At what point will it end... Options

[Phil_D11102]

At what point will it end, the stupid taxation of those who are not rich and have families.

Currently my paycheck is less than it was last year, and that is after a 1% raise.

The reason behind it is because I have to pay the shortfall (benefits in kind) "I" caused by using my companies private health to get an operation done instead of using the NHS. Kinda stupid, as I saved the NHS money and a hospital bed.

We will lose our childbenefit in 2013, but starting in Sept my son will take the bus to school, at a cost of £96 for just over 1 term. This will equate to just under 300 quid a year. Funny thing is if he stays on for an afterschool activity (which we will have to pay for), there is no bus at a later time. So with the increase of petrol, how much worse off will we be.

As we all know, petrol, food and insurance prices have risen. Interes rates are due to rise sometime later this year, so up will the mortage go.

Where will it end under this new gov't?

[Turin Machine]

Where do I start ? lets put my side of the scenario out there and see how long it takes for the likes of Mr Garvie et al to start a petion for my public stoning !

Stupid Taxation huh ? err how do you think we pay for the schools your children attend ? Fairy dust ?

you're lucky you have an employer who provides privat health, most don't, by all means enjoy but please stop whinging, if you don't want I have a knee that could do with replacement, perhaps you might like to pay for it ?

yeah, you wil be worse of when your som starts using the bus, welcome to the world of parenting, its expensive what did you expect ? a free ride ?

Food, petrol and Insurance always go up, fact of life, like Death and Taxes. if you assumed mortgage rates would always stay low then, well I'm not going to be rude to you, but.

It will end when it ends, presumably when we can get our balance of payments back under some kind of control after the incredible "when its gone its gone and then we borrow some more" of the last government (Aw bless 'em)

By the way I'v been paying my tax for a very long time and at a very high rate, presumably to help fund your school and your child allowance so don't start whining around me, please.

[Richard Garvie]

At what point will it end, the stupid taxation of those who are not rich and have families.

Currently my paycheck is less than it was last year, and that is after a 1% raise.

The reason behind it is because I have to pay the shortfall (benefits in kind) "I" caused by using my companies private health to get an operation done instead of using the NHS. Kinda stupid, as I saved the NHS money and a hospital bed.

We will lose our childbenefit in 2013, but starting in Sept my son will take the bus to school, at a cost of £96 for just over 1 term. This will equate to just under 300 quid a year. Funny thing is if he stays on for an afterschool activity (which we will have to pay for), there is no bus at a later time. So with the increase of petrol, how much worse off will we be.

As we all know, petrol, food and insurance prices have risen. Interes rates are due to rise sometime later this year, so up will the mortage go.

Where will it end under this new gov't?

With VAT up, tuition fees trebled, EMA cut etc. etc., it's going to be a tough few years. Then if you have elderly parents, they are having their benefits like the heating allowance cut. The fact that escapes Turin Machine is that whilst the poor, middle income families and the vulnerable pay the price for the baking crisis, the elite have been largely left untouched by the squeeze.

With long term debt at £50m and debt interest running quite high, West Berks will have to make deeper cuts than expected too.

What I would say to all defenders of the current Government debt reduction plan is this: To get out of debt, we need growth and people paying taxes. By scrapping millions of jobs, that's millions more worth of JSA we need to pay, millions more housing benefit we need to pay. Add all of this money we will be paying out in benefits to the millions we are losing in tax revenue means we will be billions worse off.

I'm not saying that savings do not need to be made. But a gradual defecit reduction would responsibally reduce the defecit without chucking millions of people on to the dole lines, meaning we continue to recieve tax revenue and we pay less in benefits to those who lose their jobs.

[Ron]

With VAT up, tuition fees trebled, EMA cut etc. etc., it's going to be a tough few years. Then if you have elderly parents, they are having their benefits like the heating allowance cut. The fact that escapes Turin Machine is that whilst the poor, middle income families and the vulnerable pay the price for the baking crisis, the elite have been largely left untouched by the squeeze.

With long term debt at £50m and debt interest running quite high, West Berks will have to make deeper cuts than expected too.

What I would say to all defenders of the current Government debt reduction plan is this: To get out of debt, we need growth and people paying taxes. By scrapping millions of jobs, that's millions more worth of JSA we need to pay, millions more housing benefit we need to pay. Add all of this money we will be paying out in benefits to the millions we are losing in tax revenue means we will be billions worse off.

