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> Salt Routes, Where Is Gritted
Strafin
post Jan 10 2010, 11:16 PM
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I'm not sure an appeal would stand up. The defendant would have to prove they were not on Yellow lines, or in a restricted bay. The council would be able to prove that they were, no matter how unfair that may seem, that is the letter of the law.
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user23
post Jan 11 2010, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Sorry, what's that got to do with "Salt Routes"?
I was suggestion both were probably fabricated.
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 10 2010, 10:57 PM) *
Parking tickets normally have details on the back for HOW TO PAY and HOW TO APPEAL.
I'd think any appeal from this vehicle owner would be permitted and the ticket thrown out. Failing that the vehicle owner should be advised by the Council that they could take their appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal ( TPT linky thing ) - previously the National Parking Adjudication Service (NPAS)
True, if they'd ticketed you incorrectly you'll get your money back on appeal, just like you would appealing against any conviction that was overturned.
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Berkshirelad
post Jan 11 2010, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 11 2010, 08:24 AM) *
I was suggestion both were probably fabricated.
True, if they'd ticketed you incorrectly you'll get your money back on appeal, just like you would appealing against any conviction that was overturned.


a) civil enforcement of parking is not a criminal matter (as hinted by the words 'civil enforcement'). Thus there is no conviction whatsoever.

b ) You don't get your money back on appeal. You either pay or appeal. There is no mechanism for getting the money back.

c) if you pay, you are deemed to have accepted liability and no appeal is possible
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Berkshirelad
post Jan 11 2010, 10:35 AM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 10 2010, 11:16 PM) *
I'm not sure an appeal would stand up. The defendant would have to prove they were not on Yellow lines, or in a restricted bay. The council would be able to prove that they were, no matter how unfair that may seem, that is the letter of the law.


Davis V Heatley. If a traffic sign is not as described in the TSRGD, then it cease to exist and cannot be enforced if if its meaning is obvious to a reasonable person. If it is obscured, it does not meet the visibility requirements of the TSRGD.
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Strafin
post Jan 11 2010, 01:07 PM
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QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Jan 11 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Davis V Heatley. If a traffic sign is not as described in the TSRGD, then it cease to exist and cannot be enforced if if its meaning is obvious to a reasonable person. If it is obscured, it does not meet the visibility requirements of the TSRGD.

I don't buy that. Yiu could claim tha it's obscured by rain, or bright sunlight for example. So long as the sign itself is legal I think you would struggle. It would not be unreasonable to expect someone to wipe the snow off to read it.
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Angry of Hungerf...
post Jan 17 2010, 04:20 AM
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Now I'm totally confused (yes it doesn't take much) I have checked the weather forecast for the next 7 days and can't see much sign of frost on the way.

Can someone please explain why on earth WBDC are out gritting this evening?

Let alone 2am on a Sunday morning, and before anyone suggests it is good to have the salt on the roads - it was raining at the time!!!

No wonder our wonderful council runs out of salt so quickly, and no wonder budgets are low when they happily pay for the gritting team work when they don't need to.

On the flip side - it was one of the only west Berkshire gritters seen in hungerford for quite sometime.


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Strafin
post Jan 17 2010, 12:33 PM
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WBDC? Who are they! If they are gritting today though I think it conclusive proof that they don't have a grasp of contingency at all.
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user23
post Jan 17 2010, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Angry of Hungerford @ Jan 17 2010, 04:20 AM) *
Now I'm totally confused (yes it doesn't take much) I have checked the weather forecast for the next 7 days and can't see much sign of frost on the way.

Can someone please explain why on earth WBDC are out gritting this evening?

Let alone 2am on a Sunday morning, and before anyone suggests it is good to have the salt on the roads - it was raining at the time!!!

No wonder our wonderful council runs out of salt so quickly, and no wonder budgets are low when they happily pay for the gritting team work when they don't need to.

On the flip side - it was one of the only west Berkshire gritters seen in hungerford for quite sometime.
Here we go, someone now complaining about too much gritting!

There was a Met Office weather warning for icy roads last night, perhaps with so many calls for roads to be gritted at the first warning of ice that's what they were doing?

The saying "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.
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blackdog
post Jan 17 2010, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 17 2010, 12:33 PM) *
WBDC? Who are they!

West Berkshire District Council - the correct name for our local Unitary Authority. The 'District' is usually dropped, perhaps in an attempt to create the impression that West Berkshire is a county?
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user23
post Jan 17 2010, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 17 2010, 02:49 PM) *
West Berkshire District Council - the correct name for our local Unitary Authority. The 'District' is usually dropped, perhaps in an attempt to create the impression that West Berkshire is a county?
Actually the correct name is West Berkshire Council. You might see West Berkshire District Council used occasionally but that's not their official name.
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spartacus
post Jan 17 2010, 05:42 PM
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The 'District' is certainly used on the legal documents they produce, such as traffic orders. So I'd say their 'official' name for legal purposes must be West Berkshire District Council
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Angry of Hungerf...
post Jan 18 2010, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 17 2010, 02:55 PM) *
Actually the correct name is West Berkshire Council. You might see West Berkshire District Council used occasionally but that's not their official name.


I fear that we again are going off topic but to quote them from their own constituation document -

"1.1 The Council’s Constitution
West Berkshire District Council has produced a Constitution which sets out how the
Council operates, how decisions are made and the procedures which are followed to
ensure that these decisions are efficient, transparent and accountable to local
people. Some of these processes are required by law, while others are a matter for
the Council to choose."

Link to this is - http://www.westberks.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=262&p=0

However I agree that it may sound like I'm complaining that they are gritting to much now - frost was not forcast for last night, I actually emaied the met office and asked this question - They replied "No the overnight temperature for this area was not expected to drop below 1 or 2c - however we expected rain to continue to 4am with a clearing sky to follow. No frost was recorded at our stations within your area"

Surely if I can get this information then "the council", must get more detailed updated than us!

My concern is that when we do get our next cold snap we are all going to be left with little or no salt / grit as they are being over zelus.

I'll give you the my example from this evening - at 10pm in Hungerford High Street, we had a gritter, followed by a recovery vehicle, followed by another gritter - Both gritters speading either salt or grit or the current mix.

My question is WHY? (Perhaps the recovery truck was just in case but I suspect that this was by accident :-) )

Yes this evening is frosty - but do they know something we don't ? I'm guessing tomorrows trip to work will be bad if we need to have gritter out in tandum.


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user23
post Jan 18 2010, 09:28 AM
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Because people have asked for the roads to be gritted at the first warning of frost, I would guess.

I've heard caller after caller to local radio stations requesting this it and I'd imagine they've had similar complaints directly to them.
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TallDarkAndHands...
post Jan 18 2010, 10:27 AM
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The next 'grit run' should be on Tuesday afternoon / Evening. Its not rocket science. Snow is forecast for Wednesday by the Met Office. If they plan for this and monitor the forecast to ensure that the timeframe of the event does not change then this is sensible.
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