Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Will this sort out our traffic?
Newbury Today Forum > Categories > Newbury News
Pages: 1, 2
Bofem
I think most of us are aware that WBC wants to ban buses in Northbrook Street, scrap the taxi rank in the Market Place, and sundry other bits and bobs to address town centre traffic issues.

This is to be decided next week
They seemed to have missed me off their consultation, but did ask some 'interest groups' and here's what they said, with the WBC response on the right.

What do you all think?




Iommi
Higher taxi fares when leaving the rank.
Cognosco
QUOTE (Bofem @ Jan 7 2011, 05:26 PM) *
I think most of us are aware that WBC wants to ban buses in Northbrook Street, scrap the taxi rank in the Market Place, and sundry other bits and bobs to address town centre traffic issues.

This is to be decided next week
They seemed to have missed me off their consultation, but did ask some 'interest groups' and here's what they said, with the WBC response on the right.

What do you all think?


More experimental tinkering? Only way to solve main problem is new bridge and road over the river Kennet somewhere. Especially with all new housing being planned. Any suggestions?
user23
They built another bridge over the Kennet ten plus years ago.

The only cost effective way to reduce traffic is for people to use their cars less. There's two main methods to achieve this:

1) The local government to do it and introduce a congestion scheme. This is something no politician will dream of suggesting just before an election.

2) People to use public transport more, something most won't do because however much they moan about being stuck in a traffic jam partly of their creation they prefer it to standing at a bus stop.
Iommi
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 7 2011, 06:20 PM) *
They built another bridge over the Kennet ten plus years ago.

The only cost effective way to reduce traffic is for people to use their cars less. There's two main methods to achieve this:

1) The local government to do it and introduce a congestion scheme. This is something no politician will dream of suggesting just before an election.

2) People to use public transport more, something most won't do because however much they moan about being stuck in a traffic jam partly of their creation they prefer it to standing at a bus stop.

There's a third: use the Internet, supermarkets and retail parks as much as you can.

And a fourth: if you live within a mile of the town, walk you lazy feckers!

A fifth: spend more time in pubs than shopping.
gardeb
I hope buses are banned from Northbrook Street as soon as possible together with all traffic, including cyclists to make the whole area much safer. At the moment it looks fully pedestrianised but just as you start to think like that a bus bears down.

Discouraging motorists from Newbury will probably add to the speed of its demise since from rural areas there is no sensible ammount of public transport. Despite what the greens may think we do enjoy using our cars even though the government and council see the motorist as a cash cow.
Darren
Ban buses for the town centre.

Make those lazy pensioners walk further to get their tins of cat food. The exercise will do them good!! wink.gif
Bofem
I was thinking this the other day while stuck in traffic on A4 between Newbury and Thatcham. Mostly, it's two lanes all the way, so WBC want to turn that into a bus lane. There are 7 buses an hour between the two towns.

Persuading people to dump the car, walk to a bus stop, wait in the rain, sit next to some ropey strangers, then walk to work/shops/whatever at other end needs a lot of persuasion....I can afford not to do it. But for how long?

Car-sharing would be much more achievable. Incentivised rather than penalised, people always respond better. So instead of a bus lane, it could be a multiple occupancy lane, like they have in Holland.
Iommi
Thatcham to Newbury? Push-bike.
Biker1
QUOTE (Bofem @ Jan 7 2011, 10:15 PM) *
What do you all think?

I know I've said it before but this really grates on me.................
We were told ten or more years ago that the by-pass would "sort out our traffic". laugh.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Bofem @ Jan 7 2011, 05:26 PM) *
I think most of us are aware that WBC wants to ban buses in Northbrook Street, scrap the taxi rank in the Market Place, and sundry other bits and bobs to address town centre traffic issues.

This is to be decided next week
They seemed to have missed me off their consultation, but did ask some 'interest groups' and here's what they said, with the WBC response on the right.

What do you all think?


So long as cyclists are still allowed to ride through Northbrook street then I'll go along with the ban on buses etc. We've got to get our priorities right wink.gif
GMR
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 7 2011, 09:15 PM) *
Thatcham to Newbury? Push-bike.



I do.
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 8 2011, 09:41 AM) *
I know I've said it before but this really grates on me................. We were told ten or more years ago that the by-pass would "sort out our traffic". laugh.gif

But that would be to assume the by-pass was built for Newbury. As we should know, it wasn't.

Think what it would be like if the by-pass wasn't built! At the end of the day, Newbury's traffic is nothing like as bad as it used to be.
Cognosco
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 7 2011, 09:15 PM) *
Thatcham to Newbury? Push-bike.


