I think Governments eventually lose elections, rather than win them. I remember the tories were written off in the same way when Bliar got in.

Really?



I am glad you agree it was a "stunt", but a stunt can be seen as a lie, seeing as he said it wasn't a stunt.






"They would divert...."? Really? The only person who can divert anything is the PM of this country. Anybody who knows anything about politics should now that, whether it be, Johnson, Gove or UKIP, they can't make any promises because they weren't in a position to do so.

Good point.

I doubt if that will worry them, after all Tony Blair had no real opposition.

He could have said it was a gorilla riding a bicycle and you'd argue that it would depend what he meant by "bicycle". It was a legitimate protest at train overcrowding with no misrepresentation involved?

Do you want to have another go at justifying the smear that Corbyn is dishonest?

Tony Blair had more opposition than May will get from Corbyn.

I argued it the way it was.

But that isn't what he said; that it was a "legitimate protest". You are playing semantics.

It's not a matter of semantics, it's rhetoric, and you haven't made you point.

I haven't made my point to you because that would put you in an awkward position if I had.

If you make your point, we won't tell; promise.

Its all irrelevant anyway. Corbyn wants to spend £500 billion. No one in the EU and blighty will have a pot to piss in soon...

Get stocked up.

Current government spending is in the region of £800billion. See here. Can you explain your complaint?

Is it not ANOTHER £500 billion?

I did love the fact that although the labour heartland (oop north like) led the charge to brexit according to Jeremy's pit bull everyone who voted out is a racist. Labour voters will really appreciate that I'm sure.

How to self destruct 101!

Is it, I don't know - I'm happy to hold up one end of this argument but I really don't think it's asking too much for someone to put bit of effort in on the other end.

I suspect the resolution to your apparent paradox is that not everyone who voted brexit is a racist - nice passive aggression btw.

Judging by the number of government U-turns in the last year there is a pretty effective opposition somewhere.

Not even relevant. Sorry Simon. Corbyn wants to spend another 500 billion. If I promised to spend 200 trillion extra would you vote for me? Time to take the pill that tells the truth. Ignore it if makes u feel better. March 2018. My guess. If not before. Depends on how the run on DB gos.

Why, thank you. I try, I try.

That's just an expression of contempt for the idea, it's not a reasoned argument - can you say more specifically what the proposal is and why it's a bad thing?

It seems Mr Corbyn is not acknowledging one of the core reasons many of his core voters voted Brexit: immigration. He is not acknowledging a need to mange immigration.

I suppose this has two sides to it: an acknowledgment of the need for immigration whether on economic grounds or humanitarian, but may also come at a cost to his party of which he is of course the leader.

The problem isn't immigration, the problem is that areas of the UK have been underinvested for the last 40 years and people are just fed up with their miserable lot, so it's understandable when people blame foreigners.

It is our secret

So the problem is not massive population growth?
I strongly disagree. Its not foreigners as you say but it is numbers.
We simply cannot cope with the massive numbers of people coming into the country in a few short years. You cant build infrastructure quick enough to cope. I feel this is where brexiteers are wrongly labelled racist. Its such a shame that rational discussion is always hijacked by some. Not you Simon. Id have a pint with you and chew the fat. Others who always see things that sometimes are just not there.

I don't think Labours policy is much different; simply they won't be drawn on pin point numbers. You are right, the infrastructure in the fullest meaning of the word is indeed collapsing in a fair few areas. Get that put put right, properly right, and most won't give a tinkers cuss about where their neighbour might have come from. That's just what Jeremy Corbyn has said at their conference. Of course, the fastest way to create the infrastructure is to increase the size of the workforce, that necessarily means immigrants, just as it did in 1950s, when from the NHS, London Transport, Imperial Tyoewriters etc.etc.etc. immigrant labour was demanded.

You have a point. How will we go about making sure that the people who are coming in will contribute to the infrastructure build? Id like to see it and pay them well. Does this mean you would only accept a percentage who would not? Or take everyone whether they do or not and just hope for the best?

Meanwhile, all the immigrant influx are guaranteed a job, at at least £10ph as well as everyone already here. Err, I think I can see a flaw in the argument.

[quote name='Simon Kirby' date='Sep 27 2016, 10:48 PM' post='111984']
I suspect the resolution to your apparent paradox is that not everyone who voted brexit is a racist - nice passive aggression btw.
[T?/quote]
Then of course theres the ever popular Jackie walkers delightful stance on the holocaust. Anti Semitism in the Labour party? Why would we think that?

No matter what, as you say, there will be a gap before we have a decent infrastructure. That does mean that there is an immediate issue; that of reassuring the population that matters are in control. In my view, this means controls who comes to the Country with the intention of staying. We therefore need to determine the rules and means of enforcement, which must have public confidence. Its this that ought to inform the debate and the test should be public acceptance and there are ways to determine that, other than the easily manipulated concentration on raw numbers.

Phew, your mate Phil Green unloaded his shop just in time didn't he?

Good bloke is Phil, Christmas card every year.

"Jeremy Corbyn has made his first major changes since being re-elected as Labour’s leader, appointing his allies Diane Abbott and Shami Chakrabarti to top jobs within the shadow cabinet."

Wow! So Shami gets a peerage and a front bench job for clearing her buddy of anti Semitism. Nice work if you can get it! But nothing suspicious there. Just labour doing its thing.

A racist as Shadow Home Sec!

I thought it was OK to be racist if you were not white?😄

I hear what you are saying and it would seem it is 'alright', but a racist will always be a racist, regardless of reason!

So, A racist, an anti Semite and a baroness walk into a bar, and the bartender says ? Feel free to add your own ending!

"Looks like you're heading for a party later?"
"No, we're just good friends."

"So Jeremy, what'll it be?"

"Ooh, I think we will have a bucket of whitewash thanks, with a side order of hypocrisy"

Just here for the racing or do you live here?

If anyone needs any evidence of the political indoctrination of the BBC, just watch Friday's hignfy Solid, turgid right bashing. So boring and all at our expense.

In addition, the *** BBC will not allow HYS on real issues. Those fools still have an anti brexit agenda.

And it turns out 100s of BBC employees allegedly have not been paying the correct tax!! Hopefully HMRC will prosecute.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/...=ms-android-lge

Do as we say. Not as we do.....

Ah the evil IR35! The bane of contractors everywhere, making it virtually impossible to work as a self-employed person. Fortunately, its introduction roughly coincided with my retirement.

I understand you can but you pay more tax than before.

I understand you can but you pay more tax than before.

"Russia has deployed nuclear-capable Iskander missiles in its Kaliningrad region, bordering Poland and Lithuania. Linas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Nato-member Lithuania, said that the aim of the move was to "seek concessions from the West".

So, still nothing to worry about is it Jeremy, only Russia using the threat of nuclear exchange, move along now, nothing to see here!

Muddled argument there. So why isn't the vast nuclear arsenal deterring them?

Cos theirs is Bigger and they are aware of the rise of soft leftists in Europe. Ooh, nuclear weaponry is nasty! We don't want that!

Really? Donald Trump, May, Farage and Johnson? You're 'avin' a larff!

Clinton, Corbyn. And that's not funny.