Kippers for Breakfast Options

[Andy Capp]

Good luck to him, let's hope he can handle basic maths.

Yes like to this idiot: http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick...er-policy-cost/

There is absolutely no way I can vote for a party that has someone as incompetent as this person.

[Cognosco]

Yes like to this idiot: http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick...er-policy-cost/

There is absolutely no way I can vote for a party that has someone as incompetent as this person.

I think politicians are like slugs and snails, just what is the point of them?

[TallDarkAndHands...]

I think politicians are like slugs and snails, just what is the point of them?

To be fair to Diane Abbott she is not just incompetent. She is also a racist. Sent her son to Private school. And likes a few bungs.Allegedly according to wikipedia. Lovely jubbly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott

[Turin Machine]

To be fair to Diane Abbott she is not just incompetent. She is also a racist. Sent her son to Private school. And likes a few bungs.Allegedly according to wikipedia. Lovely jubbly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott

Which, to be fair, probably qualifies her to be PM.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Which, to be fair, probably qualifies her to be PM.

Id vote for labour if I was on benefits and had no intention of ever getting a job. Its a lifestyle choice. Innit. And when the country was bankrupt again. Which it would be after 5 years. We'd all pay.... But if you want a short term max out on the Country credit card. Labours your vote.

[Andy Capp]

Id vote for labour if I was on benefits and had no intention of ever getting a job. Its a lifestyle choice. Innit. And when the country was bankrupt again. Which it would be after 5 years. We'd all pay.... But if you want a short term max out on the Country credit card. Labours your vote.

Last time we hit the skids it wasn't work shy benefit scrounges that caused it, I seem to remember. I also remember the monster raving Tories wanted even more banking deregulation at the time too.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Last time we hit the skids it wasn't work shy benefit scrounges that caused it, I seem to remember. I also remember the monster raving Tories wanted even more banking deregulation at the time too.

Perhaps my memory is failing me? I thought no more boom and bust Gordon Brown was at the helm and Labour had been in power for over 10 years... And he was sensible compared to Corbyn and co. If they got in it I dread to think where we would be in 5 years.

[Simon Kirby]

Perhaps my memory is failing me? I thought no more boom and bust Gordon Brown was at the helm and Labour had been in power for over 10 years... And he was sensible compared to Corbyn and co. If they got in it I dread to think where we would be in 5 years.

Labour will introduce a £10/hour minimum wage and end zero-hours contracts, because it's not fecklessness and apathy that puts tax credit benefits claimants on the bread-line, it's the greed of commerce and industry. Working people deserve dignity, not charity.

[Simon Kirby]

To be fair to Diane Abbott she is not just incompetent. She is also a racist. Sent her son to Private school. And likes a few bungs.Allegedly according to wikipedia. Lovely jubbly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Abbott

What's your point about private education? Labour wants state schools to be so good that there is no advantage, socially or educationally, in sending your child to a fee-paying school, but while they're not I'd expect every parent to be putting the welfare of their children first, and if they can afford a private education for their children then good luck to them. Conservatives on the other hand don't want to be taxed to pay for state education because they only care about themselves and they can afford to privately educate their children, but you don't criticise them for that.

[Turin Machine]

Probably the sheer hypocrisy,
"Abbott's decision in 2003 to send her son to the private City of London School after criticising colleagues for sending their children to selective schools, which she herself described as "indefensible" and "intellectually incoherent", caused controversy and criticism."

No sensible person would argue about wanting the best for their kids, but best not to preach one thing then do another. I think that's the point being made.

[Andy Capp]

Perhaps my memory is failing me? I thought no more boom and bust Gordon Brown was at the helm and Labour had been in power for over 10 years... And he was sensible compared to Corbyn and co. If they got in it I dread to think where we would be in 5 years.

I realise that, but to imply the problem of bankruptcy comes from the unemployed workshy on benefits, or to employ policy that ignores the root cause is somewhat narrow minded in my view.

[Turin Machine]

Labour will introduce a £10/hour minimum wage and end zero-hours contracts, because it's not fecklessness and apathy that puts tax credit benefits claimants on the bread-line, it's the greed of commerce and industry. Working people deserve dignity, not charity.

Problem is, a lot of small businesses (the backbone of British industry) operate on a shoestring, and, with higher business rates hitting some hard, increasing minimum wage will result in some closing down and many more forced to cut staffing levels. The end result being more unemployment. Please stop being silly with all this greed nonsense, a lot of businesses are run by honest working people who, rather than being unemployed again, chose to open a small business to feed their family and by doing so ended up providing jobs for others. Philip Green? **** hole, most business people? Hard workers. Bit more common sense and a bit less political rant would go a long way. ��

Edit,
Zero hours contracts should be abolished, now.

[Andy Capp]

Yes,'the world economy' strikes again. At the end of the day, the higher the wages, the fewer the jobs and mechanisation doesn't help matters.

[Andy Capp]

Labour will introduce a £10/hour minimum wage and end zero-hours contracts, because it's not fecklessness and apathy that puts tax credit benefits claimants on the bread-line, it's the greed of commerce and industry. Working people deserve dignity, not charity.

I don't think we should ignore the roll of the consumer in all this. We don't see many protesting at the low cost of goods in Amazon or Sports Direct.

[Simon Kirby]

I don't think we should ignore the roll of the consumer in all this. We don't see many protesting at the low cost of goods in Amazon or Sports Direct.

