Does anyone know if this means that theoretically there is now ~40 minutes free parking?

I don't doubt it, the 'give them an inch' rule takes effect again. Let's face it, even if we had free parking round here, there would still be howls of protest because 'I was only parked on those double lines for a couple of minutes'.

I would say it does apply to Pay & Display bays. I can't do the link from this tablet but the website says "The 10 minute grace rules do not extend to vehicles parked in parking bays if a ticket hasn't been fixed on it first."

So, if you HAVE put your 30 minute 'free' ticket on your car (as you are meant to) they still have to give the 10 minute grace period in addition.


EDIT:
Linky thing
(Second paragraph after the photo on the link:)
"The ten minute grace period kicks in only at the point when the time printed on the ticket expires."

New parking is just driving people to other towns or the out limits of town.

Agreed.

Even those of us who really don't mind paying to park are getting somewhat discontent at not seeing any sensible measures being taken to justify the monies taken. The Wharf area is a classic example. The whole area has the ambience of a derelict prison exercise yard. What an advert for the town this gateway had become; ugh!

As a lorry driver it is becoming a lot harder for us drivers to find a parking space so we can deliver our goods. That is another reason why town centres will die.

Terrific! Now you have given them another excuse to Give away yet some more land to a Developer!

Aargh! Me and my big gob......no wonder Newbury people keep silent!

I thought the buses were going there?

Deja Vu.

As a lorry driver you should know that you can 'deliver' on yellow lines, including double yellows. Opportunities exist for lorry drivers.

Of course lorry drivers can also be the scourge of town business parks with the swarms that invade for overnight parking. Instead of using the facilities that exist in the motorways, with toilets and even showers at some, lorry drivers prefer to avoid the parking fees and find a spot in the hidden away areas like Faraday Road and it's side roads. One reason why some businesses don't want to move into units in these areas when they become available is because they don't like having to deal with the turds on the doorstep or entrance areas smelling of pee. It's not a reason for them dying but it doesn't help regenerate an area when it's been used as a driver's toilet....

Who's he then?

Umm, this then says rather more about the quality of the business managers in the area than anything else. If the problem is as vile and endemic as suggested one might reasonably expected to have heard very loud noises about this beforehand - particularly in the mewling about the proposed development round there! Anyway, Spartacus, good to know we do have some civic problems that can't be laid at the door of WBC!

I swear it's Deja Vu
Know that I can't get over you
'Cause everything I see is you
And I don't want no substitute
Baby I swear it's Deja Vu.

Beyoncé.

I'm not sure how much control you might think a business manager could have over lorry drivers using Faraday Road area for overnight stops. It's public highway and there's nothing to stop them overnight.

Thankfully dealing with lorry driver 'solids' isn't a daily thing, but it does happen all too often, presumably once the Harvester closes and the toilets are off limits. With the large number of HGVs that park up there are also plenty who pee in doorways when it's raining and they have the urge in the middle of the night.

Just as much as the citizens of certain streets complaining about cars parking in front of their property; which has engaged Councillors and Officers. Measures such as yellow lining and even formal parking charges have been introduced. However, the Council can hardly act to solve a problem it doesn't know exists.

Similarly, with regard to fouling. If this is as common as suggested, why haven't we heard about it? There isn't much of a turnover in Lorry drivers so detection isn't going to be that difficult. 'All too often' suggests its regular enough to invest in a cheap video surveillance at least.

No, it's either an urban myth or evidence of slack property management.

WBC consulted businesses in this area several years ago to see if they wanted measures to ban HGVs from the area overnight and chase them back to the motorway services. The majority response from businesses was that on balance they preferred the 'security' of having truckers in place throughout the night rather than the place being deserted and a magnet for quiet crime or vandalism.

They complained about the toilet habits of some and still do. Finding a turd on your doorstep may only be a once every six months event, but that is 'all too often' in my book...

It could also be 'revellers' on their way home too.

I think my mate who has a town centre apartment is probably more deserving of sympathy. Not a Saturday night goes by without human waste from one end or the other being deposited by his gate. Perhaps the lorry drivers are simply copying the locals. After all when in Rome. That is, if the culprit is a lorry driver of course.

Ha! What have the Romans ever done for us?

OK, so now we go down the road of Top Gear and blame all the lorryists of pooing in the street.

If your 'mate'. (Not the fat bloke down the pub), had any sense and understanding of electricity, he could nail the culprits.

I think OTE is referring to town party-goers and the pavement pizzas liberally thrown (up) around town after a busy weekend of 'revelling'. I'm on about truckers with loose bowels.