I'm not saying that savings do not need to be made. But a gradual defecit reduction would responsibally reduce the defecit without chucking millions of people on to the dole lines, meaning we continue to recieve tax revenue and we pay less in benefits to those who lose their jobs.

It's a pitty Blair, Brown, etc. didn't stop the rot they at least, in part, created, as Brown has confessed to. I haven't seen 'Wallace' and your tribe come up with any reasonable alternartives to the Con/Lib plans yet. This is from someone who voted Labour for many years until the latter years of Blair and Brown, including local elections!

[Andy Capp]

I can see what you mean, however; it is incumbent on the opposition to challenge, contradict and test all that comes from the party in power.

I do fear a return to the 80s where, while it might have been necessary to break the militant left, the Tories left a lot of communities to 'rot' in relative poverty without seemingly creating an alternative.

I understand that a lot of new jobs go to people not born here, and of those, not many are jobs with any prospects. I think we are yet to see the real effect of the cuts, and if we do, we might just be grateful that we do have a progressive element to the government.

[Richard Garvie]

It's a pitty Blair, Brown, etc. didn't stop the rot they at least, in part, created, as Brown has confessed to. I haven't seen 'Wallace' and your tribe come up with any reasonable alternartives to the Con/Lib plans yet. This is from someone who voted Labour for many years until the latter years of Blair and Brown, including local elections!

The defecit can be explained in two parts. The collapse of the banks, and then the money spent by the Government to keep the economy growing / people in work etc. Our figures were the strongest in the G20, and had we cut the defecit responsibally, we would be in an excellent position. Labour had a plan, to reduce the defecit in a more responsible way, protecting growth and keeping people in work.

Do you honestly think that the defecit will be gone in four years with what the Government are doing? To fully recover from the crisis, we need people in work who are paying taxes.

PS. I agree Labour should be saying more on this, but you need to look at the bigger picture of what actually happened. Yes, Labour should have better regulated the banks, but when everyone else (including DC and Boy George) were calling for deregulation, Labour ultimately bowed to the pressure. If Cameron had got his way, theatre would have been even less regulation, so how he can say that the deregululation is to blame is hypocrisy.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

At what point will it end, the stupid taxation of those who are not rich and have families.

Currently my paycheck is less than it was last year, and that is after a 1% raise.

The reason behind it is because I have to pay the shortfall (benefits in kind) "I" caused by using my companies private health to get an operation done instead of using the NHS. Kinda stupid, as I saved the NHS money and a hospital bed.

We will lose our childbenefit in 2013, but starting in Sept my son will take the bus to school, at a cost of £96 for just over 1 term. This will equate to just under 300 quid a year. Funny thing is if he stays on for an afterschool activity (which we will have to pay for), there is no bus at a later time. So with the increase of petrol, how much worse off will we be.

As we all know, petrol, food and insurance prices have risen. Interes rates are due to rise sometime later this year, so up will the mortage go.

Where will it end under this new gov't?

I don't have any kids but still have to help pay for yours to go to school through taxation so don't moan. Moaning about the cost of children after you have had them really p***ses me off. Go and get a vasectomy and make sure you don''t have any more if the cost of them bothers you so.

[Bloggo]

The defecit can be explained in two parts. The collapse of the banks,

Allowed to happen by Labour

and then the money spent by the Government to keep the economy growing / people in work etc.

Spending money that we did not have and so Labour allowed uncontrolled borrowing.

Our figures were the strongest in the G20, and had we cut the defecit responsibally, we would be in an excellent position.

But Labour didn't as we all well know.

Labour had a plan, to reduce the defecit in a more responsible way, protecting growth and keeping people in work.

No they haven't, your man Ed has not publicly declared how he planned to do this.

Do you honestly think that the defecit will be gone in four years with what the Government are doing? To fully recover from the crisis, we need people in work who are paying taxes.

What exactly do you think labour would do then?

PS. I agree Labour should be saying more on this, but you need to look at the bigger picture of what actually happened. Yes, Labour should have better regulated the banks, but when everyone else (including DC and Boy George) were calling for deregulation, Labour ultimately bowed to the pressure. If Cameron had got his way, theatre would have been even less regulation, so how he can say that the deregululation is to blame is hypocrisy.

This is an admission that Labour were inept in their governance of the country.

[Richard Garvie]

Allowed to happen by Labour

Yes, Labour did allow it to happen, but as said before, were under pressure from the Tories and the City. Funny how DC and Boy George have not regulated the banks more tightly since they came into power, isn't it!!!

