Careless Driving/Dangerous Driving Options

[tim]

This time last week i was at Reading Crown Court waiting for the jury to decide thier verdict on the idiot that killed my brother . When it came i was devistated that they found him guilty of the lesser charge of Death by Careless Driving . He knows himself by the appalling injuries my brother substained that he was not driving carelessly. And to top it all he his still able to drive now !!!

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Hopefully if he has any soul the guilt he must feel should stop him from driving.

[tim]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

Hopefully if he has any soul the guilt he must feel should stop him from driving.

He showed no remorse at the trial whatsoever , infact in a police statement he thought he had done nothing wrong

[Roost]

You truely have my deepest sympathies for whatever good they will do.

There will always be idiots that don't receive the justice that is obviously deserved.

It almost makes you wish for a higher power that can pass later judgement on said idiots.

[tim]

He showed no remorse at the trial whatsoever , infact in a police statement he thought he had done nothing wrong

Thank you Roost , your kind words do mean very much to me . You make much sense in what you say . To many do - gooders in a jury these days

[diamond41970]

Tim

So sorry for your loss hun. I fortunately have never lost anyone before they were due to go if that makes any sense and to be killed in such a way is horrific. Obviously this guy does not deserve to breathe himself but unfortunately we can not do anything about it. Please don't let this eat you up you have to think of your life and family - again I can't really comment because nothing like this has happened to me !!! My thoughts are with you.

[GMR]

I am also sorry about your loss. I also have no faith in the justice system.

[Iommi]

Losing a sibling is indescribable. There is nothing I can think of that is either useful, nor worthwhile to say, I'm sorry Tim.

[Andy]

There will always be idiots that don't receive the justice that is obviously deserved.

Obviously this guy does not deserve to breathe himself but unfortunately we can not do anything about it.

I also have no faith in the justice system.

Whilst I have every sympathy for your loss Tim, your view on the outcome will undoubtedly and understandably be biased. This is in no way a criticism of that stance, as I would probably feel the same in your situation.

I'm afraid I cannot however mindlessly condemn someone who has been given, what I assume, a fair trial. I can only believe that the evidence submitted was insufficient to convict on the more serious charge and it's would be a very dangerous path we would be treading if the "mob" rule mentality as intimated above were to prevail.

[Roost]

Andy, I can find no mention, suggestion or intimation of 'mob rule' in any of the posts (including mine!!)

No-one has advocated this. We have all passed our sympathies on to tim and most of us have suggested that maybe justice in this case was not served. Some have professed to an all too common lack of faith in the British legal system.

In fact my post also refers to the wish for a higher power (and I don't mean the european courts!) who according to literature / belief reserves the right for final judgement.

Nobody here has 'condemned' anyone.

We have just posted our subjective views which by the very nature of them and particularly when tackling an emotive subject will always be subjective and therefore biased.

[GMR]

Whilst I have every sympathy for your loss Tim, your view on the outcome will undoubtedly and understandably be biased. This is in no way a criticism of that stance, as I would probably feel the same in your situation.

I'm afraid I cannot however mindlessly condemn someone who has been given, what I assume, a fair trial. I can only believe that the evidence submitted was insufficient to convict on the more serious charge and it's would be a very dangerous path we would be treading if the "mob" rule mentality as intimated above were to prevail.

There was no 'mob rule mentality'. I said I didn't have much faith in the system, and I don't. The trial might have been fair but the outcome; the sentence wasn't. Just because a trial is seen as fair doesn't mean it is correct or there is nothing wrong with the system.

[Iommi]

To comment on the fairness of the verdict, we would have to know the facts. Tim sat in on the case, but I presume no one else here is in possession of the facts to enable them to come to a learned opinion.

I can only think the verdict hung on two points, Gary's fateful decision to cross a busy dual carriage way where he did and the driver's behaviour on the road. I doubt the driver deliberately tried to kill someone, but driving in a manner he is alleged to have done, should have at very least carried a manslaughter type charge, in my view.

I would have expected the driver to have lost his licence, at very least. It is also very regrettable that the driver should demonstrate no remorse for what he has done and I think the penalty he received for what he has done should have reflect that.

All this, of course, won't repair the damage this incident has caused in the Murphy's family, but I think sometimes we treat motoring offences to lightly.

