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> Tesco foodbank
Sherlock
post Jul 6 2013, 06:30 PM
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Tesco and its like are able to pay rock bottom wages thanks to the income support subsidy, without which many wouldn't be able to make ends meet. Almost as iniquitous as the subsidies we're forced to pay extremely well off landowners like our local MP, income support is part of an increasing tsunami of subsidy money extracted from society by big business.

And now they have large signs at the door of their Newbury megastore appealing for foodbanks, complete with the slogan 'every tin helps'.

We truly are being screwed by those in power. And I don't mean the PPE laden public school educated incompetents sitting around the Cabinet table.
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On the edge
post Jul 6 2013, 06:47 PM
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Aren't we just! Of course, it isn't a monopoly (or even an oligopoly) because our rulers say so.


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blackdog
post Jul 6 2013, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (Sherlock @ Jul 6 2013, 07:30 PM) *
And now they have large signs at the door of their Newbury megastore appealing for foodbanks, complete with the slogan 'every tin helps'.

Great isn't it - they persuade people to buy an extra can or two for the foodbank and pocket the profit they make on said cans.
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motormad
post Jul 7 2013, 12:28 AM
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I agree.. if I follow what you are thinking correctly.

That is such a large company who pay low wages are then begging for us to give them food. Why can Tesco not donate 1 can for every 20, 50 or whatever, sold. They could easily absorb one in 20 cans of beans sold and still make large profits..
To the blind uninformed they are doing a favour but really they're just commercial ********.


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user23
post Jul 7 2013, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 7 2013, 01:28 AM) *
I agree.. if I follow what you are thinking correctly.

That is such a large company who pay low wages are then begging for us to give them food. Why can Tesco not donate 1 can for every 20, 50 or whatever, sold. They could easily absorb one in 20 cans of beans sold and still make large profits..
To the blind uninformed they are doing a favour but really they're just commercial ********.
They're a commercial company and under no obligation to help anyone else than their shareholders.

Why does it surprise everyone they've found another way to make money?
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On the edge
post Jul 7 2013, 08:58 AM
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QUOTE (user23 @ Jul 7 2013, 08:53 AM) *
They're a commercial company and under no obligation to help anyone else than their shareholders.

Why does it surprise everyone they've found another way to make money?


Quite right, I'm personally not surprised at all! I'm also not surprised that HMG hasn't the wit to realise that the car park at these stores is a taxable revenue earning asset. However, we all actually know this already, nothing new here and there is a very simple way of showing your displeasure.


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Andy Capp
post Jul 7 2013, 09:01 AM
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Tesco work to dangerously thin margins. Their profits come from scale. At the end of the day, if people insist on keen prices, companies have to seek lower wages, whether here or abroad. And if people want pensions, then companies need to make healthy profits.
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Andy Capp
post Jul 7 2013, 09:13 AM
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QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 7 2013, 09:58 AM) *
Quite right, I'm personally not surprised at all! I'm also not surprised that HMG hasn't the wit to realise that the car park at these stores is a taxable revenue earning asset. However, we all actually know this already, nothing new here and there is a very simple way of showing your displeasure.

Why would I be upset at Tesco keeping prices keen? There's no such thing as a free lunch. Wages go up, then so do prices, or we loose jobs.
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Andy Capp
post Jul 7 2013, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE (Sherlock @ Jul 6 2013, 07:30 PM) *
Tesco and its like are able to pay rock bottom wages thanks to the income support subsidy, without which many wouldn't be able to make ends meet. Almost as iniquitous as the subsidies we're forced to pay extremely well off landowners like our local MP, income support is part of an increasing tsunami of subsidy money extracted from society by big business.

And now they have large signs at the door of their Newbury megastore appealing for foodbanks, complete with the slogan 'every tin helps'.

We truly are being screwed by those in power. And I don't mean the PPE laden public school educated incompetents sitting around the Cabinet table.
QUOTE (On the edge @ Jul 6 2013, 07:47 PM) *
Aren't we just! Of course, it isn't a monopoly (or even an oligopoly) because our rulers say so.
QUOTE (blackdog @ Jul 6 2013, 10:05 PM) *
Great isn't it - they persuade people to buy an extra can or two for the foodbank and pocket the profit they make on said cans.
QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 7 2013, 01:28 AM) *
I agree.. if I follow what you are thinking correctly.

