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Newbury Today Forum _ Newbury News _ Salt Routes

Posted by: user23 Dec 23 2009, 06:22 PM

This might be of interest to everyone who posted in the recent snow related threads.

http://ww2.westberks.gov.uk/InternetMapping/Map.aspx?tool=cn&x=447236&y=166797&scale=10&size=large&layers=8.6.9.57&opencat=3&import=&report=&daterange=&uprn=&qlayer=&qfield=&qin=&join=

Posted by: GrumblingAgain Dec 23 2009, 07:35 PM

Interesting to see that the access road into Vodafone is a primary gritting route, yet other business parks in the area aren't on any gritting route. Favouritism?

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Dec 23 2009, 07:52 PM

QUOTE (GrumblingAgain @ Dec 23 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Interesting to see that the access road into Vodafone is a primary gritting route, yet other business parks in the area aren't on any gritting route. Favouritism?


Or being a bus route?

Posted by: Darren Dec 23 2009, 07:53 PM

QUOTE (GrumblingAgain @ Dec 23 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Interesting to see that the access road into Vodafone is a primary gritting route, yet other business parks in the area aren't on any gritting route. Favouritism?



Because it's a bus route?

Posted by: JeffG Dec 23 2009, 08:06 PM

Also interesting to see that Buckingham Road/Fifth Road are shown as salt routes, when they are covered with compacted snow/ice.

Posted by: Biker1 Dec 23 2009, 08:15 PM

My local road is shown as a route (in pink which I presume is a lower priority) and is hasn't been touched at all during this cold spell! angry.gif

Posted by: Iommi Dec 23 2009, 08:31 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Dec 23 2009, 08:15 PM) *
My local road is shown as a route (in pink which I presume is a lower priority) and is hasn't been touched at all during this cold spell! angry.gif

Yes, I can now see where they were meant to have salted but clearly didn't, or if they did, was a pathetically little amount, that it was barely worthwhile.

Posted by: Andy Dec 23 2009, 08:42 PM

Record of Salting


Date Route Start Time

Tuesday 15 December Primaries 19:30
Thursday 17 December Primaries 02:00
Thursday 17 December Primaries 14:00
Thursday 17 December Secondaries 18:00
Friday 18 December Primaries 03:30
Friday 18 December Secondaries 09:30
Friday 18 December Town Centre Footways/Carparks 10:00 Approx
Friday 18 December Primaries 13:00
Saturday 19 December Primaries 23:50
Sunday 20 December Secondaries 02:45
Sunday 20 December Secondaries 15:30
Sunday 20 December Primaries 17:30
Monday 21 December Surface Carparks 08:30
Monday 21 December Town Centre Footways/Carparks 11:00
Monday 21 December Primaries 14:00
Monday 21 December Secondaries 17:00
Monday 21 December Primaries (Routes 1-5, 7 and 8) 21:00
Monday 21 December Primaries (Routes 6 and 9) 23:00
Tuesday 22 December Secondaries 09:45
Tuesday 22 December Salt Bin Replenishment (East to West) 10:00
Tuesday 22 December Town Centre Road/Footways 11:00 Approx
Tuesday 22 December Primaries 15:30
Tuesday 22 December Secondaries 18:30
Wednesday 23 December Primaries 08:30
Wednesday 23 December Salt Bin Replenishment conitnuing on a cyclic basis. on-going
Wednesday 23 December Town Centre Footways Subways and Carparks 09:30
Wednesday 23 December Secondaries 12:30
Wednesday 23 December A339 southbound Vodaphone following RTA 14:30

Posted by: Strafin Dec 23 2009, 09:15 PM

Where does the record of salting come from? Because if it's from the council I will indeed take the information "with a pinch of salt"

Posted by: spartacus Dec 23 2009, 10:38 PM

FOR EVERYONE WHO COMPLAINS THAT "THEY NEVER TOUCH MY ROAD AND IT'S SHOWN IN PINK ON THE MAP!!" (Biker1)

Problems with 'salting' or gritting.

1. Lay it too soon, it gets covered with snow and doesn't react properly

2. Lay it when it's too cold and even if it DOES react with the ice/snow, there's a finite temperature where EVEN salt water freezes so the salting become ineffective and turns to 'black ice'..

3. Lay it when there's a bit of surface water, it gets washed straight down the nearest drain and into the nearest watercourse... (Great for the local eco-system and does nothing for clearing the road)

4. Lay it when it's too dry, the wind turbulence of passing traffic will just blow it to the edge of carriageway where it's ineffective and wasteful.

4. Lay it when there's not enough traffic to 'crush' the salt and cause the reaction with ice, it'll just lay there.

5. Lay it between 11pm and 6am when the routes are clear enough to allow efficient laying to take place in readiness for the following morning's traffic? Well "nobody sees it" because everybody's tucked up in bed while the gritter lorry drivers are working their little butts off!! Reason Number One for everyone to say "I never see a bleedin' gritter truck down this road". It take 10 seconds to drive past your front door. Unless you happen to be stood outside having a fag you ain't going to necessarily see it. What do you think the lorry driver should do? Honk thier horn every 2 seconds?! Have a merry tune twinkling away like an ice cream van? rolleyes.gif

Problem 6 with salting: Lazy fekers who never clean their cars from one year to the next will find that the salt has been chewing on their chassis throughout the summer and find the next time they slam their anchors on in the snow, their foot goes through the floorpan...

Posted by: spartacus Dec 23 2009, 10:47 PM

Oh and BTW... Notice on the 'Salting Routes' plan that Faraday Road isn't included for salting. At the far end is where WBC Highways are located, so no real favouritism going on and looking after their own as far as that's concerned. And if you look at the salting plan map to it's maximum scale, you may just appreciate how many roads the gritters are trying to cover.

A few hundred miles of road there.... They can't do EVERY little residential road y'know rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Iommi Dec 23 2009, 10:54 PM

Reading between the lines it would suggest that salting/gritting is pointless.

In my view the salting/gritting in some primary areas was not done well enough. In previous years gritting was evident, this period it wasn't. Particularly on hills.

Road surface temperatures, can be up to 5 -7 degrees lower than air temperature. It has been very cold for many days now; before the snow came.

Posted by: spartacus Dec 23 2009, 10:59 PM

About time people reverted to common practise from a few decades ago and started helping themselves and their community a little bit more. Too many reports received of people taking buckets up to their nearest Salt Bins and loading up buckets just to spread on the front drives.....!! That's NOT what the salt bins are for!! You MEANT to spread it on the adjacent slope to the bin!!

Posted by: Iommi Dec 23 2009, 11:02 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Dec 23 2009, 10:59 PM) *
About time people reverted to common practise from a few decades ago and started helping themselves and their community a little bit more. Too many reports received of people taking buckets up to their nearest Salt Bins and loading up buckets just to spread on the front drives.....!! That's NOT what the salt bins are for!! You MEANT to spread it on the adjacent slope to the bin!!

Manually trying to do this on, say, Pyle (spelling?) Hill could be hazardous for the spreaderer.

Posted by: spartacus Dec 23 2009, 11:15 PM

You're being ridiculous...
Pyle Hill is a Primary Route according to the map and so is a salting route. Salt bins are located in minor residential roads, generally with steep slopes, which can then be treated by local residents as the situation dictates. When the salt/grit runs out, you phone the Council and they refill it.

Some people expect the Council to do everything INCLUDING wiping their ar$es! If you want them to do THAT I would expect to see a BIG raise in the Council Tax next year.......

Posted by: Iommi Dec 24 2009, 12:49 AM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Dec 23 2009, 11:15 PM) *
You're being ridiculous...
Pyle Hill is a Primary Route according to the map and so is a salting route. Salt bins are located in minor residential roads, generally with steep slopes, which can then be treated by local residents as the situation dictates. When the salt/grit runs out, you phone the Council and they refill it.

Some people expect the Council to do everything INCLUDING wiping their ar$es! If you want them to do THAT I would expect to see a BIG raise in the Council Tax next year.......

Now who's being ridiculous? I don't expect the Council to wipe my ahs. rolleyes.gif

If Pyle Hill is a primary route, it wasn't evident this week! I saw abandoned cars there, not withstanding a pinch spot with the speed cameras and pedestrian crossing. In any case I used the road as an example, but let's say the Nightingales crescent then, if you're going to be pedantic and rude! dry.gif

Guess what I saw earlier on...yes a gritter in Thatcham. tongue.gif

Posted by: Jayjay Dec 24 2009, 07:44 AM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Dec 23 2009, 07:52 PM) *
Or being a bus route?


Number 11 bus route that serves the hospital has not been gritted. Yesterday morning only two bus routes (Kintbury and Lamboune) were running, number 1 ran later in the day. All Vodafone bus routes ran from first thing.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Dec 24 2009, 08:17 AM

QUOTE (Jayjay @ Dec 24 2009, 07:44 AM) *
Number 11 bus route that serves the hospital has not been gritted. Yesterday morning only two bus routes (Kintbury and Lamboune) were running, number 1 ran later in the day. All Vodafone bus routes ran from first thing.


Also The Link to Kingsclere and B'stoke, Jayjay, although Stagecoach didn't work their bit until later in the day

Posted by: Strafin Dec 24 2009, 08:22 AM

What's wrong with expecting the council to do a lot more? Over the last few years services have been cut and cut and cut and the taxes have gone up and up and up. This would never be accepted from a private company so why is it allowed to happen with WBC? If they stopped collecting the rubbish would the same people accept it and say we should all be doing our own?

Posted by: user23 Dec 24 2009, 09:11 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Dec 24 2009, 08:22 AM) *
What's wrong with expecting the council to do a lot more? Over the last few years services have been cut and cut and cut and the taxes have gone up and up and up. This would never be accepted from a private company so why is it allowed to happen with WBC? If they stopped collecting the rubbish would the same people accept it and say we should all be doing our own?
We have ageing population in this country that's costing more and more to look after.

Running these services like a private company would result in sending some in need out on the streets or not delivering them meals or the care they needs when the cash ran out. I don't think I need to say what the ultimate result of this could be, especially at times like these.

Posted by: Darren Dec 24 2009, 12:52 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 24 2009, 09:11 AM) *
We have ageing population in this country that's costing more and more to look after.

Running these services like a private company would result in sending some in need out on the streets or not delivering them meals or the care they needs when the cash ran out. I don't think I need to say what the ultimate result of this could be, especially at times like these.


And none of us are getting any younger. sad.gif

Posted by: Jeven Dec 24 2009, 02:30 PM

They've been gritting Park Lane in Thatcham every day it seems, presumably because of the hill? Yet they ignore Park Avenue and other important routes that I have to drive down.

Posted by: Andy Dec 24 2009, 02:41 PM

QUOTE (Jeven @ Dec 24 2009, 02:30 PM) *
They've been gritting Park Lane in Thatcham every day it seems, presumably because of the hill? Yet they ignore Park Avenue and other important routes that I have to drive down.


Did you not contact the council and let them have your driving route and departure times for each day?? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: santolina Dec 26 2009, 10:25 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 23 2009, 06:22 PM) *
This might be of interest to everyone who posted in the recent snow related threads.

http://ww2.westberks.gov.uk/InternetMapping/Map.aspx?tool=cn&x=447236&y=166797&scale=10&size=large&layers=8.6.9.57&opencat=3&import=&report=&daterange=&uprn=&qlayer=&qfield=&qin=&join=


Some years ago Councils used to provide gritter bins on estates, so people could clear their own roads and pavements. I haven't seen one of these bins for years.

However, I do think that people should clear outside their own front drive and the pavement. If everyone did this it would be less hazardous for people to drive or walk.

I think in Germany it is the homeowner who is responsible for clearing their own pathway and you can be involved in a litigation case if someone trips and falls over outside your house.

Now I don't really believe in the sueing culture (for lots of tiny issues, usually!), but I do think that the Germans have a point. It would certainly get people off their backsides to clear the pathways if a potential court case were in the offing!

Posted by: GMR Dec 26 2009, 10:30 PM

QUOTE (santolina @ Dec 26 2009, 10:25 PM) *
Some years ago Councils used to provide gritter bins on estates, so people could clear their own roads and pavements. I haven't seen one of these bins for years.



We've got a gritter bin at the top of our road. It is regularly filled and it was used quite a bit when we had the bad weather.

Posted by: santolina Dec 26 2009, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (GMR @ Dec 26 2009, 10:30 PM) *
We've got a gritter bin at the top of our road. It is regularly filled and it was used quite a bit when we had the bad weather.

unsure.gif Lucky you. I live on a new estate and they don't think about little details such as this one anymore.

Anyway a lack of grit maybe, but a backbone would be useful for some residents who are too lazy to clear their paths!

Posted by: GMR Dec 26 2009, 11:03 PM

QUOTE (santolina @ Dec 26 2009, 10:57 PM) *
unsure.gif Lucky you. I live on a new estate and they don't think about little details such as this one anymore.

Anyway a lack of grit maybe, but a backbone would be useful for some residents who are too lazy to clear their paths!


You could always ask for one.

Why should they clear their paths? Just scraping the snow off makes it more dangerous. If they are going to do it then they should grit it as well. not everybody has grit.

Posted by: Iommi Dec 27 2009, 09:07 AM

QUOTE (santolina @ Dec 26 2009, 10:57 PM) *
unsure.gif Lucky you. I live on a new estate and they don't think about little details such as this one anymore. Anyway a lack of grit maybe, but a backbone would be useful for some residents who are too lazy to clear their paths!

The danger was compacted snow, but the other night, even the areas that were clear of snow became slippery.

Posted by: Jeven Dec 29 2009, 05:59 PM

QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 24 2009, 02:41 PM) *
Did you not contact the council and let them have your driving route and departure times for each day?? laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif


Who do I get in contact with?

Posted by: Exhausted Dec 29 2009, 06:36 PM

QUOTE (Jeven @ Dec 29 2009, 05:59 PM) *
Who do I get in contact with?

The person who deals with salt bins for the council......

Posted by: Lee Dec 30 2009, 10:10 AM

Urquhart Road, Kennet Heath in Thatcham doesn't get gritted even though it's a bus route!!