To include a trailer for the weekly shopping? Somewhere to park the Push-Bike and Trailer? Extra seating for the baby and toddler? No chance stick to the Chelsea tractor! wink.gif
Iommi
QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jan 8 2011, 11:22 AM) *
To include a trailer for the weekly shopping? Somewhere to park the Push-Bike and Trailer? Extra seating for the baby and toddler? No chance stick to the Chelsea tractor! wink.gif

Er, it would be cheaper to have no car and get a taxi once a week, or use the car out-side of rush hour. All other times, push-bike.
Biker1
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 8 2011, 12:20 PM) *
But that would be to assume the by-pass was built for Newbury. As we should know, it wasn't.

Agreed - but that's what we were told.

The moral being - you cant build your way out of this problem - other solutions have to be found.
Richard Garvie
Thatcham to Newbury - Seven buses an hour according to a post on this thread. Why not use the bus?
Chesapeake
QUOTE (gardeb @ Jan 7 2011, 07:28 PM) *
I hope buses are banned from Northbrook Street as soon as possible together with all traffic, including cyclists to make the whole area much safer. At the moment it looks fully pedestrianised but just as you start to think like that a bus bears down.

Discouraging motorists from Newbury will probably add to the speed of its demise since from rural areas there is no sensible ammount of public transport. Despite what the greens may think we do enjoy using our cars even though the government and council see the motorist as a cash cow.


I agree, I also think that buses should be baned from Northbrook Street. As a mother of 2 children it is a nightmare. It looks like it's pedestrian only even to a small child as people are walking all over the area all the time and to a child this means there is no traffic and then a BL**DY great big bus comes along! I am not an engineer but where I used to live in London the main shopping street was flly pedestrianised except for emergency access. At either end of the main street there were bus stop "areas" and car parks so this meant easy access. I think that Newbury could adopt the same with a few alterations.

I also think that the bridge across the canal by Camps should be either widened to take two way traffic (if they could keep it's rather pleasing aesthetics) or an additional (twin) bridge built to keep the flow of traffic moving. I'm not an architect but I am sure this could be possible. wink.gif
Chesapeake
Sorry for the second post but I also think that by making Northbrook Street pedestrian only and placing additional car parking and bus stops at either end it would increase the footfall for businesses in the town centre and the market place. wink.gif
Iommi
QUOTE (Chesapeake @ Jan 8 2011, 12:23 PM) *
I agree, I also think that buses should be baned from Northbrook Street. As a mother of 2 children it is a nightmare. It looks like it's pedestrian only even to a small child as people are walking all over the area all the time and to a child this means there is no traffic and then a BL**DY great big bus comes along!

Great! Get rid of the buses and now we have bloody feral kids to contend with! tongue.gif
betsy
QUOTE (Bofem @ Jan 7 2011, 08:38 PM) *
I was thinking this the other day while stuck in traffic on A4 between Newbury and Thatcham. Mostly, it's two lanes all the way, so WBC want to turn that into a bus lane. There are 7 buses an hour between the two towns.

Persuading people to dump the car, walk to a bus stop, wait in the rain, sit next to some ropey strangers, then walk to work/shops/whatever at other end needs a lot of persuasion....I can afford not to do it. But for how long?

Car-sharing would be much more achievable. Incentivised rather than penalised, people always respond better. So instead of a bus lane, it could be a multiple occupancy lane, like they have in Holland.


Love to know where you get 7 buses an hour between Newbury and Thatcham? Most I can find is 4 and of these only 1 goes around the area I live in.
GMR
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 8 2011, 12:45 PM) *
Great! Get rid of the buses and now we have bloody feral kids to contend with! tongue.gif


How about we keep the buses and get rid of the 'feral kids'?
user23
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 8 2011, 09:41 AM) *
I know I've said it before but this really grates on me.................
We were told ten or more years ago that the by-pass would "sort out our traffic". laugh.gif
It did, then everyone decided to use their car more.

The more roads you build the more people will use their cars. That's just how it works.
Iommi
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 8 2011, 03:16 PM) *
It did, then everyone decided to use their car more. The more roads you build the more people will use their cars. That's just how it works.

