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Posted by: x2lls Jan 5 2016, 10:36 PM

A tragedy unfolds.
Could it happen here?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 5 2016, 10:56 PM

It's already happened in Rotherham...

Posted by: x2lls Jan 5 2016, 11:13 PM

A totally different situation, but nonetheless awful. That was grooming over a number of
years.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 6 2016, 12:35 AM

Quote, "All we know is that the police at the scene perceived that it was mostly young men aged 18 to 35 from the Arab or North African region."

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 6 2016, 03:14 PM

Quote: "Figures show the majority of people carrying out sex attacks in Germany do not come from an immigrant background."

Posted by: gel Jan 6 2016, 03:55 PM

....of a certain well known /feared religion that treats women & animals appallingly.
My late Mum always said you can tell a lot about a nation by the way they
treat (or mistreat) their animals.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 6 2016, 03:58 PM

Thankfully, women and animals have nothing to fear in our western Christian society.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 6 2016, 07:59 PM

But a lot to fear in theirs. Obviously.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 6 2016, 09:57 PM

Agreed; however, I was being ironic as I feel our record is nothing to boast about, particularly when it comes to animal welfare.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 6 2016, 11:23 PM

I see my OP being morphed.
What has that to do with my OP?

I sense a degree of self preservation for fear of being accused of being 'racist'

Say it how it is, Mass immigration is failing big time. Merkel is outraged and wants to find the perpetrators of the disgusting behavior in many German cities. She only has to look in the mirror.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 7 2016, 12:06 AM

From the BBC (as lefty a news media you're going to find)
"More than 100 victims have complained of being sexually assaulted or robbed by gangs of up to 30 men, reportedly of Arab or North African appearance, although officials say the violence should not cast suspicion against all refugees."

Posted by: spartacus Jan 7 2016, 01:12 AM

When considering the country as a whole and a population of over 81m people that may well be true but I suppose it also depends on whether that statement considers the considerable number of gastarbeiter who have been in the country for many years to be of an 'immigrant background' or not. With over a million 'Syrian' immigrants entering Germany last year alone seeking asylum I suspect there has been a very sharp spike in such attacks in those areas where these people are being accommodated.

The recent cases are just a high profile reporting of a specific event that has made it into the international press over the New Year celebrations. The German press has been reporting incidents of rape and riots and racial tensions/beatings between rival groups of immigrants for months now and some of these camps have become no-go zones for the polizei.

What is worrying for the authorities around this part of Germany is that in a few weeks time Koln (Cologne) starts it's Karneval celebrations (similar to Mardi Gras) and it's a time when everyone in the city goes crazy, has lots of drink and the place is heaving with tourists and Koln folk having a great time. On 4th Feb in particular it will be Weiberfastnacht which is traditionally a night when women go crazy as it's 'their' Karneval day (it's a fantastic night!). If groups of 'immigrant gropers' descend on the place hoping for a repeat of New Year then it could turn ugly.... one of the traditions on that night is for women to cut off the ties of any man they see in exchanges for a kiss.. all good natured and drunken stuff. But if those women armed with sharp scissors are wandering around in large groups and start to feel threatened by Arab looking gents trying to cop a feel the gents will need to watch out that isn't just a tie that gets cut off...

Posted by: spartacus Jan 7 2016, 01:24 AM

I thought it was a variation of that 1979 hit by M... 'New York, London, Paris, Munich.....'


(I can't do a Youtube link from my tablet)

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 7 2016, 09:32 AM

Go to YouTube via a web browser
Find the desired clip
Copy the URL
Paste clip in your post (as I have).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gPoiv0sZ4s4

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 7 2016, 11:59 AM

The Telegraph,

Quote, "But the leaked police report, published in Bild newspaper and Spiegel, a news magazine, claims that one of those involved told officers: “I am Syrian. You have to treat me kindly. Mrs Merkel invited me.”
Another tore up his residence permit before the eyes of police, and told them: “You can’t do anything to me, I can get a new one tomorrow.”

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 7 2016, 12:13 PM

Is this a genuine problem unique to people from the middle east, or is it a problem of poor management of migrants or policing?

It is easy to focus on an aspect of abuse like this, but I am concerned about people on here indulging in 'confirmation bias'* to support their soft racism, more than genuine concern for the welfare of people, in particular, women.

I think we also have to take into account western foreign policy and its effect on migration levels. In effect we are partly responsible, notwithstanding we are talking about a few thousand out of nearly a million people.


* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 8 2016, 01:19 AM

Hey, just highlighting was in the national press, ours and Germany's. The real danger here is that in Germany real rabid nationalism lurks just under the skin of a very great many Germans, I've worked and for a time, lived there, and you would not believe some of the feelings expressed by otherwise sober, respectable men and women. This whole situation could all go to **** in a handcart really, really quickly. A whole new generation of pissed off right wingers rising up for a new round of pogroms. Same story, different target. Then the Bratwurst will really hit the fan!

Posted by: spartacus Jan 8 2016, 08:25 AM

I've lived and worked there too for several years but certainly don't recognise the 'rabid nationalism' comment, unless you're talking about the older generation, generally in the Bavaria region. I haven't lived there since the unification so maybe the influx of 'Ossi's who lived under the Soviet shadow changed the mood but the people I worked with were far more tolerant than the average brit.

They say the same about us I suppose and there's an undercurrent of 'rabid nationalism' in this country (aside from Alex Salmond and the haggis munchers) depending on what part of the country you live. There's an Alf Garnett character in most families I suspect who we're embarrassed about publicly, but secretly may share his views and be quite nationalistic ourselves.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 8 2016, 12:20 PM

I share similar concerns as those expressed here, but I try to be objective as I can.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 9 2016, 12:34 AM

Does Mr Kirby have a view?

Posted by: On the edge Jan 9 2016, 07:55 AM

I can't really see why anyone is surprised about this. It just seems to be a natural reaction, particularly where groups of people see their parochial world being changed and changed quickly. It's exactly the same reaction we often see round here; Newbury for Newbury people. So then, we have this great existence, which we advertise at every opportunity and tell people elsewhere they can share in this munificence if they go with our multicultural free market ways. Imagine being a fit young Fred in a far, far less pleasant part of the World, what would you do? After all, the migrants whether they come five or five thousand miles are just doing what Conservative Britain wants; getting on their bikes and looking for work!

What else did any one expect?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 9 2016, 11:19 AM

Yes, I'd prefer that you called me Simon.

As for the events in Cologne, it's a difficult situation. Those responsible for the lawlessness would appear to have been of North African or Arab ethnicity, and there is reportedly some evidence that refugees from war-torn Syria and other recent arrivals from the region were involved. That's obviously got some people into a bit of a tizzy as for them it reinforces their world view that foreigners are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed into their country, and the heat they bring to the discussion is unhelpful because it makes it very difficult to discuss the racial dimension which is certainly there are needs understanding.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 9 2016, 05:21 PM

Simon, (nudge accepted, apologies)


Cologne, I think you missed a few. Stuttgart, Hamburg, Helsinki, Kalmar, Vienna and almost certainly a few other places too. This is a Europe wide issue and in my view the blinkered liberals have a lot to answer for.
I do like those BBC words, 'would appear', 'some evidence', 'a bit of a tizzy','unhelpful', 'alleged' The liberal leftie view is amazing. Do you think those poor women who were humiliated and injured by scum would agree with you? I think not. I wonder what your response would be if it were to be YOUR daughter, wife or sister subjected to such barbarism? Merkel's chickens are coming home to roost and it will only get worse. Her policy of open doors to so many in such a short time will only have negative impact. She has even been reported today as saying deportations should be made easier for those convicted of criminal activity. Why the **** didn't they have just a little forethought and consider the consequences of such a huge influx? As for the authorities telling their nationals that they have to change THEIR way of life to avoid such activity is quite simply astounding. The mayor of Cologne should resign and hold her head in shame. It won't be long before those ******** get German passports and then a free entry to our own shores. The sooner we get out of this failed European social experiment, the better.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 9 2016, 05:51 PM

Liberal leftie? Sure, I'm comfortable with that. I think though that it is important to understand what happened first.