West Berkshire say it won't get gritted as it's not an adopted road, Redrow (the developer) say they won't grit it as it's a bus route and so is the responsibility of the council.

Either way, busses and residents are at risk ever time it snows or is icy!

I love the fact that the road is clearly suitable for busses but not suitable to be gritted.
West Berks say they can't enter with a gritting lorry as the road is "private property" yet they are happy to send busses onto "private property".

Whole situation is a joke... just not a funny one!

Posted by: Lee Dec 30 2009, 10:15 AM


Where the "orange" road is Urquhart Road, as you can see the roads either side, Station Road and The Moors are primary, yet Urquhart is left to freeze with busses travelling up and down.

The map they are using (and that I've edited) is out of date as the Kennet Heath estate is now fully built.

Posted by: user23 Dec 30 2009, 05:52 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 30 2009, 10:10 AM) *
Urquhart Road, Kennet Heath in Thatcham doesn't get gritted even though it's a bus route!!

West Berkshire say it won't get gritted as it's not an adopted road, Redrow (the developer) say they won't grit it as it's a bus route and so is the responsibility of the council.

Either way, busses and residents are at risk ever time it snows or is icy!

I love the fact that the road is clearly suitable for busses but not suitable to be gritted.
West Berks say they can't enter with a gritting lorry as the road is "private property" yet they are happy to send busses onto "private property".

Whole situation is a joke... just not a funny one!
West Berks don't send buses anywhere in Thatcham as far as I'm aware, that's down to Newbury Buses.

They certainly don't have any responsibility for gritting private property either or I'd have them round doing my drive.

Posted by: Iommi Dec 30 2009, 05:58 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 30 2009, 05:52 PM) *
They certainly don't have any responsibility for gritting private property either or I'd have them round doing my drive.

I thought someone as community spirited as you would have volunteered to have cleared your own drive; to save money for the more needy and all that! wink.gif It seems, however, that you could be just as me, me, me, as the rest of us! tongue.gif

Posted by: blackdog Dec 30 2009, 06:59 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 30 2009, 10:15 AM) *
Where the "orange" road is Urquhart Road, as you can see the roads either side, Station Road and The Moors are primary, yet Urquhart is left to freeze with busses travelling up and down.

The Moors is pink - a secondary route, not primary.

Posted by: Lee Dec 30 2009, 07:21 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 30 2009, 05:52 PM) *
They certainly don't have any responsibility for gritting private property either or I'd have them round doing my drive.


Its not private property, it never has been and never will be.
Thats just it, but West Berks aren't willing to listen.

Posted by: user23 Dec 30 2009, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 30 2009, 07:21 PM) *
Its not private property, it never has been and never will be.
Thats just it, but West Berks aren't willing to listen.
Of course it has been private property, it was owned by Redrow and I suspect still is.

If the road hasn't been adopted then it's up to them to look after it.

Oh, and laugh.gif @ Iommi

Posted by: On the edge Dec 30 2009, 10:17 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 30 2009, 08:49 PM) *
Of course it has been private property, it was owned by Redrow and I suspect still is.

If the road hasn't been adopted then it's up to them to look after it.

Oh, and laugh.gif @ Iommi


Have to agree. This is the usual try on that most developers seem to play these days. They know full well what the Local Council needs before it can adopt the highways and public provisions they have to put in. Those rules are in place to make sure the rest of us don't catch the additional costs putting matters right later. We took a new house on such a development once - took a concerted effort by the new residents to kick the developer into action.

Posted by: Rupert Jan 1 2010, 01:32 AM

I only hope that we dont have a return of the ice/snow. Our road did not see any salt/grit, walked/slid up the road to the salt bin. Salt bin gone!! Has been in same location for several years!! Phone Streetcare/Dont care, told never had a bin in that location!! They are only placed on inclines!! Manage to locate a Salt bin, outside Council Offices and another outside the Town Hall. Excuse me but neither are on a hill!!

Posted by: On the edge Jan 1 2010, 05:28 PM

You'll have to keep quiet about that. Otherwise someone will start complaining when the Council take notice of your observation and relocate to the top of a suitable hill...

Posted by: spartacus Jan 1 2010, 08:42 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 30 2009, 07:21 PM) *
Its not private property, it never has been and never will be.
Thats just it, but West Berks aren't willing to listen.
Lee, I believe you're the Admin fella for the Kennet Heath Forum and the Chair (or similar) of the Residents Association of the estate, so will be fully up to speed on what responsibilities the developer has and what obligations the Council has. It was previously 'owned' by MOD when the Depot was there, but now is 'owned' by the developer.

This is a major development of around 800 houses. The building is still ongoing at the westernmost part of the estate. Until construction on the site is fully completed and all the infrastructure (including street lighting, drainage and road construction) has gone through it's standard maintenance period, inspection and checks, then no council in this country would take on responsibility for gritting what is in effect a private road.... managed by a combination of the developers and the estate management company. (currently CPM Asset Management?). If nothing else, there would also be a liability issue to consider if the Council WERE to take on gritting this road.

There would also be uproar from other council tax payers in the district if it was decided that private estate roads such as Kennet Heath were included, when other areas on fully adopted roads, were not.

The added complication with Urquhart Road is that it has RISING BOLLARDS (very popular discussion point on here.... wink.gif ) at the link to Braemore Close so only buses can get through.

I'd get on to your developers.

Make a big stink about it and Reading Buses (NOT WBC wink.gif ) may consider taking Urquhart Road off their route which would solve the problem. I understand that their drivers already regularly complain that access through the estate is very difficult at times because there are so many parked cars in the estate (classic case of building too many houses with not enough off-street parking areas). These cars park close to the chicanes and speed humps and there has been occasion when buses couldn't get through.

The recent incident when a bus was damaged near the bollards because the road hadn't been salted by the developer is (I understand) making the Reading Buses management reconsider their routings. If you want this facility maintained I suggest you get onto your developer...

Posted by: Iommi Jan 1 2010, 09:00 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 1 2010, 08:42 PM) *
Lee, I believe you're the Admin fella for the Kennet Heath Forum and the Chair (or similar) of the Residents Association of the estate, so will be fully up to speed on what responsibilities the developer has and what obligations the Council has. It was previously 'owned' by MOD when the Depot was there, but now is 'owned' by the developer.

This is a major development of around 800 houses. The building is still ongoing at the westernmost part of the estate. Until construction on the site is fully completed and all the infrastructure (including street lighting, drainage and road construction) has gone through it's standard maintenance period, inspection and checks, then no council in this country would take on responsibility for gritting what is in effect a private road.... managed by a combination of the developers and the estate management company. (currently CPM Asset Management?). If nothing else, there would also be a liability issue to consider if the Council WERE to take on gritting this road.

There would also be uproar from other council tax payers in the district if it was decided that private estate roads such as Kennet Heath were included, when other areas on fully adopted roads, were not.

The added complication with Urquhart Road is that it has RISING BOLLARDS (very popular discussion point on here.... wink.gif ) at the link to Braemore Close so only buses can get through.

I'd get on to your developers.

Make a big stink about it and Reading Buses (NOT WBC wink.gif ) may consider taking Urquhart Road off their route which would solve the problem. I understand that their drivers already regularly complain that access through the estate is very difficult at times because there are so many parked cars in the estate (classic case of building too many houses with not enough off-street parking areas). These cars park close to the chicanes and speed humps and there has been occasion when buses couldn't get through.

The recent incident when a bus was damaged near the bollards because the road hadn't been salted by the developer is (I understand) making the Reading Buses management reconsider their routings. If you want this facility maintained I suggest you get onto your developer...

Presumably this place doesn't have to pay Council Tax? Eh?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 1 2010, 10:03 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 1 2010, 09:00 PM) *
Presumably this place doesn't have to pay Council Tax? Eh?

Que??! I no unnerstan'....


I assume the honest ones pay council tax....

and I assume they get their bins emptied, can send their kids to the local school, will use the public roads which their estate leads onto, yada yada yada.

It doesn't mean that the Council should be banging a gritter up there just because the locals want one though does it?.

Sending gritters up relatively narrow residential roads leads to other problems invariably anyway. That's when the complaints start to be made that gritters have 'damaged cars' and chipped paint as they travel past and fling out the rocksalt....


Another thing with unadopted roads is that they are not subject to the same Traffic Law, so technically if the locals in this Thatcham estate report a problem with speeding/nuisance drivers, there isn't a GREAT deal the police can do about it as far as actual prosecution is concerned. They can of course send a patrol car there and 'be seen' or move the problem along, but they cannot issue tickets on private roads....

Posted by: Iommi Jan 1 2010, 10:41 PM

Put simply... what a load bollix. I presume Their council tax will be assessed as any other, whether adopted or not. They, therefore should be entitled to the same services. Either that, or a discount.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 1 2010, 10:46 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 1 2010, 10:41 PM) *
I presume Their council tax will be assessed as any other,

Badly?

Posted by: user23 Jan 1 2010, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 1 2010, 10:41 PM) *
Put simply... what a load bollix. I presume Their council tax will be assessed as any other, whether adopted or not. They, therefore should be entitled to the same services. Either that, or a discount.
They do get the same services on all public roads in their area.

As I said earlier, if the council are going to look after private property such as the road in question I'll expect them round gritting my drive.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 09:21 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 1 2010, 11:27 PM) *
They do get the same services on all public roads in their area. As I said earlier, if the council are going to look after private property such as the road in question I'll expect them round gritting my drive.

I don't expect my drive gritting, that's a stupid argument, but I do expect all primary routes with public access.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 2 2010, 09:25 AM

There are loads of unadopted residential roads across the district.

Urquhart Road in Thatcham is a temporary thing while the estate is under construction and I would assume that it will become fully adopted in due course.

In other areas there are Private Roads where only the residents would normally be allowed access.
There is also another category known as a 'Private Street'. These are roads over which the general public has rights of way but the residents are responsible for maintenance

The residents of these roads pay Council Tax but should not be expecting the Council to provide a gritting service or repair pothole/blocked drains

Urquhart Road is not a Primary Route. Remember, this is a route through the housing estate which has rising bollards at one end for buses only. The route essentially becomes like a private estate road because you can only get IN and OUT via the single entrance onto Station Road. No need for the general road user to go in there unless they're visiting friends/rellies

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 09:34 AM

If Urquhart Road is not a primary route, then I see no reason why it should be gritted. Although if I were the bus operator, I would make adequate gritting/salting a condition of access.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 10:06 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 09:21 AM) *
I don't expect my drive gritting, that's a stupid argument, but I do expect all primary routes with public access.
It's not a primary route, it's a private road to people's houses much like my drive is.

Not such a "stupid argument" now you've been informed of this, is it?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 10:11 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 10:06 AM) *
It's not a primary route. Not such a "stupid argument" now you've been informed of this, is it?

Your argument was stupid because you are drawing an analogy with your drive (do you actually have one?) and a private road.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 10:17 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 10:11 AM) *
Your argument was stupid because you are drawing an analogy with your drive (do you actually have one?) and a private road.
There you go again, you were clearly the one not in possession of all the facts and you've called my argument stupid twice now. This speaks volumes for all to see.

A drive is a private road, the road in question is a private road.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 10:19 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 10:17 AM) *
There you go again, you were clearly the one not in possession of all the facts and you've called my argument stupid twice now. This speaks volumes for all to see. A drive is a private road, the road in question is a private road.

The point is, regardless of whether a road is private or not is immaterial as not all roads are gritted, only primary ones and some secondary ones. Your drive is not likely to be a primary or secondary route, so your argument, for the third time, is stupid.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 11:07 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 10:19 AM) *
The point is, regardless of whether a road is private or not is immaterial as not all roads are gritted, only primary ones and some secondary ones. Your drive is not likely to be a primary or secondary route, so your argument, for the third time, is stupid.
A private road is not likely to be a primary or secondary route, just like my drive.

In fact if the point is so stupid please tell us all any private roads in the Newbury area you know of that are primary routes.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 11:33 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 11:07 AM) *
A private road is not likely to be a primary or secondary route, just like my drive. In fact if the point is so stupid please tell us all any private roads in the Newbury area you know of that are primary routes.

This is besides the point, only primary and secondary routes are salted. Your drive, which might be private, and many other public and private roads, don't get salted, even if they are on a bus route.

Your argument implied that should public sponsored gritting be permitted on private roads, that you would expect your drive to be gritted. I'm saying, that gritting is performed only on roads of merit, that is to say, roads of significant public use. Your drive, regardless of private or public status wouldn't qualify by either measure. Your 'drive' analogy, therefore, is simply stupid.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 11:44 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 11:33 AM) *
This is besides the point, only primary and secondary routes are salted. Your drive, which might be private, and many other public and private roads, don't get salted, even if they are on a bus route.

Your argument was due to the private status, it shouldn't be gritted, my argument is that roads that are primary and secondary should be salted. The issue with the orignal poster on the subject was to assume that because a bus uses the road, that it deservers salting. This is not the case because it is isn't a significant route.
Come on, which private roads are primary routes in the Newbury area, stop wriggling.

Let's see how stupid the point was by you listing all of them in your next post.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2010, 11:47 AM

Wasn't Vodafone gritted?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 11:47 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 11:44 AM) *
Come on, which private roads are primary routes in the Newbury area, stop wriggling. Let's see how stupid the point was by you listing all of them in your next post.

This is not a wriggle, I simply don't know! Now answer me this, why would you expect your drive to be salted by the council if private roads were salted?

Everyone on this board, however, can see you wriggling, but this doesn't validate your stupid 'grit my drive' argument.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 2 2010, 11:47 AM

Children, children... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 11:50 AM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 2 2010, 11:47 AM) *
Children, children... rolleyes.gif

And your post is a 'mature' one? rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 11:52 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 11:47 AM) *
This is not a wriggle, I simply don't know! Everyone on this board, however, can see you wriggling. But this doesn't validate your stupid 'grit my drive' argument.
Best not call my point stupid three times if you simply don't know what you're talking about. laugh.gif

You're verging on GMR territory with the "I'm not wriggling, you are" line there. Every time he lost a debate he used to post "I'm not... you are". biggrin.gif

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 11:52 AM) *
Best not call my point stupid three times if you simply don't know what you're talking about. laugh.gif

I'll call your argument stupid when I think it is, however, I never called you stupid, that's the main thing. Whether I know if there are private roads that are primary or secondary routes, or even if there is or not, makes no difference to the argument about your 'grit my drive' analogy. Yet another attempt by you to divert from your erroneous argument.

