wear a mask. It's not compliance that's causing it to spread, it's the rules that allow some transmission. It's a difficult balance to strike & I think the government has got many things wrong, but it's a tricky balance to make.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Jan 26 2021, 10:12 AM) *
I've only seen one person not wear a mask. It's not compliance that's causing it to spread, it's the rules that allow some transmission. It's a difficult balance to strike & I think the government has got many things wrong, but it's a tricky balance to make.

Very difficult. The Netherlands are experiencing lockdown riots. And the glorious EU have completely messed up procurement of the vaccine and are lashing out like some sort of dictatorship.🤔
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Jan 26 2021, 10:12 AM) *
I've only seen one person not wear a mask. It's not compliance that's causing it to spread, it's the rules that allow some transmission. It's a difficult balance to strike & I think the government has got many things wrong, but it's a tricky balance to make.


The primary reason of it's spreading is that it is now endemic. The only way to prevent coming in contact with the virus is to live in a lead lined bunker.
This is why social distancing is so important with respect to the elderly, the vulnerable and the unhealthy. The rest of us could, and should, be able to manage our lives in the face of what is a bloody nasty disease. Even the pro lockdown fraternity are now looking to "herd immunity" as our salvation.
The vaccination programme is being run like a bunch of scouts organising their own jamboree because the scoutmaster has gone down the pub. The elderly are still dying like flies in the care homes, as they have done for years because society doesn't give a **** about them anyway, and the NHS is "coping" because it always does.
Meanwhile the country is split on which is the best course of action, and once again only history will clarify, but the question we really do need to address is, "Are we prepared to continue with the present policy indefinitely"?
Mr Brown
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 26 2021, 05:18 PM) *
Very difficult. The Netherlands are experiencing lockdown riots. And the glorious EU have completely messed up procurement of the vaccine and are lashing out like some sort of dictatorship.🤔


I think we can now see the EU fir what it is; a self anointed dictatorship. An early lesson we would do well to heed. These people are not and never have been, our friends or allies.
spartacus
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 26 2021, 06:18 PM) *
And the glorious EU have completely messed up procurement of the vaccine and are lashing out like some sort of dictatorship.🤔
I'm far from being a Robert Peston fan, quite the opposite in fact, however there's a thread on his Twitter feed giving analysis on the EU-AZ "Timeframe indifference" which makes for quite balanced reading.

Primarily the UK was 3 months ahead of the EU.

For ease the text is as follows (it's over several Tweets because of length)

QUOTE
The important difference between AstraZeneca's relationship with the UK and with the EU, and the reason it has fallen behind schedule on 50m vaccine doses promised to the EU, is that the UK agreed the deal with AZ a full three months before the EU did - which gave AZ an extra three months to sort out manufacturing and supply problems relating to the UK contract (there were plenty of problems).
Here is the important timeline.
In May AZ reached agreement with Oxford and the UK government to make and supply the vaccine. In fact Oxford had already started work on the supply chain. The following month AZ reached a preliminary agreement with Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy, a group known as the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance, based on the agreement with the UK.
The announcement was 13 June. BUT the EU insisted that the Inclusive Vaccine Alliance could not formalise the deal. The European Commission insisted it should take over the contract negotiations on behalf of the whole EU. So were another two months of talks and the contract was not signed till the end of August
What is frustrating for AZ is that the extra talks with the European Commission led to no material changes to the contract, but wasted time on making arrangements to make the vaccine with partner sites. The yield at these partner sites has been lower than expected.
The problem is in the course of being sorted. AZ say it is working 24/7 to make up the time and deliver the quantities the EU wanted. It says its contract with the EU - as with the UK - was always on a "best effort" basis, because it was starting from scratch to deliver unprecedented amounts for no profit. AZ is not blaming the EU. But it does not understand why it is being painted as the "bad guy" given that if the deal had happened in June, when Germany, the Netherlands, France and Italy wanted it done, most of these supply issues would already have been sorted.