Posted by: newres Jan 9 2016, 05:57 PM

I's say no worse than young male Brits on holiday in Spain, Greece, Ibiza etc.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 9 2016, 06:42 PM

What happened was groups of men, of north African and or Arab origins sexually assaulted and in one case gang raped women. The police and media, for fear of being called 'racist' covered up the fact that many of them were, in fact, asylum seekers. The chief of police has now been sacked for his part in this cover up and yet more fuel has been thrown on the anti immigrant fire. Merkel is being pressured for change, and groups from the far right are recruiting like crazy. Nobody is going to come out the winner and yet the liberal elements are still attempting to keep their heads firmly buried in the sand.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 9 2016, 07:18 PM

I assume you have a source for that?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 9 2016, 07:36 PM

Personal experience?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 9 2016, 08:07 PM

I don't believe it's burring my head in the sand to stand back and look objectively at what happened and is happening. My experience is that reports can be distorted to serve the reporter's interests - look at how the Hillsborough tragedy and the shooting of Jean Charles De Menezes were reported.

Take for example your story that "what happened was groups of men, of north African and or Arab origins sexually assaulted and in one case gang raped women."

Gang rape is very obviously a repugnant act and if there was as you say a gang-rape in the town square at Cologne at New Years then the situation was very serious indeed.

As it happens the only report I can find to support your story is that of a rape reported in Weil am Rhein, some 500km away from Cologne. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12088341/Two-teenage-girls-gang-raped-by-four-Syrian-nationals-in-southern-Germany.html is the Telegraph bellowing about it with the piece illustrated by a photograph of the Cologne police.


The Telegraph concedes that the reported rape has nothing whatsoever to do with the events in Cologne, but it involved people it describes as "Syrian" and so that's good enough for the Telegraph - some Syrians are accused of rape 500km away from Cologne so obviously the pick-pockets and gropers of Cologne have to be Syrians. Mind, quite how Syrian the alleged offenders are from Weil am Rhein isn't clear as the Telegraph concedes that they are long-term residents and not asylum seekers - and why would you assume they were asylum seekers anyway?

So what we have then is a report of a rape in Weil am Rhein where girls were allegedly assaulted at a party that they'd been invited to. If the report is true then it's extremely unpleasant for those involved, but to put it in context there are some 8,000 rapes reported annually in Germany, so while we're told by the Telegraph about a report in Weil am Rhein there were likely 20 others reports on the same night, and 200 reported rapes since New Years, but I'm guessing here that they didn't involved anyone that could reasonably be described as "Syrian" and so the Telegraph didn't bother to report those.

So you see why I would prefer to take a considered view.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 9 2016, 11:33 PM

A few nuggets gleaned from the press and written by a female journo. "Many migrants come from countries where women have low status and little legal protection; it is only two years since Morocco repealed a law that allowed rapists of under-age girls to escape prosecution by marrying their victims. "

A much more disturbing possibility – that some migrant men violently reject the idea of gender equality – is why the mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Year’s Eve have caused such heart-searching. Other German cities, including Hamburg, reported sex attacks on a smaller scale, while a police chief in Finland made the startling claim that migrant gangs “had similar plans” to commit sex assaults in Helsinki. He said three asylum seekers had been arrested.

Cologne’s police chief stood down on Friday, after his force faced accusations of trying to conceal the fact that some of the men involved in the assaults were migrants. The slow police response is frustrating because, more than a week after the attacks, the job of identifying men who committed mass sexual assaults is increasingly difficult; I don’t think there’s much doubt that the police failed victims and made a bad situation worse by leaving the attackers’ identities in question. But I also don’t think we should query the accounts of women who say their assailants appeared to be migrants and the attacks were organised. A leaked police report described victims being forced to “run the gauntlet” between ranks of “extremely intoxicated men”.

"There are striking parallels with what happened to women during mass demonstrations in Egypt during the Arab Spring. The CBS correspondent Lara Logan thought she was going to die after being seized and stripped by a mob, it was not an isolated incident: on a single day in 2013, more than 80 women were brutally assaulted by gangs of men during further demonstrations. In countries where women have few legal protections, some men behave as if they own the streets."

Posted by: x2lls Jan 10 2016, 01:00 AM

Oh for crying out loud, what is there to consider? Has it all been made up?
You completely ignore all the points I made and then just cherry pick the telegraph, only mentioning Syrians. It's not about Syrians in isolation. The attackers were from other regions too, mainly from islamic $hitholes where women are treated less than dogs for the pleasure of cavemen. But that's OK, they only need a chat to explain how we do things in Europe, They just had a bad start in life. That start in life is sexual repression, gender segregation, women always the victims, FGM and countless other misogynistic activity.
How on earth can hundreds of thousands of ill or uneducated people offer any sort of 'enrichment' to a western society?

Posted by: newres Jan 10 2016, 04:45 AM

None of which would be happening if we didn't bomb and invade Midde East states, yet the most vociferous complainers of Syrian "marauders" were only a few weeks ago celebrating the vote to bomb Syria. Irony?

Posted by: On the edge Jan 10 2016, 07:54 AM

Quite right. Week after week in NWN we see the results of our failed education system. Where we see exactly what happens locally. Young yob does over his girlfriend for the nth time and gets a 'discharge' because 'he's getting himself together'. Kid nips into Reading on the train without paying a couple of quid and gets massive fine. Yeah that's the European way; so long as it's behind closed doors it's OK.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 10 2016, 12:05 PM

I agree in part, but then most of the genuine Syrian refugees are escaping their own government and ISIS.
Cameron has the right idea whereby those with REAL needs should be taken in directly from the area of conflict. That goes part way to ensure the scum (and terrorist) have a lesser chance of getting through.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 10 2016, 03:48 PM

Good point.

How about a bit of lateral thinking. There is a need for resource in Syria to rebuild the infrastructure and to replace the decent ones extracted. What about exporting our home grown scum and terrorists; instead of just banging them up or 'community service'? It would answer our criminal justice system deficiencies for sure.

Posted by: Sherlock Jan 10 2016, 06:32 PM

We need to be clear that some Muslim males see kafir/infidel women and under age girls as fair game. The Rochdale, Bradford and Oxford organised abuse rings have demonstrated that. We won't solve this problem if we don't acknowledge these realities.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 10 2016, 09:38 PM

I think that's absolutely right. When, as here, there is significant evidence that an identifiable segment of the community are committing crimes well above the average then rapid corrective action is needed to staunch the problem and to stop it in the future.

However, that's not what we presently do is it?

If we did, we'd be taking drastic counter measures against disaffected make youths who abuse their partners, we'd actually see some prosecutions for FGM, we'd see some significant action to prosecute people in the financial world for 'lifting' unjustified sums of money for personal use.

It's been done before, of course. Action against football hooligans, and action against militant trades unionists, but nothing else.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 10 2016, 10:47 PM

That is entirely true, but conflating the events of New Years in Cologne with an entirely unrelated alleged rape that was reported 500km away is inflammatory and divisive - like shouting fire in a theatre. There needs to be an objective critical enquiry without the picth-forks and flaming torches. It is entirely possible that immigrants bring with them culture and behaviour that is unacceptable in their new home, but what's unacceptable is always a matter for debate, and I feel that we're still a very long way from understanding what happened at New Years.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 10 2016, 11:02 PM

I love this bloke I truly do. " It is entirely possible that immigrants bring with them culture and behaviour that is unacceptable in their new home". I would have thought sexual molestation would be unacceptable in their old home, but maybe not
"but what's unacceptable is always a matter for debate,". No, its not, really its not
"and I feel that we're still a very long way from understanding what happened at New Years.". Oh I think we do know, or, at least I believe the German people know, police chiefs don't get the Spanish Archer for no good reason.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 10 2016, 11:04 PM

In order to 'do' anything about the abhorrent activity in many aspects of our society, society in this context being the western world, we need to be able to talk openly about what concerns us without being frightened about being accused of bigotry/racism etc. As long as that happens nothing of any consequence will be achieved. That is what I am doing here. I can see by this thread that it may be a problem for some . I see that those who usually have lots to say, have not entered the discussion. I also notice, in regard to recent posts whereby women are 'apparently' dissuaded from contributing due to male domination of the forum, only men who have contributed so far.