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 11:52 AM) *
You're verging on GMR territory with the "I'm not wriggling, you are" line there. Every time he lost a debate he used to post "I'm not... you are". biggrin.gif

I repeat, you are attempting to save face by childishly diverting the issue, but my point remains, why would you expect your drive to be salted, should private roads be granted as a legitimate salting route?

My point is, primary and secondary routes should be gritted. Your drive, regardless of public or private status doesn't and wouldn't qualify. That is why it is a stupid analogy.

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 07:10 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 11:58 AM) *
I'll call your argument stupid when I think it is, however, I never called you stupid, that's the main thing. Whether I know if there are private roads that are primary or secondary routes, or even if there is or not, makes no difference to the argument about your 'grit my drive' analogy. Yet another attempt by you to divert from your erroneous argument.


I repeat, you are attempting to save face by childishly diverting the issue, but my point remains, why would you expect your drive to be salted, should private roads be granted as a legitimate salting route?

My point is, primary and secondary routes should be gritted. Your drive, regardless of public or private status doesn't and wouldn't qualify. That is why it is a stupid analogy.
Come on, which private roads are primary or secondary routes in the Newbury area and therefore gritted, stop wriggling.

Let's see how stupid the point was by you listing all of them in your next post, last chance to prove me wrong.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 07:10 PM) *
Come on, which private roads are primary or secondary routes in the Newbury area and therefore gritted, stop wriggling. Let's see how stupid the point was by you listing all of them in your next post, last chance to prove me wrong.

Do I detect another tactical retreat? tongue.gif But any way, what difference does it make to the argument? It would seem that it is not just your 'drive' post that is stupid. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 2 2010, 07:36 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 2 2010, 07:28 PM) *
Do I detect another tactical retreat? tongue.gif But any way, what difference does it make to the argument? It would seem that it is not just your 'drive' post that is stupid. rolleyes.gif
No list? Seems the point wasn't so stupid after all. laugh.gif

Posted by: Exhausted Jan 2 2010, 08:38 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 2 2010, 11:07 AM) *
A private road is not likely to be a primary or secondary route, just like my drive.

In fact if the point is so stupid please tell us all any private roads in the Newbury area you know of that are primary routes.


To my mind this is an analogy which is correct. A private unadopted Road which is what was being discussed may be on a bus route, it may be used as a through road but it is not owned by WBC therefore they have no responsibility to grit or do anything else including getting their contractor to sweep the road or clean out drains. So I agree with User that if they do grit a private road then they could be expected to grit everywhere.
As far as the old chestnut about I shouldn't have to pay council tax if the road in front of my house isn't gritted is not valid. All the normal functions of WBC as far as their responsibilities are concerned are carried out including gritting the primary roads that lead to the private estate roads.
If you really want your road gritted, there are private contractors who will do this for you if you all have a whip round as do a large number of private companies in the area. I doubt Vodafone was gritted by WBC as suggested earlier and feel sure that one of the private contractors would have been paid to do this.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 2 2010, 09:00 PM

I agree with Iommi that a driveway with no public access is different to a housing estate, with exclusive access for buses at one end, and a high volume of usage by other traffic.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 2 2010, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (Exhausted @ Jan 2 2010, 08:38 PM) *
To my mind this is an analogy which is correct. A private unadopted Road which is what was being discussed may be on a bus route, it may be used as a through road but it is not owned by WBC therefore they have no responsibility to grit or do anything else including getting their contractor to sweep the road or clean out drains. So I agree with User that if they do grit a private road then they could be expected to grit everywhere.

Why?

Would either you or user23 explain why a council gritting a private road would make it obligatory for a council to grit someone's drive?

I could understand the logic to some degree if all public roads were gritted/salted, but they are not. Being a public road doesn't on its own qualify it to be gritted. So like wise, I cannot see how one can rightly claim that gritting unadopted roads like the one in question, would oblige the council to include people's drives! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Iommi Jan 3 2010, 02:45 PM

Meanwhile, there is black ice every where, but no salting. Has any one been by the bottom of Strawberry Hill, (near The Lion) where local residents (?) are out side trying to warn people of the ice?

No salters lately, it seems. Not enough snow perhaps?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 5 2010, 11:40 AM

No Grit or Salt Left appears to be the problem. If we are to take Global warming seriously then we need to have more grit and salt as the Winters will be colder and more Continental (if you believe in Climate change...)

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2010, 11:44 AM

Time to pull up the drawbridge and hibernate, I think. More heavy snow forecast and everywhere running out of salt.

Posted by: part time Jan 5 2010, 11:54 AM

So with the kids due back to school tomorrow, what's the odds on them getting an extended Christmas break?

Posted by: Darren Jan 5 2010, 12:36 PM

The problem appears to be with the mines. They currently produce 30,000 tons a week, but have orders for 300,000 tons,

Posted by: regor Jan 5 2010, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (Darren @ Jan 5 2010, 12:36 PM) *
The problem appears to be with the mines. They currently produce 30,000 tons a week, but have orders for 300,000 tons,



Yeah Right Blame it on the miners.

Anyone seen Mrs T lately?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 5 2010, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (regor @ Jan 5 2010, 01:23 PM) *
Yeah Right Blame it on the miners.

Anyone seen Mrs T lately?


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_warnings.html?day=1

Take Action! Run!

Posted by: Roost Jan 5 2010, 02:03 PM

Hmm, maybe if the stocks of salt had been adequate in the first place.....

Oh hang on. Weren't we told that they were? unsure.gif

Posted by: Bloggo Jan 5 2010, 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Roost @ Jan 5 2010, 02:03 PM) *
Hmm, maybe if the stocks of salt had been adequate in the first place.....

Oh hang on. Weren't we told that they were? unsure.gif

I think I recall WBC stating that they had adequate supplies of road salt.
Guess they underestimated!!!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 5 2010, 02:16 PM

QUOTE (Bloggo @ Jan 5 2010, 02:14 PM) *
I think I recall WBC stating that they had adequate supplies of road salt.
Guess they underestimated!!!


I expect Mr Spray will go all quiet now or give use the 'unprecedented' or 'extreme' speech.
Its Winter. Should we not expect it to be cold and snow?

Posted by: Darren Jan 5 2010, 02:17 PM

A quick drive past the depot at Chievely a few weeks ago showed mountains of rocksalt. Unless you keep it under cover, the rain will leach the salt out and you'll be left with a pile of grit.

I suppose they could have spent extra money and turned the showground into a giant depot but given we were suppose to have a Barbecue Summer, everyone woild be now complaining if we had a mild winter.

Save us from armchair experts.

Posted by: ropey Jan 5 2010, 03:39 PM

Rarely have felt such anger towards this local authority, during the days of the ice and snow, town centre footpaths were without doubt in an appaling condition even after around 3 days some were still treacherous. Only where the sun had managed to melt some of the ice did some of the paths become useable. Council spokesman Mr Spray is wrong in saying that town centre footpaths were done at Christmas, some were, but most were not. Councils are there to support infrastructure. I would hope that if the snow do arrive once agin tonight that WBC will prioritise not major routes which clear themselves but town footpaths, so that those people who decide to walk to work or to the shops can then at least expect to be able to walk safely. I sincerely hope that senior council officers and senior councillors get out of their offices and go and take a look at just how dangerous our footpaths have become.

There are several footpath gritting machines on the market ( just look on the internet of you are reading Highway officers and get your budget to afford one or two) which could tackle a town like newbury quite quickly. These type of expenses would never be treated as anything other than a wise investment even of they are only used for a couple of months per year.




Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 05:55 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 5 2010, 02:16 PM) *
I expect Mr Spray will go all quiet now or give use the 'unprecedented' or 'extreme' speech.
Its Winter. Should we not expect it to be cold and snow?
No, not this level of snow in a two week period. This is the worst snow for 20 years.

Where's the money going to come from from fancy new pavement gritters that might not be used for years, from my Council Tax?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 5 2010, 06:15 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 5 2010, 05:55 PM) *
Where's the money going to come from from fancy new pavement gritters that might not be used for years, from my Council Tax?

Hey, where did you get the council tax from? tongue.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 06:20 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 5 2010, 06:15 PM) *
Hey, where did you get the council tax from? tongue.gif
laugh.gif

For those interested you can see where has been gritted by going here

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=18886

And clicking on Gritting, then clicking on the Excel spreadsheet.

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 5 2010, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (Roost @ Jan 5 2010, 02:03 PM) *
Hmm, maybe if the stocks of salt had been adequate in the first place.....

Oh hang on. Weren't we told that they were? unsure.gif

The Met Office long term winter forcast was for a mild winter. Now, WBC could of course have decided to ignore the Met Office, & bought up huge amounts of rock salt, at our expense. What if the met office had been right?
I can see the headlines & thread now 'WBC wastes tax payers cash on salt mountain'.....

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 5 2010, 06:24 PM

QUOTE (ropey @ Jan 5 2010, 03:39 PM) *
Rarely have felt such anger towards this local authority, during the days of the ice and snow, town centre footpaths were without doubt in an appaling condition even after around 3 days some were still treacherous. Only where the sun had managed to melt some of the ice did some of the paths become useable. Council spokesman Mr Spray is wrong in saying that town centre footpaths were done at Christmas, some were, but most were not. Councils are there to support infrastructure. I would hope that if the snow do arrive once agin tonight that WBC will prioritise not major routes which clear themselves but town footpaths, so that those people who decide to walk to work or to the shops can then at least expect to be able to walk safely. I sincerely hope that senior council officers and senior councillors get out of their offices and go and take a look at just how dangerous our footpaths have become.

There are several footpath gritting machines on the market ( just look on the internet of you are reading Highway officers and get your budget to afford one or two) which could tackle a town like newbury quite quickly. These type of expenses would never be treated as anything other than a wise investment even of they are only used for a couple of months per year.

Do what? waste cash on machines that will remain idle year in year out?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 5 2010, 06:46 PM

I don't think it is necessarily the amount of snow that is the problem, but the sustained period of near zero, or sub zero temperatures. I also understand that there are different recomended mixes of salt/grit according to whether it is snowy, icy or both.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 5 2010, 07:18 PM

It's nothing more than incompetence. We went through all this last year, someone in the council is responsible for foreseeing these things and taking the necessary steps. I don't expect every bit of tarmac to be gritted, but I do expect the primary routes to be and then if needs be, done again.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2010, 07:29 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 5 2010, 07:18 PM) *
someone in the council is responsible for foreseeing these things

Presumably by taking advice from the experts at the Met Office? Or perhaps by pinning up a piece of seaweed - much more reliable.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 5 2010, 07:39 PM

The Met office have been banging on about the snow for ages, as they did last year so yes maybe they would be a good start.

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 5 2010, 07:18 PM) *
It's nothing more than incompetence. We went through all this last year, someone in the council is responsible for foreseeing these things and taking the necessary steps. I don't expect every bit of tarmac to be gritted, but I do expect the primary routes to be and then if needs be, done again.
You don't half make up some rubbish! We didn't go through the worst snow for 20 years, last year.

If you'd bothered to look you can see that the routes were gritted today.

Crying wolf like this just spoils it for everyone else when there is a real problem.

Posted by: Roost Jan 5 2010, 07:55 PM

While I don't doubt that the routes were gritted, I haven't personally seen a gritter out and about and I spend quite a lot of time on the road!

As to 'worst snow / ice for 20 years', I and others aren't disputing that. What I'm disputing is that fact that we were reassured (by the council) that the council had adequate supplies to cope with the bad weather!

I notice that they (and many other local councils) were all over the press recently, right up until they suddenly decided that maybe they didn't have enough resources......

Posted by: Jeven Jan 5 2010, 07:57 PM

No win situation for the council sadly. Perhaps it would be best if they ignored the whining idiots at the NWN and spent the money as they felt appropriate, we might not have these problems then.

~~

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 5 2010, 06:20 PM) *
laugh.gif

For those interested you can see where has been gritted by going here

http://www.westberks.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=18886

And clicking on Gritting, then clicking on the Excel spreadsheet.


Very interesting thanks!

~~

QUOTE
While I don't doubt that the routes were gritted, I haven't personally seen a gritter out and about and I spend quite a lot of time on the road!


Perhaps you could ring the council up so that the gritting crew(s) can let you know when and where they are, that way you can follow them around. I mean seriously... I don't see a policecar most days I drive, but that doesn't mean they're not driving about somewhere.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 5 2010, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 5 2010, 07:49 PM) *
You don't half make up some rubbish! We didn't go through the worst snow for 20 years, last year.

If you'd bothered to look you can see that the routes were gritted today.

Crying wolf like this just spoils it for everyone else when there is a real problem.

We had more snow than this in February 2008. I have looked, can't see any grit and WBC have issued a statement about not having enough salt. By pointing out how inept WBC are in a crisis, how am I crying wolf? The snow is there for all to see. The gritters aren't.

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 08:00 PM

QUOTE (Roost @ Jan 5 2010, 07:55 PM) *
While I don't doubt that the routes were gritted, I haven't personally seen a gritter out and about and I spend quite a lot of time on the road!

As to 'worst snow / ice for 20 years', I and others aren't disputing that. What I'm disputing is that fact that we were reassured (by the council) that the council had adequate supplies to cope with the bad weather!

I notice that they (and many other local councils) were all over the press recently, right up until they suddenly decided that maybe they didn't have enough resources......
They probably did have enough supplies to deal with a normal winter.

You seem to be implying that every council should have enough resources kept back to deal with the current situation. Fair enough but shouldn't they then also have the appropriate resources to deal with the worst flooding for 20 years? What about the worst drought for 20 years should it happen this summer?

