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GMR
I keep forgetting to come on here sometimes because there is much better debates on Facebook pages. At one time I was an enthusiast of forums (even running one), but no more. Facebook has captured the market and you get a wider debate. On here you've got the same-old-same-old saying the same stuff. And when you do get newbies coming on here (like Petra) they are chased off and called the Trolls. No wonder this place is dying.

I noticed that NewburyToday has its own Facebook page and they use peoples comments for their letters' page. When this forum was created they used our comments for their paper, but no more. I also wonder if they know we exist on here or is this forum just kept in a dark corner for the Newbury nutters to voice their ramblings?

Another point; you can't really hide on Facebook as people usually write under their own name. That would bugger the Andy Capps' and others with stupid names up. Maybe they should rename this place the Twilight Zone.


On the edge
There may be something in that, but I'm far from convinced Facebook is the answer. Frankly, much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen here. It would also seem that the lack of anonymity actually encourages bad behaviour; but it is still easy enough to create a false identity. I still don't think social media is much more than an extended pub conversation; in very broad terms it might give a slight inducation of public opinion, but mainly it simply reinforces existing predudice. Again, it's also very easy to manipulate as it clearly had been in dime of the local instances. For those who would wish to input to or influence, it's not the answer; its simply entertainment, no more no less.
newres
Facebook discussions are generally foulmouthed and ill informed. Mind you, the latter is common on here too, but at least generally it's literate.,
Mr Brown
Look at the Facebook pages 'Parking like a **** in Newbury', Newbury Exposed' or 'Newbury Moaners and Debates'. You'll need to apply to join in some cases. I'm not sure they are what I'd call wider and deeper debates or even represent reason.
Andy Capp
While people post, there is a point. I see nothing great about the debates on facebook and as a debating medium I think it is hopeless; it's a glorified Twitter site.

GMR: Could you point me to some of these interesting debates on Facebook?
Biker1
QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 19 2016, 05:29 PM) *
There may be something in that, but I'm far from convinced Facebook is the answer. Frankly, much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen here. It would also seem that the lack of anonymity actually encourages bad behaviour; but it is still easy enough to create a false identity. I still don't think social media is much more than an extended pub conversation; in very broad terms it might give a slight inducation of public opinion, but mainly it simply reinforces existing predudice. Again, it's also very easy to manipulate as it clearly had been in dime of the local instances. For those who would wish to input to or influence, it's not the answer; its simply entertainment, no more no less.

I'll agree with that OTE.
QUOTE (newres @ Sep 19 2016, 05:46 PM) *
Facebook discussions are generally foulmouthed and ill informed. Mind you, the latter is common on here too, but at least generally it's literate.,

Ill informed in as much as they don't agree with you newres, and you yourself are not entirely innocent of dealing out the insults! wink.gif
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 19 2016, 08:28 PM) *
While people post, there is a point. I see nothing great about the debates on facebook and as a debating medium I think it is hopeless; it's a glorified Twitter site.

And with that AC!
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 19 2016, 05:29 PM) *
There may be something in that, but I'm far from convinced Facebook is the answer. Frankly, much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen here. It would also seem that the lack of anonymity actually encourages bad behaviour; but it is still easy enough to create a false identity. I still don't think social media is much more than an extended pub conversation; in very broad terms it might give a slight inducation of public opinion, but mainly it simply reinforces existing predudice. Again, it's also very easy to manipulate as it clearly had been in dime of the local instances. For those who would wish to input to or influence, it's not the answer; its simply entertainment, no more no less.





Facebook is a better answer than this forum or most forums. At least you get a wider debate with different people. But then again it depends on what Facebook pages you go on.

GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 19 2016, 08:28 PM) *
While people post, there is a point. I see nothing great about the debates on facebook and as a debating medium I think it is hopeless; it's a glorified Twitter site. GMR: Could you point me to some of these interesting debates on Facebook?





BBC, channel 4 Facebook pages and there are others. But then again I suppose it depends on what subject you engage with. I have had some good debates.