Edits only for correction of spelling ..

Posted by: On the edge Jan 11 2016, 08:55 AM

I'll be accused of making assumptions, but nevertheless, I'd strongly suspect that most of the women who do or did post here are like the men; of a certain age. They are simply peddling old fashioned feminism; seeing discrimination at every turn. It's over, the war has been won, but as 'us men' know, some old fighters never let it drop; just like us mentioning 'the war' whenever we see Germans.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 11 2016, 09:09 AM

It is fairly obvious that the 'migrants' as a group are likely to contain a majority of fit, street wise males. Those with little to loose but much to gain. That's been true since time immemorial - even the great migrations to the States in the eighteenth century followed that.

So, then, quite apart from any humanitarian aid receiving countries might provide and quite apart from any physical barriers that might be constructed, it would make sound sense to provide a good measure of real policing. Protecting them and us.

That doesn't mean 'manning the barricades' but actually getting into the mass and keeping the peace. Not an answer to the big issue for sure, but let's face it, until that big issue is solved, they aren't going home and are just getting hotter and hotter.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 11 2016, 11:31 AM

Don't forget '66! That makes it three times!

Posted by: On the edge Jan 11 2016, 11:41 AM

Ah, but David Cameron was only born in 1966, he hasn't got us out yet

Posted by: Rdg Jan 11 2016, 12:40 PM

This is the latest from the BBC

The German official responsible for investigating the attacks on women in Cologne on New Year's Eve says the suspects were "almost exclusively" those with a migration background, mainly North African and Arab.
Ralf Jaeger accused Cologne police of making "serious mistakes".

More than 500 criminal complaints have been filed - 40% alleging sexual assault - relating to 31 December.

The Pope said Europe's "humanistic spirit" risked being undermined.
The "immense influx" of migrants was causing problems, he said, but the continent had the means to strike a balance between protecting its citizens and helping migrants.

Mr Jaeger, the state interior minister of North Rhine-Westphalia (NRW), says that recent arrivals in Germany are among the suspects.
Nineteen individuals are currently under investigation in connection with the attacks, NRW's interior ministry says in a report (in German), none of them German nationals. The 19 suspects include 14 men from Morocco and Algeria. Ten of the suspects are asylum seekers, nine of whom arrived in Germany after September 2015. The other nine are possibly in Germany illegally, the interior ministry says.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 11 2016, 01:29 PM

Again, should we be surprised? Here is a population base that is predominantly young male with no outlet for repressed energy. Similarly, let's also look at the numbers. What constitutes a sexual assault? I'm not trying to minimise anything but as we've seen in the UK in Yewtree, that could mean anything from slightly less than rape to a lewd look or comment. Yes, many migrants come from parts of the World where the treatment of women is dreadful. Even more reason why we actually need to properly police the masses whilst they are present. Similarly, publishing raw and frankly ill defined numbers is doing no one any favours. Let's look at some comparators, what is the complaints level eminating from our own disaffected youth? Similarly, what level of similar complaint eminated from football hooligans abroad in the 1970s etc? We might then get a bit of balance. Nonetheless, in the meantime, some effective policing shouldn't be beyond us.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 11 2016, 01:38 PM

And it would help refugees integrate if they were welcomed and provided with housing and allowed to support themselves. As a refugee fleeing tyranny and arriving in Blighty you are not allowed to work and have to support yourself on £5/day with nothing but the clothes you stand up in. I don't know what the situation is in Germany and I am aware that Germany has done so very much more than the UK to meet this humanitarian disaster, but the ultra-right haters staging demonstrations are hardly welcoming and no discussion of social inclusion is complete without considering this rise of fascism.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 11 2016, 03:48 PM

Like these?


Or these?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 11 2016, 06:30 PM

Keine gewalt gegen frauen? You think this is directed at immigrants? It wasn't until 1997 that Germany outlawed marital rape - until that time it was not even a crime for a husband to rape his wife, and the law didn't even recognise that men could be raped at all.

Now obviously I'm happy to think that people are starting to assert the notion that the absence of violence towards women, or anybody else for that matter, is an essential element of a civilised society - I believe it passionately, but not everyone supports that idea.

Here are some of the 5,000 neo-nazis who rioted in Cologne in 2014 - it puts the New Years events into perspective, as does the lack of any real coverage - but then there's not a black face amongst them is there.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 11 2016, 06:33 PM

Care to explain where they are from?

Posted by: spartacus Jan 11 2016, 11:55 PM

I fail to see the correlation... That photo (taken from either the http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/11/germany-faces-wave-racist-rhetoric-20141111132923544152.html or http://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2014/11/26/institutional-racism-and-structural-denial-exists-in-germany-racism-expert websites) is hardly the most frightening example of 'neo-nazis' in mid-riot.. very German too as if this is mid-riot it's very tidy and not even a broken glass or McD's wrapper on the floor... Go to any England football match and you'll see a hundred other ugly buggers wrapped in their national flag (St George optional) making faces at the camera....

Either way, if you want to 'compare and contrast' and 'put things into perspective' I think you'll find that whatever the neo-nazi thugs did is a whole mindset removed from the particular games being undertaken by the new wave of crimmigrants that Merkel has invited into her home. New Years Eve in Koln and in a number of other large german towns saw a wave of violent attacks against women in a specific 'mob activity' gaining momentum and now being given a name of Taharrush gamea in the http://www.express.de/koeln/silvester-mob-das-grauen-hat-einen-namen--taharrush-gamea-23406268. This is a cultural thing and is becoming endemic as white women as seen as fair game at night in a large crowd and the perpetrators see that they can get away with attacking women as there are just too many people pulling and groping and attacking the women for them to be prosecuted.



Video links are available but frankly they're NSFW.
Not many black faces in the 'Taharrush' thing.... it seems to be a particularly arab activity where women are no more deserving of respect than a donkey needing a kick..... If you dress 'respectably' and wear a hijab or go the whole hog and trundle around in a burqah you will be unharmed, but if you are in western dress then you are in for a rough time..... Coming to a square near you.....

Posted by: spartacus Jan 12 2016, 12:34 AM

There are a lot of jangling nerves for the organisers of this year's Karneval, which is a major celebration in the Koln and Dusseldorf area of Germany. The new police chief will be keen to stay in his post, so policing will be 'robust' but at the same time they are trying to allow Germans and visitors to enjoy Fasching and get hammered.... getting the balance will be interesting to see and on 4 Feb (start of Karneval) I suspect there will be an ugly side and added tension this year which could start to see Mutti's Grand Plan of open-armed multi-culturalism unravel

Posted by: On the edge Jan 12 2016, 09:17 AM

I see, in summary I think you are suggesting that the actions of disaffected young thugs in Germany or indeed here are in no way similar to the same sort of behaviours we see sometimes in disaffected immigrants? A stretch too far me thinks!

Frankly, it seems to me that it's a convenient political excuse to 'big up' what's happening with the immigrants because it covers a more dangerous and issue at home. Not the only place that's happening!

Just as an aside, on the subject of 'migrant labour'. I overheard a conversation which centred on the number of Indians seen in Newbury, who seem to be working close by. Someone then said it wasn't surprising really as big V had sold them the off shoot for whom they are working!

