Punish the cheapskates using a cheap day return.😂

With you there! Even worse are the cheapskates in the morning rush trying to get the first class seats reduced. If people want high city wages, then stop freeloading on the travel cost.

“Cheap”?

Relatively?

I prefer ‘off-peak’. There’s nothing cheap about our railway, except the quality.

I also notice the ticket office now issue the crap ticket design the self service machines issue.

Surely ticket prices even at peak times are reasonable? Market forces are working, passengers, in large numbers, are willing to pay the price asked rather than use the alternatives. Sure, they grumble, but then people grumble about the price of many other things.

Quite. And when the railway doesn't work you have the bus. 2 hours to get from Reading when it normally takes 15 mins on the train!! Took half an hour to get out of the car park!!

But it IS an alternative and there are others, a motor bike or scooter for instance. Equally, simply getting up earlier is another. Then, we hear so much about working from home and flexible hours, another is to travel outside the peaks. Businesses are obliged to let their staff alter start and finish hours these days, subject to negotiation of course. If you want the higher earnings commuting brings, be prepared to pay the price. Why should the rest if us subsidise already padded earnings?

Market forces are not working, as I am not able to choose an alternative train they have a captive customer base.

I would use a car except I have incorporated the 2 mile walk to the station as a part of my weekly exercise routine.

As for the options, I am aware of the options; however, that doesn’t invalidate my entitlement to complain; HOWEVER, I wasn’t originally complaining about the price, as uncheap as it is, it was the shoddy service.

I avoid rush hour going home; the direct bus takes about an hour after rush hour.

The bus is quite pleasant actually; comfy seat all to yourself. The down side is that I am charged peak rate to get me in to Reading at the same time as the cheap rate train.

Because many people use the service including the less socially mobile and essential service staff.

Well, as was forcably pointed out to some colleagues of mine, arguing with a Conservative MP, market forces are working and demonstrating the railway service is acceptable and adequate.

Yes, the franchise makes the railway service a minopoly, but it's role is in providing a means of transport, so there are viable substitutes. Secondly, because some of the other market elements, as seen in the Porter model are absent, the Government has appointed a Regulator to represent the customer.

As definitions of what represents good service is almost personal, the only real measure of satisfaction is price. So, if for the level of business the operators want and the price they set is accepted by the customers - all is well. Any customer that still feels dissatisfied can complain to the Regulator. If he has what he deems a sufficient number of complaints, then he is obliged to act.

So, right now, customers are still paying, not choosing the substitute, and not complaining, therefore, the railways are therefore doing a good job.

None of that = cheap.

You'll only get cheap if someone subsidises, i.e. someone takes a hit. Why should the railway staff, directors and shareholders take a hit simply to subsidise the life styles of others? Would you do more than you need to for customers at work for no reward?

I’m sorry, but that routinely happens in many professions to people paid poorly; however, I maintain: it is not cheap.

Cheap is always going to depend on your perspective. My sister thinks parking cars in Newbury is cheap; compared to where she lives it is. Arguably both are the right price. Same with the train, the fare is right. I'd certainly accept that the cost of commuting is high, however the real alternative for those not wanting to commute would be to relocate nearer to the place of employment. As many discover, the additional cost of housing then kicks in and eats any benefit.

So, OK, I agree, the price isn't cheap, it's simply right. Arguably, market forces dictate you only get 'cheap' when the seller wants something in return and cheap will last only so long as that want isn't satisfied.

There is always a reason for people doing more than they need. That's a market forces fundamental. Even if it's satisfying a personal want for kudos; that's the reward being sought. People with a yen for caring become nurses and people who like exerting power over others end up in the Police force.

Now here's the thing, I think it should be a **** site cheaper. If we want to entice more people to use public transport we should make it cheaper, and more frequent, and more reliable. It should never be the option of last resort for some people.

And who is going to pay for this? Unfortunately we still subsidise many public transport services, train and bus. It might be a superficially attractive proposition but who is going to pick up the tab?