Spending money that we did not have and so Labour allowed uncontrolled borrowing.

Exactly, the Government were borrowing to stimulate the economy. That's why it's called a budget defecit.

But Labour didn't as we all well know.

Labour had started to cut back SLOWLY, and that was the plan for this parliament. Gradually cut back over the term of parliament, rather than front loading massive cuts like the Tories have done (propped up by the Lib Dems). This would have protected growth and allowed for a gradual reduction of the defecit, without the need to chuck millions of people onto the dole and pay them benefits.

No they haven't, your man Ed has not publicly declared how he planned to do this.

"Labour had a plan". This is where Ed is going wrong. Labour had a clear plan to gradually reduce the defecit at the general election. Since Ed took over, the Labour plan has argument has remained the same: We should be cutting responsibally, protecting jobs and growth. Ed just isn't getting that message over effectively.

What exactly do you think labour would do then?

Do I really have to say it again? Gradually reducing the defecit, keeping people in work and having people paying tax. Yes, it may have taken longer to fix the defecit, but at least we would have growth and consumer confidence.

This is an admission that Labour were inept in their governance of the country.

Not really, it does show that Labour were not bold enough to stand up to pressure to deregulate but hardly inept. I still believe that in the future, people will look back on what happened under Cameron and Osborne and they will cringe.

Just for the record, are you saying we should have let the banks collapse? Are you saying that we should not have stimulated the economy? That's what the Tories are saying, but I don't honestly believe that would have happened. Can you imagine Northern Rock style crowds of people demanding their money? Can you imaging everyone being booted out of work in the middle of the recession? There would have been anarchy.

Yes, the Tories let people lose their homes, savings and jobs during the last major recession. Thank god for a Labour Government this time around!!!

[Turin Machine]

Richard, do you, or does anyone truly believe that a Leopard can change it's spots ? If (God forbid Labour get in again ai will be business as usual, spend, spend, spend ! Labour ruined this countery with their profligate spending plans, unbridled Immigration policy, wasted funds, and don't get me started on the Human Rights fiasco, it was under labour that the Police switched from their white shirted public servant attitude to a black shirted paramilitary arm of the Labour party ! Who else would think it a good idea to have Slugger Prescot as Deputy Pm for Gods sake. Who took us into an illegal war ? who sold off British Gold reserves at a bargain basement fire sale ? Who declared that The travelling community had rights over and above those of other citizens (just because it was politically correct) I could go on all day, but please do not insult the intelligense of most of the people on this forum.

And why do you and yours feel it ok to use the word tory like an epithet ?

[Bloggo]

Richard, you appear to be an intelligent and articulate person. How and why you support such an inept, badly led, inaffective and failed group such as the Labour party is baffling.

[massifheed]

I don't have any kids but still have to help pay for yours to go to school through taxation so don't moan. Moaning about the cost of children after you have had them really p***ses me off. Go and get a vasectomy and make sure you don''t have any more if the cost of them bothers you so.

Wonderfully narrow-minded and selfish post.

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Wonderfully narrow-minded and selfish post.

A bit like his then? me me me.....

[TallDarkAndHands...]

Richard, do you, or does anyone truly believe that a Leopard can change it's spots ? If (God forbid Labour get in again ai will be business as usual, spend, spend, spend ! Labour ruined this countery with their profligate spending plans, unbridled Immigration policy, wasted funds, and don't get me started on the Human Rights fiasco, it was under labour that the Police switched from their white shirted public servant attitude to a black shirted paramilitary arm of the Labour party ! Who else would think it a good idea to have Slugger Prescot as Deputy Pm for Gods sake. Who took us into an illegal war ? who sold off British Gold reserves at a bargain basement fire sale ? Who declared that The travelling community had rights over and above those of other citizens (just because it was politically correct) I could go on all day, but please do not insult the intelligense of most of the people on this forum.

And why do you and yours feel it ok to use the word tory like an epithet ?

Garvie reminds me of Harold Camping in his posts.. Doomed... We are all Doomed I tells ya!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/2...ping-apocalypse

[Turin Machine]

I'd take the rapture over another term of Labour like a shot thank you very much !

