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GMR
Everyday you see cars - loads of cars - drive down Northbrook street unchallenged. Even members of the public go up to the driver remonstrate with them. Finally I've seen a cop (well PCSO) book an errant driver. But will this preven other drivers from driving down Northbook Street outside certain times?




On the edge
Presumably an example of where bollards aren't effective laugh.gif
GMR
QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 13 2009, 03:39 PM) *
Presumably an example of where bollards aren't effective laugh.gif



Yes, one of many laugh.gif
Biker1
QUOTE (On the edge @ Sep 13 2009, 03:39 PM) *
Presumably an example of where bollards aren't effective laugh.gif



The bollards at the Northern entrance to Northbrook Street aren't operational at present due to road works.

However the rules regarding semi-pedestrianisation still apply.

Can PCSO's issue a fine or just a warning?
GMR
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 13 2009, 09:10 PM) *
The bollards at the Northern entrance to Northbrook Street aren't operational at present due to road works.

However the rules regarding semi-pedestrianisation still apply.

Can PCSO's issue a fine or just a warning?



As far as I am aware they can issue warnings; I was close enough to hear him say about the fine he is getting.
Berkshirelad
I wasn't aware that PCSOs had the authority to stop a vehicle...
GMR
QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 13 2009, 09:25 PM) *
I wasn't aware that PCSOs had the authority to stop a vehicle...



Yes... I've also seen one detain a suspect.
Strafin
QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 13 2009, 09:25 PM) *
I wasn't aware that PCSOs had the authority to stop a vehicle...

They don't but if you're daft enough to stop for one, they can call for their mates to come and do the "nicking/fining". I guess anyone can do a citizens arrest, again though, you'd have to let them.
GMR
QUOTE (Strafin @ Sep 13 2009, 09:33 PM) *
They don't but if you're daft enough to stop for one, they can call for their mates to come and do the "nicking/fining". I guess anyone can do a citizens arrest, again though, you'd have to let them.



The trouble with that theory Strafin was that this PCSO was on his own when he issued a ticket to this motorist.
Strafin
They can give out penalty notices I believe; but my point was that they don't have the authority to stop you per se. So if you stop they can give you a ticket, if you don't they can't. I'm sure they would probably report you though.
GMR
QUOTE (Strafin @ Sep 13 2009, 09:39 PM) *
They can give out penalty notices I believe; but my point was that they don't have the authority to stop you per se. So if you stop they can give you a ticket, if you don't they can't. I'm sure they would probably report you though.



OK, fair point. He probably was issuing you 'penalty notice.'
user23
QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Sep 13 2009, 09:25 PM) *
I wasn't aware that PCSOs had the authority to stop a vehicle...
They don't. It would be interesting to know if they stood in front of your car to stop to moving (whilst waiting for the proper Police to turn up) whether they could be prosecuted themselves for obstruction.
GMR
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 09:58 AM) *
They don't. It would be interesting to know if they stood in front of your car to stop to moving (whilst waiting for the proper Police to turn up) whether they could be prosecuted themselves for obstruction.



No proper police turned up. He issued the fine by himself.
ossy1
They have a power to direct traffic...... so if at a road closure they instruct you to stop and turn around you must do so. So you could argue that they have a power to stop a vehicle driving in a pedestrian area. They do not have a power under section 163 Road traffic Act. They could not stop you in a police vehicle whilst your vehicle is moving along.



http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/join-pcso-about


see here.

You will see that most have a traffic label somewhere on there uniform which means they can issue certain non endorsable tickets.
Chesapeake
QUOTE (ossy1 @ Sep 14 2009, 11:04 AM) *
They have a power to direct traffic...... so if at a road closure they instruct you to stop and turn around you must do so. So you could argue that they have a power to stop a vehicle driving in a pedestrian area. They do not have a power under section 163 Road traffic Act. They could not stop you in a police vehicle whilst your vehicle is moving along.



http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/join-pcso-about


see here.

You will see that most have a traffic label somewhere on there uniform which means they can issue certain non endorsable tickets.