If so, who's going to pay for all this?
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 5 2010, 08:00 PM) *
We had more snow than this in February 2008. I have looked, can't see any grit and WBC have issued a statement about not having enough salt. By pointing out how inept WBC are in a crisis, how am I crying wolf? The snow is there for all to see. The gritters aren't.
Sorry Strafin, 2008 was in the last 20 years therefore the current conditions are worse, you're just making things up again.

You seemed to have missed the announcement about the delivery of grit that they had too.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 5 2010, 08:02 PM

The taxpayers already are (paying for it). Maybe it's more important to build a pavement and a dangerous junction around the clock tower. Or bribe a cinema operator with half a million.

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (Roost @ Jan 5 2010, 07:55 PM) *
While I don't doubt that the routes were gritted, I haven't personally seen a gritter out and about and I spend quite a lot of time on the road!

As to 'worst snow / ice for 20 years', I and others aren't disputing that. What I'm disputing is that fact that we were reassured (by the council) that the council had adequate supplies to cope with the bad weather!

I notice that they (and many other local councils) were all over the press recently, right up until they suddenly decided that maybe they didn't have enough resources......
They probably did have enough supplies to deal with a normal winter.

You seem to be implying that every council should have enough resources kept back to deal with the current situation. Fair enough but shouldn't they then also have the appropriate resources to deal with the worst flooding for 20 years? What about the worst drought for 20 years should it happen this summer?

If so, who's going to pay for all this?
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 5 2010, 08:00 PM) *
We had more snow than this in February 2008. I have looked, can't see any grit and WBC have issued a statement about not having enough salt. By pointing out how inept WBC are in a crisis, how am I crying wolf? The snow is there for all to see. The gritters aren't.
No we didn't, 2008 was in the last 20 years and the met office are saying this is the worst we've had in this time. Once again you're making things up.

You seem to have missed the announcement about the new delivery of grit too, so yes you're crying wolf. My advice, read up on the facts and listen to the radio before you post on here again.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 5 2010, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 5 2010, 11:40 AM) *
If we are to take Global warming seriously then we need to have more grit and salt as the Winters will be colder and more Continental (if you believe in Climate change...)
Perhaps we drivers should take on more responsibilty if that's the case and ACT like the Continentals then.. That means investing in proper winter tyres rather then relying on the slicks that a great majority of drivers use.

QUOTE (ropey @ Jan 5 2010, 03:39 PM) *
Rarely have felt such anger towards this local authority, during the days of the ice and snow, town centre footpaths were without doubt in an appaling condition even after around 3 days some were still treacherous.
Let's all join hands and fight Mother Nature....... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 5 2010, 08:11 PM) *
Perhaps we drivers should take on more responsibilty if that's the case and ACT like the Continentals then.. That means investing in proper winter tyres rather then relying on the slicks that a great majority of drivers use.
I'd agree with that. If we're going to get colder winters it should be made law that we should have winter tyres fitted, just like in Scandinavian countries.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2010, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 5 2010, 08:11 PM) *
That means investing in proper winter tyres

I've seen a similar post on these boards - was it you? What normal motorist is going to have the facility to change their tyres according to the season?

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 5 2010, 08:15 PM) *
I've seen a similar post on these boards - was it you? What normal motorist is going to have the facility to change their tyres according to the season?
Seems to work OK on the continent

http://www.etyres.co.uk/winter-tyres-law#france

Posted by: Iommi Jan 5 2010, 08:25 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 5 2010, 08:13 PM) *
I'd agree with that. If we're going to get colder winters it should be made law that we should have winter tyres fitted, just like in Scandinavian countries.

Who will pay for all the public services vehicles? wink.gif

What all this suggests then, is that the Council stocked for, say, 3-4 days of snow fall and about 2-3 weeks of near zero, or subzero temperatures then?

Posted by: JeffG Jan 5 2010, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 5 2010, 08:19 PM) *
Seems to work OK on the continent

I stand corrected. I'm sure QwikFit would be delighted if such a law was brought in smile.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 5 2010, 08:47 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 5 2010, 08:27 PM) *
I stand corrected. I'm sure QwikFit would be delighted if such a law was brought in smile.gif
I'm sure they would. It seems the best solution though and it's tried and tested in Europe.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 5 2010, 10:47 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 5 2010, 08:15 PM) *
I've seen a similar post on these boards - was it you? What normal motorist is going to have the facility to change their tyres according to the season?
Yep it was me... Having lived for several years in Germany (when The Greens were in charge and no salt was used on roads .......in winters MUCH more severe than this pathetic effort rolleyes.gif ) when the roads were covered in compacted snow you either chose to buy some winter tyres, used snow chains, or left the car at home. On the spot fines issued by the polizei if you happened to get into trouble and were causing a problem for other road users who WERE complying with the law.

It was TD&H who stated that something would have to change if this was going to be a pattern for winters in the future:
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 5 2010, 11:40 AM) *
No Grit or Salt Left appears to be the problem. If we are to take Global warming seriously then we need to have more grit and salt as the Winters will be colder and more Continental (if you believe in Climate change...)
If that's the case then winter tyres by law has got to be a solution when road conditions dictate.

Of course we could go the whole hog on the Continental Driving thang and also start driving on the right......


Posted by: Iommi Jan 5 2010, 11:27 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 5 2010, 10:47 PM) *
Yep it was me... Having lived for several years in Germany (when The Greens were in charge and no salt was used on roads .......in winters MUCH more severe than this pathetic effort rolleyes.gif )

And possibly why it is more deserving in that country!

On one hand, people 'defend' the strategic level of salt/gritting stock held by the council in extraordinary weather conditions. Then the next moment, those same people suggest the public should be obliged to prepare for it in the same way as countries who ordinarily have much more severe weather (than we do)!

Posted by: spartacus Jan 5 2010, 11:45 PM

Salt is for chips.... NOT for roads....

Posted by: Iommi Jan 5 2010, 11:50 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 5 2010, 11:45 PM) *
Salt is for chips.... NOT for roads....

Fair enough, so long as we are all advised, warned and, maybe, experience a tax discount (through savings in salt/grit stocks), to help everyone finance it. Even some people who work in chip-shops and supermarkets need to drive.

At least this time we have had fair warning about the snow. The last batch seemed to catch everyone out.

The concern next, of course, is what happens if we get a quick thaw? Indeed, what about national gas levels?

Posted by: On the edge Jan 6 2010, 06:22 AM

Much of the debate really centres on the Council's inability to maintain the status quo whatever the conditions. Life ain't like that! Apart from those who are unable to help themselves - should we all (in business AND personal terms) have contingency plans in place so we can cope with extraordinary situations? Salting roads is not the only answer.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 07:35 AM

There is a lot of snow out there today

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 08:11 AM

Yes, what idiot in the council ordered all this snow! Heads should roll!!!

Posted by: part time Jan 6 2010, 08:51 AM

Oh and surprise surprise the schools are shut!!!

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 08:55 AM

QUOTE (part time @ Jan 6 2010, 08:51 AM) *
Oh and surprise surprise the schools are shut!!!

Actually, on this occasion, I don't blame them.

Posted by: Batfink Jan 6 2010, 09:12 AM

Congratulations to the woman who walked in to town this morning from Greenham wearing high heels! Bonus man points for you dear!!!

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 09:17 AM

There's some things that severe weather won't stop.

Posted by: Blake Jan 6 2010, 11:03 AM

Does anyone know what food stocks are like at the supermarkets?

I will need some soonish and will make sure I get a good stockpile.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 11:08 AM

Too late, all sold out.

Don't forget birds also suffer in these conditions.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 6 2010, 11:10 AM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 6 2010, 11:08 AM) *
Too late, all sold out.

Don't forget birds also suffer in these conditions.


I know - I saw one with a particularly short skirt this morning. She must have been freezing!

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (Batfink @ Jan 6 2010, 09:12 AM) *
Congratulations to the woman who walked in to town this morning from Greenham wearing high heels! Bonus man points for you dear!!!



Actually she was on her way home from work wink.gif

Posted by: Batfink Jan 6 2010, 12:22 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 6 2010, 11:10 AM) *
I know - I saw one with a particularly short skirt this morning. She must have been freezing!

I wonder if it was the one I saw in heels?

Food wise, there was an outbreak of "panic buying" (or in shopping as it used to be known) at Tesco's last night! I saw a person with at meals for at least two days in their basket - greedy sods!!!! Wife went to Sainsbury's today and it was pretty well stocked.

Posted by: Exhausted Jan 6 2010, 12:30 PM

Couple of points about some of the posts.
Winters getting worse, Sorry, I thought it was global warming we were concerned about.

Winter tyres are probably a fine thing on the continent but we are an Island with the warm Atlantic keeping us well above the sort of continuous low temperatures that central Europe and the mountainous regions suffer. When it snows here, it's normally all gone a couple of days later, making winter tyres a bit of an overkill.

There seem to be a lot of posters who believe that the gritters haven't been out. So then where has the salt gone, WBC car park ??

The councils are only allowed to keep a certain level of road salt under government guidelines. This council had the maximum holding, I understand, which may be sufficient normally but once every five or six years it all goes a bit pear shaped.

Nobody seems to have considered the ecological damage done by tons of salt washing off the roads and into the system with one coverage, let alone with two or three times the normal amount of gritting being carried out or even more if some people had their way..

I know it's nice to have a scapegoat every time we are inconvenienced so it might as well be WBC as I think they are used to it by now.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 12:53 PM

From the link I posted it seems the snow ploughs are out. I would guess there's too much snow for grit to have any effect.

Posted by: HJD Jan 6 2010, 12:53 PM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 6 2010, 12:20 PM) *
Actually she was on her way home from work wink.gif


Are you trying to tell us something Billie ! wink.gif wink.gif

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 01:05 PM

Billie?

I'm not a girl you know!

Well only at weekends if the pay is right........

Posted by: Batfink Jan 6 2010, 02:13 PM

A brisk walk around town revealed that most shops are closed... and the limited eateries that are open are quickly running out of food!!! Most of the pubs seem to be open though! blink.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 6 2010, 02:14 PM

QUOTE (Batfink @ Jan 6 2010, 02:13 PM) *
A brisk walk around town revealed that most shops are closed... and the limited eateries that are open are quickly running out of food!!! Most of the pubs seem to be open though! blink.gif


I know - A couple of swift ones at lunch was the best way to combat this weather. wink.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 03:24 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 12:53 PM) *
From the link I posted it seems the snow ploughs are out. I would guess there's too much snow for grit to have any effect.

I can't see anything about snow ploughs on your link. Are you sure you're not just deluded about the council brilliance again?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 6 2010, 03:40 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 03:24 PM) *
I can't see anything about snow ploughs on your link. Are you sure you're not just deluded about the council brilliance again?


Come on Strafin. The council are doing a great job. I saw a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow today. laugh.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 03:24 PM) *
I can't see anything about snow ploughs on your link. Are you sure you're not just deluded about the council brilliance again?
No, it's there. Ploughing from 2am this morning.
QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 6 2010, 03:40 PM) *
Come on Strafin. The council are doing a great job. I saw a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow today. laugh.gif
Don't set her off again. Her whole "get back at the council" attitude comes from being unable to put a parking ticket where it could be seen. Now she's saying she can't see anything about snowploughs. I'm noticing a pattern here. laugh.gif

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 05:53 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 6 2010, 03:40 PM) *
The council are doing a great job. I saw a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow today.

Yes, the cinema subsidies got to come from somewhere you know!

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 05:38 PM) *
No, it's there. Ploughing from 2am this morning.Don't set her off again. Her whole "get back at the council" attitude comes from being unable to put a parking ticket where it could be seen. Now she's saying she can't see anything about snowploughs. I'm noticing a pattern here. laugh.gif

I don't have a get back at the council attitude, I have a certain level of disdain for incompetence, especially when I am paying for it. Hopefully there will be more job cuts soon and you'll be included in them. When you're not creaming off a load of taxpayers money, and have to earn some properly maybe you'll be a bit more concerned about where it is spent as well. Having said that if you work at WBC it's unlikely you'd be able to get a job elsewhere, I know if I saw it on a CV there's no way I'd employ the candidate.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 06:06 PM

I see that the ploughing has now been added to the excel spreadsheet, however I haven't seen a snowplough anywhere has anybody else?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 6 2010, 06:27 PM

QUOTE (Exhausted @ Jan 6 2010, 12:30 PM) *
Nobody seems to have considered the ecological damage done by tons of salt washing off the roads and into the system with one coverage, let alone with two or three times the normal amount of gritting being carried out or even more if some people had their way..

I know it's nice to have a scapegoat every time we are inconvenienced so it might as well be WBC as I think they are used to it by now.
Damaging to cars and not the 'Magic Solution to Every Cold Weather Situation' that some people seem to think. But it's certainly having a major effect on the eco-system. Across Berkshire there will have been 1000's of TONNES of salt spread on the roads. That soon makes it's way into the nearest drain and into the rivers and is turning fresh water into salt water... And the grit also washes into the drainage system and either clogs it up or causes silting problems in the rivers further downstream.

Not great in the long run....

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 06:03 PM) *
I don't have a get back at the council attitude, I have a certain level of disdain for incompetence, especially when I am paying for it. Hopefully there will be more job cuts soon and you'll be included in them. When you're not creaming off a load of taxpayers money, and have to earn some properly maybe you'll be a bit more concerned about where it is spent as well. Having said that if you work at WBC it's unlikely you'd be able to get a job elsewhere, I know if I saw it on a CV there's no way I'd employ the candidate.
Pathetic girlie rant.... rolleyes.gif Got the painters in?

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 06:44 PM

Just clarifying my position, I hate the council because I pay them thousands of pounds and don't seem to have gotten anything back, I have lived in other places and not had to deal with anything like what I put up with from WBC. User works there and seems to think that all of my opinions are based on the fact that I once got a parking ticket. Also goading me by calling me a girl is almost certainly to provoke a fiery reaction. If I was a girl incidentally and you were making jokes about having the painters in, I'd probably react in the same way my wife does (when I do it) and actually raise ****.