That is such a large company who pay low wages are then begging for us to give them food. Why can Tesco not donate 1 can for every 20, 50 or whatever, sold. They could easily absorb one in 20 cans of beans sold and still make large profits..
To the blind uninformed they are doing a favour but really they're just commercial ********.


Tesco will pledge up to 30% of the value for the collection. They also accept cash donations and online.

http://foodcollection.tesco.com/together

Tesco's are not bad payers either and pay well above the national minimum.
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On the edge
post Jul 7 2013, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 7 2013, 10:01 AM) *
Tesco work to dangerously thin margins. Their profits come from scale. At the end of the day, if people insist on keen prices, companies have to seek lower wages, whether here or abroad. And if people want pensions, then companies need to make healthy profits.


All very true, save one thing. Grocery margins in UK are rather higher that they are in Europe or the States. Oligopoly position means the 'low prices' are secured from suppliers etc. You are quite right about our capitalist instincts though, we demand low prices and low rents but high wages and pensions. Someone looses somewhere. We are a capitalist society, so lets have no crocodile tears about an avericious trader who is, as you say, playing the game and actually winning. There are other solutions but that would mean changing the whole game.


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Blake
post Jul 7 2013, 11:31 AM
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QUOTE (Sherlock @ Jul 6 2013, 07:30 PM) *
Tesco and its like are able to pay rock bottom wages thanks to the income support subsidy, without which many wouldn't be able to make ends meet. Almost as iniquitous as the subsidies we're forced to pay extremely well off landowners like our local MP, income support is part of an increasing tsunami of subsidy money extracted from society by big business.

And now they have large signs at the door of their Newbury megastore appealing for foodbanks, complete with the slogan 'every tin helps'.

We truly are being screwed by those in power. And I don't mean the PPE laden public school educated incompetents sitting around the Cabinet table.


You sound like the dinosaur, Tony Benn. Perhaps you'd prefer North Korea where all are equal and everyone has plenty of food?
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Simon Kirby
post Jul 7 2013, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE (Andy Capp @ Jul 7 2013, 10:54 AM) *
Tesco will pledge up to 30% of the value for the collection. They also accept cash donations and online.

http://foodcollection.tesco.com/together

Tesco's are not bad payers either and pay well above the national minimum.

That's right. They're a good employer and pay a good margin above the minimum wage for general assistants, whereas plenty of shops pay the basic minimum wage. You also get a 10% staff discount after you've been there a while (I worked there for several years and was very happy). There corporate responsibility is also very much better than a lot of shops. Don't forget that food is actually very much cheaper in real terms than it was when we shopped in the high street, and that is largely due to the efficiencies driven by supermarkets.

I don't have a problem with the Trussell Trust's Foodbank franchise, and while I might take issue with some Christian social pressure groups, especially ones endorsed by George Carey, this initiative is just living Christian values and I applaud it. Here's Dr. Carey's endorsement. I particularly liked this bit:
QUOTE (George Carey)
Some years ago the WCC [World Council of Churches] had a conference on Poverty in Geneva. They began it with a sumptuous Dinner for all the delegates. One cynical journalist there was so amazed by the discrepancy between a wonderful dinner for us and talks about the poor that he went to the see the President afterwards and said: ‘Thank you for such an outstanding meal. If you ever have a conference on chastity, may I be invited?!’


All the same, as the proverb has it:
QUOTE (Anne Isabella Ritchie)
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
So while charity has its place, I would very much prefer to see the poor encouraged to grow their own food. Accepting charity is always demeaning, but providing for yourself is satisfying and builds confidence, but it also gets you out of the house and meeting other people, and that has tremendous social benefits. I make no apology for working this thread round to allotments - because allotment gardening genuinely is part of the answer for those in food poverty. The challenge is that providing allotments is not enough, there needs to be an outreach programme to show the disenfranchised that allotmenteering is an option for them - if you weren't brought up in a gardening tradition or aren't in the middle-class gardening set you probably wouldn't think that an allotment was a possibility or know the first thing about getting started.