Oh no GMR. You must read this post and it's link. Read the 4th bullet point down on "PCSO" uniform. It seems to quite clearly say "shoulder number"! Ohhhhh noooooo! ohmy.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 11:08 AM) *
Oh no GMR. You must read this post and it's link. Read the 4th bullet point down on "PCSO" uniform. It seems to quite clearly say "shoulder number"! Ohhhhh noooooo! ohmy.gif



Of course it is called a shoulder number... I never said it wasn't called that. But it is also called the other as well.
Chesapeake
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 11:13 AM) *
Of course it is called a shoulder number... I never said it wasn't called that. But it is also called the other as well.


Ummm GMR please see the quote below that I have just taken from one of your many heated debates Stroud Green Trees post #75


"Sorry... I should have said epaulette number ... not shoulder number actually... the only thing is police officers don’t call them shoulder number but epaulette numbers; curious you should say ‘shoulder number.’"

This seems to imply that you did say that it wasn't called a 'shoulder number'. Am I being a little pedantic maybe? But I do love to catch people out. wink.gif
Rose8
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 11:47 AM) *
Ummm GMR please see the quote below that I have just taken from one of your many heated debates Stroud Green Trees post #75


"Sorry... I should have said epaulette number ... not shoulder number actually... the only thing is police officers don’t call them shoulder number but epaulette numbers; curious you should say ‘shoulder number.’"

This seems to imply that you did say that it wasn't called a 'shoulder number'. Am I being a little pedantic maybe? But I do love to catch people out. wink.gif



oops laugh.gif laugh.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 11:47 AM) *
Ummm GMR please see the quote below that I have just taken from one of your many heated debates Stroud Green Trees post #75


"Sorry... I should have said epaulette number ... not shoulder number actually... the only thing is police officers don't call them shoulder number but epaulette numbers; curious you should say 'shoulder number.'"

This seems to imply that you did say that it wasn't called a 'shoulder number'. Am I being a little pedantic maybe? But I do love to catch people out. wink.gif



There is nothing wrong with being a little pedantic or even largely pedantic my friend.... it is all part of the chase. And if you feel you've caught me out then my hat goes off to you my dear wink.gif

As for 'epaulette numbers' or 'shoulder numbers' I can only speak as I find or what I am told. Even my daughters boyfriend refers to them as epaulette should numbers. Granted he has only started out and is going through his training. That is why I took my enquiry further afield and higher up the food chain. Beyond that I can say no more. cool.gif
user23
QUOTE (ossy1 @ Sep 14 2009, 11:04 AM) *
They have a power to direct traffic...... so if at a road closure they instruct you to stop and turn around you must do so. So you could argue that they have a power to stop a vehicle driving in a pedestrian area. They do not have a power under section 163 Road traffic Act. They could not stop you in a police vehicle whilst your vehicle is moving along
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?
GMR
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?



If I am right 'specials' are voluntary and don't get paid, while PCSO's do get paid. If I am wrong then I am sure somebody can put be right.
ossy1
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?



No idea i've done neither, maybe because specials don't get paid!!
user23
QUOTE (ossy1 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:34 PM) *
No idea i've done neither, maybe because specials don't get paid!!
Really? I didn't know that, perhaps that's the main reason.
Chesapeake
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?



QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 12:18 PM) *
If I am right 'specials' are voluntary and don't get paid, while PCSO's do get paid. If I am wrong then I am sure somebody can put be right.



QUOTE (ossy1 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:34 PM) *
No idea i've done neither, maybe because specials don't get paid!!


A PCSO's role and a Specials role are quite different. I am not an expert on this subject and I hope that I am giving you the right information as I see it.

The role of the Special is almost exactly that of a Regular, they have the same powers as a Regular but, a Special is a volunteer Police Officer and therefore does not get paid. As Regulars are usually full-time they have to do more of the paperwork and "nitty gritty" stuff than a Special. Regulars can also 'specialise' as in Armed Response, Traffic, Dog Handlers, CID etc whereas at the moment Specials cannot. Specials usually have a full-time paid civillian job as well and give as much time to the Specials role as they are willing to but there are minmum hours that they are expected to do. Most do in excess of those minimum hours. They are basically almost FREE Policemen for the tax payer.

A Special can have many different reasons as to why they volunteer rather than join the Regulars. It may be that the paid job that they do pays at a greater rate than that of a Regular Police Officer and therefore they cannot afford (due to their financial commitments) to change jobs. Contrary to popular belief Police Officers do not get paid a fortune. They might also want to have a SERIOUS dabble in Policing.

