Newbury Town Council - Money saving suggestion. Options

[On the edge]

With the severity of cuts to local government spending and the extra we've been given only a temporary transitional measure we ought to think the unthinkable. Is it not time to re-structure and eliminate the larger parish level councils? In other words, make all parishes the same size and restrict them to being local advisory councils only. The three big ones around Newbury have all demonstrated that they simply don't have the skill and ability to manage the stewardship of large funds. Most of the 'officer' work they do could easily be absorbed by the unitary authority on a marginal basis or with very little extra cost. It's easy to say in the grand scheme of things their spending isn't too much. However, if it's all added up together it is rather large. It would also significantly reduce the confusion that all of these councils say exist in the minds of their customers. Isn't it about time we switched off this money drain?

[user23]

In the grand scheme of things their spending isn't too much.

Seriously though, the current trend is to create new councils at town and parish level, not to get rid of them.

[On the edge]

In the grand scheme of things their spending isn't too much.

Seriously though, the current trend is to create new councils at town and parish level, not to get rid of them.

In project terms maybe, but look at the duplication. The current trend isn't economically viable against today's austerity, unless a more sensible cost effective service delivery method can be achieved.

Arguably, the existence and growth of parish level councils suggests that the Government got it wrong when unitary authorities were set up. By creating large parish / town councils with their own self contained administration is just reverting to the situation that existed before Berkshire County Council was abolished.

There is another major problem that would be significantly eased with the slimming down at parish level would be the damage that happens to the political process. Like it or not, local politics are party driven and even the major parties demonstrably find it a massive challenge to find suitable candidates to fill all the roles. That means a good few Councillors have to sit on more than one authority; so they become over stretched and must loose focus. Similarly, as we saw when there were different parties in power at WBC and NTC much officer time can become wasted in unnecessary wrangling.

In today's climate, 'doing things at local level' doesn't and shouldn't mean extending or creating expensive duplicate councils.

[Cognosco]

In project terms maybe, but look at the duplication. The current trend isn't economically viable against today's austerity, unless a more sensible cost effective service delivery method can be achieved.

Arguably, the existence and growth of parish level councils suggests that the Government got it wrong when unitary authorities were set up. By creating large parish / town councils with their own self contained administration is just reverting to the situation that existed before Berkshire County Council was abolished.

There is another major problem that would be significantly eased with the slimming down at parish level would be the damage that happens to the political process. Like it or not, local politics are party driven and even the major parties demonstrably find it a massive challenge to find suitable candidates to fill all the roles. That means a good few Councillors have to sit on more than one authority; so they become over stretched and must loose focus. Similarly, as we saw when there were different parties in power at WBC and NTC much officer time can become wasted in unnecessary wrangling.

In today's climate, 'doing things at local level' doesn't and shouldn't mean extending or creating expensive duplicate councils.

Especially when you have a local council that refuses to communicate or listen to those who elected them.
When it is analysed as to exactly what our parish councils do then I don't think anyone is able to declare they are value for money. There again the Unitary Authorities would certainly be better off if they studied the meaning of democracy too?

[user23]

Arguably, the existence and growth of parish level councils suggests that the Government got it wrong when unitary authorities were set up. By creating large parish / town councils with their own self contained administration is just reverting to the situation that existed before Berkshire County Council was abolished.

Not really. Before there were three tiers, for example

• Berkshire County Council
• Newbury District Council
• Thatcham Town Council

Now there are two

• West Berkshire Council
• Thatcham Town Council

It removed one tier of government from most of West Berkshire.

[Simon Kirby]

In the grand scheme of things their spending isn't too much.

I'm not so sure. The 65 West Berkshire parishes take around £3.5M, and that's not insignificant, and £1,000,000 of that is spent by the busy-work behemoth that is our beloved town council. Parish councils frequently do some very good work, being close to their community and generally friendly and accessible, and there would be no point in aggregating the administration of all of those local services because for one they tend to be delivered quite economically with not infrequently some volunteer element, and they're also essentially local and work well because they are managed with local knowledge by people with a personal investment in their community.