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CharlieF
post Jul 9 2013, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 7 2013, 08:03 PM) *
All the same, as the proverb has it:
QUOTE (Anne Isabella Ritchie)
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.


As I understand it the Foodbank only gives you three days worth of food which hardly leads to a lifetime of dependency! The Loose Ends soup kitchen at the Baptist Church caters to regulars. Brilliant job they do too. I blogged about it http://charliefarrow.blogspot.co.uk/2013/0...-ends-soup.html

Agree on the growing of our own food and replacing municipal plantings with edibles rather than ornamentals that anyone can harvest - no-one in Newbury should be unable to afford apples in season - that's mainly why I got involved with Sustainable Newbury. Agree too we need more NTC land given over to allotments though - there's a massive waiting list. It's hard work to set up a new site though needs someone who's prepared to do a lot of the donkey work on the site and set up an allotment society ... someone like you actually Simon.... rolleyes.gif
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Simon Kirby
post Jul 9 2013, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (CharlieF @ Jul 9 2013, 08:16 PM) *
Agree on the growing of our own food and replacing municipal plantings with edibles rather than ornamentals that anyone can harvest - no-one in Newbury should be unable to afford apples in season - that's mainly why I got involved with Sustainable Newbury. Agree too we need more NTC land given over to allotments though - there's a massive waiting list. It's hard work to set up a new site though needs someone who's prepared to do a lot of the donkey work on the site and set up an allotment society ... someone like you actually Simon.... rolleyes.gif

smile.gif

Setting up an allotment isn't so very difficult, but the near impossible challenge in Newbury is getting the land to do it, but once you have the land you really just need to plant stuff, it's not a great deal more complicated than that. The parish council have the standing to talk to landowners, and they also have the power to compulsorily rent the land if the land owner needs some encouragement. Obviously, if the opportunity were there I'd be more than prepared to do the donkey work.

I'm yet to be convinced about the sense of edible municipal planting. For example, apples are relatively difficult to grow with their need for regular expert pruning (which is different depending on whether the variety is tip or spur bearing), the need to de-fruit to prevent bi-annual bearing, the need for compatible pollination partners (and varieties like the popular Bramley is triploid and so won't pollinate in reciprocation), and the extensive list of pest and diseases that need a careful watch and timely treatment such as codling moth, scab, sawfly and canker. I don't want to be taxed so that the local authority can manage a public orchard, and I wouldn't want to eat a maggoty apple from a scabby tree that hadn't been managed.

On the other hand the allotment movement is 200 years old and is a successful model, so if it ain't broke don't fix it - make cheap sociable allotments available and let the allotmenteers grow what they want for themselves - apple trees costs £7, so not a huge investment, and if allotmenteers want to plant them in the hedge-line and share their crop then why stop them.


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motormad
post Jul 10 2013, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Simon Kirby @ Jul 7 2013, 08:03 PM) *
All the same, as the proverb has it:
So while charity has its place, I would very much prefer to see the poor encouraged to grow their own food. Accepting charity is always demeaning, but providing for yourself is satisfying and builds confidence, but it also gets you out of the house and meeting other people, and that has tremendous social benefits. I make no apology for working this thread round to allotments - because allotment gardening genuinely is part of the answer for those in food poverty. The challenge is that providing allotments is not enough, there needs to be an outreach programme to show the disenfranchised that allotmenteering is an option for them - if you weren't brought up in a gardening tradition or aren't in the middle-class gardening set you probably wouldn't think that an allotment was a possibility or know the first thing about getting started.


Ok let's say you are right.
So I do not know very much about the food bank but it seems to be to be aimed at providing food for people that need it most. Let's not beat around the bush, most of these people are homeless.
So a homeless person would not have a house but would have an allotment shed. How would they pay for the rent of it, the materials required to construct it, plant feed, etc.