An a$$hole is an a$$hole..

I like the idea x2lls - an electric door mat would probably be more effective than a camera!

Nonetheless, I think Spartacus has explained, I for one am far from convinced that lorry drivers are causing the problem.

Not a lot of point in doing much about lorries in Faraday Road - they are already planning to flatten the lot in the next year or two.

As for the wharf - the plans were not so much to flatten as to dig down, turn it into a couple of ponds. Needless to say this involved giving away land - notably the Waterside Centre and a chunk by the Park Way bridge (for a nice new pub).

What sort of thing are you hoping for OTE, a nice new multi-story car park? Or a big underground one (time to get the pumps going again)?

Just a bit of intelligence in the overall layout. It would look far better as a sheet of level Tarmac, but without the derelict fencing, concrete posts and redundant pavements. Stop pretending there is a road through the site and just lay it out as a car park. Make the gate to the bridge a real one; only buses should use that. There is absolutely no reason why the Market exit shouldn't be closed completely, but the taxi mafia would doubtless scupper that - but even so a simple gate would suffice.

Can you say any more about what is planned for Faraday Road and the Wharf? Does the development of Faraday Road extend all the wy down Ampere Road? Is the Wharf basin going to be dug out?

I have no special knowledge, the extent of the Faraday Road revamp seems to change with each map printed by the NWN - the original scheme was fairly limited but WBC seem to have widened it loads. I have no idea how far down Ampere Road it goes, though the council do own a fair chunk of the land down there so some of it will be included.

The scope seems to be most of the estate - http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/12...raday-Road.html

The big dig in the Wharf has gone quiet since the public outcry scuppered the pavilion in the park - but I suspect a Wharf revamp is still lurking somewhere in the Vision.

The 10 minute grace period is for vehicles displaying expired pay and display tickets.
If you don't have a pay and display ticket then a 5 minute observation period applies before a PCN is issued.

Having spoken to my colleagues to see what their feedback is from members of the public, the new charges have had a largly positive response from drivers. There are now almost always space to park in Cheap Street and Bartholomew Street and a lot of people are grateful of this.

I personally believe it is the shops responsibilty to tempt shoppers into the town, not the council's.

Thanks, but is a '30 minute' ticket considered a 'pay and display' ticket?

Yes it is a 'Pay & Display' ticket, it's just that the tariff for the 30 minute period is zero. Tariff for 1 hour is £1.

Press the button twice for a ticket allowing you to stay for 30 minutes. Display that. The enforcement officers have to observe the vehicle for 10 minutes before they can slap a ticket on.

What I'm not sure (and GM can perhaps clarify) is your question assumes the officer is walking past a car smack on the 30 minute period and therefore a further 10 minutes of observation before prosecution allows 40 minutes parking. These officers in green can't be everywhere all the time though, so if they happen to check a car on one of their patrols and the driver has chanced it and the car has been there for an hour with just the 'free ticket' displayed without paying, does the CEO still have to give a further 10 minutes grace period before they can stick a ticket on or can they print off an instant enforcement ticket?

from: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/ar...l#ixzz3qiTTkZUU

So you don't appear to get 10 minutes of observation time, just 10 minutes of grace past the ticket expiry time.

I think the term Pay and Display is now out of date and misleading. It should now just be called a parking ticket. I think big signs should say quite clearly: No parking without displaying a ticket.


That can't be right, can it?


I read it that greenmeanie61 said that a parking tax collection officer will give someone 5 minutes to put a ticket on the vehicle (or sod off), which is a separate issue.

I assume it's national, but here in Reading if you're parked on yellow lines they have to give you 5 minutes of observation time, to make sure you aren't in the process of loading/unloading. The software on their handheld machines does not allow a ticket to be printed out instantly for that violation code. (If you're parked where there is a loading ban or where there is a 'No Stopping' restriction that's a different violation code and the 5 minute period does not apply and a ticket can be printed instantly)

If you're parked in a Limited Waiting or Pay & Display bay they now have to give you 10 minutes of observation beyond the expired time before they can issue a ticket and that is also presumably programmed into their handheld devices. From the comment Simon has put up it seems clear that you could park for 40 minutes in the 30 minute/1 hour bay without paying.

If you have a ticket that is 30 minutes over time, I'd 'like' to think there is a code which allows for an instant print.

That wouldn't take into account the modern method of 'PaybyPhone'. No ticket displayed.

The 'Pay & Display' term is just an expression we're used to which may no longer be strictly accurate but we know what we mean. It's like people of my age saying they're going to tape their favourite programme off the telly when there's no 'tape' involved any more....

