Lead theft at The Swan at East Ilsley Options

[Guest_Bill1_*]

I am sad to read about this incident, as reported on Newbury Today this morning.

However, how the Council can be blamed for this by insisting building regulations are adhered to I'll never know.

[Bloggo]

I am sad to read about this incident, as reported on Newbury Today this morning.

However, how the Council can be blamed for this by insisting building regulations are adhered to I'll never know.

Yes Bill, you are right. It's not the Council's fault, it's the justice system for not having tough enough sentences to make these sorts of crimes prohibitive.

[dannyboy]

Yes Bill, you are right. It's not the Council's fault, it's the justice system for not having tough enough sentences to make these sorts of crimes prohibitive.

It is nothing to do with the justice system.

The problem lies with scrap metal merchants who turn a blind eye when a transit van full of stripped lead arrives in their yard.

lumps of lead are not the kind of thing one off loads down the pub are they?

[Iommi]

I am sad to read about this incident, as reported on Newbury Today this morning. However, how the Council can be blamed for this by insisting building regulations are adhered to I'll never know.

Is it a Building Control matter? The only other thing I got to say is, I wish BC were as vigilant when I reported a Document E breach of regulations on a block of flats, under the control of a major local housing association, some time back.

[Bloggo]

It is nothing to do with the justice system.

The problem lies with scrap metal merchants who turn a blind eye when a transit van full of stripped lead arrives in their yard.

lumps of lead are not the kind of thing one off loads down the pub are they?

It has everything to do with the justice system because if the penalty for receiving stolen goods, Lead in this case, was much tougher then they would not do it.

[Smudgie]

It has everything to do with the justice system because if the penalty for receiving stolen goods, Lead in this case, was much tougher then they would not do it.

Unlikely. Petty offenders aren't usually very hot on consequential thinking. They tend to work on the assumption that they won't get caught, rather than weighing up what might happen if they are.

[On the edge]

Unlikely. Petty offenders aren't usually very hot on consequential thinking. They tend to work on the assumption that they won't get caught, rather than weighing up what might happen if they are.

In that case, there is hardly any point in us having laws about anything.

[gardeb]

I am sad to read about this incident, as reported on Newbury Today this morning.

However, how the Council can be blamed for this by insisting building regulations are adhered to I'll never know.

Hello all.

The landlord had asked to replace an existing felt roof with like for like but the planners (presumably in line with their flawed environmental scheme) insisted on the lead which will now have to be replaced at great expense.

[blackdog]

Hello all.

The landlord had asked to replace an existing felt roof with like for like but the planners (presumably in line with their flawed environmental scheme) insisted on the lead which will now have to be replaced at great expense.

Sounds more like a requirement raised by a Conservation Officer than a Building Regs Inspector - the Swan is listed grade II.

[Iommi]

Sounds more like a requirement raised by a Conservation Officer than a Building Regs Inspector - the Swan is listed grade II.

Which is what I queried at the beginning of the thread. It didn't seem to be a Building Control issue.

[Bloggo]

Unlikely. Petty offenders aren't usually very hot on consequential thinking. They tend to work on the assumption that they won't get caught, rather than weighing up what might happen if they are.

Then the penalty needs to be raised in order to ensure that they do understand the consequenses of their actions.

[Iommi]

Then the penalty needs to be raised in order to ensure that they do understand the consequenses of their actions.

Improving the chances of getting caught is a more powerful deterrent. Penalties don't seem to work that well on their own.

[Bloggo]

Improving the chances of getting caught is a more powerful deterrent. Penalties don't seem to work that well on their own.

I'm sorry to be so repetitive but these crimes are perpetuated, and will continue to be so, because the penalties are not harsh enough.
The justice system is a joke and until society faces up to the fact that victims of crime also have human rights and should be protected from those that would harm them then the situation will get worse. Monkey see, Monkey do eh!!!

[Iommi]

There surely cannot be a more powerful deterrent than the capitol punishment, yet people still commit murder. I suspect that this is because they think they can get away with it. Harsher sentences will help to keep people off the street for longer, which would be a benefit, but is not likely to stop them committing the crime in the first place. All that being said, scrap metal business might benefit from some sort of legislation.

[Bloggo]

There surely cannot be a more powerful deterrent than the capitol punishment, yet people still commit murder. I suspect that this is because they think they can get away with it. Harsher sentences will help to keep people off the street for longer, which would be a benefit, but is not likely to stop them committing the crime in the first place. All that being said, scrap metal business might benefit from some sort of legislation.

Well, I guess we all have a view on this and I understand yours.
And you are corrrect in that if there were not the people ready to receive stolen goods then the criminal element would be less inclined to steal them.
I read over the weekend that BT had £1000's of Copper wire stolen from underground instalations resulting in the telephone system going down.

[user23]

Sounds more like a requirement raised by a Conservation Officer than a Building Regs Inspector - the Swan is listed grade II.

I reckon you're right. I don't imagine there's any standard building regulation that says roofs must be made of lead.

As far as tougher sentencing goes at one point we had the death penalty for stealing, this didn't reduce the crime rate to zero though. Exactly how tough do these people calling for stricter controls want the law to be?

[dannyboy]

And you are corrrect in that if there were not the people ready to receive stolen goods then the criminal element would be less inclined to steal them.

exactly what I said earlier - if scrap metal merchants were not so blase about the origin of the scrap they are buying, lead, copper, aluminium thefts would be far less common.

[Bloggo]

As far as tougher sentencing goes at one point we had the death penalty for stealing, this didn't reduce the crime rate to zero though. Exactly how tough do these people calling for stricter controls want the law to be?

This is difficult to say without knowing all of the penalties that can be metered out for all of the crimes.
Maybe if the Judges used the full powers of the existing penalties to their fullest extent then maybe that would work.
What grieves me is the ridiculously light sentences that some criminals get for crimes like wounding, GBH, arson, rape, house breaking etc.

[Guest_Bill1_*]

This has gone way off topic, although I agree and have said before we are far to lenient with offenders these days.

My point was how can this particular crime be the fault of West Berks Council, as claimed by the unfortunate victims?

[Iommi]

My point was how can this particular crime be the fault of West Berks Council, as claimed by the unfortunate victims?

I understand that the owners wanted to replace the existing felt with similar. Despite the owners protestations, the council insisted on them using lead, which subsequently got nicked. The council are not at fault for the lead being nicked, but the owners wished the council would have allowed the use of the material that was already there, and wouldn't have got nicked.