Yet more people than ever before use trains! Prices are going up there as well.
Chesapeake
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 8 2011, 12:45 PM) *
Great! Get rid of the buses and now we have bloody feral kids to contend with! tongue.gif



Are you suggesting that my children are "feral"???? laugh.gif
On the edge
Its not more car use its more cars. Always amazes me that no one, least of all those responsible for the infrastructure have actually noticed that Newbury and its environs have experienced massive growth since the by pass was opened. This should have been anticipated, planned for and delivered - after all its no massive surprise - we spend thousands creating 'local developmentr plans'. However,for the past 20 years our local Council has been stuck in a time warp - assuming Newbury is just a quaint old market town. All those new houses mean all those new cars...
user23
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 8 2011, 07:16 PM) *
Its not more car use its more cars. Always amazes me that no one, least of all those responsible for the infrastructure have actually noticed that Newbury and its environs have experienced massive growth since the by pass was opened. This should have been anticipated, planned for and delivered - after all its no massive surprise - we spend thousands creating 'local developmentr plans'. However,for the past 20 years our local Council has been stuck in a time warp - assuming Newbury is just a quaint old market town. All those new houses mean all those new cars...
On the one hand the Labour government ordered more houses to to be built, on the other some vocal locals moaned that Newbury is a small market town. The result it what we have now.
Turin Machine
yeah sure, I thought the idea of a towncentre was that people could go there to buy things, not much use if you have to carry everything home is it.. Its alright for those people who are young fit and only interested in going to mackie D's but what about the elderly, infirm and disadvantaged, what are they supposed to do ? or don't they matter anymore ?

Sure lets have a nice pretty town centre full of feral kids and beggers but no shops ! What is this great desire for pedestrianisation for gods sake. O, and if you can't see or hear a dirty great red bus trundling down the road I suggest you stop listening to your ipod and start paying attention. Selfish buggers !
On the edge
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 8 2011, 07:19 PM) *
On the one hand the Labour government ordered more houses to to be built, on the other some vocal locals moan that Newbury is a small market town. The result it what we have now.

That's a pretty good summary. We had no choice about the development - Councillors pandering to the local Ned Ludd tendancy hasn't helped!
Biker1
QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 8 2011, 04:16 PM) *
It did, then everyone decided to use their car more.

The more roads you build the more people will use their cars. That's just how it works.

Exactly!
On the edge
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 8 2011, 08:26 PM) *
Exactly!

Errr no. Its more people, if we hadn't had to build all those new houses, traffic levels would have reduced when the bypass opened and stayed reduced. The A34 itself had a traffic increase, occassioned by releasing the pent up demand for Southampton docks access to the North. The only time a road generated traffic was the M1 - when it opened, it became a tourist attraction for a short time. Do you honestly know anyone locally who has increased the number of car trips they make simply because the by pass has opened? I do know several people who have recently moved here bringing their cars with them. I also know a couple who now use a car because the local bus service has reduced its already poor service. The self generation of traffic story is an urban myth,
Biker1
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 8 2011, 10:36 PM) *
Errr no. Its more people, if we hadn't had to build all those new houses, traffic levels would have reduced when the bypass opened and stayed reduced. The A34 itself had a traffic increase, occassioned by releasing the pent up demand for Southampton docks access to the North. The only time a road generated traffic was the M1 - when it opened, it became a tourist attraction for a short time. Do you honestly know anyone locally who has increased the number of car trips they make simply because the by pass has opened? I do know several people who have recently moved here bringing their cars with them. I also know a couple who now use a car because the local bus service has reduced its already poor service. The self generation of traffic story is an urban myth,

Nope, if you create the space then it will be filled.

Like the M25 - now a traffic jam most of the day but where was all the traffic before it was built?
On the edge
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 8 2011, 11:30 PM) *
Nope, if you create the space then it will be filled.

Like the M25 - now a traffic jam most of the day but where was all the traffic before it was built?

Stationary round the then North and South 'circulars' and in railway waggons. The traffic was always there. Just that the planners 'understated' the volume for political reasons. The engineers knew it was too small even before the first sod was cut. One can understand the reasons for this - can you imagine what the nay sayers would have done if they'd planned for reality - an 8 lane motorway?

By way of example - if we had a proper transport link with Basingstoke, the traffic on the existing cart track would increase significantly as people took up the opportunities the proper link would provide. Like jobs but hey who wants them!
dannyboy
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 8 2011, 09:36 PM) *
The A34 itself had a traffic increase, occassioned by releasing the pent up demand for Southampton docks access to the North. The self generation of traffic story is an urban myth,

bollocks
NWNREADER
Not necessarily complete rubbish:
Cruise ships

and

Container Terminal

Doubtless these two facilities have some impact on the A34 traffic patterns.
Richard Garvie
I agree, the new A34 will have seen increased useage due to the fact it is a superb link between the midlands / north and the south coast.
On the edge
[quote name='dannyboy' date='Jan 9 2011, 12:29 PM' post='3
bollocks
[/quote]
What an intelligent well considered response - get out much these days?
Cognosco
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 9 2011, 12:29 PM) *
bollocks


Not a politician then Danny? Man of few words - but at least straight to the point - no ambiguity with that then! tongue.gif
GMR
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 9 2011, 12:29 PM) *
bollocks