I don't like Twitter, but as I said, it depends on what you are debating and who with.

GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 19 2016, 05:29 PM) *
There may be something in that, but I'm far from convinced Facebook is the answer. Frankly, much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen here. It would also seem that the lack of anonymity actually encourages bad behaviour; but it is still easy enough to create a false identity. I still don't think social media is much more than an extended pub conversation; in very broad terms it might give a slight inducation of public opinion, but mainly it simply reinforces existing predudice. Again, it's also very easy to manipulate as it clearly had been in dime of the local instances. For those who would wish to input to or influence, it's not the answer; its simply entertainment, no more no less.





When you say "much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen"; I presume you are talking local politics here? I agree, but I prefer more serious - national/ world - politics and there is plenty of good debates out there. The problem with local debates is the Newbury people, they don't know how to debate and are more interested in showing their superiority, foolishness and game play. Of course I am not suggesting that you don't get that when debating national politics, but there are more serious debaters than Newbury has.

Andy Capp
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 25 2016, 05:09 PM) *
When you say "much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen"; I presume you are talking local politics here? I agree, but I prefer more serious - national/ world - politics and there is plenty of good debates out there. The problem with local debates is the Newbury people, they don't know how to debate and are more interested in showing their superiority, foolishness and game play. Of course I am not suggesting that you don't get that when debating national politics, but there are more serious debaters than Newbury has.

I have seen no evidence that any of that is true. You like the rest of us have a certain arrogance that surfaces when the quarrelling starts.
GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 26 2016, 09:58 AM) *
I have seen no evidence that any of that is true. You like the rest of us have a certain arrogance that surfaces when the quarrelling starts.





Maybe I go down to your/ their level just to fit in. We usually respond or act depending on who are opponents are. When you've got a more intellectual debater or group of debaters one usually raises their game. Raising ones games when you are against inferior opposition would only go over their heads.

As for "no evidence"; I wouldn't expect you to say any different.

Andy Capp
QED.

QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 26 2016, 03:58 PM) *
Maybe I go down to your/ their level just to fit in. We usually respond or act depending on who are opponents are. When you've got a more intellectual debater or group of debaters one usually raises their game. Raising ones games when you are against inferior opposition would only go over their heads.

As for "no evidence"; I wouldn't expect you to say any different.

It doesn't surprise me you haven't shown any examples of this superior debating experience, but I don't blame you as trying to pickup on an old thread is quite difficult in Facebook land.

You said:
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 25 2016, 05:09 PM) *
When you say "much of what happens in Facebook is far worse than anything I've ever seen"; I presume you are talking local politics here? I agree, but I prefer more serious - national/ world - politics and there is plenty of good debates out there. The problem with local debates is the Newbury people, they don't know how to debate and are more interested in showing their superiority, foolishness and game play. Of course I am not suggesting that you don't get that when debating national politics, but there are more serious debaters than Newbury has.


In the main, all you have done is insult members and make hitherto groundless assertions. On one hand you resent the adversarial nature of debates on this form, then very soon you are guilty of employing those exact methods.

I'd be surprised if members of the Newbury Today forum are any different to any other group of people that like to chew the fat for a while. I also don't understand why people feel the need to have to post their grievances about this form and question why it is still used; there's room for everyone. Facebook is a convenient but facile message board, and this forum is just a corner of a pub for some regulars to have a chinwag.
blackdog
In answer to the question in the title of this thread - was there ever much point in this or any other forum?
GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 26 2016, 06:18 PM) *
QED. It doesn't surprise me you haven't shown any examples of this superior debating experience, but I don't blame you as trying to pickup on an old thread is quite difficult in Facebook land. You said: In the main, all you have done is insult members and make hitherto groundless assertions. On one hand you resent the adversarial nature of debates on this form, then very soon you are guilty of employing those exact methods. I'd be surprised if members of the Newbury Today forum are any different to any other group of people that like to chew the fat for a while. I also don't understand why people feel the need to have to post their grievances about this form and question why it is still used; there's room for everyone. Facebook is a convenient but facile message board, and this forum is just a corner of a pub for some regulars to have a chinwag.