I assumed a 'PaybyPhone' need still to print a ticket?


I understand that, but pay and display is multi faceted 'noun' and I think it is misleading.

Several pay by phone systems you txt them your reg number, they then have it in the system which uses ANPR to watch the car park entrance - if your number is in system no problem, if not sends a fine after looking up reg number on dvla database.

No warden to pay

A pay and display ticket is the thing that comes out of the pay and display machine. As Spartacus rightly says, everyone knows what that is. A parking ticket is what people think you receive on your windscreen when receiving a fine on or off private land. I believe a renaming would cause confusion. i.e. If you don't get a parking ticket, you'll get a parking ticket etc etc etc. Also, for the sake of accuracy, we are not "Parking Tax collection officers". We do not collect any money ourselves, we issue a PCN when we believe a contravention has occured on the public highway, in the interests of road safety and fairness for all. It is for the council parking services to decide whether the contravention stands and whether a penalty is payable.

So, if we come a cross a vehicle without clearly displaying a pay and display ticket, we would check to see if the vehicle is covered by mobile phone payment. If it isn't then we observe the vehicle for 5 minutes to make sure the driver hasn't gone off to get change. After the 5 minutes is up, we check the pay by phone system one last time and if the driver still hasn't paid, then a PCN can be issued. To clarify, 5 minutes observation is all that is required for no display in the West Berkshire Council area. *(It could very well be different for other local authorities.)

Expired pay and display tickets have a 10 minute grace period; so if we come across a vehicle with a pay and display ticket which has expired, we allow 10 minutes over the printed time. Example. If we saw a car at 12:30 with a ticket that expired at 12:00 we would issue a PCN straight away as the 10 minute grace period has already been observed. If we saw a vehicle at 14:30 with a ticket that expired at 14:32, we wouldn't be able to issue a PCN until 14:42 at the earliest. I think that this is a national standard for on street parking and council controlled pay and display car parks. Private car parks can do what they like.

You obviously won't have anything to display when you park and pay via the mobile phone payment system. This is explained in WBC parking policy, and also the pay by phone terms and conditions, which you agree to before paying and commencing your parking period. Our hand-held computers link into the system so we can see who has paid.

So you may park in Cheap Street and Bartholomew (in theory) for 40 minutes without paying, but not without displaying. I say in theory because the maximum free period is officially 30 minutes, with a grace period. Be fair to everyone else, we have to share our public highway!

I'd rather have a friendly green meanie to talk to than big brother watching my every move.

The private ANPR enforcement of car parks is hardly perfect, and causes misery for hundreds of people everyday. Not a clever solution.

It is not whether people know what a 'pay and display ticket' is, but whether they know they need one when parking on the road for 30 minutes or less. I know for a fact there are people who don't know they are meant to get tickets when parking for a short period.


The reason for my flippant reference was simply that I believe the principle reason parking charges and fines were introduced (as is also the case with some instances of speeding) was to raise revenue.

The proposal to increase parking charges as part of the WBC response to their losing £11M ofcentral government funding does indeed suggest that parking chargesare seen as an income stream

Actually, Andy Capp, I was one of them! On the basis of that's how it works elsewhere I've been.

I do know about the not needing a ticket with the phone pay ones though. Got caught at Newbury Station which cost me! Entirely my fault, ran for train, about to 'log in and pay' and the phone went, took the call and forgot.....'till I got back. Bang to rights they call it!

Well it looks like Basingstoke has the right idea. I quote from the 'Basingstoke & Deane Today Paper'
:- 'To help support a thriving town centre, the half hour free parking in short stay council run car parks in Basingstoke is planned to increase to an hour. The move follows feedback that the half hour parking the council introduced was to much of a rush for people wanting to just nip into town to sort something out or make a quick purchase'.
Now, doesn't that make sense !!

It sounds to me, like a council initiative from someone who actually gives a **** about their town. Well done Basingstoke!

It's quite a walk from their car parks. The extra half hour is needed just to get to the shops and back.

Yes let's compare Basingstoke with Newbury..... As Hatter says, the free half hour is pretty much used up just to get to the shops and back. What sort of "just nipping into town to sort something out or make a quick purchase" requires a whole hour in Newbury?

I have to say, I rarely pay to park in Newbury these days if I want to be quick. Since the free half hour, it's been reasonably easy to find somewhere close to the centre. Mind, I don't actually resent paying a pound for an hour in Parkway just so my better half can fill the boot without walking too far. Dare I say it's rather nice being able to wander around a good few shops in the car free centre whilst breathing real air and without the canned music.