Labour are proposing 'free travel' for youngsters, but arguably that's nothing more than actually getting a return on the subsidy cash already being paid out. Labour seem to be learning how market driven economics work; worrying isn't it.

You would think so, but no. Its going to be paid for by 'ringfencing' VED payments, possibly up to the tune of £10b. That's a lot of nurses and policemen, even allowing for the shadow home secretaries math skills. Its just Labour 'clickbait' for the under 21's. next step will be offering 12 months unlimited music streaming! 'cos why not, Politicians are whores so they figure why not buy the votes? It's all going to come out of our pockets, they just won't tell you that.

We all do, seeing as we all benefit, whether directly or indirectly.

It's difficult to see who, apart from the passenger, benefits from the subsidy. Arguably, subsidies encourage the sub-optimal use of land for housing and the concentration of commerce in node cities. Issues recognised by economists since the 1900s. To bring back the balance, market forces dogma has it that price and price alone would do that.

If the London peaks were flattened, London employers would not have access to such a large supply of labour and would consequently look at other alternatives, such as moving to other less crowded locations and encouraging the creation of more affordable and comfortable homes in the City itself. So, this effect round here would lead to more firms and so 'easy travel' jobs in Newbury.

So, we are spending money on something not providing much value and arguably quite the reverse, which would be better deployed elsewhere, NHS, Education, Police etc.

Hard I know, but Conservatives are apparently willing to take the long view.

I don’t think it is hard to see the benefits of an inexpensive and reliable rail system for all. Most of the people I’m routinely packed in with appear to be regular Joes.

Our company moved to Reading principally for the rail hub location.

We'd all like inexpensive everything. Again, like it or not, rail fares are what the market bears, that they are 'packing them in' proves that. As for reliability, the railway industry is arguing that they are investing millions to dramatically improve it. So there is a bit of pain before the job is done. There would be no point if service and standards remain as they are. I agree it's a monopoly service and alternatives are substitutes, however the State appointed Regulator, whose job, by statute, is primarily to protect customer interests, seems to be quite satisfied.

So, in the pure market forces approach we as a nation want, our railway system is working well and effectively. The odd thing is that many still have serious complaints, is that simply a covert personal marketing ploy; never be happy and they'll give you more?

I didn't say the price was wrong, I just said the price isn't cheap. Since then it looks like you have been attempting to pick a fight in a phone box.

Most people believe train companies are ripping them off

Survey of British train passengers found overall satisfaction was down

So what, I'd put money on 'the public' telling surveys they are being ripped off on anything they pay for. Petrol, beer, electricity, mobile phones, groceries, etc.etc.etc. Again, that's market forces, everyone is trying to pull one over. All I was attempting to do was work out if you had a justifiable grevance. Cheap is a weasle word, one man's cheap is another's expensive.

I do not have a grievance; I just disagreed. You decided to make an issue out of it. If it ain’t cheap for me then it ain’t cheap; period.

It is a mistake on your part to assume common = happy.

My grievance is that I believe train operators are contemptuous of its customers.

Aren't all commercial companies contemptuous of their customers? Surely as Adam Smith defined all those years ago, that's capitalism.

Not apparently if you're Tesla!

We can usually choose to avoid those that demonstrably do.

Don't get me wrong, I've merely been parroting the consequences of the ruling political dogma. I can well understand the deep frustrations of railway passengers, particularly commuters. Over the years, its been blindingly obvious that no one, no one at all is listening, let alone even making a few inexpensive gestures to put matters right. The question is then, why? As far as I can see, only a new business model has any chance of delivering let alone sustaining, the service standards needed. The attempting to create a 'market' where one naturally doesn't exist might seem good in theory, but doesn't work in practice - the chosen moderator, the regulation concept has been an expensive failure. Ironically, this is the Conservatives doing what they always castigate Labour about - letting outworn political dogma cloud their judgement.

OK so I can’t get off at Feltham from my carriage, thanks for the warning you POS service!