A PCSO's role as you can see above from Ossy1's link is quite different to a Regular Police Officer or a Special Police Officer. It is a full time paid job and they carry out a very important link between the public and the Police. You will probably see them walking the 'beat' more often than you will see a Regular or a Special.

A PCSO might want to do a role similar to a Police officer without having to get in at the 'deep end'. As you know GMR they sometimes decide that they like the look of Regular policing and apply to the regulars.

Hope this answers your questions? smile.gif
ossy1
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 01:03 PM) *
A PCSO's role and a Specials role are quite different. I am not an expert on this subject and I hope that I am giving you the right information as I see it.

The role of the Special is almost exactly that of a Regular, they have the same powers as a Regular but, a Special is a volunteer Police Officer and therefore does not get paid. As Regulars are usually full-time they have to do more of the paperwork and "nitty gritty" stuff than a Special. Regulars can also 'specialise' as in Armed Response, Traffic, Dog Handlers, CID etc whereas at the moment Specials cannot. Specials usually have a full-time paid civillian job as well and give as much time to the Specials role as they are willing to but there are minmum hours that they are expected to do. Most do in excess of those minimum hours. They are basically almost FREE Policemen for the tax payer.

A Special can have many different reasons as to why they volunteer rather than join the Regulars. It may be that the paid job that they do pays at a greater rate than that of a Regular Police Officer and therefore they cannot afford (due to their financial commitments) to change jobs. Contrary to popular belief Police Officers do not get paid a fortune. They might also want to have a SERIOUS dabble in Policing.

A PCSO's role as you can see above from Ossy1's link is quite different to a Regular Police Officer or a Special Police Officer. It is a full time paid job and they carry out a very important link between the public and the Police. You will probably see them walking the 'beat' more often than you will see a Regular or a Special.

A PCSO might want to do a role similar to a Police officer without having to get in at the 'deep end'. As you know GMR they sometimes decide that they like the look of Regular policing and apply to the regulars.

Hope this answers your questions? smile.gif



Spot on.
JeffG
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?

Aren't PCSO's paid?
Chesapeake
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 01:03 PM) *
A PCSO's role as you can see above from Ossy1's link is quite different to a Regular Police Officer or a Special Police Officer. It is a full time paid job and they carry out a very important link between the public and the Police. You will probably see them walking the 'beat' more often than you will see a Regular or a Special.



QUOTE (JeffG @ Sep 14 2009, 02:55 PM) *
Aren't PCSO's paid?


You must have missed what I wrote. I have to admit that it was a rather long, rambling, boring looking post. sad.gif
user23
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 01:03 PM) *
Hope this answers your questions? smile.gif
It certianly does. thanks.
Bill1
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 12:13 PM) *
There is nothing wrong with being a little pedantic or even largely pedantic my friend.... it is all part of the chase. And if you feel you've caught me out then my hat goes off to you my dear wink.gif

As for 'epaulette numbers' or 'shoulder numbers' I can only speak as I find or what I am told. Even my daughters boyfriend refers to them as epaulette should numbers. Granted he has only started out and is going through his training. That is why I took my enquiry further afield and higher up the food chain. Beyond that I can say no more. cool.gif


Your daughters boyfriend refers to them as "epualette should numbers"????????? laugh.gif
Anon2
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 11:13 AM) *
Of course it is called a shoulder number... I never said it wasn't called that. But it is also called the other as well.


And just in case that wasn't enough evidence for you....here's some more!!! http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/joinus/a...signia-officers

I know GMR will come back and say that they are called both 'shoulder' and 'epaulette' numbers and that he got this info from 'higher up the food chain' but PLEASE can he show any official referral to the second term? I think not. tongue.gif
Iommi
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:17 PM) *
And just in case that wasn't enough evidence for you....here's some more!!! http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/joinus/a...signia-officers

I know GMR will come back and say that they are called both 'shoulder' and 'epaulette' numbers and that he got this info from 'higher up the food chain' but PLEASE can he show any official referral to the second term? I think not. tongue.gif

Talk about w*nking something dry. rolleyes.gif
Anon2
QUOTE (Iommi @ Sep 14 2009, 06:24 PM) *
Talk about w*nking something dry. rolleyes.gif


I know, but good fun all the same!!! laugh.gif Would he let anyone else off the hook I ask? wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Bill1 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:05 PM) *
Your daughters boyfriend refers to them as "epualette should numbers"????????? laugh.gif



