What do the LibDems actjually stand for?, Is it simply power at any cost? Options

[Spider]

Really?? The Lib Dem vote collapsed in every polling district in the Thames Valley last week, and pretty much nationally. They even had to ask for two recounts in the hope they would save their deposit in the Corby by-election, and then begged the returning officer to let them have it back anyway!! Doesnn't sound like a "powerful" position to me!!!

Of course it doesn't. We are half way through a Parliament. No party does well at this time. The people like to give a shot across the bows. It is all part and parcel of Politics. But come the next election we will be back where we belong.

[Spider]

“I pledge to vote against any increase in fees in the next parliament and to pressure the government to introduce a fairer alternative.” - signed by EVERY Lib Dem candidate.

27 Lib-Dems, including Clegg and Cable broke that pledge and 8 abstained. (Thus not voting against).

Remember?

Of course and Clegg apologised for that. We didn't expect to win so making groundless promises didn't mean anything. But now we are in power we will have to rethink very carefully what we say.

[Spider]

As they never say anything that makes much sense correct answer is never!

What the Lib-Dems have played politics. Don't forget we've never been in power and didn't expect to win. Now things are different. We are a party of coalition. I can't see any party in future forming a government without coming and begging to us.

[Penelope]

Of course and Clegg apologised for that. We didn't expect to win so making groundless promises didn't mean anything. But now we are in power we will have to rethink very carefully what we say.

Sooo, you applaud the concept of making false promises to the electorate and then renaging on them?

[Spider]

If the Lib Dems want a European super state, god help us.

This is from Wilkipedia.

"The EU traces its origins from the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), formed by the Inner Six countries in 1951 and 1958 respectively. In the intervening years the community and its successors have grown in size by the accession of new member states and in power by the addition of policy areas to its remit. The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union under its current name in 1993.[16] The latest amendment to the constitutional basis of the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon, came into force in 2009."

We joined late. In the 70s Heath took us in and under Wilson we voted to stay in a Common market. Since then the constitution or rules has changed. We've moved closer to a European Superstate. So why do you say "God help us"? We been moving to that under your noses. The German chancellor is talking about a political union. What do you think the European countries have been working to? Get real. That is the road we are traveling on. And who do you think took us there? Not the Lib-Dems but the Tories and the Labour party.

[Spider]

When have they told the truth??

So you can't answer? A typical Labour member. You should have joined us when you were asked. Then your light would have shined. Labour has no chance of making any political gains in Newbury.

[Spider]

Lloyd George must be spinning in his grave.

Lloyd George was a Liberal who headed the break up of his party. He then led the Tories in a national government. Anyway we are a Lib-Dem party, not exactly the same as the Liberal party under Lloyd George.

[GMR]

This is from Wilkipedia.

"The EU traces its origins from the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) and the European Economic Community (EEC), formed by the Inner Six countries in 1951 and 1958 respectively. In the intervening years the community and its successors have grown in size by the accession of new member states and in power by the addition of policy areas to its remit. The Maastricht Treaty established the European Union under its current name in 1993.[16] The latest amendment to the constitutional basis of the EU, the Treaty of Lisbon, came into force in 2009."

We joined late. In the 70s Heath took us in and under Wilson we voted to stay in a Common market. Since then the constitution or rules has changed. We've moved closer to a European Superstate. So why do you say "God help us"? We been moving to that under your noses. The German chancellor is talking about a political union. What do you think the European countries have been working to? Get real. That is the road we are traveling on. And who do you think took us there? Not the Lib-Dems but the Tories and the Labour party.

I will say one thing about you Spider, you are honest. Not many pro-European will admit to a Super-Euro state. I hear echoes of Hitler in your diatribe. What you've been saying the British having been fearing.

[Spider]

I will say one thing about you Spider, you are honest. Not many pro-European will admit to a Super-Euro state. I hear echoes of Hitler in your diatribe. What you've been saying the British having been fearing.

Why have they been fearing? It has often been talked out loud. The trouble is people don’t listen. You talk about Hitler, but you can also mention Napoleon, Stalin and others. They tried to form a United Europe by force. Europe will achieve the same goals through diplomacy, not war. Britain may resist but eventually they will fall into line and take the single currency and be part of a powerful structure that will have no equal. After that anything is possible.

[Penelope]

So you can't answer? A typical Labour member. You should have joined us when you were asked. Then your light would have shined. Labour has no chance of making any political gains in Newbury.

Oh, purlease, what colour is the sky in your world?

[Richard Garvie]

Of course it doesn't. We are half way through a Parliament. No party does well at this time. The people like to give a shot across the bows. It is all part and parcel of Politics. But come the next election we will be back where we belong.

I just can't see it I'm afraid.

[Spider]

Oh, purlease, what colour is the sky in your world?

The same as it is in Europe. And we must make sure it stays that way. And the only way to achieving that is being closely and fully integrated.

[Richard Garvie]

Of course and Clegg apologised for that. We didn't expect to win so making groundless promises didn't mean anything. But now we are in power we will have to rethink very carefully what we say.

But that's even worse. Let me just clarify this, you are saying the Lib Dems intentionally lied because they knew that they wouldn't win??

[Spider]

I just can't see it I'm afraid.

Of course you can't. But if you know anything about people you will know how fickle they are. I am telling you that when the next election comes along one of the main parties will be begging us to join them.

[Penelope]

The same as it is in Europe. And we must make sure it stays that way. And the only way to achieving that is being closely and fully integrated.

Which is why you will suffer terribly in the next G E.

[GMR]

Which is why you will suffer terribly in the next G E.

Even if they suffer terribly they might have enough MPs to help one of the parties to form a coalition. That is why people must make sure they vote wisely. Any party that supports closer European ties but be ignored.

[Spider]

Even if they suffer terribly they might have enough MPs to help one of the parties to form a coalition. That is why people must make sure they vote wisely. Any party that supports closer European ties but be ignored.

I think you are being fickle if you think that will happen. The Tories and Labour won't pull out of Europe and that only leaves UKIP and what idiot is going to waste their vote on them?

[Andy Capp]

Why have they been fearing? It has often been talked out loud. The trouble is people don’t listen. You talk about Hitler, but you can also mention Napoleon, Stalin and others. They tried to form a United Europe by force. Europe will achieve the same goals through diplomacy, not war. Britain may resist but eventually they will fall into line and take the single currency and be part of a powerful structure that will have no equal. After that anything is possible.

I can agree to most of what you say except for the highlighted text. I don't see that at all. I don't see Britain's joining the Euro as the only thing stopping Europe becoming unequalled.

[Richard Garvie]

So you can't answer? A typical Labour member. You should have joined us when you were asked. Then your light would have shined. Labour has no chance of making any political gains in Newbury.

Tuition fees. EMA. The NHS reforms. Wealth tax. McNulty report. Need I go on??

As for joining the Lib Dems, it would have made it easier for me to get elected with the resources your party has. Sometimes principles come first, and no matter what was discussed, I would never have been able to justify joining a party that sold out on almost everything they believed in for the perks of Government. Also, no matter what resources you have locally, you have very little vision, no positivity and no future. Whether I ever get elected or not, I can sleep at night knowing I made the right decision.

[GMR]

I think you are being fickle if you think that will happen. The Tories and Labour won't pull out of Europe and that only leaves UKIP and what idiot is going to waste their vote on them?

Labour started from nothing. UKIP are growing and finished third in the European elections. In the Corby by-election they also finished third (in front of the Lib-Dems). Don't underestimate them. If the Tories and Labour, as you say, won't listen to the people then UKIP could be that party the people turn to.