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> Khan Juna out of Thames Valley police commissioner election, The former chairman of the Thames Valley Police Authority has pulled o
Ruwan Uduwerage-...
post Oct 20 2012, 12:29 PM
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Khan Juna out of Thames Valley police commissioner election

The former chairman of the Thames Valley Police Authority has pulled out of the police and crime commissioner elections.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19952511


The question has to be ask, just how democratic and inclusive the Police & Crime Commissioners elections are, that are due to take place on 15th November, when someone who clearly has a great depth of knowledge and experience in policing issues, but has no party political backing has to withdraw from the election process as a result of funds?

The PCC programme has been railroaded through from within the Tory ranks of the Coalition Government without being tried and tested, and I cannot see how replacing the Police Authority (that currently contains political and independent members) with one politically influenced person is going to increase public confidence and participation.

As a former police officer, I am only too aware of the need for police reform, but the introduction of PCC's is in my opinion a retrospective step, and the outcome will be akin to the Chief Officer, in days gone by, having to ask to 'Lord of the Manor' for their (uneducated) opinion on policing matters.

Policing today is not as it once was a blue collar occupation, but requires its membership to be highly educated in criminology and criminal justice issues, motivated and professional. Replacing the Police Authority with someone who has limited or no understanding of policing or the criminal justice system, plus has no job specific qualifications, academic or otherwise, will lead either to, the Police & Crime Commissioner being overwhelmed by the advice of the highly skill senior police officers (all of whom, possess the former qualifications), and influenced totally by their opinions, or the total opposite, whereby the PCC, simply cannot be advised, for they know best, as they were allegedly elected by the people. In few cases do I foresee the middle way approach happening.

Hopefully, when the next Government is elected, and lets hoe that it is not a Tory one, they will be able to undo the damage done to our police service, and the rest of the public sector by the current Tories.
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NWNREADER
post Oct 20 2012, 01:10 PM
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The whole PCC concept is a pile of pants regardless of politics. (Sadly, experience shows these things come from brainy people in the Home Office and they keep re-introducing the pet idea, regardless of the Party in government.) Neither party over the last 50-odd years has any claim to moral high ground on policing policy.
It will politicise policing to an extent previously unimagined. One of the first principles of Government is to keep the security services on-side. That can be done be being nice to them, or placing controls that ensure compliance. Often the latter is done with a kindly 'this will be good for everyone'.

A great shame independent candidates are finding it so hard to get to the ballot paper. Maybe there needs to be a support network led by some benevolent entrepreneur who will fund and support the campaigns.
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Adrian Hollister
post Oct 21 2012, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Oct 20 2012, 02:10 PM) *
The whole PCC concept is a pile of pants regardless of politics. (Sadly, experience shows these things come from brainy people in the Home Office and they keep re-introducing the pet idea, regardless of the Party in government.) Neither party over the last 50-odd years has any claim to moral high ground on policing policy.
It will politicise policing to an extent previously unimagined. One of the first principles of Government is to keep the security services on-side. That can be done be being nice to them, or placing controls that ensure compliance. Often the latter is done with a kindly 'this will be good for everyone'.

A great shame independent candidates are finding it so hard to get to the ballot paper. Maybe there needs to be a support network led by some benevolent entrepreneur who will fund and support the campaigns.

Why we would want to politicise the Police force like this I've no idea. Best to fight crime on a legal basis and not out of popular politics.
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NWNREADER
post Oct 21 2012, 09:35 AM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Oct 21 2012, 10:28 AM) *
Why we would want to politicise the Police force like this I've no idea. Best to fight crime on a legal basis and not out of popular politics.

'We' don't...............
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Adrian Hollister
post Oct 21 2012, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Oct 21 2012, 10:35 AM) *
'We' don't...............

smile.gif
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March Hair
post Oct 21 2012, 02:49 PM
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The whole idea is a bad move but Its a great sadness that independents are stepping down. I should think he feels pretty lost at sea when a fellow member of the Police Authority is also standing - with his political party hat on, and already has his brand new shiny website and twitter account on which, incidentally, he is presumptuously naming himself @StansfeldPCC . Its a farce.
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John C
post Oct 21 2012, 03:08 PM
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How can this be regarded as democratic. I know this wont happen but what would happen if nobody voted. I haven't had anything about any of the candidates yet posted through my letter box yet.
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Gooner72
post Oct 21 2012, 04:38 PM
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I just find it amzing that the Government are cutting Police budgets but can find money from somewhere to fund advertising for the PCC debacle!!!
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Dodgys smarter b...
post Oct 21 2012, 04:45 PM
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The role of Thames Valley Police Commissioner, might, in the future gain in importance.

I would urge people to to vote. I would urge people to vote for whomsoever they feel is the best candidate.

I would also remind people that because he was 'conned' over the installation of the new CCTV gear, because under his watch they forgot to order the audio links, because under his watch although the recordings are better the pictures are worse and the zoom facility is now useless, and because under his watch the bad guys on the streets can get away with more, Councillor Stansfield has actually done more through his ineptitude and incompetence to make our streets unsafe than any other individual in W.B.C. in the last three years.