A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now"

PS According to AZ, the EU claim that it pays less to AZ per dose, and that is why AZ "works harder for the UK than for the EU", is "completely incorrect". It charges the same price to all buyers, wherever they are in the world, subject to small adjustments due to local costs


Peston's Twitter thing
spartacus
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Jan 27 2021, 10:29 AM) *
.... once again only history will clarify....
History will certainly clarify why there is such a disparity in numbers between close European countries. Each country's equivalent to the Office of National Statistics will at some stage look back at overall death figures. Whereas UK is counting every death within 28 days of a positive test as being Covid - regardless of the fact a person dies in a car accident or of cancer or any other terminal illness there are many countries that have not used this methodology and their figures look astonishing in comparison with ours.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 27 2021, 03:05 PM) *
History will certainly clarify why there is such a disparity in numbers between close European countries. Each country's equivalent to the Office of National Statistics will at some stage look back at overall death figures. Whereas UK is counting every death within 28 days of a positive test as being Covid - regardless of the fact a person dies in a car accident or of cancer or any other terminal illness there are many countries that have not used this methodology and their figures look astonishing in comparison with ours.


Spot on.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 27 2021, 04:05 PM) *
History will certainly clarify why there is such a disparity in numbers between close European countries. Each country's equivalent to the Office of National Statistics will at some stage look back at overall death figures. Whereas UK is counting every death within 28 days of a positive test as being Covid - regardless of the fact a person dies in a car accident or of cancer or any other terminal illness there are many countries that have not used this methodology and their figures look astonishing in comparison with ours.


I would imagine that this would be a job for Eurostat since this would ensure that this analysis of Covid mortality takes place in a standardised fashion.
SirWilliam
Politics aside, I must say the vaccination centre (racecourse), is being operated extremely efficiently.
Little or no waiting, the stewards being friendly and helpful to those who fall into the "fragile" group.

If this is being repeated over the country then (hopefully) the end is in sight.
James_Trinder
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 8 2021, 10:08 AM) *
Politics aside, I must say the vaccination centre (racecourse), is being operated extremely efficiently.
Little or no waiting, the stewards being friendly and helpful to those who fall into the "fragile" group.


My parents were both vaccinated last week and they gave an extremely positive review of the service that they received. Having carried out 10,000 vaccinations in the very limited time that they have actually been open for business is really impressive in my opinion.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 8 2021, 09:08 AM) *
Politics aside, I must say the vaccination centre (racecourse), is being operated extremely efficiently.
Little or no waiting, the stewards being friendly and helpful to those who fall into the "fragile" group.

If this is being repeated over the country then (hopefully) the end is in sight.

I don't think anyone could fault the vaccine roll out. There are worries about the second jab and worries about the borders & the SA variant though.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 8 2021, 03:20 PM) *
I don't think anyone could fault the vaccine roll out. There are worries about the second jab and worries about the borders & the SA variant though.


Watch my lips young man.
ALL viruses mutate which is why they are so difficult to control. Covid 19 is extremely infectious and coupled with it's ability to adapt to changing circumstances, could well be around for a number of years.
We will not eradicate it, though it may lie dormant for a number of generations. The Black Death is still with us, though cases are thankfully low, and may well re-emerge when it has a mind to.

With the initial vaccination showing an 80% effectiveness, I for one, are confident that we are in control. One hundred thousand deaths may seem excessive but it is only .15% of the population and is comparable with the SARs outbreak of 2003.

As far as borders go, a virus does not recognise such things, and as transmission is mainly airborne now, it won't make to much difference to the war effort how much control we implement. We need to change the name from pandemic to endemic and remove the fear mongering.
Let's get the country back to work and rely on common sense to protect those who are still vulnerable.
Turin Machine
Yay! Got a letter today! Stabination beckons.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 9 2021, 10:43 AM) *
Watch my lips young man.
ALL viruses mutate which is why they are so difficult to control. Covid 19 is extremely infectious and coupled with it's ability to adapt to changing circumstances, could well be around for a number of years.
We will not eradicate it, though it may lie dormant for a number of generations. The Black Death is still with us, though cases are thankfully low, and may well re-emerge when it has a mind to.