[Richard Garvie]

Richard, do you, or does anyone truly believe that a Leopard can change it's spots ? If (God forbid Labour get in again ai will be business as usual, spend, spend, spend ! Labour ruined this countery with their profligate spending plans, unbridled Immigration policy, wasted funds, and don't get me started on the Human Rights fiasco, it was under labour that the Police switched from their white shirted public servant attitude to a black shirted paramilitary arm of the Labour party ! Who else would think it a good idea to have Slugger Prescot as Deputy Pm for Gods sake. Who took us into an illegal war ? who sold off British Gold reserves at a bargain basement fire sale ? Who declared that The travelling community had rights over and above those of other citizens (just because it was politically correct) I could go on all day, but please do not insult the intelligense of most of the people on this forum.

And why do you and yours feel it ok to use the word tory like an epithet ?

But your argument is flawed. Before the banking collapse, we were paying less in debt interest than when Labour came to office!!! That's despite building schools, hospitals and loads of new infrastructure.

What Labour did in power:

- The minimum wage

- 3,700 schools rebuilt or refurbished

- shortest NHS waiting times in history

- three million more operations a year

- over 44,000 more doctors

- 90,000 more nurses

- GPs open into the evenings and at weekends

- free cancer prescriptions

- a two-week maximum wait to see a cancer specialist

- over 100 new hospitals

- the Winter Fuel Allowance

- free TV licences and free bus passes for pensioners

- the Pension Credit

- the New Deal for the Unemployed

- full-time rights for part-time workers

- record maternity pay

- the right to paternity leave

- the biggest programme of council house building for 20 years

- the Disability Discrimination Act

- the Racial and Religious Hatred act

- the Equalities Act

- devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London

- the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester

- the Human Rights Act

- crime down by a third

- the handgun ban

- domestic violence cut by two thirds and rape convictions up by half

- more police on the streets

- the world’s first ever Climate Change Act

- beating the Kyoto emissions targets

- the ban on cluster bombs

- peace in Northern Ireland

- free swimming for kids

- free museum entry

- the right to roam

- the Olympics for London

- half a million children out of poverty

- extended schools

- 42,000 more teachers

- the best-ever exam results in schools

- Education Maintenance Allowances

- record numbers of students.

- a doubling of apprenticeships

- a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child

- Sure Start children’s centres

- free nursery places

- Child Tax Credits.

[Richard Garvie]

Richard, you appear to be an intelligent and articulate person. How and why you support such an inept, badly led, inaffective and failed group such as the Labour party is baffling.

It's either red or blue, surely? And the blues simply don't look out for people like me or those from similar backgrounds. Rather than not get involved at all, I'd rather try and influence the one party that does represent those from poor and middle income backgrounds to become something that is more effective.

[Turin Machine]

"peace in Northern Ireland"

hasn't really worked has it ? plus you released convicted terrorists back into society.

"the world’s first ever Climate Change Act"

Please don't make me laff !

"The HAndgun Ban"

Again, not working is it ?

"the New Deal for the Unemployed"

You mean larger payouts to immegrants who take 7 bedroom mansions for their falilies


"the Equalities Act"

Again, more PC rubbish


"devolution: a Scottish Parliament, a Welsh Assembly, a Mayor for London"

Proud of that are you ?


"the transformation of our great cities including Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham, Newcastle, Bristol, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool and Manchester"

Into poverty stricken wastelands filled with desperate hope less alchoholics thanks to all day opening


"the right to paternity leave"

That really helped small business didn't it ?


"the Racial and Religious Hatred act"

In other words other religions are free to preach hate but if we protest we get arreested, Great !


"the Human Rights Act"

One of the greatest blights on English society today !


"more police on the streets"

Where ? I havn't seen any round here, unless you mean the thugs in riot gear killing innocent papersellers.


"a Child Trust Fund for every newborn child"

I mean, come on !

[Bloggo]

It's either red or blue, surely? And the blues simply don't look out for people like me or those from similar backgrounds. Rather than not get involved at all, I'd rather try and influence the one party that does represent those from poor and middle income backgrounds to become something that is more effective.

I think you have your head in the sand and are not seeing the legacy of greed, disrespect, anger,and lawlessness that we have inherited from Labour.

[Andy Capp]

I think you have your head in the sand and are not seeing the legacy of greed, disrespect, anger,and lawlessness that we have inherited from Labour.

I think the names Labour and Tory are interchangeable, depending on what time period you would consider.

I understand that the nations finances (the budget deficit) were better shape just before the banking crash, than they were when Labour got into power. I am also certain the Tories would have done exactly what Labour did when that occurred as well, there was no practical choice. Look what is happing now. We have underwritten Ireland and it likes the PIGS as well. And the Tories want to release all those people the Labour party locked up.