Now that's going to be interesting isn't it George, now you and your clever predecessors have flogged off British industry. It seems that the migrant worker tide isn't going to turn...

Posted by: James_Trinder Jan 12 2016, 12:02 PM

This reminds me of when I went to Bamberg (a Newbury sized town in Bavaria) with my parents when I was younger. We were walking past the central railway station when a car full of youths blaring out loud music came to a sudden stop near us. Unexpectedly one of the lads carefully deposited an empty can of beer into the bin before getting back into the car, which drove off at speed again.

I doubt that this would ever happen anywhere in the UK.

Posted by: The Hatter Jan 12 2016, 07:05 PM

Not on Turnpike where it looks as if the bin men deliver these days.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 13 2016, 03:22 PM

We can shout and scream as much as we like, but still the masses will come. Sure, we can fence off and guard the tunnel and erect a fence along the French coast, they'll still come. If not Calais, then see what happens once they realise Rotterdam etc might be an easier path. I wonder how calm we'll be next summer when the real consequences of the Osbo economic wonder starts to take effect.

What is our plan for making the places they come from economically viable so 'migrants' actually don't want to leave?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 13 2016, 06:38 PM

Pill boxes, razor wire, attack dogs, lots of things we haven't tried yet.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 13 2016, 06:42 PM

Yet more consequences of the immigrant tide,
http://metro.co.uk/2016/01/13/jews-in-france-told-to-hide-their-identity-until-better-days-5621427/

Posted by: On the edge Jan 13 2016, 09:23 PM

Eek! Have the killer bees started to arrive yet? Apparently in the US, 'Corbyn' could be the CIA code word for an invasion from outer space. Makes you think doesn't it!

Don't panic Mr Mainwairing, they don't like it up 'em.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 14 2016, 12:19 AM

Glad to see someone is keeping the beer industry going.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 14 2016, 12:30 AM

German women told to change their lifestyle, Jews advised not to wear the kippa.

What next I wonder.

Another nail in the coffin of freedom to live our lives as we wish.

Posted by: newres Jan 14 2016, 07:13 AM

In your world though, they won't be any safer as Christians because they hate us all and just want to kill us. We're not safe anywhere. Get a grip. No wonder no one hangs around here, it's full of Daily Mail reading little Englanders.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 14 2016, 07:37 AM

Full?

Posted by: On the edge Jan 14 2016, 08:42 AM

Some people moved into the empty house at the end of our street a few weeks back. Word is, they have come from Tilehurst. We've just put a new lock on the back door and make sure the car doors are locked inside even when we drive to get our paper. Just a few simple precautions and we've had no trouble. As for the Daily Mail, it got a bit much for us; all that reading takes too long.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 14 2016, 08:43 AM

Agreed! There is plenty of room here.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 14 2016, 11:23 AM

Good for you, you never know do you? Still, I would have bought a big dog. Can't be too sure, Tilehursters!? Gotta be careful, ain't yer!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 14 2016, 05:28 PM

When PIRA was up to no-good on the mainland, perhaps we should have stopped the Irish from coming here 'until we found out what the clucking bell was going on'?

Posted by: Sherlock Jan 14 2016, 08:58 PM

You chaps might like to bone up on the "regressive left". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_left

Essentially apologists for the radical Islamists, the regressive leftists blame their extremism and atrocities entirely on the West's interventions in the Middle East rather than the teachings of their religion. As the American comedian and talk show host Bill Maher suggests, they have "a willingness to criticise anything except Islam, excusing it as "their culture".

This is very much Jeremy Corbyn's world view, of course, hence his reluctance to endorse the use of force against those who are intent on harming us.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 14 2016, 09:39 PM

No, it's not religion, let's be honest, it's simply economics, commerce. 'Twas the only reason we had an Empire. We used to be at daggers drawn with the USSR and its avowed atheist regime, just as we are with Zimbabwe. In both cases no ordinance lobbed simply because they haven't got anything we want that much. We're chasing the money God. Sure, Labour are against unnecessary armed conflict, so ironically was Churchill 'jaw jaw is infinitely more preferable than war war'.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 15 2016, 01:11 AM

Towns in Rhineland are now cancelling their annual Karneval processions, making direct references to the 'unpleasantness' that took place in Koln. If you know how important Fasching is to the average Rhinelander then you might some idea of how well this is going down in those parts of Germany. The start of a cultural surrender to Islam.

Posted by: newres Jan 15 2016, 07:10 AM

Not sure about that. In my case I find the sorts of things they do barbaric and incomprehensible. I wouldn't blame their religion necessarily, but more where they are in the evolution of people's or states. They are basically where we were in Tudor times. However, I blame our governments for stirring up a hornet's nest by invading and supporting the rebellions and I blame our media for brainwashing our population into thinking we are innocents in this and should not take responsibility for what we've done.

And how can anyone excuse the invasion of Iraq which seems to have been an intervention too far?

Posted by: On the edge Jan 15 2016, 07:14 AM

Sure, but actually its a surrender to panic and it happens every time such situations occur. Exactly the same type of response occurred at the hight of the Irish troubles here. Evens were cancelled, members of HM forces were asked not to wear uniforms, anyone with an Irish accent was looked on with suspicion etc. etc. etc. Its down to 'us the people' not to let that happen; but I wonder how many will band together to do that? For instance; would we let the Racecource suspend racing because they were told WBC feared a possible attack?

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 12:33 AM

How on earth you can you make any such comparison with the Irish troubles and today's issues just beggars belief.

Your interpretation is utter rubbish and is the best example of blindfolded stupidity.
Do you really think that a potential terrorist attack would be announced by WBC? LMFAO!!!

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 01:03 AM

Ouch Sparty!, u said the I word. You must be a follower of Pat Condell.


As I said on a previous post, 'What next'
This was next

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35326090
But not before some leftie t.w.a.t stated that lorry drivers who didn't want to have their lorries raided by violent morons in Calais should go get other jobs. FFS.
Even Murky is back tracking now.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 16 2016, 01:24 AM

How is it rubbish? Can you explain why it is wrong?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 16 2016, 01:26 AM

We get what we* sow.

*Government, electorate, etc.


It seems to me you are indulging in confirmation bias.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 01:33 AM

If that is the case, perhaps you can provide the alternative view?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 16 2016, 01:35 AM

OK. Groups of young adult men can be ahsoles, regardless of culture, religion or skin colour.


We have anecdotal examples of middle eastern men making themselves a nuisance amongst the population. While this might be true, it pales into insignificance the misery the west has heaped on where they have come from.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 01:56 AM

Making themselves a nuisance. You have no idea how much that says. It is no coincidence that those poor women have been subjected to such mass , yes, mass barbarity only since merky allowed uncontrolled admission with no forethought or planning.

Make your mind up , either it's anecdotal, or true.

Yeah, lets blame the west for all the crap that innocent women in many countries have been subject to rape/assault etc.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 16 2016, 02:04 AM

That isn't my argument. You are focused on a section of the population for your ire; however, my view is: while we, the west, bomb and impoverish hundreds of thousands, we can hardly claim the moral high ground. So in other words, I feel you are being unreasonably selective about who you feel are the baddies.


I do agree that the refugee/immigration surge has been a cluster ferk, it was predicted, but nothing was done but sit back a gloat at our former enemies getting their comeuppance. Notwithstanding, while there are a few thousand who are nasty pieces of work, there are hundreds of thousands who are not and needed our help. It would be cowardice to have denied the many refuge, because we 'feared' the few, or can't police the 'few'.

Just when you need something like the EU they have failed. Just like they failed us with the banking crisis.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 02:19 AM

Yes, I'm pleased you offer me the chance.

The Irish troubles were UK based, not global/western-Middle east.
Mass immigration was not the issue.
The IRA didn't attack western (or eastern) women on mass with their ill educated D.i.c.k.s.
The IRA argument didn't/don't base a fairy story belief on a pedophile marrying a nine year old.
Yes, the IRA went the awful, route of violence, which can never be excused. A positive and peaceful result was eventually reached through dialogue.