Posted by: GMR Jan 6 2010, 06:51 PM

Kiln Road hill hasn't been salted and is very dangerous. You'd think one of their priorities would be hills; which are the most dangerous.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 06:51 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 06:03 PM) *
I don't have a get back at the council attitude, I have a certain level of disdain for incompetence, especially when I am paying for it. Hopefully there will be more job cuts soon and you'll be included in them. When you're not creaming off a load of taxpayers money, and have to earn some properly maybe you'll be a bit more concerned about where it is spent as well. Having said that if you work at WBC it's unlikely you'd be able to get a job elsewhere, I know if I saw it on a CV there's no way I'd employ the candidate.
Yes you do. That bitter and spiteful rant is enough proof for all to see.

I notice you've managed to spot the bit about snowploughs in the link I posted, second time around. Best not use words like "incompetence" after committing such a faux pas like that.
QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 06:44 PM) *
Just clarifying my position, I hate the council because I pay them thousands of pounds and don't seem to have gotten anything back, I have lived in other places and not had to deal with anything like what I put up with from WBC. User works there and seems to think that all of my opinions are based on the fact that I once got a parking ticket. Also goading me by calling me a girl is almost certainly to provoke a fiery reaction. If I was a girl incidentally and you were making jokes about having the painters in, I'd probably react in the same way my wife does (when I do it) and actually raise ****.
Ah, the "what's in it for me" attitude we from a few on here. I'm reminded of the "what have the Romans done for us" bit in the Life of Brian.

By the way I've been accused of working for the Police, for the Council, anyone else want to chip in with anything?

Posted by: Rachel Jan 6 2010, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 6 2010, 06:53 PM) *
Yes, the cinema subsidies got to come from somewhere you know!


I do appreciate the hard work put in by many council workers, especially gritter drivers, I really do. I am disappointed that our area (ruralish, granted) has remained virtually impassable, but I suspect that is down to a management decision. There is a grit bin at the top of the hill on our estate which I reported empty last Wednesday (due to some less than considerate people using it to clear their own, private drives) & it hasn't been re-filled. That'll be the shortage maybe?
I was unhappy that my bins weren't collected for 2.5 weeks as highways & byways told me all primary & secondary routes were clear & gritted in the run up to Christmas, & I felt that the decision to cancel collections was uneccessary because of the clear roads. But again, I don't blame the bin men, I guess it wasn't their call?
My job is not vital in my opinion, far more important that I keep my boy safe at home & don't load work onto emergency services by taking risks. So what have I done today? Yep, cleared the path & road in front of my house, as did my neighbour. Now at least people have a fighting chance with a run at the hill, even if we can't grit it. As I dug & swept a walker grumbled that that's what we pay our taxes for & he's right. But we pay for many services which we don't recieve, particularly out in the sticks, that's the way it is, sometimes we get lucky, often we don't. In a socialist society, that's how it goes-reminds me of that advert...."I don't do politics"-any one remember that?!
Stay safe & warm you all smile.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 07:00 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 06:51 PM) *
Yes you do. That bitter and spiteful rant is enough proof for all to see.

I notice you've managed to spot the bit about snowploughs in the link I posted, second time around. Best not use words like "incompetence" after committing such a faux pas like that.

I think the council is full of idiots and I am resentful towards those in charge for allowing it to get so bad, so yes I am spiteful towards WBC. I have never denied this, look back through my posts, I am quite vocal about it. I think missing this shows a level of ineptitude. I think true bitterness is when you resort to calling people "her" when it's not relevant rather than just making your point. Not so long back you were complaining of bullying on these boards and saying how you hate it when people get personal and here you are doing just that.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 6 2010, 07:03 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 6 2010, 03:40 PM) *
Come on Strafin. The council are doing a great job. I saw a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow today. laugh.gif


How intriguing - more details, please. If true, no doubt you could sell the story to the nationals. I wonder if WBC will have it recorded? wink.gif

PS Was that before you went into the pub or after you came out? tongue.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 07:07 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 07:00 PM) *
I think the council is full of idiots and I am resentful towards those in charge for allowing it to get so bad, so yes I am spiteful towards WBC. I have never denied this, look back through my posts, I am quite vocal about it. I think missing this shows a level of ineptitude. I think true bitterness is when you resort to calling people "her" when it's not relevant rather than just making your point. Not so long back you were complaining of bullying on these boards and saying how you hate it when people get personal and here you are doing just that.
Unfortunately your opinion goes against with the official reviews of the council. Perhaps you missed these like you missed the information on ploughing first time round?

I'm not bulling or "getting personal", why do you think I should assume you are male? Statistically speaking you're more likely to be female.
QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 6 2010, 07:03 PM) *
How intriguing - more details, please. If true, no doubt you could sell the story to the nationals. I wonder if WBC will have it recorded? wink.gif
I'm intrigued too, I wonder where and when this was? I'm sure the NWN would be interested.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 07:43 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 07:07 PM) *
why do you think I should assume you are male? Statistically speaking you're more likely to be female.I'm intrigued too, I wonder where and when this was? I'm sure the NWN would be interested.

1. If I go into my member settings I can see who has viewed my profile, and you have prior to your offensive posting.
2. I am sure that the wardens were out because they were last time the snow was, TDH may well have seen it but it is up to whoever received the ticket to publicise it, I doubt TDH knows who that was. I agree that proof that it happened is needed before proof that it didn't though.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 6 2010, 07:46 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 07:07 PM) *
I'm intrigued too, I wonder where and when this was? I'm sure the NWN would be interested.


Something very odd there - if the motor had been abandoned on account of the snow, were the road markings still
visible? What a hoot, anyway no doubt all will be revealed tomorrow.. wink.gif

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 06:03 PM) *
I don't have a get back at the council attitude, I have a certain level of disdain for incompetence, especially when I am paying for it. Hopefully there will be more job cuts soon and you'll be included in them. When you're not creaming off a load of taxpayers money, and have to earn some properly maybe you'll be a bit more concerned about where it is spent as well. Having said that if you work at WBC it's unlikely you'd be able to get a job elsewhere, I know if I saw it on a CV there's no way I'd employ the candidate.



Strafin, are you seriously saying that you would not employ any individual simply because they have worked for WBC at some time past or present?

There are other parts of the above comments I'd also like to question you about, but I'll leave it there for now.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 07:43 PM) *
1. If I go into my member settings I can see who has viewed my profile, and you have prior to your offensive posting.
Oh dear, stop trying to dig yourself out of this one. I can't remember the sex of everyone on here and being referred to as female is certainly not as offensive as your rant about hoping people lose their jobs. You've not come out of this one well (again) and my advice would be to cut your losses leave this thread here before you make it worse for yourself.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 07:56 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 07:51 PM) *
...You've not come out of this one well (again) and my advice would be to cut your losses leave this thread here before you make it worse for yourself.

user23, using this goading technique makes it harder for neutrals to empathise with you. Strafin has a major on about WBC which is clear to see and often lacks veracity, but your sniping is not cleaver and doesn't show you in good light either.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 08:01 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 6 2010, 07:56 PM) *
user23, using this goading technique makes it harder for neutrals to empathise with you. Strafin has a major on about WBC which is clear to see and lacks kudos, but your sniping is not cleaver and doesn't show you in good light either.
This thread has turned from me trying to inform people where is gritted, to threats towards my livelihood.

I've just been told I work for the council and also that I should loose my job thus threatening the stability and financial security of my family by probably the most ignorant person who posts here, how do you expect me to react?

Like ossy, I'm tempted for this to be the last time I try and help anyone here out.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 08:01 PM) *
I've just been told I work for the council and also that I should loose my job thus threatening the stability and financial security of my family by probably the most ignorant person who posts here, how do you expect me to react?

Presumably you work for the council then? tongue.gif I can understand you getting uppity, but all we end up with is a slanging match where no-one covers them self in glory.


*Strolls away gracefully on a a cloud of piety* tongue.gif


PS - Thanks for the link, it does lead to useful information.

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 08:05 PM

Despite all this going on between you and others Strafin, I would appreciate an answer to my question please.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 6 2010, 08:05 PM) *
Presumably you work for the council then? tongue.gif I can understand you getting uppity, but all we end up with is a slanging match where no-one covers them self in glory.
You're right of course, it's just sad when someone who is so ignorant they can't even see a drain or a streetlight outside their house wants you to loose your job in a thread you started in order to try to help everyone out. Not a nice person.

Sorry Bill, last post on this subject.

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 08:21 PM

No need to apologise User23 I would just appreciate the courtesy of an answer to my perfectly civil question, from someone who I know has been logged on here since i first asked it.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 08:21 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 08:13 PM) *
You're right of course, it's just sad when someone who is so ignorant they can't even see a drain or a streetlight outside their house wants you to loose your job in a thread you started in order to try to help everyone out. Sorry, Bill, last post on this subject.

Just in case you missed it, thanks for the link, it has useful information. And yes Bill1, it does seem a rather 'irrational' discrimination policy to me as well! wink.gif

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 6 2010, 08:22 PM

Ah, he's logged off whilst I was typing my last post.

Perhaps I'll be given an answer next time he's on here.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 6 2010, 07:51 PM) *
Strafin, are you seriously saying that you would not employ any individual simply because they have worked for WBC at some time past or present?

Sorry for the delay I had to go and have dinner....

In short probably not, if they worked for the administrative side of the council I would have reservations, especially if they were from the customer service department. It stems from living in Thatcham/Newbury for just about 30 years and dealing with WBC staff for all sorts of things which I have found to be an absolute chore at the best of times. That said if someone was leaving because they hated it, had been there a short time and felt it wasn't for them then maybe. I spent 18 months contesting a council tax bill which was wrong by over £1000, I was right but after all that fighting and down right rudeness from EVERY member of staff I spoke to I was still was not given a proper bill, an apology or any re assurance that it would not happen again. Contrary to what I post on here I am usually very diplomatic and polite and empathise with people in the firing line.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 08:55 PM

There's only one constant in the dialogue with the hundreds of people you must have spoken to at Newbury District Council, West Berkshire Council and Amey West Berkshire over the past 30 years. You.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 6 2010, 09:05 PM

If I was the only one to think it User you would have a point but if you look at all the people who post on here there is a large percentage who are not happy with the council. On the other forums too. Also in the letters page of the NWN. I deal with a lot of people in my current and previous roles in all sorts of different organisations. I hold a personal license for the sale of alcohol, have been a local councillor, and today have been putting in place the infrastructure to deal with any emergency situations arising from the current weather extremities. The only time I seem to get involved in these little tit for tat arguments on these boards are when I factor in a common denominator - you.

Posted by: Andy Jan 6 2010, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 09:05 PM) *
If I was the only one to think it User you would have a point but if you look at all the people who post on here there is a large percentage who are not happy with the council. On the other forums too. Also in the letters page of the NWN. I deal with a lot of people in my current and previous roles in all sorts of different organisations. I hold a personal license for the sale of alcohol, have been a local councillor, and today have been putting in place the infrastructure to deal with any emergency situations arising from the current weather extremities. The only time I seem to get involved in these little tit for tat arguments on these boards are when I factor in a common denominator - you.


A supposed large percentage on this boards is an insignificant percentage of WBC's residents. The majority of people are satisified with the overall service of the council.

Posted by: theoneandonly Jan 6 2010, 09:16 PM

Having seen most of the traffic wardens helping traffic today in and around newbury. I think it is highly unlikly that they did put a parking ticket on a car! Also i think it was a great idea of the council to close going up strawberry hill amd to use west street instead! Although having said that a gritter has only just gone past our house and should not of bothered really! why are we not prepared for things like this its a nightmare!!!

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 09:16 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 09:05 PM) *
..you.
Sorry, that's what GMR used to do when he made a fool of himself, "no, it's not me, it's you", or "no, you are".

Like him you're going on Ignore as you're incapable of a serious debate and as such you're just wasting everyone's time at best and are just plain evil at worst suggesting people lose their jobs because you've been rude to them or you can't see a streetlight or a drain.

Sadly for you, you'll not be wasting my time any more and after this sorry episode perhaps others too.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 6 2010, 09:21 PM

QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 6 2010, 09:11 PM) *
A supposed large percentage on this boards is an insignificant percentage of WBC's residents. The majority of people are satisified with the overall service of the council.


Yes, and it seems all sorts want to have a go at WBC - there's one plonker on here, for instance, having a go at parking wardens when he can't even drive a car. Dear oh, dear..

Posted by: Darren Jan 6 2010, 09:31 PM

QUOTE (theoneandonly @ Jan 6 2010, 09:16 PM) *
why are we not prepared for things like this its a nightmare!!!


Without going back to page 1, we are prepared for snow, based on what we would normally get in a Oceanic Climate (warm summers, cool winters and plentiful precipitation throughout the year).

What we are not prepared for is a Continental Climate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_climate) and the levels of snow it generates. At least not with out spending huge amounts of equipment that will sit idle. A quick search shows a simple towed grit spreader costs £5000 + VAT. I haven't found the cost of a all-singing/dancing gritter/plough

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 09:42 PM

Two winters isn't much to go on I'd admit, but it looks like we could be heading towards a continental climate.

If so in my view it's time for no gritting and mandatory snow tyres during the winter.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 6 2010, 09:45 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 6 2010, 09:42 PM) *
Two winters isn't much to go on I'd admit, but it looks like we could be heading towards a continental climate. If so in my view it's time for no gritting and mandatory snow tyres during the winter.

Bare in mind that only roughly 50% of the continent have mandatory tyre requirements. The problem at the moment, as I see it, is sustained cold rather than the amount of snow.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 6 2010, 09:45 PM) *
Bare in mind that only roughly 50% of the continent have mandatory tyre requirements. The problem at the moment, as I see it, is sustained cold rather than the amount of snow.
True, though the cold leads to ice.

As far as I'm aware you can't actually get snow tyres in many of the popular garages at the moment, perhaps the first step is for them to stock the tyres?

Posted by: Darren Jan 6 2010, 09:51 PM

Disagree there. A true continental climate would mean snow arriving in November and lasting right through to April or even May. All we ever get is relatively short periods of moderate snow interspersed with milder periods with rain.