To show "superior debating skills" one needs an opponent to appreciate those skills, not somebody who is hostile and can't see no further than their nose.

GMR
QUOTE (blackdog @ Sep 26 2016, 06:33 PM) *
In answer to the question in the title of this thread - was there ever much point in this or any other forum?





It keeps people like Andy Capp happy. wink.gif laugh.gif

Andy Capp
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 26 2016, 07:28 PM) *
To show "superior debating skills" one needs an opponent to appreciate those skills, not somebody who is hostile and can't see no further than their nose.

You objected to or criticised a number of things which you are guilty of yourself.

I have asked you to support you arguments yet rather than do so, you have quickly resorted to ridicule.
Biker1
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 26 2016, 07:28 PM) *
To show "superior debating skills" one needs an opponent to appreciate those skills, not somebody who is hostile and can't see no further than their nose.

If there is no-one on here with "superior debating skills" to match your own then why patronise?
GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 26 2016, 07:50 PM) *
You objected to or criticised a number of things which you are guilty of yourself. I have asked you to support you arguments yet rather than do so, you have quickly resorted to ridicule.





I stated a fact.

GMR
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 26 2016, 07:55 PM) *
If there is no-one on here with "superior debating skills" to match your own then why patronise?





I wouldn't say I was "patronise". However, there has been some good debates on here when people can bother.

Biker1
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 27 2016, 04:21 PM) *
I wouldn't say I was "patronise". However, there has been some good debates on here when people can bother.

I use the word in this sense.........

patronise - be a regular customer or client of; "We patronise this store"
patronage, keep going, patronise, support.

Oh one of superior skills. tongue.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 27 2016, 05:01 PM) *
I use the word in this sense......... patronise - be a regular customer or client of; "We patronise this store" patronage, keep going, patronise, support. Oh one of superior skills. tongue.gif





Very good.

Andy Capp
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 27 2016, 04:19 PM) *
I stated a fact.

You were/are ridiculing; something you appeared to object to.
user23
Just like Facebook, conversations here tend to end up with bickering, the only difference is it take days rather than seconds.
newres
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 27 2016, 07:34 PM) *
Just like Facebook, conversations here tend to end up with bickering, the only difference is it take days rather than seconds.

No bad language here though.
GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 27 2016, 06:09 PM) *
You were/are ridiculing; something you appeared to object to.





Why would I object if it was true?

GMR
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 27 2016, 07:34 PM) *
Just like Facebook, conversations here tend to end up with bickering, the only difference is it take days rather than seconds.





That is true, but then this is what this forum is about.

GMR
QUOTE (newres @ Sep 27 2016, 07:35 PM) *
No bad language here though.





Because we are gentleman.

Andy Capp
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 27 2016, 07:44 PM) *
Why would I object if it was true?

You objected to the rudeness, yet are one of the first to indulge in it.

Anyway, do you want to debate the OP or are you simply wishing to squabble?
Simon Kirby
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 27 2016, 07:44 PM) *
Why would I object if it was true?

That's not an argument, it's just contradiction.
GMR
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 27 2016, 08:21 PM) *
You objected to the rudeness, yet are one of the first to indulge in it. Anyway, do you want to debate the OP or are you simply wishing to squabble?





I only indulge in what people throw at me.

GMR
QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Sep 27 2016, 08:58 PM) *





But the contradiction can be the argument.

dannyboy
This 'debate' is a prime example of why I don't bother with this forum any more.


Biker1
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Sep 29 2016, 10:01 AM) *
This 'debate' is a prime example of why I don't bother with this forum any more.

I just ignore it and let them get on with it! wink.gif
Andy Capp
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Sep 29 2016, 10:01 AM) *
This 'debate' is a prime example of why I don't bother with this forum any more.