Oh well, look on the bright side; you'll enjoy a few jars with the compo!

I've been to Feltham, they did you a favour!

Well, perhaps today's announcement by the Transport Secretary, nationalised using the east coast mainline might provide a solution! Wow, so it takes a Tory Government to show Labour how to deliver Clause 4.

Great effort from our POS rail system.

Apparently it's signalling issues. We have to put up with a bit of inconvenience whilst they bed in the new systems and of course, if it's something our maintenance people can't fix quickly, they have to call on the expertise from Germany, Japan or wherever. At least this way resource costs are kept down.

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} Looks as if GWR are doing something about it; quick introduction of a replacement bus service, positive response at least.

And then there’s the POS GWR and their shoitey app. My train is 30 minutes delayed. Fine, I’ll stay at work and let the rain ease. Next update the train has vanished; brilliant, so it sped up and I missed it then? Nope, it was there all the time but a bit later and I could have caught it, but its the cattle truck now!

Ironically, was at a seminar yesterday about UK skills and the future; looks as if we are losing it IT wise, if ever we had it in the first place. Mention made of railway apps. amongst others. As to getting home, whilst chaos reigns, what about the alternatives? One of my neighbours gets a cab when things get sticky.

My annoyance was the poor quality of the app; getting home wasn’t really the issue.

Oh, didn't appreciate you'd changed gripe. Quite agree the app is very poor quality; but as I was trying to say that isn't unusual, so not surprising. Its simply just a symptom of the malaise that's affecting our home IT capability; ironically as further demonstrated by the signalling issues they had in the morning!

Eeek! the leafy suburb commuters have been de bagging the party placement over this rail nonsense. How do we run this one into the sidings.......

An independent enquiry!

What will it say? As a public spirited gesture, here is a draft management summary Mr Grayling can use for free.

'The failure of the operators to implement their timetable changes was wholly down to the incompetence of Netwirk Rail, who, are useless at project management because they are a monopoly exactly like the old British Rail. What is needed is for the track and operation to be brought together just like the model created by the revised East coast arrangements the government have already put in hand. So we are already delivering the solution and giving it a name that even train buffs like. '

So that's all ok then, just in time for next election...

All week the trains have been sht. Currently the 21:32 is ‘Delayed’. Thank you for the insightful and informative status.

Bringing you more seats and faster trains.... any’ll do!

So, when the railways were privatised, we were told that private money would bring us far better management and so far better service. Now, some three decades on, after all that money had been invested, what's changed? We still have far too many strikes, far too many service delays, far too many breakdowns. The only 'improvement' seems to be that a few senior managers now get rewards that would 'bring a blush to the cheeks of a Barbary pirate'! What happens when the much heralded 'electrification project' is complete? I think we a ready know; delays, strikes, breakdowns but a nice big bonus for the boss.

Triples all round!

Well I just used the machine and it over charged me. Ripped off buy GWR.

No it didn't!
It sold you whatever you asked for at the correct price.

The machine charged me peak rate when I didn’t need one.

You pressed he button that said something like "Anytime Return To XXXX". I.E. Peak fare.
It sold you what you asked for.
If you need to buy off peak during the peak period you need to ask a person.

It therefore missold me: it is not necessary to have a peak rate ticket when there are no peak rate trains to catch.

A GWR Rip-off.

And why doesn’t the POS machine default to singles and returns on the home page! 😡

Actually, have to agree with you. I've been caught as have a couple of colleagues. On making a complaint, the explanation Biker has given is trotted out. I'm trying to decide if this indicates railway service managers are just thick or deliberatly deceitful.

It's this continued failure to deliver basic customer service standards, that are in no way dependent on investment or mode of traction, leading a lot of us to realise that nothing will improve with electrification and the project is just another monumental waste of money.

The auto ticket machines are supposed to enable unstaffed stations, clearly the same railway management attitude believing 'IT' will enable single operator trains. Littlecwonder the drivers keep striking!