Is this a medical problem of yours then? Or are you actually complaining or boasting?
dannyboy
The A34 always was the N-S link between Southampton & Portsmouth and the north of the UK. The Newbury by pass is simply a missing link. The road was & is part of a pan-european road network, the A34 being part of the link from Scotland to Portugal. The building of the Newbury By Pass simply shaved 30 mins off a truckers journey to the docks. Oh, and was hijacked for political ends.
dannyboy
QUOTE (Cognosco @ Jan 9 2011, 01:53 PM) *
Not a politician then Danny? Man of few words - but at least straight to the point - no ambiguity with that then! tongue.gif

Not a politician, or a wanna be either. If I was I'd be unable to give a direct answer to a question.
betsy
QUOTE (Darren @ Jan 7 2011, 07:41 PM) *
Ban buses for the town centre.

Make those lazy pensioners walk further to get their tins of cat food. The exercise will do them good!! wink.gif

Just a point Darren! I am a pensioner and proud of it. I am not and never have been lazy. Paid all my taxes, worked and brought up two kids so don't lump us all together. I may be a bit slower now due to illhealth etc. but I need the buses and incidentally- I don't have a cat!!
Darren
QUOTE (betsy @ Jan 9 2011, 06:01 PM) *
Just a point Darren! I am a pensioner and proud of it. I am not and never have been lazy. Paid all my taxes, worked and brought up two kids so don't lump us all together. I may be a bit slower now due to illhealth etc. but I need the buses and incidentally- I don't have a cat!!


Just a point. The wink.gif icon indicate it was not a serious comment. rolleyes.gif
Darren
QUOTE (dannyboy @ Jan 9 2011, 02:29 PM) *
The building of the Newbury By Pass simply shaved 30 mins off a truckers journey to the docks.


On a good day. Sunday evenings that would be 2 hours or more. It was often quicker for traffic to go M40, A404(M), M4, M25, M3, M275 than to sit in the queues.
dannyboy
QUOTE (Darren @ Jan 10 2011, 07:44 AM) *
On a good day. Sunday evenings that would be 2 hours or more. It was often quicker for traffic to go M40, A404(M), M4, M25, M3, M275 than to sit in the queues.

which is why Sunday evening is such a popular trucking day!
On the edge
To a transport logistics manager half an hour is big money and so the pent up demand. The 'by pass' itself didn't generate traffic - lets send a few lorries out simply because the A34 is now running.
Biker1
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jan 10 2011, 04:54 PM) *
The 'by pass' itself didn't generate traffic

Yes it did - just like every road building scheme.
Otherwise why are we now bleating on about Newbury's traffic? (Which by the way seems to me to be no worse, and in some cases better, than most other medium to large towns and cities.)
The by-pass created a gap and it was filled.

Anyway - we are 15 years too late to be having this debate except the lesson to be learnt that you cannot build your way out of this problem unless we tarmac over most of the country.
Iommi
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2011, 03:47 PM) *
Yes it did - just like every road building scheme.
Otherwise why are we now bleating on about Newbury's traffic? (Which by the way seems to me to be no worse, and in some cases better, than most other medium to large towns and cities.)
The by-pass created a gap and it was filled.

Anyway - we are 15 years too late to be having this debate except the lesson to be learnt that you cannot build your way out of this problem unless we tarmac over most of the country.

I can assure you that the traffic queues these days are nothing like as bad as they used to be. As proof, just look at the size of the jams through town if the by-pass is closed for any length of time.

Through-traffic volume was growing, and the by-pass was built to cope with it. A need for a by-pass is and was a no-brainer.

The complaints about jams in Newbury have been the result of the works that have been going on lately.
blackdog
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2011, 03:47 PM) *
Yes it did - just like every road building scheme.
Otherwise why are we now bleating on about Newbury's traffic? (Which by the way seems to me to be no worse, and in some cases better, than most other medium to large towns and cities.)
The by-pass created a gap and it was filled.

Anyway - we are 15 years too late to be having this debate except the lesson to be learnt that you cannot build your way out of this problem unless we tarmac over most of the country.

People bleat about the Newbury traffice because some people need to bleat. In reality the traffic in town is nothing like as bad as it was pre-bypass.

However, traffic levels are rising - because we have more houses, more businesses and more cars than we used to have. The bypass may be partly to blame because its building meant that the local roads were then able to cope with the development of more houses, offices and industrial units (though they may well have been built anyway).

Biker1
QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 10 2011, 05:13 PM) *
I can assure you that the traffic queues these days are nothing like as bad as they used to be.


QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 10 2011, 05:13 PM) *
The complaints about jams in Newbury have been the result of the works that have been going on lately.

Then why this thread?
If traffic queues are not as bad as they were pre by-pass and the works that are causing any jams are only temporary, what is the problem?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2019 Invision Power Services, Inc.