But that changes as the parish grows, and you get councils like Newbury Town Council that have none of the benefits of being local and accessible and their bland corporate services would be delivered much more efficiently and accountably if they were aggregated under the principle council. NTC delivered little more than a £350k grounds maintenance contract to cut the grass in the parks, open spaces, and cemetery, but it takes it another £350k of staff costs and another £300k of ceremonial niff-naff and assorted flummery to do it. WBC already deliver grounds maintenance and they could easily incorporate Newbury's contract with little additional cost, with an easy £500,000 that could pay for something more useful.

So essentially I agree with OtE, though in point of fact I wouldn't necessarily get rid of the parish level altogether in towns because I still believe that a small local parish council is a force for good if it dedicates itself to empowering its community rather than running it, but I'd certainly stop town council's spending money on all that self-serving civic tat as it isn't very healthy, and I think it's also necessary to limit the size of parish councils so that they never grow too big to lose their contact with their parish, which is their very strength.

[On the edge]

Not really. Before there were three tiers, for example

• Berkshire County Council
• Newbury District Council
• Thatcham Town Council

Now there are two

• West Berkshire Council
• Thatcham Town Council

i
It removed one tier of government from most of West Berkshire.

Err no.

The Thatcham 'Town' Council in the days of Berkshire CC was actually Thatcham Parish Council, according to a relative of mine, who was involved, not much more than a resident's association with clothes on! A real parish council concerned only with parish affairs; no grand building schemes, no full time administrative establishment, no running district council services.

Of course, today, we have even more sophisticated representative bodies. The 'BID' for instance? Where does that very influential but unelected local quango fit? It's very existence is indicative of Newbury Town Council's failure to properly represent the town.

Even in other sectors, I know of no other organisation that strives to increase its management layers.

There is probably great merit in having a locally focussed community council. One very much like the original age old concept of the vestry or parish. Doing no more than representing an immediate locality and providing a locust for neighbours to get together and do things themselves. The reason I'd like to see the existing structure abolished is the fear (based on experience) that if we simply 'clipped wings' the same old would simply grow back.

[Cognosco]

Err no.

The Thatcham 'Town' Council in the days of Berkshire CC was actually Thatcham Parish Council, according to a relative of mine, who was involved, not much more than a resident's association with clothes on! A real parish council concerned only with parish affairs; no grand building schemes, no full time administrative establishment, no running district council services.

Of course, today, we have even more sophisticated representative bodies. The 'BID' for instance? Where does that very influential but unelected local quango fit? It's very existence is indicative of Newbury Town Council's failure to properly represent the town.

Even in other sectors, I know of no other organisation that strives to increase its management layers.

There is probably great merit in having a locally focussed community council. One very much like the original age old concept of the vestry or parish. Doing no more than representing an immediate locality and providing a locust for neighbours to get together and do things themselves. The reason I'd like to see the existing structure abolished is the fear (based on experience) that if we simply 'clipped wings' the same old would simply grow back.

It is now going to cost the poor precept payers to mount a flag that, as I read it, should be paid for and flown by the BID not the council. It does beggar belief that with all the cuts being announced that a LOCAL Council is showing complete disregard of wasting money on flagpoles, just how out of touch can humans get!

Councillor Goff states that a new flagpole will encourage visitors and help shops and I noticed an etc. added at the end but not clear just what the etc. means. If it is to encourage more visitors to shops then clearly the BID should be funding not the council?

[blackdog]

Err no.

The Thatcham 'Town' Council in the days of Berkshire CC was actually Thatcham Parish Council, according to a relative of mine, who was involved, not much more than a resident's association with clothes on! A real parish council concerned only with parish affairs; no grand building schemes, no full time administrative establishment, no running district council services.

Of course, today, we have even more sophisticated representative bodies. The 'BID' for instance? Where does that very influential but unelected local quango fit? It's very existence is indicative of Newbury Town Council's failure to properly represent the town.

Even in other sectors, I know of no other organisation that strives to increase its management layers.

There is probably great merit in having a locally focussed community council. One very much like the original age old concept of the vestry or parish. Doing no more than representing an immediate locality and providing a locust for neighbours to get together and do things themselves. The reason I'd like to see the existing structure abolished is the fear (based on experience) that if we simply 'clipped wings' the same old would simply grow back.

Thatcham Town Council was formed in 1974 - when Berks CC was still going - it had its mayor etc from that time on. It was certainly as User listed it during that period. It is still, of course, a parish council.

