Are Wind Turbines a crime against nature? Options

[Adrian Hollister]

Following yet another set of plans for a Wind Turbine next to the M4 at Lambourn, is this something that we must accept as part of our future or discard the idea as a “crime against nature.” (Anthony Stansfeld - Con, Kintbury)?

[On the edge]

We haven't got a lot of choice! In energy terms I'd much rather see a windmill than a slag heap or an oil slick. Lot easier and quicker to dismantle windmills as well. For the 'real crimes against nature' need to venture beyond our own back yards.

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

I really like them, I think they're quite pretty...certainly better than looking at other houses, buildings, people...

[Darren]

They said the same about watermill, windmills and steam engines.

[Nothing Much]

Reading of a new fossil humanoid, 2million years old.
When did they work out that round wheels were better than square ones?

I jest. We luddites must move on. A few turbines seems OK. but on a recent visit to Cornwall,
the landscape was more blighted with windmills than bungalows, or caravan parks.
Cervantes.

[Berkshirelad]

The issue is that wind turbines are not efficient, nor do they generate at a constant output.

Every Mw generated by windmills requires a fossil fuel back-up for when the wind doesn't blow sufficiently; and the back-up has to be kept running - it can't just be switched on/off in an instant.

Tidal power (where, until the moon falls out of the sky we will always have tides) is a far better alternative IMO.

[NWNREADER]

Under current policies we must accept them because the green lobby (and the industry behind solar/wind energy) has control - the presumption is the turbines must be allowed.

In a way they are no different to electricity pylons, and thers has been massive emotional debate about how they blight the scenery.

As regards the turbines the case for their construction en masse is flawed. They are good for localised support, but the generated network still has to be able to supply 100% of demand, on demand.

[On the edge]

The issue is that wind turbines are not efficient, nor do they generate at a constant output.

Every Mw generated by windmills requires a fossil fuel back-up for when the wind doesn't blow sufficiently; and the back-up has to be kept running - it can't just be switched on/off in an instant.

Tidal power (where, until the moon falls out of the sky we will always have tides) is a far better alternative IMO.

Today we see electricity as something that has to be produced 'on demand' so to speak. Much of the renewable stuff can only be generated when there is sufficient light / wind / tide - which as you rightly suggest doesn't always coincide.

However, and this is where developing technology might start to help, there are other ways to 'store' electricity. Such as in the form of heat, compressed air, stored water etc. There are also large scale trials with batteries. Nothing really new in any of this but its likely to be part of the solution - and one which removes the make when you use demand of today.

Ironically, this might, in a world of locally generated and stored energy, just might mean that the 'big pylons' are no longer needed.

Think energy rather than electricity and our kids might have a future.

[Vodabury]

The issue is that wind turbines are not efficient, nor do they generate at a constant output.

Every Mw generated by windmills requires a fossil fuel back-up for when the wind doesn't blow sufficiently; and the back-up has to be kept running - it can't just be switched on/off in an instant.

Tidal power (where, until the moon falls out of the sky we will always have tides) is a far better alternative IMO.

Well said.

If a few wind turbines could replace a power station then I would all be in favour of them. But they require fossil or nuclear fuel back up. If the wind does not blow, or blows too hard, then wind turbines do not work.

There is hogwash re statitics as to their input to the grid. We are told of installed capacity but this is very different to their actual output.

Why not try and save a bit of energy and turn off a few lights? I live in a quiet cul-de-sac so why does my street need to be lit up like a Christmas tree at 3am?

Rgds

[Andy Capp]

Reducing need would be, albeit a futile suggestion, a part of the solution. These days we have so much electronic equipment: three or four tellies, a couple of games consoles, a couple of computers, a dish washer, tumble dryer, fridge/freezer, a washing machine, a microwave, an oven, and a few sound systems per house. Contrast that with 30 years ago where it might be: one or two tellies a Hi Fi, a fridge (and maybe a freezer), a radio, an oven and a washing machine.

[spartacus]

.....three or four tellies, a couple of games consoles, a couple of computers, a dish washer, tumble dryer, fridge/freezer, a washing machine, a microwave, an oven, and a few sound systems per house.