My fingers ache

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 16 2016, 02:25 AM

Change of mind. It is too late.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 16 2016, 07:35 AM

Well, at at least its not blind hatred.

I'm sorry you can't see the implications, or indeed why I used WBC as the body issuing such a suggestion. Of course WBC wouldn't announce an attack, but they would give advice and instruction to public event promoters, that's their job. There is no point in explaining any further.

We are presently remembering what happened 100 years ago at the moment. When the press was reporting that German soldiers were bayoneting babies and cutting breasts off women and so inflaming the same passions. They weren't following any religious belief; but simply wanted to expand their nation.

We like to think we are now immune to jingoism, clearly that's not the case..

Posted by: x2lls Jan 16 2016, 10:58 AM

A 100 years ago we didn't have the news sources we have today. The population didn't have access to the media outlets that are now available.

Posted by: Phil Jan 16 2016, 11:27 AM

Posted by: newres Jan 16 2016, 12:18 PM

What's that got to do with it? The message got out of supposed German atrocities and it inflamed passions and drove recruitment and support for the war. In exactly the same way that all the current hype is doing. I remember during the Falklands War all the boneheads queueing up at recruitment centres. I remember being surprised in that I assumed the population was less inclined to "go over the top".

Posted by: On the edge Jan 16 2016, 01:13 PM

We have far more media delivery but ironically rather fewer disinterested reporters.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 23 2016, 02:00 AM

Perhaps we should be looking at the alternatives. No one ever said that you only get news credibility from 'official' media outlets.
Since when did a business based on historical paper get preferential attention?
Just look up and listen in it's entirety, the video by a 16 year old girl from Germany.

Bibi Wilhailm

Yeah Yeah Yeah, you chose a source to back up your argument I hear, but we all do that.
Yes. One example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1gQutr8qy4

I suggest, if you are to respond to my post, you find alternatives to counter.

Posted by: On the edge Jan 23 2016, 06:59 AM

...and play electronic tennis? What would be the point of that?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 23 2016, 11:05 AM

The old confirmation bias trick! 😋

Posted by: x2lls Jan 23 2016, 01:57 PM

I've already answered that old chestnut.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 23 2016, 02:23 PM

The uncorroborated testimony of a fifteen year old is hardly something to build an argument on, and while the child may genuinely fear Islamic foreigners that's not evidence of anything other than the child's fear.

And as you asked for counter-examples, http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/17097/Man-attacked-in-Newbury-town-centre.html - a Thatcham man up in court for attacking people outside a Newbury pub. That might be enough to reinforce a fear of people from Thatcham in some of the more delicate denizens of this fair parish.

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 23 2016, 08:26 PM

I don't think you have.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 30 2016, 11:15 AM

Labours take on the matter,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12131320/Labour-MP-faces-calls-to-resign-after-comparing-Cologne-attacks-to-Birmingham-night-out.html

Posted by: Exhausted Jan 30 2016, 12:24 PM

As a politician, she should know better than to make generalised statements. She is however an individual and has probably watched a few UK police specials on TV and seen what she thinks is sexual harassment on a major scale. I suspect that in some instances, the alcohol consumed by both sexes has an effect on their behaviour towards each other and she should have realised that there is a mile of difference between that possibly mutual behaviour after a night out and the downright anti woman attitude of the middle eastern men who are raised to believe that women are chattel and can be treated as such. She should be taken aside by her party and given some severe retraining as to what are the facts and how she needs to portray them rather than trying to dumb it down by unfair comparisons.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Jan 30 2016, 06:43 PM

The Torygraph bellows about "organised sexual assaults committed by gangs of migrants in Cologne", but have they presented evidence for that, or is it just a good old-fashioned blood libel? We've seen already how those with an agenda have hyped the incident by conflating it with the unrelated alleged rape of a girl 500km away, and this week Russia upped the tension with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov making an international incident over the alleged rape of a 13 year old Russian immigrant in Germany by what Russian television alleged to be asylum seekers, which now turns out to have been a fabrication.

The refugee crisis is a humanitarian disaster, but rather than coming to the aid of our fellow human beings, haters are casting these poor unfortunates as inhuman, wicked, undeserving, and dangerous - the conditions for these refugees are utterly intolerable, but we're turning a blind eye to their suffering, and in Holocaust remembrance week it's a sharp reminder of how easy it is for people to behave with brutality towards their fellow humans when they listen to the haters and stop thinking of them as people.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 30 2016, 06:47 PM

Doesn't make it any less true though, I think it a bit richfor you to talk of 'agenda's'.

Posted by: spartacus Jan 30 2016, 06:54 PM

Alternatively she could try visiting Germany in a few weeks time.... and hope that Karneval doesn't become a taharrush gamea event for the recently welcomed ausländer. That would be nothing like Birmingham on a Saturday night.

Many Germans are worried about the security for their Karneval weekends when cities in the Rheinland in particular are geared up for beer festivals where men and women imbibe a few. All possibility that things could get more nasty than they already are...

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 30 2016, 06:56 PM

Or try Sweden, where gangs of men are taking to the streets in the wake of the murder of a young woman.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 30 2016, 07:15 PM

So what was the take on it in The Morning Star?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 30 2016, 07:37 PM

A 'red rag' to a bull!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 30 2016, 10:02 PM

Ghadaffi knew. He warned the west.

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 30 2016, 11:04 PM

And did we listen?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 30 2016, 11:15 PM

...Shiite


Stand forth the saviour!

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 1 2016, 02:05 AM

[quote name='Simon Kirby' date='Jan 30 2016, 06:43 PM' post='108069']
The Torygraph bellows about "organised sexual assaults committed by gangs of migrants in Cologne", but have they presented evidence for that, or is it just a good old-fashioned blood libel?
[/quote
"Police had registered 516 complaints, and, according to officials, many of those accused were of North African origin, which has led some to demand that the government re-evaluate its asylum policy."

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 1 2016, 02:09 AM

"Police had registered 516 complaints, and, according to officials, many of those accused were of North African origin, which has led some to demand that the government re-evaluate its asylum policy. "

Source? Torygraph? Daily Wail? Swivel eyed loon weekly? Actually it was Aljazeera. Hmmm, thinks!

Posted by: The Hatter Feb 1 2016, 08:23 AM

Lots of people thought Lord Haw Haw was a truthful too.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 1 2016, 08:51 AM

That's a higher number than I've seen elsewhere, but yes, it would appear that there were a large number of assaults. However, that's not what I'm challenging; the Torygraph assertion that you quoted is that these assaults were organised, and that's a serious accusation, because rather than the casual unpleasantness of some pretty horrible individuals which is what this looks like the insinuation is that this was an organised attack by some enemy-within. What does appear to have been organised however is the blood-libel against North Africans, inciting some pretty horrible people to take to the streets, and dehumanising the waves of refugees who are suffering pitifully and continuing to drown in the Adriatic - now that is an injustice that should provoke a street protest.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 1 2016, 10:04 PM

Class deflection there, I nearly missed it.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 2 2016, 02:12 AM

Kind of take your point, however Der Spiegel also described it thus,

"On New Year's Eve in Cologne, it was -- according to numerous witness reports -- drunk young men from North Africa who formed gangs to go after defenseless individuals. They humiliated and robbed -- and they sexually assaulted women."

Note use of the words "who formed gangs" so it wasn't just the 'Torygraph' it was also a respected German news magazine with a rep for its journalism. But whatever, I'm going to leave it there and lets see what pans out.