Sadly Newbury Town Council was not formed at the same time - or WBC might not have had the same freedom to give freebies to all and sundry developers. Not having a town council meant the district council inherited all the property they are now giving away. Between 1974 and 1995 Newbury itself had no council of any sort.

So for Newbury the history goes:

Lord of the Manor (1080ish) & Sheriff of Berkshire
Lord of the Manor & Berkshire Quarter Sessions (????)
Newbury Corporation (1596) & Berkshire Quarter Sessions
Newbury Borough Council (1836) & Berkshire Quarter Sessions
Newbury Borough Council & Berkshire County Council (1880ish)
Newbury District Council & Berkshire County Council (1974)
Newbury Town Council & West Berkshire District Council (1995 to present)

Always been two tier round here.

[On the edge]

Thatcham Town Council was formed in 1974 - when Berks CC was still going - it had its mayor etc from that time on. It was certainly as User listed it during that period. It is still, of course, a parish council.

Sadly Newbury Town Council was not formed at the same time - or WBC might not have had the same freedom to give freebies to all and sundry developers. Not having a town council meant the district council inherited all the property they are now giving away. Between 1974 and 1995 Newbury itself had no council of any sort.

So for Newbury the history goes:

Lord of the Manor (1080ish) & Sheriff of Berkshire
Lord of the Manor & Berkshire Quarter Sessions (????)
Newbury Corporation (1596) & Berkshire Quarter Sessions
Newbury Borough Council (1836) & Berkshire Quarter Sessions
Newbury Borough Council & Berkshire County Council (1880ish)
Newbury District Council & Berkshire County Council (juju
Newbury Town Council & West Berkshire District Council (1995 to present)

Always been two tier round here.

So who, pray, were the Charter Trustees? At one time then, one tier round here!

[blackdog]

So who, pray, were the Charter Trustees? At one time then, one tier round here!

The Charter Trustees were the trustees of the various charities previously managed by the Borough Council. They also kept the tradition of the mayor going until the Town Council was created and took it on. I believe, but am far from sure, that they continue to manage the charities under a new guise as the trustees of the Newbury Municipal Charities (though one town councillor is a trustee). They had no role in local government.

[Simon Kirby]

...They had no role in local government.

Just like the ceremonial mayor then.

[Simon Kirby]

Always been two tier round here.

Ain't that the truth - them and us.

[user23]

Err no.

The Thatcham 'Town' Council in the days of Berkshire CC was actually Thatcham Parish Council

Thatcham Town Council was created in 1974, so I'm correct in what I say that the District becoming a unitary council in 1998 removed one level of government in most of West Berkshire, including Thatcham.

[Simon Kirby]

...Newbury Town Council & West Berkshire District Council (1995 to present)

1995, or a little later? I certainly had my first allotment tenancy agreement with Newbury District Council when I moved to Newbury in '95 and I didn't think the rot started to set in until a few years after that.

[user23]

1995, or a little later? I certainly had my first allotment tenancy agreement with Newbury District Council when I moved to Newbury in '95 and I didn't think the rot started to set in until a few years after that.

It was 1998.

[Simon Kirby]

It was 1998.

Thanks. You get some terrible misinformation on t'interweb.

[user23]

Thanks. You get some terrible misinformation on t'interweb.

Ill informed, I believe someone once said.

[On the edge]

The Charter Trustees were the trustees of the various charities previously managed by the Borough Council. They also kept the tradition of the mayor going until the Town Council was created and took it on. I believe, but am far from sure, that they continue to manage the charities under a new guise as the trustees of the Newbury Municipal Charities (though one town councillor is a trustee). They had no role in local government.

No, really? Apart from being a formal committee of 'old town constituency' Councillors and of course, during that period, there was no Parish or Town Council for the Newbury Town wards. That meant the people living there were served by just one Council, just one tier!

So, then, 'single tier' was certainly an intention. I cannot see any improvement in cost or efficiency since the creation of Newbury Town Council.

[blackdog]

No, really? Apart from being a formal committee of 'old town constituency' Councillors and of course, during that period, there was no Parish or Town Council for the Newbury Town wards. That meant the people living there were served by just one Council, just one tier!

So, then, 'single tier' was certainly an intention. I cannot see any improvement in cost or efficiency since the creation of Newbury Town Council.

No, the Charter Trustee period was while the County Council was around. Two tier in those days, when the county council was about to be abolished they ensure there would not be single tier by creating the town council.