He just called them 'epaulettes'.
GMR
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:17 PM) *
And just in case that wasn't enough evidence for you....here's some more!!! http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/joinus/a...signia-officers

I know GMR will come back and say that they are called both 'shoulder' and 'epaulette' numbers and that he got this info from 'higher up the food chain' but PLEASE can he show any official referral to the second term? I think not. tongue.gif


All I can say is what I was told they were called by real police officers. You only say you are police officers. Taking the pee won't change that. wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:41 PM) *
I know, but good fun all the same!!! laugh.gif Would he let anyone else off the hook I ask? wink.gif



But isn't that what forums are for? I have a saying; if they didn't exist we'd have to invent them. And yes, all good fun. laugh.gif wink.gif
Anon2
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 06:46 PM) *
All I can say is what I was told they were called by real police officers. You only say you are police officers. Taking the pee won't change that. wink.gif



Well I suppose you do pay your taxes for us, don't you? laugh.gif
Anon2
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 06:44 PM) *
He just called them 'epaulettes'.



If he said that, are you sure he wasn't referring to the piece of material on which the shoulder number is stitched????? wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:50 PM) *
Well I suppose you do pay your taxes for us, don't you? laugh.gif



What do you do for a living? tongue.gif
Anon2
QUOTE (GMR @ Sep 14 2009, 06:53 PM) *
What do you do for a living? tongue.gif



We've had that conversation to death, haven't we? sad.gif Yes I know we've had other ones to death too......)
GMR
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:53 PM) *
If he said that, are you sure he wasn't referring to the piece of material on which the shoulder number is stitched????? wink.gif



Does it make any difference? We've got miles of fun out of it so what I reported was obviously worth it. wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Anon2 @ Sep 14 2009, 06:54 PM) *
We've had that conversation to death, haven't we? sad.gif



I don't know.... the same could be said about a lot of things... but we'll see where the mileage takes us. wink.gif
ossy1
another thread ruined.
GMR
QUOTE (ossy1 @ Sep 14 2009, 07:02 PM) *
another thread ruined.



Well.... I was prepared to leave it but your co-police officer wanted it continued... I am just the messenger wink.gif
JeffG
QUOTE (JeffG @ Sep 14 2009, 02:55 PM) *
Aren't PCSO's paid?


QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Sep 14 2009, 02:59 PM) *
You must have missed what I wrote. I have to admit that it was a rather long, rambling, boring looking post. sad.gif


Guilty as charged, m'lady. I was proceeding in an orderly manner down the page, and failed to notice that there was a further page to be read, when I hastily replied to what I thought was the last post.

I fully expect a lengthy prison sentence, since it wasn't such a trivial offence as beating up a police officer...

I shall now go back and read the posts I missed. wink.gif
Chesapeake
QUOTE (JeffG @ Sep 14 2009, 07:54 PM) *
Guilty as charged, m'lady. I was proceeding in an orderly manner down the page, and failed to notice that there was a further page to be read, when I hastily replied to what I thought was the last post.

I fully expect a lengthy prison sentence, since it wasn't such a trivial offence as beating up a police officer...

I shall now go back and read the posts I missed. wink.gif


The Devil's in the detail my dear boy wink.gif
Berkshirelad
QUOTE (user23 @ Sep 14 2009, 12:15 PM) *
Out of interest, why would someone become a PCSO and not a Special?



Because it pays, specials are volunteers and unpaid.

Also the power to direct traffic is not a standard PCSO power, it has to be specifically granted by the Chief Constable. Some forces tend to grant their PCSOs the additional authority of a traffic warden (which includes the power to direct traffic).
Biker1
Just out of interest does anyone know what those numbers that police officers wear on their shoulders are called?

Just out of interest - don't want to start an argument! biggrin.gif
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 15 2009, 05:34 AM) *
Just out of interest does anyone know what those numbers that police officers wear on their shoulders are called? Just out of interest - don't want to start an argument! biggrin.gif

I think it is a positional decimal numbering system. Each one is unique to a corresponding officer in the police...I think.
Sarah
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Sep 15 2009, 05:34 AM) *
Just out of interest does anyone know what those numbers that police officers wear on their shoulders are called?

Just out of interest - don't want to start an argument! biggrin.gif



Achilles' heel
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