Posted by: newres Feb 2 2016, 06:52 AM

I think there is quite a difference between drunks ganging up and organised violence. For a start, one suggests pre-planning and the other suggests spontaneity. The inter web is full of people on forums who are full of fear which has been whipped up by the media. Some of them are rabid. It's actually quite disturbing to see such a lack of empathy. I have no time for drunken gangs, but it's the way the behaviour of these drunks is being used to tarnish those fleeing war and a whole religion.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 2 2016, 07:56 AM

My feelings too.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 2 2016, 10:52 AM

Notwithstanding that the original issue seems to be of inadequate policing, but like many things in life, I would imagine the truth lies between the two opinions.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 2 2016, 12:33 PM

Well I'm sure they won't be taking any further chances on that score. Leading no doubt to claims from some of "a heavy handed response"!

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 2 2016, 07:53 PM

Run to the hills 'they're' here!!!

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/home/17194/Suspected-illegal-immigrants-arrested-in-West.html

Posted by: spartacus Feb 2 2016, 09:21 PM

"Lock up your daughters" more like.....

Posted by: spartacus Feb 2 2016, 09:23 PM

...it must have been quite a disappointment for them when they stepped out of the truck in Thatcham....

I'm surprised they didn't take one quick look around before jumping back on board, slowly closing the lorry doors behind them and hope nobody noticed....

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 2 2016, 10:15 PM

Should have simply sent them round to chez Simon, I'm sure he would have found space for them. Little scamps.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 2 2016, 10:21 PM

Hey, look at you with your pitchfork, right little agriculturalist, you should get an allotment...

Posted by: x2lls Feb 2 2016, 10:46 PM

my bad, **** up

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 3 2016, 12:18 AM

Lolz

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 3 2016, 12:21 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/02/google-pilot-extremist-anti-radicalisation-information
Err, like, that'll work, yeah? OK?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2016, 05:38 PM

Sorry, but why have you posted this link here? Are you saying that you believe the casual street groping in Cologne was some kind of orchestrated radicalised Islamic terror plot?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 3 2016, 05:56 PM

I luv the way you manage to declassify serious sexual assault to "casual street groping" the party's you must go to!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 3 2016, 06:59 PM

Sorry, but why have you posted that link here? Are you saying that you believe the casual street groping in Cologne was some kind of orchestrated radicalised Islamic terror plot?

Posted by: x2lls Feb 3 2016, 07:38 PM

Casual street groping? in a multitude of cities across europe.

As opposed to what exactly? An appointment?

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 4 2016, 09:14 AM

Wow
Nice!
I'm off down town to do a bit of casual street groping.
(I was unaware that was acceptable now in Western Europe. I'd better warn my daughter!)
I'll report back and let you know how long it took before I was arrested!!

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 4 2016, 10:44 AM

Casual, as opposed to causal - the point at issue here is whether the street groping was an orchestrated radicalised Islamic terror plot, or whether it was simply lawlessness. No one is disputing that the events were pretty horrible, my objection is that they are being hyped to promote a xenophobic agenda. As I said here:

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 4 2016, 11:30 AM

Where was it said or implied it was acceptable? Bear in mind the adjective 'casual' means two things: light-hearted or temporary.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 4 2016, 03:10 PM

Well Andy, some people feel its "a matter for debate"

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 4 2016, 03:44 PM

Of course it is, and it is. I think if 'we' adopt aggressive foreign policy, whether militarily or commercially, we have to consider the consequences. Also, if we are to 'swing the doors open' as some would have us do, we have to make preparations for that.

There was something bad that happened on NYE, but we shouldn't lose perspective and allow anecdotal examples to fuel confirmation bias.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 4 2016, 08:57 PM

Don't take my comments out of context. Like you, Sherlock had tried to broaden the argument, and I was challenging that, and was not excusing what was reportedly a pretty unpleasant event in Cologne:


It may be true that North Africans are culturally less respectful towards women, I don't know; I think it would be dangerous to judge that on superficial evidence, and dangerous too to judge other cultures from what is a very fluid basis of our own cultural identity, mores, and values, or rather from a German cultural point of view which I understand just as poorly as the North African one.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 4 2016, 09:41 PM

I think it's called 'critical thinking'.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 5 2016, 09:22 AM

Simon.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 5 2016, 09:39 AM

Yes, I can see how what I said could be taken as excusing violent lawlessness, though that wasn't what I was arguing. I said:


As it happens I deplore hatred and violence, but I want to understand the events of Cologne better before I condemn North African immigrants as intrinsically anti-social and misogynistic, and my point here is that is the starting point for many and they're supporting the facts with their argument rather than the other way round.

You may find the idea uncomfortable but what's acceptable is always a matter for debate, and what concerns me is how hatred and violence can become acceptable. No better example than Kristallnacht, and I see many parallels with our present situation with the re-emergence of ultra-nationalism, blood-libel, and intolerance.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 5 2016, 05:11 PM

I have not read anywhere where he did that. Would you please paste the sentence?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 5 2016, 05:13 PM

People can take anything anyone said and form it into what they think someone said; unfortunately many (I am sometimes guilty too) will read what they expect, not what is said or meant.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 5 2016, 05:28 PM

Cheers.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 6 2016, 09:38 AM

The term "casual street groping" speaks for itself surely.
When "street groping" is termed as "casual" then, ipso facto, it is acceptable.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 6 2016, 09:53 AM

It also belittles the victims as well as the act of what was, in fact, a series of very nasty sex crimes. I wonder if some people would be quite as blase about this if it were their mothers / wives / daughters who had been assaulted?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 6 2016, 10:30 AM

The accusations being made were that the street violence was organised, I have seen no evidence for that and was very clearly making the point that I believed the street groping to be casual, as opposed to causal, that is spontaneous and independent and not orchestrated. I've said that already, but you insist on misinterpreting what I said, suggesting that I am less than sympatetic towards those assaulted, but Ihave every sympathy, as I have very clearly said, the reports of the incident paint a distressing and pretty unpleasant picture - but the evidence does not support the wild allegation that this is some organised pan-European Islamic terror plot, and in the context of urban crime it would not appear to be that unusual. Again for clarity, that is not being anything less than sympathetic as I abhor violence and antisociality, but there is little to distinguish the events of New Year in Cologne from the casual street violence to be found in virtualy every town in Europe on the odd night of the year, Newbury included, but what stands out with Cologne is the North African element - of an unruly crowd of 1000 the reports suggest some 30 or so of those detained were of one foreign nationality or another, and this has been jumped on by those with an anti-foreigner agenda, an agenda that certainly does include organised street violence, and as much as I deplore the casual street groping that made Cologne 2016 a deeply unpleasant experience for some I also have much concern for the 1,000,000 displaced persons recently arrived in Europe to an increasingly hostile reception being housed in shanty camps with virtually no security or dignity - I think about how I would feel if that was me and my family and it is just to desparate to contemplate.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 6 2016, 12:38 PM

As you've previously explained, it's the word 'casual' and it's interpretation in this context that is confusing.

The most common definition for 'casual' would be when it's used to described an act that's "relaxed and unconcerned".

I think you used the word with it's other definition, which is when something is 'irregular'. 'Casual shoes' or 'casual clothes' for instance (as opposed to clothes for formal occasions). 'Casual sex' can also be the 'irregular' interpretation, but describing the Cologne incidents as 'casual groping' is where the confusion comes in. If you'd described it as 'random groping' we'd have understood what you meant without thinking it so offensive.

Random groping though, by a hundred odd tanked up blokes (whether immigrants or not), would have been a very scary event to have gone through for these women (some were badly assaulted)

The 'random groping events' are however on the increase according to much of the German press....

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 6 2016, 02:59 PM

Casual was perhaps the wrong word. I meant it very specifically - I'm a physicist by training and the casual/causal distinction is a thing you talk about, as with radioactive decay, to differentiate between something chance and spontaneous, and something initiated or excited. I tend to use the word meaning just that, but I recognise that it's maybe not everyone's understanding of what the word can mean.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 6 2016, 05:13 PM

I'm getting totally confused with these definitions. Is what's going on in Germany really 'clubbing' which is what happens in Spain when our lads go on holiday?