I agree, and my natural inclination has always been to let the market set wages as I'm strongly inclined to believe as Adam Smith posits (and paraphrasing here) that market regulation will have unintended consequences, but as you say, an unfettered market has no problem paying workers starvation wages so I now feel that it's necessary to regulate in order to guarantee wages that the lowest paid can live on without the charity of the state.

[On the edge]

it certainly wasn't the work shy who caused the present economic problem. Down to city greed essentially making false claims - the same crime for which the benefit shysters end up in gaol!

Sure, there are some good small employers, that's the rub; we've been sold out. We don't do high end jobs in UK anymore. At least voting Tory you don't have to worry about your kids future; they won't have one.

I must admit, Madam Abbott is a pretty poor advert for Labour, but look at what the
Tories throw up! They gave us John Major, Dave Mellor, Lord Archer. (Cont p94) .fine body of men!

[Simon Kirby]

Problem is, a lot of small businesses (the backbone of British industry) operate on a shoestring, and, with higher business rates hitting some hard, increasing minimum wage will result in some closing down and many more forced to cut staffing levels. The end result being more unemployment. Please stop being silly with all this greed nonsense, a lot of businesses are run by honest working people who, rather than being unemployed again, chose to open a small business to feed their family and by doing so ended up providing jobs for others. Philip Green? **** hole, most business people? Hard workers. Bit more common sense and a bit less political rant would go a long way.

Sorry, but I don't agree with your economics (and I was in business for myself once so I do have some sympathy for your point of view). If your labour costs increase then you pass on those costs to your consumers. If your consumers want your goods and services then they'll pay the new price - they'll have to, because all things being equal every other producer/supplier will have to increase their prices likewise. Of course jobs come and go; look at steel, coal, and docks for example, all now dead industries for one reason or another, but you'd be the first to pillory me if I were to suggest that an industry in decline should be propped up artificially.

The problem with a statutory living wage, or any other ethical regulation for that matter, is when there is no corresponding regulation of imports - mandating a £10/hour living wage so that British workers don't have to live in penury is right enough, but if we don't impose a duty on foreign-made sweat-shop imports then we're simply out-sourcing our labour exploitation and killing our domestic industry.

[Turin Machine]

And there's the problem, if you're offering a service, you get to a point where either a, people say, hah, I can do without or b, get it from someone else who may be unregulated, unlicenced or using black market labour. Or if it's a product based business they get it from either somewhere else because it's cheaper (materials, rates, rents etc) or as you say, they buy tat from China. None of which helps the people you put out of work because you couldn't keep going.

I know how it works, I used to chase after business only to have my boss turn down the opportunity because "we need to make 35% or its not worth it". "this only pays 25%". Next thing you know the deals been done by someone who COULD survive on 25% of a m£10 account. After I left the company went bust through lack of turnover. Everyone out on the street.

[On the edge]

And there's the problem, if you're offering a service, you get to a point where either a, people say, hah, I can do without or b, get it from someone else who may be unregulated, unlicenced or using black market labour. Or if it's a product based business they get it from either somewhere else because it's cheaper (materials, rates, rents etc) or as you say, they buy tat from China. None of which helps the people you put out of work because you couldn't keep going.

I know how it works, I used to chase after business only to have my boss turn down the opportunity because "we need to make 35% or its not worth it". "this only pays 25%". Next thing you know the deals been done by someone who COULD survive on 25% of a m£10 account. After I left the company went bust through lack of turnover. Everyone out on the street.

Well, there you go. You've hit the dilemma of capitalism, it is win/loose, weakest to the wall please.

[Simon Kirby]

And there's the problem, if you're offering a service, you get to a point where either a, people say, hah, I can do without or b, get it from someone else who may be unregulated, unlicenced or using black market labour. Or if it's a product based business they get it from either somewhere else because it's cheaper (materials, rates, rents etc) or as you say, they buy tat from China. None of which helps the people you put out of work because you couldn't keep going.

I know how it works, I used to chase after business only to have my boss turn down the opportunity because "we need to make 35% or its not worth it". "this only pays 25%". Next thing you know the deals been done by someone who COULD survive on 25% of a m£10 account. After I left the company went bust through lack of turnover. Everyone out on the street.

For sure, there will always be unscrupulous employers who try to avoid regulation, but that's not an argument not to regulate, just to regulate effectively. The unregulated foreign imports is however an issue, but that's the problem to solve and now that we're unfettered by the EU it's not an impossible thing to impose such tariffs on imports that don't meet our domestic standards, though it would certainly be handy to have some kind of international certification scheme for employee rights and remuneration in the manner of the rainforest alliance for example.

But remember this is about a £10/hour minimum wage, so the impact on producers/suppliers is only the impact that the marginal cost of raising the wages of the staff below that threshold has on the product/service cost, and that's typically going to be quite a small impact. Some market sectors such as agriculture employ a lot of staff on less than £10/hour, but say seasonal pickers have to be paid an extra £3/hour, that's not going to add 11% to the price of the crop as labour is not going to be the only production costs, and by the time the crop is sold in a shop the increase in the harvesting cost is a tiny fraction of the shop price, although the shop also has to add the cost of paying its shelf-stackers the living wage too, but even so the impact of the living wage is likely to be a fraction of a percent, and that's for a product that depends heavily on minimum-wage staff. Take something like buying a new a car when there's almost no one involved in the sale and manufacture supply chain who's on minimum wage and the £10/hour living wage has no impact at all.