IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

> Apologise? Apologise for what exactly?
On the edge
post Aug 8 2018, 07:02 AM
Post #1


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



Why on earth should Boris Johnson apologise for what he said about the burka?

It covers the wearers face and so is displaying an arrogant rudeness to anyone the wearer needs to communicate with. There is no religious requirement at all to cover the face and in some cases, it's actually symbolic of repression. On top of this, at this time of heightened national security, it is difficult to identify wearers and, just like the full face hoodie, ought to be restricted.

Some seeking to integrate into our community, with cultures and practices very different to those here in the UK might find this disturbing. However, integration is a two way street and arguably, this is one of the existing communities 'lines in the sand'.

Stifling debate as the PM clearly seeks to do is foolhardy and likely to create even more discontent and tension in both communities than there is already.

For me, this continual denial of real debate on crucial matters of difference is far more damaging to democracy than 'fake' news.


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
Turin Machine
post Aug 9 2018, 05:44 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 2,682
Joined: 23-September 10
From: In the lower 40
Member No.: 1,104



Allegedly; The reason women must cover themselves is so they do not seduce a man.

So then; If a man catches a glimpse of her ankle, and he becomes seduced, then he isn't responsible for his actions. He might rape her, accidentally of course, and it'd all be her fault. Traitorous, adulterous witch. She should've covered herself up! That poor guy! She seduced him. She must be punished.

You can see where I'm going with this, right?

The burka is not a religeous garment. It is a gender enslavement tool, and 100% away from what our country has been fighting to overcome for the last 100 years.

But here's the rub: We agreed that a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she likes, right? So if she wants to cover herself from head to toe, we have to let her!

Now why would she want to do that?

Well, since a woman isn't trying to seduce anybody while out buying her dhania, atta and haldi then she won't mind covering herself, particularly as she's already married. After all, who needs to see her anyway? Only her husband has any interest in being attracted to her, so it should be 'no skin of anyone's nose', right? Why do you even want to look at this man's wife anyway. She's private property.

So ... this leaves us with a dillema:

Either we must enforce our belief that a woman should be allowed to express herself any way she chooses. This will mean accepting the burka as a fashion garment, and a legitimate choice of self-expression. This means we'll have to ignore the surrepticious gender/social constrictions to the women involved.

Or we must accept we were wrong, and that some clothing really isn't suitable or acceptable. Bikinis, miniskirts and hot-pants might well fall into this category. Which means we might have been wrong all along! Maybe these burka people have a point? Then we're forced to adopt it.

There are no winners in this. Somehow the logic betrays us. And now we see why religeous fanaticism has such a firm grip in the 21st century. The control methods run so deep they're practically invisible.

So if anyone can unpick that little thorn-in-the-side-of-equality, because I can't see a route out. I think the burka is here to stay, because our liberal society prevents us from enforcing liberation. Thus, these women will remain victims to a regime which is beyond criticism, and the controlling behaviour this silly garment permits will remain unspoken.


--------------------
Gammon. And proud!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
On the edge
post Aug 9 2018, 06:50 PM
Post #3


Advanced Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 7,847
Joined: 23-May 09
From: Newbury
Member No.: 98



QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 9 2018, 06:44 PM) *
Allegedly; The reason women must cover themselves is so they do not seduce a man.

So then; If a man catches a glimpse of her ankle, and he becomes seduced, then he isn't responsible for his actions. He might rape her, accidentally of course, and it'd all be her fault. Traitorous, adulterous witch. She should've covered herself up! That poor guy! She seduced him. She must be punished.

You can see where I'm going with this, right?

The burka is not a religeous garment. It is a gender enslavement tool, and 100% away from what our country has been fighting to overcome for the last 100 years.

But here's the rub: We agreed that a woman should be allowed to wear whatever she likes, right? So if she wants to cover herself from head to toe, we have to let her!

Now why would she want to do that?

Well, since a woman isn't trying to seduce anybody while out buying her dhania, atta and haldi then she won't mind covering herself, particularly as she's already married. After all, who needs to see her anyway? Only her husband has any interest in being attracted to her, so it should be 'no skin of anyone's nose', right? Why do you even want to look at this man's wife anyway. She's private property.

So ... this leaves us with a dillema:

Either we must enforce our belief that a woman should be allowed to express herself any way she chooses. This will mean accepting the burka as a fashion garment, and a legitimate choice of self-expression. This means we'll have to ignore the surrepticious gender/social constrictions to the women involved.

Or we must accept we were wrong, and that some clothing really isn't suitable or acceptable. Bikinis, miniskirts and hot-pants might well fall into this category. Which means we might have been wrong all along! Maybe these burka people have a point? Then we're forced to adopt it.