Posted by: On the edge Feb 6 2016, 05:28 PM

http://www.newburytoday.co.uk/news/news/17232/Horror-as-gangs-clash-in-town.html

Phew! They don't seem to be on the grope, so no immigrant problem here yet!

Posted by: spartacus Feb 6 2016, 10:09 PM

Scrapping between blokes happens in every town on every weekend to a greater or lesser extent than in our little market town.

OTE, this ain't 'clubbing' by pissed up british lads abroad.

'Collective sexual harrassment', (or casual groping) is nothing like scrapping as a fun way to end an evening. Check out taharrush jamai on Wiki. Or check the words out on YouTube. A Dutch female journalist found out the meaning of this Arabic expression, as did the American journalist Lara Logan. Both women are still recovering from their injuries several years after the event.

It's a particular pastime carried out by arab males who see women as easy targets to get some sexual jollies without any comeback. They're in Europe now in considerable numbers. Lone males in a different culture where women are allowed to dress as they want.

There have already been several 'events' in Germany in January where young girls/women have been assaulted. Once the weather improves and girls wear less these incidents are bound to increase. Several German towns have banned Immigrants from their public swimming pools. Tensions are building.....

Posted by: On the edge Feb 6 2016, 10:35 PM

Oh good. I'm beginning to see. Presumably, they might be the older brothers of the hordes of unaccompanied 'children' who are streaming in. The truth is always the first victim of conflict and what easier way is there than to re-define words. I have absolutely no doubt some awful things are happening, right now, in Germany and elsewhere. Just as they are in many other places - which is why some contemplation is needed.

Ironic, you mention a couple of people who won't get over their injuries. I personally know someone similarly injured in a little English town, not too far from here, by our good old English lads out on the razz. She just got in the way, I'm sure they didn't mean it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 7 2016, 12:28 PM

That's not true. I believe the phrase is ill advised, but it is untrue to say he thinks it is acceptable.

Posted by: newres Feb 7 2016, 01:46 PM

Yeah, but it's the Daily Mail mentality isn't it? Avoid debate by ridiculing.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 7 2016, 08:57 PM

I think the term is "sarcasm".
Also your obsession with those who read a certain very popular daily organ is strange.
Why drag the readership of a particular publication into the argument?
With the second largest circulation in the UK you are demonising a large number of people.
Are you with the most popular of them all .................the tittyfalarious SUN?
Or the celebrity fanzine The Star?

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread, but this targeting of a certain section of the population with accusations of limited intelligence because of their reading habits I find irksome.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 7 2016, 09:36 PM

Sorry, but wasn't it the Daily Wail that propogated the taharrush moral panic?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 7 2016, 11:18 PM

When the idiots (I am one) vote us out of Europe I'm not quite sure what the guardian readers will do. Hopefully f@@k off to Germany where they can get a dose of the new European dream.....

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 7 2016, 11:41 PM

And the Spectator, oh, the India times carried it as well.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 8 2016, 08:45 AM

And there you go again.
How do you know how many papers anyone reads? I read at least three, sometimes four. All found in the restaurant at work. I assume by that logic, which ever one I am reading at the time you see me reading one, will be the one that agrees with my political views?

Posted by: On the edge Feb 8 2016, 09:39 AM

Well. gentlemen! Indeed, there we go again.

And who says we are not of a certain age....all reading traditional newspapers and apparently in print.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 8 2016, 09:43 AM

But wasn't it the Daily Hail that propogated this particulat moral panic?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 8 2016, 09:44 AM

Some might say it works the other way round.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 8 2016, 11:26 AM

About that. No one has attacked the intelligence of the Hate Mail's readership, the attack was on the mentality, not mental ability.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 8 2016, 11:38 AM

It suits his oh so clever political snidery to keep pulling this out of his bottom drawer. It illustrates the desperation of his argument. Shame really 'cos he's really quite a clever man.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 8 2016, 12:31 PM

What exactly did he 'pull out of the draw?' How is his argument 'desperate'?

To me, Simon's argument isn't really that clear, but then again, nor is anyone elses. The gist of Simon's argument is that we shouldn't believe everything we read and that some parts for the media indulge in stoking resentment by appealing to people's fear and 'casual racism'.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 8 2016, 10:11 PM

No.

They didn't make the name up and the leading national newspapers in Germany reported at the time that the incidents in Cologne were reminiscent of the Cairo assaults (where the term originates). ...serious newspapers, not just the news magazines which are more popular such as der Spiegel and Stern. The German agencies are dealing with the people involved directly in their camps and it is from those camps that worried immigrants reported that significant numbers of young men were intending causing problems that night (and in many other German towns)

Posted by: spartacus Feb 8 2016, 10:27 PM

You missed out Daily Fail....oh, and Daily Heil.... I'm sure half the people who like to denounce this popular newspaper secretly have a DM online subscription just so they can vent in the privacy of their own homes... quite tedious really...

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 9 2016, 12:04 AM

I think it is wrong to single out the DM; most mainstream papers spout cobblers, although the DM and often the DT are the best at headline grabbing for the 'casual racists'.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 9 2016, 12:07 AM

He didn't say they did...









I'm getting a bit confused here. Can we summarise what our position is on all this?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 9 2016, 01:42 PM

I thought you hadn't noticed.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 9 2016, 05:14 PM

tbh I can't remember the last time I bought an actual newspaper - other than the local rag (I'm sure our ever present Admin would be pleased with me). So much news online these days, or you get free papers with your shopping that there hasn't seemed to be a need for me. If a paper is lying around and it's the Daily Mail I wouldn't get all sniffy about it and refuse to turn the pages. Give me the DM over the Morning Star anyway - although they both make as good firelighters for my wood burner.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 10 2016, 02:35 PM

There is an interesting theme developing here. Whilst we are arguing about the accuracy or otherwise of the reporting of immigrant behaviours, nothing much else is happening to put matters right so to speak. The immigrant issue will run and run, opinions are polarised, so a real solution is way off.

The issue is also gradually being added to the in/out Europe debate - which is now nicely burning away. To many people, the question to be answered is yes and immigration versus no and closed boarders.

It must also be very clear to David Cameron, who is not by any stretch of the imagination unintelligent, that the 'solution' he had negotiated with the EU leaders is a long way from satisfying even his moderate nay saying party members.

Similarly, it must also be beginning to dawn on Germany - the real EU leadership, that the single currency and an EU with the number of economically weak members it has is not sustainable and might, just might even drag Germany down. That's as it is now, let alone if other states want to join.

I'm beginning to think that in reality, our leader and his opposite number in Germany wouldn't be at all unhappy if we did vote no. I have to say, I'd go with that.

So I get the feeling that the problem we are discussing here is actually part of the smoke screen. Just a thought.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 10 2016, 05:33 PM

I was interested to hear the other day that the UKIP solution - being part of a free trade area with the EU while not being a member of the EU - is actually no solution to the immigration issue. Two countries, Norway and Switzerland, already have such a free trade system - in order to get it they had to accept free movement of EU citizens over their borders with all the rights to work etc that we currently offer as an EU member.

So it's yes and open borders v no and open borders.

Posted by: On the edge Feb 10 2016, 05:58 PM

That may well be so, but I somehow doubt if it will be given much prominence in our media/political statements. Spin doctoring isn't a dead trade, its now a respectable profession.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 10 2016, 11:59 PM

The latest,

"The disgusting list of crimes reported in the German city run to a staggering 821 complaints, and range from sexual assaults to gang rape."

When including reported attacks from all of the major cities in the North Rhine-Westphalia state - including Cologne, Dusseldorf, Dortmund and Bielefeld - the complaint figure is said to almost top 1,000.


A shocking 359 complaints relate to sexual offences, while 659 women were recorded as alleged victims, according to the list finally published by NRW state government.

It also revealed 126 claims of "rape by a group" and 47 allegations of "sexual assault by a group".