Unusually, we currently have a high pressure system much further west than normal and it's blocking the usual Atlantic frontal systems we should get. Where these warm fronts meet the cold air mass, it snows.

Posted by: Darren Jan 6 2010, 09:56 PM

http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/techinfo/wintertyres.asp

Winter tyres for my car are about £65 each upwards, plus the cost of extra wheels to fit them on.

Snow chains or socks are a far more cost effective solutions for our climate.

Posted by: user23 Jan 6 2010, 09:57 PM

QUOTE (Darren @ Jan 6 2010, 09:56 PM) *
http://www.tyres-online.co.uk/techinfo/wintertyres.asp

Winter tyres for my car are about £65 each upwards, plus the cost of extra wheels to fit them on.

Snow chains or socks are a far more cost effective solutions for our climate.
Hadn't thought of that and of course you can fit snow chains yourself.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 7 2010, 08:43 AM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 6 2010, 09:21 PM) *
Yes, and it seems all sorts want to have a go at WBC - there's one plonker on here, for instance, having a go at parking wardens when he can't even drive a car. Dear oh, dear..


Oh Hugh. I love you too. Big hugs and kisses from TDH. I think you may be sad and alone at this time of year. After all who would put up with you?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 7 2010, 01:48 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 08:40 PM) *
In short probably not, if they worked for the administrative side of the council I would have reservations, especially if they were from the customer service department. It stems from living in Thatcham/Newbury for just about 30 years and dealing with WBC staff for all sorts of things which I have found to be an absolute chore at the best of times. That said if someone was leaving because they hated it, had been there a short time and felt it wasn't for them then maybe. I spent 18 months contesting a council tax bill which was wrong by over £1000, I was right but after all that fighting and down right rudeness from EVERY member of staff I spoke to I was still was not given a proper bill, an apology or any re assurance that it would not happen again. Contrary to what I post on here I am usually very diplomatic and polite and empathise with people in the firing line.
hmmmm... <thinks about earlier comment> Nah, I'll stick with my earlier 'Pathetic'
Do you work in HR by any chance? In a management position then? Would you use a similar selection technique if you received a job application from a black, disabled, lesbian person who previously worked for the Council?? rolleyes.gif

QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 6 2010, 09:11 PM) *
A supposed large percentage on this boards is an insignificant percentage of WBC's residents. The majority of people are satisified with the overall service of the council.
Agreed. The 'Silent Majority' are called that for a reason...... Normally there's more of them than the 'Vocal Minority' .... and there only a TINY minority of contributors to this forum in comparison to town population...

Posted by: spartacus Jan 7 2010, 02:02 PM

BTW..(returning for a moment to the thread topic.. rolleyes.gif ) I understand that some of the latest stock of road salt that WBC have acquired is not the standard stuff which has been mixed with molasses. The stuff they're spreading now is just your ordinary white salt with no pre-mix. There may be grit mixed while stocks lasts but otherwise it may look like nothing has been spread on the road, even when a gritter has just gone past.


Anyway...back to some personal digs....

Posted by: Iommi Jan 7 2010, 02:04 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 7 2010, 01:48 PM) *
Agreed. The 'Silent Majority' are called that for a reason...... Normally there's more of them than the 'Vocal Minority' .... and there only a TINY minority of contributors to this forum in comparison to town population...

Reticence should not be seen as an endorsement of anything! Just because people don't post, or say anything, doesn't automatically mean they are satisfied.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 7 2010, 03:24 PM

QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 7 2010, 01:48 PM) *
hmmmm... <thinks about earlier comment> Nah, I'll stick with my earlier 'Pathetic'
Do you work in HR by any chance? In a management position then? Would you use a similar selection technique if you received a job application from a black, disabled, lesbian person who previously worked for the Council?? rolleyes.gif

Agreed. The 'Silent Majority' are called that for a reason...... Normally there's more of them than the 'Vocal Minority' .... and there only a TINY minority of contributors to this forum in comparison to town population...

1. I'm not likely to answer your questions is you start them by calling me pathetic.
2. I cited three sources of comments from local residents because you can't measure silence. Of the places I stated if you look, there is more dissatisfied than satisfied remarks.

Posted by: Jayjay Jan 7 2010, 06:30 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 6 2010, 08:40 PM) *
Sorry for the delay I had to go and have dinner....

In short probably not, if they worked for the administrative side of the council I would have reservations, especially if they were from the customer service department. It stems from living in Thatcham/Newbury for just about 30 years and dealing with WBC staff for all sorts of things which I have found to be an absolute chore at the best of times. That said if someone was leaving because they hated it, had been there a short time and felt it wasn't for them then maybe. I spent 18 months contesting a council tax bill which was wrong by over £1000, I was right but after all that fighting and down right rudeness from EVERY member of staff I spoke to I was still was not given a proper bill, an apology or any re assurance that it would not happen again. Contrary to what I post on here I am usually very diplomatic and polite and empathise with people in the firing line.


In todays climate you take jobs that you may hate and often have to stay for a long time. Most of the admin side of the Council would be back office and never see a customer.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 7 2010, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 7 2010, 08:43 AM) *
Oh Hugh. I love you too. Big hugs and kisses from TDH. I think you may be sad and alone at this time of year. After all who would put up with you?

Very touching, I'm sure, but what are all of us to make of your claim to have seen a a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow yesterday?

Posted by: user23 Jan 7 2010, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 7 2010, 07:42 PM) *
Very touching, I'm sure, but what are all of us to make of your claim to have seen a a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow yesterday?
It all seems to have gone quiet after you asked him where and when this was.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 7 2010, 10:10 PM

Newbury station have done quite well - platforms reasonably clear. Basingstoke, Reading, Reading West dreadful. Nevertheless, the trains were running so FGW have at least made an effort

Posted by: Rupert Jan 8 2010, 12:21 AM

tongue.gif tongue.gif Helped myself to salt from the bin outside Council Offices!!
I need to get in and out of my property and make the path safe outside my house.
Plenty left in the bin, go help yourselves!!

Posted by: santolina Jan 8 2010, 12:32 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Dec 23 2009, 06:22 PM) *
This might be of interest to everyone who posted in the recent snow related threads.

http://ww2.westberks.gov.uk/InternetMapping/Map.aspx?tool=cn&x=447236&y=166797&scale=10&size=large&layers=8.6.9.57&opencat=3&import=&report=&daterange=&uprn=&qlayer=&qfield=&qin=&join=


This definitely needs updating, as they haven't gritted at all into Hermitage and towards Yattendon. angry.gif

Posted by: noobree Jan 8 2010, 05:57 AM

Forums like this really do bring out the worst in people, don't they? We Brits were once famous for the Dunkirk spirit. Anyone judging the British character based on the (majority?) of posts here might conclude that the Aussies are right when they call us whinging Poms.

Luckily the real world isn't like this at all. While many posters here whine on (some of the serious whiners have hundreds and even thousands of posts to their 'credit', I see - get a life, people!) I've come across numerous examples of true community spirit over the last few days.

Re. the endless whining about West Berks Council, there's good and bad in all organisations. In my experience I have far more bad experiences with useless private sector organisations: garages that try to rip me off, badly run supermarkets, useless airlines, endless waiting on awful oxymoronic 'customer service lines', the pathetic salt suppliers who have failed to meet their customers' demand (and had to be ordered to give local authorities priority over private sector companies, for feck's sake!). And don't even mention the banks!

Some people are using the cloak of anonymity to vent their neuroses about 'the powers that be'. Fair enough, but before judging the whining Newbrarians too harshly we must remember that one in four of the population will seek treatment for mental illness at some point in their lives.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 8 2010, 08:39 AM

At least in the private sector, one often has choice. The only real issue I have with our council is their spending on projects I would see as being almost grandiose. I certainly don't blame them for there being difficulties due to the snow and ice. This is a nationwide issue and WBC's stocks were as high as they were permitted. I did think, however, that the first snow we had just before Christmas, that there was some 'under salting', but main routes are OK at the moment.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 8 2010, 08:39 AM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 7 2010, 07:42 PM) *
Very touching, I'm sure, but what are all of us to make of your claim to have seen a a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow yesterday?


I would answer your question Hugh but I really don't have to justify what I saw with my two eyes to a twit like you. So in summary if you were on fire I would not urinate on you to put you out.

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 8 2010, 08:48 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 8 2010, 08:39 AM) *
I would answer your question Hugh but I really don't have to justify what I saw with my two eyes to a twit like you. So in summary if you were on fire I would not urinate on you to put you out.


Certainly you don't have to justify what you claim to have seen to me but, if you wish anyone else on here to believe your stories, maybe you should provide some details otherwise your credibility may be seen to be somewhat lacking. Just say when and where you saw this alleged incident take place, please laugh.gif

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 8 2010, 09:02 AM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 8 2010, 08:48 AM) *
Certainly you don't have to justify what you claim to have seen to me but, if you wish anyone else on here to believe your stories, maybe you should provide some details otherwise your credibility may be seen to be somewhat lacking. Just say when and where you saw this alleged incident take place, please laugh.gif


As I said - I don't care Hugh what you think or actually what a lot of the users think on this forum anymore after the rubbish and personal attackes that I have had to put up with on this forum recently. I'll say what I like when I like and whether people choose to believe me is no longer important to me. Especially eejits like you. tongue.gif - Anyway I'm working now so won't be posting. Enjoy the rest of your worthless day. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Nelly Jan 8 2010, 09:31 AM

I have just seen a tractor with a small trailer of grit/salt for the paths in Newbury high street. Then I see a whole truck of the same in the new Council building in West Street and they are clearing and salting the WHOLE car park at the back of the building, surely this cannot be a priority?

Posted by: ropey Jan 8 2010, 09:59 AM

What a pity that all people can think of regarding clearing their paths is about not being sued. Being sued is incredibly rare and I still have faith that no judge would award against an active citizen for simply doing an act of kindness in their street. SO never mind worrying about being sued, have a good moan at the council for their very poor emergency planning, very poor gritting regime, very public protection policy and very poor attitude to a problem that should be a number one priority, all hands to the deck, perhaps they will now realise their folly of employing 20 civil enforcement officers and employ some labour to deal with these type of problems. If any one should be sued it is this council for their neglect of public safety. How many broken hips so far I wonder ?

People, and pavement first.....and quick

Posted by: Rupert Jan 8 2010, 10:44 AM

QUOTE (Nelly @ Jan 8 2010, 09:31 AM) *
I have just seen a tractor with a small trailer of grit/salt for the paths in Newbury high street. Then I see a whole truck of the same in the new Council building in West Street and they are clearing and salting the WHOLE car park at the back of the building, surely this cannot be a priority?


They give themselves priority!! Must not get sued if anyone slips on their piece of land!! Sod the rest of us just trying to get out of our homes!!
They have thousands in 106 money untouched, employ some Temps to clear the paths!!

Posted by: Jeven Jan 8 2010, 11:39 AM

QUOTE (Nelly @ Jan 8 2010, 09:31 AM) *
I have just seen a tractor with a small trailer of grit/salt for the paths in Newbury high street. Then I see a whole truck of the same in the new Council building in West Street and they are clearing and salting the WHOLE car park at the back of the building, surely this cannot be a priority?


Was there a WBC logo on it? I would have thought they'd have used a private company to do their land as they should be using their own vehicles to clear public roads, not their own car parks. I certainly hope they have the common sense not to use their own vehicles to do their land...

Posted by: Jayjay Jan 8 2010, 12:18 PM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 8 2010, 12:21 AM) *
tongue.gif tongue.gif Helped myself to salt from the bin outside Council Offices!!
I need to get in and out of my property and make the path safe outside my house.
Plenty left in the bin, go help yourselves!!


I take it then you have been 'out of your property' for four days since the last snow? wink.gif

Posted by: Iommi Jan 8 2010, 12:52 PM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 8 2010, 10:44 AM) *
They have thousands in 106 money untouched, employ some Temps to clear the paths!!

106 can't be used for clearing snow and ice.

Posted by: Andy Jan 8 2010, 01:02 PM

QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 8 2010, 12:52 PM) *
106 can't be used for clearing snow and ice.


It just backs up Noobree's comment, there too many whingers posting uninformed comments

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 8 2010, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 8 2010, 12:21 AM) *
tongue.gif tongue.gif Helped myself to salt from the bin outside Council Offices!!
I need to get in and out of my property and make the path safe outside my house.
Plenty left in the bin, go help yourselves!!



Then you are a thief!

Also encouraging others I see. angry.gif

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 8 2010, 01:06 PM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 8 2010, 10:44 AM) *
They give themselves priority!! Must not get sued if anyone slips on their piece of land!! Sod the rest of us just trying to get out of our homes!!
They have thousands in 106 money untouched, employ some Temps to clear the paths!!



QUOTE (Iommi @ Jan 8 2010, 12:52 PM) *
106 can't be used for clearing snow and ice.



QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 8 2010, 01:02 PM) *
It just backs up Noobree's comment, there too many whingers posting uninformed comments


Oh and an ignorant thief at that!

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 8 2010, 01:15 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 8 2010, 08:39 AM) *
I would answer your question Hugh but I really don't have to justify what I saw with my two eyes to a twit like you. So in summary if you were on fire I would not urinate on you to put you out.



QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 8 2010, 09:02 AM) *
As I said - I don't care Hugh what you think or actually what a lot of the users think on this forum anymore after the rubbish and personal attackes that I have had to put up with on this forum recently. I'll say what I like when I like and whether people choose to believe me is no longer important to me. Especially eejits like you. tongue.gif - Anyway I'm working now so won't be posting. Enjoy the rest of your worthless day. rolleyes.gif



TD&H

Do you really have to be so rude to Hugh?

I and I'm sure many others would also like to know where and when the alleged ticketing took place as quite frankly I dont believe you.

Posted by: Exhausted Jan 8 2010, 01:47 PM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 8 2010, 01:15 PM) *
I and I'm sure many others would also like to know where and when the alleged ticketing took place as quite frankly I dont believe you.


Believe it or not, that's what he's paid for. The signs are still visible but unless the road markings are visible, it will be a waste of time issuing the ticket anyway as the council would probably have to revoke the penalty.
I'm not sure that within their job description will be a clause which allows them to assist stranded motorists but if they are just walking the streets, then they might just as well be pulled in.