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Simon Kirby
post Jul 10 2013, 08:29 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 10 2013, 08:48 PM) *
Ok let's say you are right.
So I do not know very much about the food bank but it seems to be to be aimed at providing food for people that need it most. Let's not beat around the bush, most of these people are homeless.
So a homeless person would not have a house but would have an allotment shed. How would they pay for the rent of it, the materials required to construct it, plant feed, etc.

If you're homeless then growing the raw ingredients for a meal isn't really that much help because you don't have anywhere to prepare the food. As it happens the most frequent cause for receiving a foodbank voucher is not homelessness, that's relatively uncommon, the most common reason is that your benefits claim has been delayed.

I'm not suggesting that allotmenteering is a panacea, because it isn't, but if you have a relatively stable life but just don't earn very much money then growing your own on an allotment can put cheap nutritious food on the table. Seeds and tools do cost money, and that's money that would need to be invested up-front with the pay-off several months later, but it isn't so very much - seeds of open-pollinated varieties are often ridiculously cheap and you can save your own from year to year. Seed potatoes are relatively expensive, but even then you're only talking about 10p per tuber which will yield around £2's worth of tatties. You can spend shed-loads of money on your allotment, but you can also do it on a shoe-string if you try.

Despite the advertising of the chemical companies plants need very little in the way of plant food - that's actually the wonder of photosynthesis. It's perfectly feasible to garden without buying in any fertiliser. Animal manure is useful because it improves the soil, but it isn't essential. Stables often give it away, though you would need to cart it yourself.

A shed isn't essential, though it can be handy. I built mine in the traditional allotment method from scrounged and recycled materials which cost me nothing at all.

So money isn't really the issue, but unless you were brought up in a gardening tradition as I was then I'm not sure you'd find allotmenteering overly easy to get started, and I just don't think it's an option everyone would consider without some encouragement and support.


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Andy Capp
post Jul 10 2013, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 10 2013, 08:48 PM) *
Ok let's say you are right.
So I do not know very much about the food bank but it seems to be to be aimed at providing food for people that need it most. Let's not beat around the bush, most of these people are homeless.
So a homeless person would not have a house but would have an allotment shed. How would they pay for the rent of it, the materials required to construct it, plant feed, etc.

The idea isn't necessarily about zero investment from the state, it is more about how that money is spent on the people that need help.
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On the edge
post Jul 11 2013, 09:57 AM
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I thought the 'Food Bank' was set up to help those who had temporarily hit rock bottom and just needed a bit of help to see them through. Whatever we may think, life on benefits ain't easy and any little disaster can push you further away from coming out. Changes to the benefits system will inevitably bring more people to this position. I'm pretty sure most of us, wouldn't want to claim benefits if we suddenly lost our income and would put in a huge effort to try and get an alternative. That isn't easy today; a new job is likely to take a time to find and likely to pay less.

Simon's idea of encouraging self help is actually a good one. No reason why the Food Bank couldn't had out a few packets of seed with the food parcels. Could stimulate an interest as well, which is all to the good.

As I understand it, the Loose Ends people at the Baptist Church look after those who have fallen through the safety nets and have nothing. Without going into the why and wherefore and without deciding its all their own fault, they are human and its rather nice that there are a few people simply willing to help them.

As these are both essentially charitable arrangements, it should go some way to restore faith in human nature.


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Sherlock
post Jul 12 2013, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (motormad @ Jul 7 2013, 01:28 AM) *
I agree.. if I follow what you are thinking correctly.

That is such a large company who pay low wages are then begging for us to give them food. Why can Tesco not donate 1 can for every 20, 50 or whatever, sold. They could easily absorb one in 20 cans of beans sold and still make large profits..
To the blind uninformed they are doing a favour but really they're just commercial ********.


Completely agree with you. I find these smug signs and the mentality behind them truly offensive. Second only to Wonga ads, although it's a close call.
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Andy Capp
post Jul 12 2013, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Sherlock @ Jul 12 2013, 05:22 PM) *
Completely agree with you. I find these smug signs and the mentality behind them truly offensive. Second only to Wonga ads, although it's a close call.

I understand that Tesco will match in cash up to 30% of the value of the items collected. I therefore don't understand what your complaint is.
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