With the initial vaccination showing an 80% effectiveness, I for one, are confident that we are in control. One hundred thousand deaths may seem excessive but it is only .15% of the population and is comparable with the SARs outbreak of 2003.

As far as borders go, a virus does not recognise such things, and as transmission is mainly airborne now, it won't make to much difference to the war effort how much control we implement. We need to change the name from pandemic to endemic and remove the fear mongering.
Let's get the country back to work and rely on common sense to protect those who are still vulnerable.

Don't be daft. The NHS would be crippled.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 24 2021, 05:25 PM) *
Don't be daft. The NHS would be crippled.

Assuming all of my comment falls into the "daft" category, I thought the NHS was?
That is certainly the pretext on which Boris and the Buffoons have based their whole strategy.
SirWilliam
QUOTE (newres @ Feb 24 2021, 05:25 PM) *
Don't be daft. The NHS would be crippled.

Assuming all of my comment falls into the "daft" category, I thought the NHS was?
That is certainly the pretext on which Boris and the Buffoons have based their whole strategy.
newres
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Feb 26 2021, 10:24 AM) *
Assuming all of my comment falls into the "daft" category, I thought the NHS was?
That is certainly the pretext on which Boris and the Buffoons have based their whole strategy.

By saying “and the buffoons”, you imply Johnson isn’t a buffoon. That’s clearly nonsense. But to the point, the NHS isn’t overwhelmed because of the lockdown. But much non urgent treatment is curtailed. Example is that following my cardiac arrest in June, my “six month” check is taking place in March. This is what the lockdown is all about. Keeping infections down to a level that the NHS can treat the worst affected and still function, albeit at a much reduced level.
Strafin
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 27 2021, 03:05 PM) *
History will certainly clarify why there is such a disparity in numbers between close European countries. Each country's equivalent to the Office of National Statistics will at some stage look back at overall death figures. Whereas UK is counting every death within 28 days of a positive test as being Covid - regardless of the fact a person dies in a car accident or of cancer or any other terminal illness there are many countries that have not used this methodology and their figures look astonishing in comparison with ours.

If soneone dies in a car accident and the cause of death is trauma, then it wil not be included in the covid death numbers. It is only when covid is on the death certificate that a death is recorded as covid. The official figures are likely to be understated to the reality.
spartacus
QUOTE (Strafin @ Mar 10 2021, 01:29 PM) *
If soneone dies in a car accident and the cause of death is trauma, then it wil not be included in the covid death numbers. It is only when covid is on the death certificate that a death is recorded as covid. The official figures are likely to be understated to the reality.

The figures being used on the government's daily dashboard of Covid deaths and shown on the daily TV news reports - and recorded on the Worldometer website (which displays Covid data for every country in the world) is not the ONS data and that's my point. It uses the figures of 'deaths within 28 days of a positive test'...
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/202...ovid-19-deaths/
lordtup
QUOTE (spartacus @ Mar 29 2021, 09:55 PM) *
The figures being used on the government's daily dashboard of Covid deaths and shown on the daily TV news reports - and recorded on the Worldometer website (which displays Covid data for every country in the world) is not the ONS data and that's my point. It uses the figures of 'deaths within 28 days of a positive test'...
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/202...ovid-19-deaths/


Apparently the latest wheeze of this increasingly dystopian government's control is a driving curfew for the over 70's between 19.00 and 09.00, because they are more likely to have a health problem, and consequently not be in a "fit" position to drive.
One could naturally assume that this is based on the data collated over the last 12 months.
Mr Brown
QUOTE (lordtup @ Apr 4 2021, 09:17 AM) *
Apparently the latest wheeze of this increasingly dystopian government's control is a driving curfew for the over 70's between 19.00 and 09.00, because they are more likely to have a health problem, and consequently not be in a "fit" position to drive.
One could naturally assume that this is based on the data collated over the last 12 months.


...and doubtless paving the way for more draconian measures aimed at eventually eliminating 'driven' vehicles on public roads.
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