Like GMR, I presume you find Newbury forum members a bit below you! tongue.gif

I simply come on here because it is a distraction from other things I routinely do. It's just an innocent past time; to watch berks squabble ignorantly about unimportant things. tongue.gif I can't speak for others, but people's views on here do occasionally affect me and change the way I appreciate things.

What I find frequently the case is people who complain about attitudes, but do so in a manner that contradicts their position. Why do people feel the need to come here and slag it off! I have forums I don't bother with and deal with it by simply not bothering.



"The bigger the front, the bigger the rear" - Stephen Grosz
dannyboy
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 29 2016, 04:04 PM) *
Like GMR, I presume you find Newbury forum members a bit below you I presume! tongue.gif



No - he moans about not being able to have a 'good debate' & then pointlessly engages in gainsaying.....
Berkshirelad
"It's not an argument; I am merely pointing out why you are wrong"

biggrin.gif
Biker1
Thought I'd bump this one as the question perhaps needs answering again!
With it now reduced to bickering over mainly one subject by the few that remain and the resident wind up merchant Is there much point of this or other forums anymore?
Many of the past regulars have disappeared (even AC is rare now!) maybe because of this or maybe for other reasons but it seems that varied, lively, constructive debate is rare on here now.
Anyone else?
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 31 2018, 05:01 PM) *
Thought I'd bump this one as the question perhaps needs answering again!
With it now reduced to bickering over mainly one subject by the few that remain and the resident wind up merchant Is there much point of this or other forums anymore?
Many of the past regulars have disappeared (even AC is rare now!) maybe because of this or maybe for other reasons but it seems that varied, lively, constructive debate is rare on here now.
Anyone else?

The resident troll has destroyed any constructive debate. EVERY one of us is racist in that one's tiny mind and any conversation inevitably leads to him / her / it accusing all and and sundry of being a white imperialist.
Biker1
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Oct 31 2018, 06:08 PM) *
The resident troll has destroyed any constructive debate. EVERY one of us is racist in that one's tiny mind and any conversation inevitably leads to him / her / it accusing all and and sundry of being a white imperialist.

Perhaps best to leave him / her to it then and move on to pastures new?
newres
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 31 2018, 06:07 PM) *
Perhaps best to leave him / her to it then and move on to pastures new?

Donít let the door slam into your **** on the way out.
TallDarkAndHandsome
QUOTE (newres @ Oct 31 2018, 06:13 PM) *
Donít let the door slam into your **** on the way out.

And now insults. Sad troll.
je suis Charlie
QUOTE (newres @ Oct 31 2018, 06:13 PM) *
Donít let the door slam into your **** on the way out.

Still getting most use out of your 'Literature Degree' I see, tell me was that Tolstoy? or maybe Chekhov perhaps? No wait, wasn't it Eugene O'Neill in his acclaimed work ' Snot nosed liberal gimp throws a hissy fit?' that you've just quoted? Money well spent on that degree course methinks. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
SirWilliam
Me thinks everyone doth protest to much. I may disagree in principle with most of newres views but I will defend his right to express them. Back in the day as the youngsters say we would write a letter to the Manchester Guardian's editor and await it's publication a week later, by which time the subject was out of date so very few saw fit to respond. Now mud can be flung as fast as it takes to type without actually digesting the content. EVERYONE on here has a common agenda, just the manner of achieving it is different. Be a shame if it did close but like a Morris Minor it may well corrode away no matter how we treat it.
x2lls
QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Sep 26 2016, 06:18 PM) *
QED.


It doesn't surprise me you haven't shown any examples of this superior debating experience, but I don't blame you as trying to pickup on an old thread is quite difficult in Facebook land.

You said:

In the main, all you have done is insult members and make hitherto groundless assertions. On one hand you resent the adversarial nature of debates on this form, then very soon you are guilty of employing those exact methods.