There are no winners in this. Somehow the logic betrays us. And now we see why religeous fanaticism has such a firm grip in the 21st century. The control methods run so deep they're practically invisible.

So if anyone can unpick that little thorn-in-the-side-of-equality, because I can't see a route out. I think the burka is here to stay, because our liberal society prevents us from enforcing liberation. Thus, these women will remain victims to a regime which is beyond criticism, and the controlling behaviour this silly garment permits will remain unspoken.


Dint think anyone much would object to the dress other than the face cover. Eliminate that as other EU nation states have and that solves the problem. I can't remember this fuss being made when the same disquiet was voiced about full face hoodies?


--------------------
Know your place!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- On the edge   Apologise? Apologise for what exactly?   Aug 8 2018, 07:02 AM
- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 08:02 AM...   Aug 8 2018, 07:28 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 08:28 AM) He ...   Aug 8 2018, 07:54 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 08:54 AM...   Aug 8 2018, 09:30 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 10:30 AM) Oh ...   Aug 8 2018, 10:27 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 11:27 AM...   Aug 8 2018, 11:51 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 12:51 PM) Rid...   Aug 8 2018, 01:02 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 02:02 PM...   Aug 8 2018, 03:31 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 04:31 PM) And...   Aug 8 2018, 04:26 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 04:31 PM) And...   Aug 8 2018, 04:27 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 05:27 PM...   Aug 8 2018, 04:56 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 05:56 PM) The...   Aug 8 2018, 05:49 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 06:49 PM...   Aug 8 2018, 06:17 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 07:17 PM) He ...   Aug 8 2018, 06:57 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 8 2018, 07:17 PM) He ...   Aug 8 2018, 08:26 PM
- - SirWilliam   I see the baying hordes are calling for his blood ...   Aug 8 2018, 07:34 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 8 2018, 08:34 AM)...   Aug 8 2018, 08:01 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 8 2018, 09:01 AM...   Aug 8 2018, 12:10 PM
- - spartacus   The luvvies in the BBC may be baying for his blood...   Aug 8 2018, 10:46 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (spartacus @ Aug 8 2018, 11:46 PM) ...   Aug 8 2018, 11:15 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (spartacus @ Aug 8 2018, 11:46 PM) ...   Aug 9 2018, 05:01 AM
- - spartacus   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 8 2018, 09...   Aug 8 2018, 11:14 PM
- - spartacus   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 9 2018, 12:15 AM) Gets...   Aug 8 2018, 11:44 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (spartacus @ Aug 9 2018, 12:44 AM) ...   Aug 9 2018, 05:02 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 9 2018, 06...   Aug 9 2018, 07:22 AM
- - x2lls   If you can call Catholic nuns "penguins...   Aug 9 2018, 09:38 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 9 2018, 10:38 AM) If y...   Aug 9 2018, 01:16 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 9 2018, 10:38 AM) If y...   Aug 9 2018, 03:56 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 9 2018, 04:56 PM) Whe...   Aug 9 2018, 04:01 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 9 2018, 05:01 PM) The ...   Aug 9 2018, 04:39 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 9 2018, 05:39 PM) Wel...   Aug 9 2018, 06:48 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 9 2018, 05:39 PM) Wel...   Aug 9 2018, 08:55 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 9 2018, 09...   Aug 10 2018, 12:37 AM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 10 2018, 01:37 AM) Sh...   Aug 10 2018, 06:43 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 10 2018, 07:43 A...   Aug 10 2018, 11:31 AM
- - Strafin   In my opinion the problem with Boris is that he is...   Aug 9 2018, 12:21 PM
|- - On the edge   QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 9 2018, 01:21 PM) In...   Aug 9 2018, 12:46 PM
||- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 9 2018, 01:46 PM...   Aug 9 2018, 03:58 PM
||- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 9 2018, 04:58 PM) How...   Aug 9 2018, 06:44 PM
||- - newres   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 9 2018, 07:44 PM...   Aug 9 2018, 08:18 PM
||- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 9 2018, 09:18 PM) Wha...   Aug 9 2018, 09:02 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 9 2018, 01:21 PM) In...   Aug 9 2018, 02:31 PM
- - Strafin   I don't think it is messenger shooting. I thin...   Aug 9 2018, 03:43 PM
- - Turin Machine   Things to note; It's not a religious issue in...   Aug 9 2018, 05:37 PM