Is this The Generation Game? ....all that's missing from that list is a set of wine glasses and a cuddly toy...

Why not try and save a bit of energy and turn off a few lights? I live in a quiet cul-de-sac so why does my street need to be lit up like a Christmas tree at 3am?

Do you remember the hoo-ha when news came out that WBC were going to trial turning street lights off between midnight and 5am? Panic set in... NWN was full of letters from worried residents suggesting that Newbury would suddenly be swept with a tide of lawlessness..... Suddenly everyone was going to be burgled, raped and murdered because some street lights were going to go out (forgetting that most rural villages have survived for centuries without lighting)

Still... no need to turn the lights off or blight the landscape with turbines if we just build a few more nuclear power plants...........

[Andy Capp]

Do you remember the hoo-ha when news came out that WBC were going to trial turning street lights off between midnight and 5am? Panic set in... NWN was full of letters from worried residents suggesting that Newbury would suddenly be swept with a tide of lawlessness..... Suddenly everyone was going to be burgled, raped and murdered because some street lights were going to go out (forgetting that most rural villages have survived for centuries without lighting)

I'm not sure what it is your are getting at, but a village is not the same as a town or city. I understand that properly installed street lighting reduces crime in towns and cities.

[On the edge]

I'm not sure what it is your are getting at, but a village is not the same as a town or city. I understand that properly installed street lighting reduces crime in towns and cities.

In a couple of towns 'oop North' switching out or dimming lighting in the small hours had quite the reverse effect. It also had the effect of 'damping down' weekend noise. Modern control systems can dim and switch back to full power quite quickly.

Shows I'm getting past it, because I can remember the same discordant voices complaining about street lighting being installed.

We just hate change!

[On the edge]

....If a few wind turbines could replace a power station then I would all be in favour of them. But they require fossil or nuclear fuel back up. If the wind does not blow, or blows too hard, then wind turbines do not work....

Not necessarily - see earlier post!

[Vodabury]

Do you remember the hoo-ha when news came out that WBC were going to trial turning street lights off between midnight and 5am? Panic set in... NWN was full of letters from worried residents suggesting that Newbury would suddenly be swept with a tide of lawlessness..... Suddenly everyone was going to be burgled, raped and murdered because some street lights were going to go out (forgetting that most rural villages have survived for centuries without lighting)

Still... no need to turn the lights off or blight the landscape with turbines if we just build a few more nuclear power plants...........

Hmm.

The vast majority of domestic burglaries take place during daylight hours.

The vast majority of street crime takes place in towns or cities that are pretty well lit at night.

Nuclear power is not just the answer, but your lights are on tonight because of it.

Rgds

[Andy Capp]

The vast majority of domestic burglaries take place during daylight hours. The vast majority of street crime takes place in towns or cities that are pretty well lit at night.

Neither of these two points prove that properly installed street lighting does not help reduce crime.

[Andy Capp]

In a couple of towns 'oop North' switching out or dimming lighting in the small hours had quite the reverse effect. It also had the effect of 'damping down' weekend noise. Modern control systems can dim and switch back to full power quite quickly.

Brief Googling suggests that opinion is divided.

[Sidney]

Reducing need would be, albeit a futile suggestion, a part of the solution. These days we have so much electronic equipment: three or four tellies, a couple of games consoles, a couple of computers, a dish washer, tumble dryer, fridge/freezer, a washing machine, a microwave, an oven, and a few sound systems per house. Contrast that with 30 years ago where it might be: one or two tellies a Hi Fi, a fridge (and maybe a freezer), a radio, an oven and a washing machine.

Really ??!! Where did you get these statistics from ?

[Andy Capp]

Really ??!! Where did you get these statistics from ?

What stats? I haven't given any stats. I have tried to illustrate the growth of electrical and electronic equipment. I have missed stuff off: digital TV decoders, Internet modems, mobile phones and printers for instance.

[Guest_xjay1337_*]

Nuclear power is green, safe (whether Green Peace would have you believe it or not, unfortunately there are issues, like Japan, but in stable countries like the UK there's no issue with them whatsoever..I'd live right next door to one without any cares at all) and it's cool to say a Nuclear Bomb (well, fission or fusion, can't ever remember) powers your house.