Posted by: Nelly Jan 8 2010, 02:01 PM

It was just a normal yellow flat bed lorry, the car park is now lovely and clear with all of 4 cars in it, shame they did not go around to the front of the building and do the pavements leading up to the building too!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 8 2010, 03:40 PM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 8 2010, 01:15 PM) *
TD&H

Do you really have to be so rude to Hugh?

I and I'm sure many others would also like to know where and when the alleged ticketing took place as quite frankly I dont believe you.


Hi Bill1 - Good. believe me if you like, believe me if you don't. I'm not going to be rude to you as I have respect for you. I don't have respect for Hugh and for that reason I would not ever respond to any of his vitrolic attacks any more. If he respcted me and were 'polite' I may have had a different atttiude but I don't really give a s**t anymore about this forum.

P. By the way Hugh I have been at work since 5.30am and deserve my break to type this. So do one!

Posted by: Jeven Jan 8 2010, 04:57 PM

QUOTE (Exhausted @ Jan 8 2010, 01:47 PM) *
Believe it or not, that's what he's paid for. The signs are still visible but unless the road markings are visible, it will be a waste of time issuing the ticket anyway as the council would probably have to revoke the penalty.
I'm not sure that within their job description will be a clause which allows them to assist stranded motorists but if they are just walking the streets, then they might just as well be pulled in.


I believe that they have told to be much more lenient over Christmas and during this weather and I doubt they'll do anyone unless they appear to be intentionally taking the preverbial. I've also seen a few helping direct traffic, especially areas with inclines etc.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 8 2010, 05:46 PM

A colleague of mine went 'a over t' just before lunch time staggering from the station. A Warden crossed the street, helped him up and found the bits from his mobile which had come apart - I'm sure anyone else would have done the same, but its nice to know they are human!

Posted by: user23 Jan 8 2010, 05:56 PM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 8 2010, 08:39 AM) *
I would answer your question Hugh but I really don't have to justify what I saw with my two eyes to a twit like you. So in summary if you were on fire I would not urinate on you to put you out.
How rude, he's only asked for details about your questionable claim.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 8 2010, 06:20 PM

QUOTE (Jeven @ Jan 8 2010, 04:57 PM) *
I've also seen a few helping direct traffic, especially areas with inclines etc.


I saw one just before Christmas directing traffic away from the Kennet Centre multi-storey; although CEOs have no more authority than you or I to direct traffic.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 8 2010, 07:18 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Jan 8 2010, 06:20 PM) *
I saw one just before Christmas directing traffic away from the Kennet Centre multi-storey; although CEOs have no more authority than you or I to direct traffic.


Which was just being helpful - so what if they have no authority. Presumably anyone who decided they weren't going to be 'bossed about' just ended up with a pointless journey into a full car park! So in reality a good use of time - arguably freeing up Police to 'catch criminals' and not 'ticketing innocent motorists'. Sorry to be a kill joy - but isn't that what we've been asking for?

Posted by: JeffG Jan 8 2010, 07:25 PM

I can't help thinking that with all the extra salt going down, it must be doing tremendous damage to the environment. Does anyone know what is done to alleviate this? Or does mother nature have ways of dealing with it?

Posted by: Strafin Jan 8 2010, 08:30 PM

QUOTE (JeffG @ Jan 8 2010, 07:25 PM) *
I can't help thinking that with all the extra salt going down, it must be doing tremendous damage to the environment. Does anyone know what is done to alleviate this? Or does mother nature have ways of dealing with it?

Does anyone else care? I'm sure that the damage done by the salt, if any, is negligable against the amount of pollution from China and America, the devastation of the rainforests in the Amazon and the constant increase in the use of combustion engines across all walks of life. I am slightly curious as to how mother nature deals with it though.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 8 2010, 08:37 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 8 2010, 08:30 PM) *
Does anyone else care? I'm sure that the damage done by the salt, if any, is negligable against the amount of pollution from China and America, the devastation of the rainforests in the Amazon and the constant increase in the use of combustion engines across all walks of life. I am slightly curious as to how mother nature deals with it though.


If you stop to consider al the cr*p that is put onto our roads (salt, rubber, spilt fuel, oil, etc.) is it not a triumph for Mother Nature that grass (and weeds) can grow so profusely on verges and central reservations?

Posted by: Strafin Jan 8 2010, 08:39 PM

Aha, kind of like evolution?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 8 2010, 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 8 2010, 08:30 PM) *
I'm sure that the damage done by the salt, if any, is negligable against the amount of pollution from China and America, the devastation of the rainforests in the Amazon and the constant increase in the use of combustion engines across all walks of life.
On a global scale, the salt spread with gay abandon (and at enormous public insistence) along the length of the A4 is negligible.

But on a local level?

Despite common perception, a few thousands of tonnes of rock salt have been spread about in the past weeks and this will make it's way into river courses and areas where it just isn't meant to be. An overload of salt can put such a strain on native species that hardier invasive plants and animals take over. Research indicates that excess salt changes stream chemistry, causing certain minerals to leach out of soils. At high enough concentrations, salt can increase the acidity of water, causing some of the same negative effects as acid rain.

Road salt also attracts deer and other large animals to roadsides, (te lick road clean wi' tongue) which could increase chances of collisions with vehicles..... and let's not forget the aversion that snails (and slugs) have to salt.... rolleyes.gif
We could be causing the demise of the Desmoulin's whorl snail Vertigo moulinsiana which so greatly impacted on the route for the Newbury bypass all those years ago........

Posted by: Rupert Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 8 2010, 01:06 PM) *
Oh and an ignorant thief at that!

I am not a thief, the Council are for taking my money and not providing services.
As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money (the more you pay the more you are guaranteed to get your own way). Why cant it be used to employ Temporary workers to clear the paths? There are many unemployed who would be glad of a weeks work, why cant the Council help them out?

Posted by: Jeven Jan 9 2010, 03:42 AM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM) *
I am not a thief, the Council are for taking my money and not providing services.
As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money (the more you pay the more you are guaranteed to get your own way). Why cant it be used to employ Temporary workers to clear the paths? There are many unemployed who would be glad of a weeks work, why cant the Council help them out?


I'm not sure that argument would work out so well. If you want to dispute the service you have recieved then you can do so in a civil court, just as if this was a private company being discussed. You don't just take something.

Furthermore if you feel they are negleting your road / route then why don't you send them a proposal of the road / route you want included in the clearing and gritting procedure in future. You should also make sure to include why this will benefit the larger population (who also pay their taxes), because obviously they can't justify it if the route is only used by the people who live down it.

Posted by: Jayjay Jan 9 2010, 09:10 AM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM) *
I am not a thief, the Council are for taking my money and not providing services.
As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money (the more you pay the more you are guaranteed to get your own way). Why cant it be used to employ Temporary workers to clear the paths? There are many unemployed who would be glad of a weeks work, why cant the Council help them out?


So would you take a dinner out of the meals on wheels van? Same principal. Your arguement was you needed to get out of your drive and road which is why you took it. As I pointed out in an earlier post you must be able to get out to visit the town centre and pilfer the salt bin. BTW did you do your elderly neighbours drive, or were you me me me?

Posted by: Darren Jan 9 2010, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM) *
I am not a thief, the Council are for taking my money and not providing services.
As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money (the more you pay the more you are guaranteed to get your own way). Why cant it be used to employ Temporary workers to clear the paths? There are many unemployed who would be glad of a weeks work, why cant the Council help them out?


Unemployed get benefits of one level or another. It should be a requirement that they do it to keep receiving benefits.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 9 2010, 10:22 AM

Well done Rupert, you can't win on here can you? Firstly people are saying we should grit the roads and pavements outside our houses, now you're getting slated for it!

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 9 2010, 10:50 AM

QUOTE (TallDarkAndHandsome @ Jan 6 2010, 03:40 PM) *
Come on Strafin. The council are doing a great job. I saw a traffic warden ticketing a car that had obviously become stuck in the snow today. laugh.gif



I would believe that - they also ticket people parked in an allegedly "free" car park.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=12000

Posted by: Iommi Jan 9 2010, 10:58 AM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM) *
I am not a thief, the Council are for taking my money and not providing services. As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money (the more you pay the more you are guaranteed to get your own way). Why cant it be used to employ Temporary workers to clear the paths? There are many unemployed who would be glad of a weeks work, why cant the Council help them out?

I understand that 106 money is agreed between the council and developer to mitigate the impact of a development, by help paying for infrastructure improvements. If the council go on to use this money elsewhere, it could be argued by the developer that he had paid more than he needed to. There have been cases of where developers have taken councils to court and won a rebate. 106 money isn't money available to the council to do with it as it pleases. Although, some section 106 money can be used on other projects by agreement.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 9 2010, 11:00 AM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 12:25 AM) *
As for 106 money, which to a layman seems to be bribe money

Not quite. A layman (i.e. most people) would not have a clue what "106 money" meant. (Yes, I did look it up.)

Posted by: user23 Jan 9 2010, 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Jayjay @ Jan 9 2010, 09:10 AM) *
So would you take a dinner out of the meals on wheels van? Same principal. Your arguement was you needed to get out of your drive and road which is why you took it. As I pointed out in an earlier post you must be able to get out to visit the town centre and pilfer the salt bin. BTW did you do your elderly neighbours drive, or were you me me me?
As you suggest it's stealing. I'd like to see him try and justify his point with meals on wheels,

"The Council are for taking my money and not providing services like free meals for me like they do to others. That's why I stole some elderly lady's dinner".

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 9 2010, 10:50 AM) *
I would believe that - they also ticket people parked in an allegedly "free" car park.

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/News/Article.aspx?articleID=12000
Free for three hours if you display a ticket properly, from reading that article. What's to stop people parking there all day otherwise?

If this happened to me I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be so embarrassed I couldn't read simple instructions that I wouldn't mention it to anyone.

Posted by: Iommi Jan 9 2010, 11:53 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 9 2010, 11:26 AM) *
If this happened to me I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be so embarrassed I couldn't read simple instructions that I wouldn't mention it to anyone.

So what are you hiding lately then? tongue.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jan 9 2010, 01:05 PM

If I was starving and so skint that I couldn't get my own food, I'd steal off the council if they weren't willing to provide it.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 9 2010, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 9 2010, 11:26 AM) *
Free for three hours if you display a ticket properly, from reading that article. What's to stop people parking there all day otherwise?

A standard way (one used by quite literally thousands of car parks), is for the warden who is there anyway, (must be to be doling out tickets; to note the reg numbers of the cars as he is going round checking on a hand held computer and it alerts him or her of when their 3 hours is up. I have been to car parks where the ticket system is operated though and not had a problem, when I was a rep though I went to a lot so was used to checking, if I just went shopping twice a week I probably wouldn't be so vigilant.

Posted by: Jayjay Jan 9 2010, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 9 2010, 01:05 PM) *
If I was starving and so skint that I couldn't get my own food, I'd steal off the council if they weren't willing to provide it.


Fair enough, if you were starving I would support you on that. He took the salt to get out of his drive/road. He obviously could get out as he took the salt from the Council offices (unless he lives there). To use your analogy this is like feeling a bit peckish and taking the dinner. Notice he did not post reply to my query about helping others in his road.

Posted by: Rupert Jan 9 2010, 06:26 PM

QUOTE (Jayjay @ Jan 9 2010, 09:10 AM) *
So would you take a dinner out of the meals on wheels van? Same principal. Your arguement was you needed to get out of your drive and road which is why you took it. As I pointed out in an earlier post you must be able to get out to visit the town centre and pilfer the salt bin. BTW did you do your elderly neighbours drive, or were you me me me?

No I would not take meals out of vans, have you tried them? My Mother said they tasted like cardboard. Yes I have cleared my neighbours path with the small amount of salt I was able to carry.

Posted by: Bill1 Jan 9 2010, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 8 2010, 12:21 AM) *
tongue.gif tongue.gif Helped myself to salt from the bin outside Council Offices!!
I need to get in and out of my property and make the path safe outside my house.
Plenty left in the bin, go help yourselves!!



QUOTE (Rupert @ Jan 9 2010, 06:26 PM) *
Yes I have cleared my neighbours path with the small amount of salt I was able to carry.



A slightly more contrite post than your original Rupert?

Posted by: Iommi Jan 9 2010, 07:38 PM

QUOTE (Bill1 @ Jan 9 2010, 07:17 PM) *
A slightly more contrite post than your original Rupert?

And you expect his reply to be as measured? wink.gif Let's all go down the pub, get jarred and fight it out eh? tongue.gif

Posted by: gizmo Jan 9 2010, 10:47 PM

Saw a gritter going up the Andover Road on Thursday, but no grit coming out of it, also saw one turn right out of Pound Street and it ran out of grit by Fair close. The Railway bridge on bartholomew street was gritted when we had the snow before Christmas, but rather than spreading it out, it looked like they had just dumped shovel loads in piles.

I can't believe the amount of idiots in Newbury, saw a bloke walking on the path with his mobile glued to his ear, oblivious to his young child was walking in the road just before a blind corner, (which some cars tend to take at speed) even if a driver had seen the child it wouldn't have been able to stop.

Walked to Wash Common on Wednesday and found the worst bit to walk was the Andover Road, not because of the hill, but because of the salt residue on the pavements thrown there by the car tyres.

I saw a traffic warden checking cars on a side road off Bartholomew Street on Wednesday around 4pm, can't say if he actually ticketed anyone. But a car in a short stay/parking permit space had 5 inches of snow on it, so it had obviously been there since the snow on Tuesday/Wednesday.

Also as a receiver of job seekers allowance, yes I get benefits of one level or another, and some unemployed would be grateful of a couple of days work. But the hassle of organising your housing benefit claim and JSA for earning a small amount for a few days work takes weeks to sort, and this is only my second time unemployed in 19 years, but did temp jobs the first time round and found it a nightmare with the Council and Job Centre.





Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 01:33 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 9 2010, 11:26 AM) *
Free for three hours if you display a ticket properly, from reading that article. What's to stop people parking there all day otherwise?