Please take that thought into the polling booth with you.
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NWNREADER
post Oct 21 2012, 06:33 PM
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I don't rate the fella one bit, but Tony B Liars pet copper, Ian Blair was on radio today urging people not to vote at all. About the only time I have agreed with him.

If no-one votes there will be no mandate. In an area as diverse as Thames Valley (and others) one person cannot hope to understand the issues and promote activities.

I reckon any vote demonstrates support for a naff idea more than a naff candidate.
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post Oct 21 2012, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (NWNREADER @ Oct 21 2012, 07:33 PM) *
I don't rate the fella one bit, but Tony B Liars pet copper, Ian Blair was on radio today urging people not to vote at all. About the only time I have agreed with him.

If no-one votes there will be no mandate. In an area as diverse as Thames Valley (and others) one person cannot hope to understand the issues and promote activities.

I reckon any vote demonstrates support for a naff idea more than a naff candidate.



would this work in an election for Councillors etc. if no one or a tiny minority voted what would happen?
Interesting thought! rolleyes.gif


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On the edge
post Oct 21 2012, 08:45 PM
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Spoilt ballot paper might be better alternative. Nothing rude, just strike through whole lot. Shows you care about democracy but not the party machines.


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March Hair
post Oct 22 2012, 08:15 AM
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Sadly, if those of us who are not impressed by Mr Stansfeld choose not to vote at all, he still has enough support within his political party across the Thames Valley to ensure that even a small turnout will put him in role. No doubt you will soon get knocks at your door or flyers, singing his praises. A great big spin machine.
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Adrian Hollister
post Oct 22 2012, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Oct 21 2012, 09:45 PM) *
Spoilt ballot paper might be better alternative. Nothing rude, just strike through whole lot. Shows you care about democracy but not the party machines.

Sadly, there is no "I don't want an elected commissioner" vote. If you don't put a vote in then any extreme could get voted in. Think of the demographics that are likely to vote - would you want their views imposed through the police on you?
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NWNREADER
post Oct 22 2012, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Oct 22 2012, 09:45 AM) *
Sadly, there is no "I don't want an elected commissioner" vote. If you don't put a vote in then any extreme could get voted in. Think of the demographics that are likely to vote - would you want their views imposed through the police on you?


Also sadly, the outcome you warn about is almost guaranteed
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Rusty Bullet
post Oct 22 2012, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Dodgys smarter brother. @ Oct 21 2012, 05:45 PM) *
The role of Thames Valley Police Commissioner, might, in the future gain in importance.

I would urge people to to vote. I would urge people to vote for whomsoever they feel is the best candidate.

I would also remind people that because he was 'conned' over the installation of the new CCTV gear, because under his watch they forgot to order the audio links, because under his watch although the recordings are better the pictures are worse and the zoom facility is now useless, and because under his watch the bad guys on the streets can get away with more, Councillor Stansfield has actually done more through his ineptitude and incompetence to make our streets unsafe than any other individual in W.B.C. in the last three years.

Please take that thought into the polling booth with you.


Indeed.
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Andy Capp
post Oct 22 2012, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (Adrian Hollister @ Oct 22 2012, 09:45 AM) *
Sadly, there is no "I don't want an elected commissioner" vote. If you don't put a vote in then any extreme could get voted in. Think of the demographics that are likely to vote - would you want their views imposed through the police on you?

Who are the 'extreme' candidates?

http://www.policeelections.com/candidates/thames-valley/
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Andy Capp
post Oct 22 2012, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Dodgys smarter brother. @ Oct 21 2012, 05:45 PM) *
The role of Thames Valley Police Commissioner, might, in the future gain in importance.

I would urge people to to vote. I would urge people to vote for whomsoever they feel is the best candidate.

I would also remind people that because he was 'conned' over the installation of the new CCTV gear, because under his watch they forgot to order the audio links, because under his watch although the recordings are better the pictures are worse and the zoom facility is now useless, and because under his watch the bad guys on the streets can get away with more, Councillor Stansfield has actually done more through his ineptitude and incompetence to make our streets unsafe than any other individual in W.B.C. in the last three years.

Please take that thought into the polling booth with you.

Indeed, but hasn't the current police head endorsed the latest CCTV, ****-ups and all?
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Dodgys smarter b...
post Oct 22 2012, 10:55 PM
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That may be more to do with covering their backs than anything else.

I'm sure you'll remember the person (a WPC I think) who gave a speech in Hungerford in which she revealed that if it was dark or raining the cctv pictures were useless.

More recently we had the assault of a woman at the end of Parkway which happened right in front of the camera (in broad daylight) and yet no useful pictures were able to be obtained.

Sadly, the list goes on.
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Weavers Walk
post Oct 22 2012, 11:15 PM
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Just perusing some links up on 'the other forum' they are obviously from the 'Labour' perspective, but this Councillor does seem a little 'economical with the truth' somehow.

I have to say I knew little about him until all this. Will he resign from WBC if he gets this job?

Stansfeld Effect?
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