I'd be surprised if members of the Newbury Today forum are any different to any other group of people that like to chew the fat for a while. I also don't understand why people feel the need to have to post their grievances about this form and question why it is still used; there's room for everyone. Facebook is a convenient but facile message board, and this forum is just a corner of a pub for some regulars to have a chinwag.



AC, like it!

x2lls
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Oct 31 2018, 07:07 PM) *
Perhaps best to leave him / her to it then and move on to pastures new?



And then we would have no dialogue. Another example of de platforming (that is a **** disgrace!)

I, and others have declared our allegiances and have been challenged, dare I say politely, compared to saying the same stuff on the local pages of Facebook.


x2lls
QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Oct 31 2018, 10:57 PM) *
Me thinks everyone doth protest too much. I may disagree in principle with most of newres views but I will defend his right to express them. Back in the day as the youngsters say we would write a letter to the Manchester Guardian's editor and await it's publication a week later, by which time the subject was out of date so very few saw fit to respond. Now mud can be flung as fast as it takes to type without actually digesting the content. EVERYONE on here has a common agenda, just the manner of achieving it is different. Be a shame if it did close but like a Morris Minor it may well corrode away no matter how we treat it.


Bold my finicky element!!

I like your points. I certainly don't want this forum to be pulled or die either. I do wonder why so many no longer contribute, as the subject matter is very sensitive to many of us. You see the same subjects on facebook, but as soon as you declare publicly your affiliation, the chance of a torrent of (Haha), leftard abuse is just staggering. I had one, not sure of gender, who said "Oh, TR supporter, I'll say no more", it went on to say more.

PS:- My first experience of a Morris Minor was the van version used by the post office. My second experience was when a mate bought one for £10 and nearly killed me and a few friends going numpty MPH around a car park and testing the brakes! Passenger seat was not fixed down!
SirWilliam
QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 31 2018, 10:32 PM) *
Bold my finicky element!!

I like your points. I certainly don't want this forum to be pulled or die either. I do wonder why so many no longer contribute, as the subject matter is very sensitive to many of us. You see the same subjects on facebook, but as soon as you declare publicly your affiliation, the chance of a torrent of (Haha), leftard abuse is just staggering. I had one, not sure of gender, who said "Oh, TR supporter, I'll say no more", it went on to say more.

PS:- My first experience of a Morris Minor was the van version used by the post office. My second experience was when a mate bought one for £10 and nearly killed me and a few friends going numpty MPH around a car park and testing the brakes! Passenger seat was not fixed down!


When one sits down in an objective frame of mind and weighs up the left and right of the political spectrum it is difficult to separate. The left consider anything other than their take on the world as akin to sleeping with the antichrist whereas the right will take issue with anything that contravenes their supposed idealistic time in history, which is somewhere between 1850 and 1940. Both are deluded and both very dangerous in that they attract the balmpot element who lack the necessary intellect to equate the pros and cons. The whole point of any debate is to air opinions, not convert, and to that end this, and other , forums are invaluable in it allows that interaction without venturing down the pub.

Remember well when the PO used to flog their vans, (and cars), to anyone who was foolish enough to buy one as they where complete wrecks. My understanding is that they are now disposed off through a third party, but they are still wrecks. rolleyes.gif
newres
QUOTE (x2lls @ Oct 31 2018, 10:14 PM) *
And then we would have no dialogue. Another example of de platforming (that is a **** disgrace!)

I, and others have declared our allegiances

Sieg Heil!

Jesus, youíre a nut job. Sent any parcel bombs lately?

x2lls
QUOTE (newres @ Nov 1 2018, 09:04 PM) *
Sieg Heil!

Jesus, youíre a nut job. Sent any parcel bombs lately?


laugh.gif laugh.gif

Well it is that time of year, what with Guy Fawkes and all that.

What was your postcode again?


je suis Charlie
If everyone was to simply block Newres and deny the troll the attention he craves he'll eventually wither and die. Simple. I suspect he's just some boy with his dads computer and a fevered imagination. laugh.gif laugh.gif tongue.gif
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