[gel]

There was no 'mob rule mentality'. I said I didn't have much faith in the system, and I don't. The trial might have been fair but the outcome; the sentence wasn't. Just because a trial is seen as fair doesn't mean it is correct or there is nothing wrong with the system.

I believe Dangerous Driving has always been notoriously hard to prove and thought they now had an alternative.

If the miscreant did not intentionally set out to mow down the victim, but nevertheless achieved same end result by his carelessness/lack of skills+application, we should surely have "Death by Careless driving" statute on the books?

His insurers should ensure it's too expensive for him to consider getting behind the wheel,
that's if he bothers with such niceities.
Surprised there was no period of banning in such a case, and requirement to resit the driving test.

Hopefully the traffic rozzers will be keeping a close eye on his antics now, so he doesn't cause~anyone else such a loss.

[Iommi]

His insurers should ensure it's too expensive for him to consider getting behind the wheel, that's if he bothers with such niceities. Surprised there was no period of banning in such a case, and requirement to resit the driving test. Hopefully the traffic rozzers will be keeping a close eye on his antics now, so he doesn't cause~anyone else such a loss.

Agreed, it is clear that he is irresponsible and should have had a ban and re-test at the minimum. I'd also consider having his car crushed. If I were Tim, the thing that would grate me most, after the event, is the lack of apparent remorse

It always seems so 'cold' for all this to come down to technicalities, but I presume the choice of where Gary crossed the road was a mitigating factor in 'favour' of the defence. Had the car careered off the road and killed someone, I would expect a different out-come in court.

It doesn't, however, get away from the fact that this driver was driving in a manor that endangered life and he fails to except he was. This on its own should be enough to take him off the road.

[GMR]

I believe Dangerous Driving has always been notoriously hard to prove and thought they now had an alternative.

If the miscreant did not intentionally set out to mow down the victim, but nevertheless achieved same end result by his carelessness/lack of skills+application, we should surely have "Death by Careless driving" statute on the books?

His insurers should ensure it's too expensive for him to consider getting behind the wheel,
that's if he bothers with such niceities.
Surprised there was no period of banning in such a case, and requirement to resit the driving test.

Hopefully the traffic rozzers will be keeping a close eye on his antics now, so he doesn't cause~anyone else such a loss.

I agree, sadly that doesn't always happen. Some people just don't learn.

[Andy]

Andy, I can find no mention, suggestion or intimation of 'mob rule' in any of the posts (including mine!!)

No-one has advocated this. We have all passed our sympathies on to tim and most of us have suggested that maybe justice in this case was not served. Some have professed to an all too common lack of faith in the British legal system.

In fact my post also refers to the wish for a higher power (and I don't mean the european courts!) who according to literature / belief reserves the right for final judgement.

Nobody here has 'condemned' anyone.

We have just posted our subjective views which by the very nature of them and particularly when tackling an emotive subject will always be subjective and therefore biased.

Apologies if I misinterpeted it, but I took you "higher power" comment in conjunction with Diamond's "does not deserve to breathe" to mean that this guy should now die for a motoring offence that he was found not guilty of.

[Berkshirelad]

The problem in obtaining a conviction for Dangerous Driving is the requirement to prove intent rather than a simple disregard for the risks involved.

Careless driving only requires that the standard of driving was below that expected of a normal driver.

In order to overcome thi issue, the offence of "Death by Careless Driving was introduced

[Bloggo]

The "Law" was served in this case but sadly I don't believe that "Justice " was.
Tim, you have my condolenses.

[ossy1]

I do sympathise with you Tim.

However people, before we condem the justice system it would be worth reading the article about this as it clearly says that the offending driver is to be sentenced on 21st May and the judge has informed him that all options are being considered, this includes prison.

So at the moment he is not banned. As right or wrong as that may be when sentenced I suspect he will receive one.

[GMR]

I do sympathise with you Tim.

However people, before we condem the justice system it would be worth reading the article about this as it clearly says that the offending driver is to be sentenced on 21st May and the judge has informed him that all options are being considered, this includes prison.

So at the moment he is not banned. As right or wrong as that may be when sentenced I suspect he will receive one.

Many police condemn the Justice system for not handing out appropriate sentencing.