This deserves another thread.

I'm split. I think it is a tremendous amount of money, and all the time we have such an expensive train service. When people say they want high speed, that is fine, but outside of business, I'm not sure it is vital. I have also heard that the idea that it will help other towns and cities compete is a false argument: it can have the opposite effect.

I think the point made ( on the other thread) was that people are trying to find out what information the decision to go ahead was based upon.

I'm afraid I can't see the benefits to Joe Public, especially those who live in West Berkshire!

The money spent on HS2 would not necessarily be spent elsewhere. There would also be a huge positive knock-on effect for UK plc in jobs and economic activity in building it.

I know that in Spain, building a high speed line from Madrid down to Seville did not have the desired effect, but that had a lot to do with the way it was funded and the general economy. Birmingham and Manchester are already established areas of high population and business.

When I used to fly from Manchester back to London, sometimes half the time in the air was stacking and waiting for a landing slot on a Friday evening. HS2 is as much about capacity as speed.

Electric trains can be powered by much greener energy than any plane, and if more people used the train then it would also alleviate congestion at LHR.

In which case wouldn't it reduce our deficit?



Depends rather on who the contracts are awarded to. I have heard this argument quite a lot, but I'm not sure that I believe it. I think that's what people are trying to find out.



So wouldn't it be better for the businesses to employ locally?



Don't know too much about UK flight routes, but i would have thought some of the regional airports would be a better bet than HR for people based in and around Newbury?



Yes but presumably there will be congestion at the train stations?

My scepticism is born out of the feeling that the case has not been suitably made. I think many of us have become so disillusioned with how government works, we smell a rat when ever something like this is proposed.

Trains are HORRIBLE places to be.
You rarely get a seat.
If you do you end up sat next to some hideously fat person who smells of fondue.

It certainly is more about capacity and attempting to enliven the other major cities in UK. After all, right now London is the UK as far and the rest of the World is concerned. I sincerely hope it works, if not, we have a massive national problem!

That we are essentially rebuilding what was ripped up back in the Sixties (Marples, the road builder's axe) is a monument to short termisim. The old Great Central mainline was constructed to the continental loading gauge and went to the right places. Never mind.

What, Clarkson goes by train?

no but unfortunately i do

Well the people who build it would be employed in UK and paying UK tax. They would also need all the support services, again more UK jobs.


They already do in many cases, but as companies grow they have different places of operation and workers need to travel.


In building a new national rail network, I think the argument is bigger than Newbury.


It's cheaper to build platforms than runways, if that is your concern. If an electric train does have to wait for a platform, it is not burning tonnes of fuel keeping it airborne?

Sorry you didn't like my new after shave, I'll change it next time.

trains are very good for City to City travel. The problem is when the trying to get onward connections to suburbs or surrounding towns.

Precisely! And if you don't live in a suburb or town with a station ( eg if you live in a village or on the outskirts of a market town such as Newbury you are reliant on the bus service or a car which you have to park somewhere.

Far better to invest in upgrading the national network; from last Friday's authoritative Building magazine:

Spending on consultants working on the first phase of the HS2 project is currently running 86% over budget, government spending figures have shown, with the revelation set to bolster opposition to the £43bn project.

An analysis by Building of the Department for Transport (DfT) HS2 spending to the end of February 2014 has revealed that HS2 Ltd has overshot its allocated £101m budget for four lots of professional services contracts by £87m, taking the total spend to £188m - 86% over budget.

We have seen such huge overspends in past on grand projects!

Yes, the Channel Tunnel is an example. At one point the financial backers were going to pull out because of an 86% cost overrun. But it got constructed and is now well used.

Whatever they do, let's at least make sure the trains will fit the stations, unlike, for instance, the French

We aren't much better. The Eurostar platforms at Waterloo were left empty for years.

Bearing in mind the ever growing population of this country and the increasing price and scarcity of fuel do we .....
Build more railways
Build more roads
Build more runways
Reduce the need for travel
Do nothing
?

...or make journeys more efficient.

Good point but how?
Build straight, electric, high speed railway lines??
Ban cars
Bigger planes
Mega bus ways
?

Ban people working more than 2 miles from their workplace?

No they are not.

I went from Reading to Leeds by train once.
Got delayed by 3 hours and had to get an expensive taxi to my final destination.

Return journey got delayed by 8 hours (I sh*t you not) and ended up getting a shared taxi back from BIRMINGHAM to Thatcham

All trains do is take you from one train station to another.

The Green Party do have a point! What is it with all this commuting? After all isn't Newbury supposed to be the 'communications Capital' of UK in a hi tech way? Having suffered the experience for periods of my life, I'm sure not even MM would 'enjoy' the joys driving on the M4 beyond Reading in the morning rush everyday!

Newbury's great communications are making it a dormitory town for Reading and London. With all the new housing going up this will only get worse, after all there are no significant new employers coming to town, which would be difficult anyway with industrial areas becoming housing plots and offices being turned into flats.

The Reading to Leeds Cross Country service has always been cr*p.

As for other services as I said City Centre to City Centre is fine, its the hanging around to get to the outskirts that makes it more attractive to go by car!

All part of the Master Plan, I thought you knew!

I'd be impressed if I thought there was a plan - but all that happens is knee jerk responses to 'problems' of the moment. At the moment housing is the big issue so planning is imbalanced to encourage house building. It doesn't seem to have occured to them (govt) that creating new dormitory communities might result in a need for new transport infrastructure.

Instead we get wittering about home working and planning legislation to ensure houses have space to store pushbikes.

Yes, quite agree! It's ready, fire, aim planning. Just an aside that illustrates this. In the free Reading Chronicle they give out in Sainsburys, the Royal Berks Hospital Management are saying lack of parking isn't a problem. The real issue is trying to stop people coming to one big building for treatment......errr might that just be the result of you down grading local facilities to concentrate everything on one site? Forward planning!