- - x2lls   He makes a lot of valid points, again. https://ww...   Aug 9 2018, 10:49 PM
- - Biker1   I have to remove my crash helmet when I get fuel a...   Aug 10 2018, 02:57 AM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (Biker1 @ Aug 10 2018, 03:57 AM) I ...   Aug 10 2018, 06:13 AM
- - Strafin   Thing is though, if you ban face coverings you wil...   Aug 10 2018, 08:35 AM
|- - newres   QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 10 2018, 09:35 AM) T...   Aug 10 2018, 11:32 AM
||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 10 2018, 12:32 PM) An...   Aug 10 2018, 06:59 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 10 2018, 07...   Aug 11 2018, 06:16 AM
|||- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 07:16 AM) Ba...   Aug 12 2018, 11:11 PM
||- - Strafin   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 10 2018, 12:32 PM) An...   Aug 13 2018, 08:59 AM
|- - Turin Machine   QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 10 2018, 09:35 AM) T...   Aug 10 2018, 10:56 PM
|- - newres   QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2018, 11:56...   Aug 11 2018, 06:14 AM
||- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 07:14 AM) Mu...   Aug 11 2018, 09:11 PM
||- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 07:14 AM) Mu...   Aug 12 2018, 11:09 PM
||- - Strafin   QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Aug 13 2018, 12...   Aug 13 2018, 09:03 AM
|- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2018, 11:56...   Aug 11 2018, 10:50 AM
||- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2018, 11:50 AM...   Aug 11 2018, 06:20 PM
|||- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 07:20 PM) Ho...   Aug 11 2018, 07:19 PM
||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2018, 08:19 PM...   Aug 11 2018, 07:33 PM
|||||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 11 2018, 08...   Aug 11 2018, 07:35 PM
||||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 08:35 PM) Ma...   Aug 11 2018, 07:42 PM
||||||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   One more thing.... People like newres saw to the e...   Aug 11 2018, 07:54 PM
|||||- - Biker1   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 11 2018, 08...   Aug 14 2018, 08:15 AM
||||- - newres   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2018, 08:19 PM...   Aug 11 2018, 07:33 PM
|||- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 11 2018, 07:20 PM) Ho...   Aug 11 2018, 09:01 PM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 11 2018, 10:01 PM) Whe...   Aug 12 2018, 05:26 AM
|||- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 12 2018, 06:26 AM) Wh...   Aug 12 2018, 07:08 AM
|||- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 12 2018, 08:08 A...   Aug 12 2018, 08:20 AM
|||- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 12 2018, 09...   Aug 13 2018, 09:15 AM
|||- - On the edge   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 13 2018, 10:15 AM) Th...   Aug 13 2018, 12:43 PM
|||- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 13 2018, 10:15 AM) Th...   Aug 13 2018, 07:19 PM
|||- - Strafin   QUOTE (je suis Charlie @ Aug 13 2018, 08...   Aug 14 2018, 07:23 AM
|||- - x2lls   QUOTE (Strafin @ Aug 14 2018, 08:23 AM) W...   Aug 14 2018, 06:36 PM
|||- - Strafin   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 14 2018, 07:36 PM) las...   Aug 15 2018, 09:09 AM
||- - x2lls   QUOTE (SirWilliam @ Aug 11 2018, 11:50 AM...   Aug 11 2018, 08:55 PM
|- - x2lls   QUOTE (Turin Machine @ Aug 10 2018, 11:56...   Aug 11 2018, 09:04 PM
- - On the edge   The operative word is 'choose', some Musli...   Aug 11 2018, 07:57 PM
|- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (On the edge @ Aug 11 2018, 08:57 P...   Aug 11 2018, 08:06 PM
- - x2lls   Hey Newres, check out the comments. You will see t...   Aug 11 2018, 09:42 PM
- - SirWilliam   This debate seems to concentrate round the freedom...   Aug 12 2018, 08:36 AM
- - x2lls   ^^^^^ Previous two posts, very well said indeed.   Aug 12 2018, 11:51 AM
- - x2lls   haha! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Yy3VY...   Aug 12 2018, 08:16 PM
- - x2lls   From within. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/...   Aug 13 2018, 06:05 PM
- - je suis Charlie   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 13 2018, 07:05 PM) Fro...   Aug 13 2018, 07:18 PM
- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 13 2018, 07:05 PM) Fro...   Aug 13 2018, 07:22 PM
- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 13 2018, 07:05 PM) Fro...   Aug 14 2018, 10:14 AM
- - SirWilliam   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 14 2018, 11:14 AM) I ...   Aug 14 2018, 02:12 PM
- - x2lls   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 14 2018, 11:14 AM) I ...   Aug 14 2018, 06:39 PM
- - newres   QUOTE (x2lls @ Aug 14 2018, 07:39 PM) Nic...   Aug 14 2018, 07:03 PM
- - TallDarkAndHandsome   QUOTE (newres @ Aug 14 2018, 08:03 PM) It...   Aug 15 2018, 05:31 AM
- - newres   QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Aug 15 2018, 06...   Aug 15 2018, 06:13 AM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th April 2024 - 07:08 AM