QUOTE (newres @ Dec 25 2014, 04:41 PM)
That's the problem. Most of UKIP's supporters only read the trashy papers and Facebook.
I don't really see the relevance of your arguments regarding expenses and audits. Firstly, our own system is full of holes, especially where expenses are concerned.
Secondly, regardless of audits and within reason EU financial concerns, my belief in the usefulness of the EU is more about a moral balance, integration and peace across Europe. I don't trust our government. Annoyingly and shockingly to me, a Labour government proved to be less trustworthy than any other in my living memory.
Thirdly, I have yet to hear a convincing financial case for leaving the EU. Most experts that aren't party political seem to think that our economy would suffer if we exited. Certainly none say we would be better off.
It seems to me that in the majority of cases, those that want to leave only want to because of issues like immigration - and incidentally that has been used here by UKIP supporters.
I don't trust government either, that's exactly why good audits and financial housekeeping is essential. Ours may be slow, but it's there and if works. After all. we did something about expenses - hard and nasty though that period was. The EU on the other hand us in total denial and has been for many years.
Ironically, and for some reason I have come across a good few, most active UMIP supporters I know have a catholic taste in news sources; unlike many taking more than one, more often than not non 'hard copy' media.
Yes, there are certain multi nationals who make a convincing case to stay. However, for everyone of those, I'll match you two in the financial and banking sector (yes, horrid bankers) who say go. Your outlook will depend very much on your personal impact of course.
For me, I am becoming more and more convinced that medium to long term we woukd survive and survive well; probably far better than being shackled to a more and more crippled European economy which will inevitably include Turkey and the other Applicant States. However, in the short term, it would hurt and our standard of living would actually decrease.
Immigration is an issue for all parties, let's face it, even in Newbury there is a sizeable number of people who are against 'incomers', even from close by, because they want to inhibit any development. That's just human nature.
I'd certainly agree with you about the Labour Party, which seems to have sold its sole and found nothing to take its place. Why for instance abolish Clause 4? Nonetheless, if you think the institution of Europe will be a protective bastion then it's clear it will afford as much protection to basic rights as NTC.
It is very sad that Labour, who were once the second party round here, seem to have disappeared. As avowed internationalists, why aren't they making the case? Or can we conclude, by their silence and that of the LibDems, the other avowed pro party, that there isn't actually a substantive pro case to made.