If this happened to me I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be so embarrassed I couldn't read simple instructions that I wouldn't mention it to anyone.


They were out there picking on people who had inadvertently omitted to read the much smaller ticketing instructions and were easy pickings for over zealous wardens and you bloody-well know it! angry.gif

Posted by: Strafin Jan 10 2010, 02:34 PM

I think you need a sense of humility to have a sense of embarrassment. I don't think User has that.

Posted by: Darren Jan 10 2010, 03:01 PM

Looks like we might be getting some relief.

Been outside and there is a definite thaw taking place.

Posted by: user23 Jan 10 2010, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 01:33 PM) *
They were out there picking on people who had inadvertently omitted to read the much smaller ticketing instructions and were easy pickings for over zealous wardens and you bloody-well know it!
For "inadvertently omitted to read" read "ignored" and you'd probably have it right.

What's this got to do with salt routes anyway?

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 07:15 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 10 2010, 05:26 PM) *
For "inadvertently omitted to read" read "ignored" and you'd probably have it right.

What's this got to do with salt routes anyway?


Mr. Bloody perfect!

I suppose you never make errors User? laugh.gif

This was just blatant cashing in on people's vulnerability.

Don't know what it has to do with salt routes but I just saw the post that highlighted the way that people are being ticketed for parking.
Another example of cashing in on people's vulnerability was the observation, on this thread, of someone being booked because their car was stuck in the snow, which was questioned by yourself, and I was saying that if someone can be booked for parking in a "Free" car park then I could also believe that this would happen.

Phew, that was a long sentence!

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 10 2010, 07:54 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 07:15 PM) *
Another example of cashing in on people's vulnerability was the observation, on this thread, of someone being booked because their car was stuck in the snow, which was questioned by yourself, and I was saying that if someone can be booked for parking in a "Free" car park then I could also believe that this would happen.


So how long do you reckon before the driver of this mystery car comes forward and complains bitterly to the press - also, how do you reckon the paperwork was affixed to the windscreen if the car had been abandoned in the snow, to say nothing of any road markings being covered in snow? You really think they are just (bearing in mind this incident was alleged to have been witnessed less than 24hrs after the heavy snowfall) going to pay up and say 'It's a fair cop, guv?'

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 08:04 PM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 10 2010, 07:54 PM) *
So how long do you reckon before the driver of this car comes forward and complains bitterly to the press - also, how do you reckon the paperwork was affixed to the windscreen if the car had been abandoned in the snow, to say nothing of any road markings being covered in snow? You really think they are just (bearing in mind this incident was alleged to have been witnessed less than 24hrs after the heavy snowfall) going to pay up and say 'It's a fair cop, guv?'


http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1241766/150-frozen-car-Recovery-firm-tows-away-vehicles-abandoned-night-charges-drivers.html

As for "It's a fair cop Guv" you have no alternative but to pay up unless you want to go to court and pay even more!

Posted by: user23 Jan 10 2010, 08:08 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 07:15 PM) *
Mr. Bloody perfect!

I suppose you never make errors User? laugh.gif

This was just blatant cashing in on people's vulnerability.
Of course I'm not perfect, I'll say again if this happened to me I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be so embarrassed I couldn't read simple instructions that I wouldn't mention it to anyone. The only vulnerable people here are those that can't read not those that can't be bothered to read

What's this got to do with salt routes?

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 08:10 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:08 PM) *
Of course I'm not perfect, I'll say again if this happened to me I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be so embarrassed I couldn't read simple instructions that I wouldn't mention it to anyone.

The only vulnerable people here are those that can't read.

What's this got to do with salt routes?


Now you're picking on those unfortunate enough to not be able to read.

So you don't think this was blatant cashing in then?

Those who omit to read instructions should be punished for not doing so?

Posted by: Strafin Jan 10 2010, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:08 PM) *
The only vulnerable people here are those that can't read

And to h3ll with them right?

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 10 2010, 08:13 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:04 PM) *
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1241766/150-frozen-car-Recovery-firm-tows-away-vehicles-abandoned-night-charges-drivers.html

As for "It's a fair cop Guv" you have no alternative but to pay up unless you want to go to court and pay even more!


Let's wait until we get somebody howling to the local and national press, shall we? Surely it costs nothing to complain to them, does it?

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 08:17 PM

OK end of subject from me.

Just watch out for signs that say "Free Parking"!!

Back to "Salt Routes"

Posted by: user23 Jan 10 2010, 08:17 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:10 PM) *
Now you're picking on those unfortunate enough to not be able to read.

So you don't think this was blatant cashing in then?

Those who omit to read instructions should be punished for not doing so?
Not really sure what you're getting at here, those that can't read should be subject to a different set of by-laws to those that can?

Seems a bit bizarre to me.

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:17 PM) *
Not really sure what you're getting at here, those that can't read should be subject to a different set of by-laws to those that can?

Seems a bit bizarre to me.


No of course not.

Just that you were saying you should be "embarrassed" if you can't read!

Posted by: Hugh Saskin Jan 10 2010, 08:22 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:17 PM) *
OK end of subject from me.

Just watch out for signs that say "Free Parking"!!

Back to "Salt Routes"


Fair enough!

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 08:26 PM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 10 2010, 08:22 PM) *
Fair enough!



My road hasn't been bloody salted even though it is on a "Salt Route"

Cant the council read a simple map?? How embarrassing. laugh.gif

Posted by: user23 Jan 10 2010, 08:56 PM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:26 PM) *
My road hasn't been bloody salted even though it is on a "Salt Route"

Cant the council read a simple map?? How embarrassing. laugh.gif
I bet they ticketed your car too. laugh.gif

Posted by: Biker1 Jan 10 2010, 09:18 PM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:56 PM) *
I bet they ticketed your car too. laugh.gif


Sorry, what's that got to do with "Salt Routes"?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 10 2010, 10:57 PM

QUOTE (Hugh Saskin @ Jan 10 2010, 07:54 PM) *
So how long do you reckon before the driver of this mystery car comes forward and complains bitterly to the press - also, how do you reckon the paperwork was affixed to the windscreen if the car had been abandoned in the snow, to say nothing of any road markings being covered in snow? You really think they are just (bearing in mind this incident was alleged to have been witnessed less than 24hrs after the heavy snowfall) going to pay up and say 'It's a fair cop, guv?'
QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 08:04 PM) *
"but traffic wardens don't feel the cold"
As for "It's a fair cop Guv" you have no alternative but to pay up unless you want to go to court and pay even more!
While we're on the subject of ticketing vehicles when they're parking on the snow ( tongue.gif ), a traffic warden can't just slap a ticket on and walk away. He/she/it takes other evidence to back up any possible prosecution and appeal. This includes photographs showing the wheel positions, vehicle position and road markings.

Parking tickets normally have details on the back for HOW TO PAY and HOW TO APPEAL.
I'd think any appeal from this vehicle owner would be permitted and the ticket thrown out. Failing that the vehicle owner should be advised by the Council that they could take their appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal ( http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/index.php ) - previously the National Parking Adjudication Service (NPAS)

anyway.... back to Salt Routes

Posted by: Strafin Jan 10 2010, 11:16 PM

I'm not sure an appeal would stand up. The defendant would have to prove they were not on Yellow lines, or in a restricted bay. The council would be able to prove that they were, no matter how unfair that may seem, that is the letter of the law.

Posted by: user23 Jan 11 2010, 08:24 AM

QUOTE (Biker1 @ Jan 10 2010, 09:18 PM) *
Sorry, what's that got to do with "Salt Routes"?
I was suggestion both were probably fabricated.
QUOTE (spartacus @ Jan 10 2010, 10:57 PM) *
Parking tickets normally have details on the back for HOW TO PAY and HOW TO APPEAL.
I'd think any appeal from this vehicle owner would be permitted and the ticket thrown out. Failing that the vehicle owner should be advised by the Council that they could take their appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal ( TPT linky thing ) - previously the National Parking Adjudication Service (NPAS)
True, if they'd ticketed you incorrectly you'll get your money back on appeal, just like you would appealing against any conviction that was overturned.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 11 2010, 10:32 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 11 2010, 08:24 AM) *
I was suggestion both were probably fabricated.
True, if they'd ticketed you incorrectly you'll get your money back on appeal, just like you would appealing against any conviction that was overturned.


a) civil enforcement of parking is not a criminal matter (as hinted by the words 'civil enforcement'). Thus there is no conviction whatsoever.

b ) You don't get your money back on appeal. You either pay or appeal. There is no mechanism for getting the money back.

c) if you pay, you are deemed to have accepted liability and no appeal is possible

Posted by: Berkshirelad Jan 11 2010, 10:35 AM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 10 2010, 11:16 PM) *
I'm not sure an appeal would stand up. The defendant would have to prove they were not on Yellow lines, or in a restricted bay. The council would be able to prove that they were, no matter how unfair that may seem, that is the letter of the law.


Davis V Heatley. If a traffic sign is not as described in the TSRGD, then it cease to exist and cannot be enforced if if its meaning is obvious to a reasonable person. If it is obscured, it does not meet the visibility requirements of the TSRGD.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 11 2010, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (Berkshirelad @ Jan 11 2010, 10:35 AM) *
Davis V Heatley. If a traffic sign is not as described in the TSRGD, then it cease to exist and cannot be enforced if if its meaning is obvious to a reasonable person. If it is obscured, it does not meet the visibility requirements of the TSRGD.

I don't buy that. Yiu could claim tha it's obscured by rain, or bright sunlight for example. So long as the sign itself is legal I think you would struggle. It would not be unreasonable to expect someone to wipe the snow off to read it.

Posted by: Angry of Hungerford Jan 17 2010, 04:20 AM

Now I'm totally confused (yes it doesn't take much) I have checked the weather forecast for the next 7 days and can't see much sign of frost on the way.

Can someone please explain why on earth WBDC are out gritting this evening?

Let alone 2am on a Sunday morning, and before anyone suggests it is good to have the salt on the roads - it was raining at the time!!!

No wonder our wonderful council runs out of salt so quickly, and no wonder budgets are low when they happily pay for the gritting team work when they don't need to.

On the flip side - it was one of the only west Berkshire gritters seen in hungerford for quite sometime.

Posted by: Strafin Jan 17 2010, 12:33 PM

WBDC? Who are they! If they are gritting today though I think it conclusive proof that they don't have a grasp of contingency at all.

Posted by: user23 Jan 17 2010, 02:19 PM

QUOTE (Angry of Hungerford @ Jan 17 2010, 04:20 AM) *
Now I'm totally confused (yes it doesn't take much) I have checked the weather forecast for the next 7 days and can't see much sign of frost on the way.

Can someone please explain why on earth WBDC are out gritting this evening?

Let alone 2am on a Sunday morning, and before anyone suggests it is good to have the salt on the roads - it was raining at the time!!!

No wonder our wonderful council runs out of salt so quickly, and no wonder budgets are low when they happily pay for the gritting team work when they don't need to.

On the flip side - it was one of the only west Berkshire gritters seen in hungerford for quite sometime.
Here we go, someone now complaining about too much gritting!

There was a Met Office weather warning for icy roads last night, perhaps with so many calls for roads to be gritted at the first warning of ice that's what they were doing?

The saying "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.

Posted by: blackdog Jan 17 2010, 02:49 PM

QUOTE (Strafin @ Jan 17 2010, 12:33 PM) *
WBDC? Who are they!

West Berkshire District Council - the correct name for our local Unitary Authority. The 'District' is usually dropped, perhaps in an attempt to create the impression that West Berkshire is a county?

Posted by: user23 Jan 17 2010, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (blackdog @ Jan 17 2010, 02:49 PM) *
West Berkshire District Council - the correct name for our local Unitary Authority. The 'District' is usually dropped, perhaps in an attempt to create the impression that West Berkshire is a county?
Actually the correct name is West Berkshire Council. You might see West Berkshire District Council used occasionally but that's not their official name.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 17 2010, 05:42 PM

The 'District' is certainly used on the legal documents they produce, such as traffic orders. So I'd say their 'official' name for legal purposes must be West Berkshire District Council

Posted by: Angry of Hungerford Jan 18 2010, 01:27 AM

QUOTE (user23 @ Jan 17 2010, 02:55 PM) *
Actually the correct name is West Berkshire Council. You might see West Berkshire District Council used occasionally but that's not their official name.


I fear that we again are going off topic but to quote them from their own constituation document -

"1.1 The Council’s Constitution
West Berkshire District Council has produced a Constitution which sets out how the
Council operates, how decisions are made and the procedures which are followed to
ensure that these decisions are efficient, transparent and accountable to local
people. Some of these processes are required by law, while others are a matter for
the Council to choose."

Link to this is - http://www.westberks.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=262&p=0

However I agree that it may sound like I'm complaining that they are gritting to much now - frost was not forcast for last night, I actually emaied the met office and asked this question - They replied "No the overnight temperature for this area was not expected to drop below 1 or 2c - however we expected rain to continue to 4am with a clearing sky to follow. No frost was recorded at our stations within your area"

Surely if I can get this information then "the council", must get more detailed updated than us!

My concern is that when we do get our next cold snap we are all going to be left with little or no salt / grit as they are being over zelus.

I'll give you the my example from this evening - at 10pm in Hungerford High Street, we had a gritter, followed by a recovery vehicle, followed by another gritter - Both gritters speading either salt or grit or the current mix.

My question is WHY? (Perhaps the recovery truck was just in case but I suspect that this was by accident :-) )

Yes this evening is frosty - but do they know something we don't ? I'm guessing tomorrows trip to work will be bad if we need to have gritter out in tandum.

Posted by: user23 Jan 18 2010, 09:28 AM

Because people have asked for the roads to be gritted at the first warning of frost, I would guess.

I've heard caller after caller to local radio stations requesting this it and I'd imagine they've had similar complaints directly to them.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 18 2010, 10:27 AM

The next 'grit run' should be on Tuesday afternoon / Evening. Its not rocket science. Snow is forecast for Wednesday by the Met Office. If they plan for this and monitor the forecast to ensure that the timeframe of the event does not change then this is sensible.

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