The release of the full list follows repeated claims of a cover up by German authorities and media.

Posted by: Berkshirelad Feb 11 2016, 09:53 AM

But not Switzerland.

As for the scare-mongering over having a 'Jungle' at Folkstone there are two major issues with this spin-story:

1. There are no refugees from France - only economic migrants. France is not a oppressive state and there is no requirement to admit refugees from France;
2. The border agreement is a bilateral treaty between UK and France and is nothing to do with the EU. The French Prime Minister has already made it clear that it would stay regardless of the outcome of UK's EU referendum

Whether we leave the EU or not, the EU cannot put tariffs on our goods - the WTO is the responsible body; not the EU.


Also, we would be free to trade with the Commonwealth and join NAFTA.

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 11 2016, 10:53 AM

Plus, as a result we could also have (if we had any sense) proper customs and immigration checkpoints at ALL points of entry, this would have the secondary effect of catching some of the scum who profit from the smuggling of drugs and guns which help fuel the crime wars going on in all of our cities today.

Posted by: blackdog Feb 14 2016, 06:15 PM

If we leave the EU we would have to negotiate a new customs agreement with the EU which operates a Common Customs Tariff (common to all EU members).

The WTO does not set tariffs but does offer an arbitration service if a country feels another is imposing an unfair tariff. The WTO is keen to promote free trade and the lowering of customs tariffs.

The EU would not accept free trade with us if it thinks we (businesses in the UK) could take advantage of it to undermine an EU industry - odds are that we would have to retain the Common Customs Tariff (CCT) or something very close to it.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 15 2016, 07:51 PM

Interesting article unless you're a swivel-eyed 'little Englander'

"Cologne was full of Caucasian drunks acting with the same kind of macho abandon which contributes to some half a million adults being sexually assaulted in England and Wales alone each year. "

"On Friday, the Cologne prosecutor Ulrich Bremer in fact told me that, of the 59 suspects pinpointed so far, just four are from war-torn countries (Syria and Iraq), only 14 are in custody, and nobody has yet been charged. Nearly 600 hours of CCTV reveals very little, and there is no evidence whatsoever that the alleged attacks were planned in advance."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 15 2016, 08:02 PM

Interesting. There was some unpleasantness for sure, but it would seem that the problem was people. Not particularly foreign people, just people.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 15 2016, 11:41 PM

It seems that the British press are unable to replicate the actual news from foreign language countries. The Independent has printed a report on a briefing from Ulrich Bremer which is quite different from the German press...

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 16 2016, 02:03 AM

Directly at odds with this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/cologne-prosecutor-majority-suspects-asylum-seekers-135156726.html

Funny how some people choose to ignore some news sources when it suits.

http://www.thelocal.de/20160215/reports-of-three-refugees-in-cologne-attacks-wrong

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 16 2016, 03:56 AM

What we can conclude is that there is too much misinformation to form a proper opinion.

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 16 2016, 07:25 AM

I'd noticed that about you too.

Posted by: spartacus Feb 16 2016, 07:47 AM

The Independent chose to word their report with a bias that implied it had little to do with the refugee situation by starting with the comment about drunk Caucasians then going on to say that only four of those implicated were from 'war torn countries'. .......Leaving out the detail that Bremer had actually said 73 were identified and the majority were from Morocco and AlgerIa. Not 'war torn' I grant you but not German nationals either....... or Caucasians.....

The fact that even the Guardian didn't report this briefing in this way suggests that Independent reporter Nabila Ramdani (who happens to be Algerian) may be being economical with the truth and avoiding the Moroccan and AlgerIan link to the story..

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE!!
**Newspapers with an agenda can twist the truth**...<shocker>

Posted by: spartacus Feb 16 2016, 08:55 AM

The piece was written by Nabila Ramdani. Perhaps I am a little Englander, but her articles seldom stray from a particular theme and as she's French AlgerIan she was never likely to implicate 'north Africans' from either Algeria, Morocco or Tunisia in her article.... despite those being the places mentioned by Herr Bremer.

Posted by: Biker1 Feb 16 2016, 09:59 AM

I know you use the term in jest Andy and this is not a criticism of you, but I feel that the more that terms like this are used to describe a cross section of the populous who have certain views, then the more chance there is of a vote in favour of leaving the EU.
Maybe wrong, probably am, but just a thought.

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 16 2016, 01:10 PM

It was meant in jest, but based on perceived fact. I too have reservations and I feel opening the flood gates was ill advised, but there was a humanitarian imperative behind this. And considering a lot of this was of our governments' doing, there is an obligation to get involved.

It might be that certain cultures are yet to 'mature', but if one is to be critical of another, it is reasonable to make sure one's own is innocent, and despite what appears to be almost medieval attitudes in some parts of the world, I think our 'mature' society is lacking in areas too.

I would like to add that 'Internet link tennis' has little value as with all things it is easy to indulge in confirmation bias.

For my part, I like to think I remain open minded about the whole affair.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 17 2016, 09:24 PM

So what happens if "Dave" reaches a deal... we vote Yes and then the EU parliament throws it out?

I can see this happening and the EU basically laughing at us.

Dave would then say we had voted to "stay" even though we'd been voting on what he'd agreed.

Surely the vote should be delayed until AFTER our "deal" had been ratified.

Does it have to be in June? Surely we could wait.....

Posted by: x2lls Feb 17 2016, 10:22 PM

What would convince you which side of the fence to jump?

Posted by: Simon Kirby Feb 17 2016, 10:51 PM

TD&H, you see a correlation between this moral panic and the UK's membership of the EU?

Posted by: x2lls Feb 17 2016, 11:36 PM

How long do you intend to be 'open minded'?
If we only went forward based on our own guilt (perceived), we would be going backward.
You are the most proficient member of this forum who has everything to comment on, yet 'actually' say nothing that defines an 'actual', concrete opinion.

You have great skill in saying lots but saying nothing.

Posted by: x2lls Feb 17 2016, 11:42 PM

What is moral panic ?

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 18 2016, 12:30 AM

Moral Panic. noun: An instance of public anxiety or alarm in response to a problem regarded as threatening the moral standards of society.

More reading: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/moral-panic

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 18 2016, 12:35 AM

What are the options? I can't say I fall on one side or the other as I don't know what the complaint is. My point in all this is that people have prejudices which manifest itself in stories like the OP. I have prejudices too, but I do my best to temper them with reason. I see no point jumping anywhere unless it clearly improves up the place I come from.

May I repeat what I said previously: "I too have reservations and I feel opening the flood gates was ill advised, but there was a humanitarian imperative behind this. And considering a lot of this was of our governments' doing, there is an obligation to get involved."

Posted by: Andy Capp Feb 18 2016, 12:46 AM

That's easy: until something is sufficiently reasoned to enable me to become 'closed minded', although I see no advantaged in being 'closed minded'.


Why? That statement seems illogical to me. We make progress as a civilised society when we enlighten ourselves to the truth. Even when we discover the truth, there is also the matter of dealing with it more intelligently.


That is because I find often when someone has a concrete opinion it is likely to be flawed. I certainly wouldn't build concrete opinion based on what I see in the news and read on the Internet.


Again that seems illogical. I take it that what you mean is that I say a lot that you don't understand or care for. The most I would like to achieve is make people question their own opinions. I doubt that I am often successful!

People like you and others feel this is the place to make statements and give opinions; for me it is a place to share and criticise opinion.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 21 2016, 07:30 PM

I see a correlation between us staying in Europe and the rise of the far right in the UK and things like this happening.
I can see Germany disintegrating....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35625595

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 21 2016, 10:59 PM

Makes a change from burning Turkish workers hostels. There has and always will be a strong undercurrent of hard right swimming just under the surface in Germany. What happened in Auschwitz, Belsen and the other camps was merely the same thing carried on to the most vicious extreme. It hasn't gone away, just underground.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Feb 21 2016, 11:12 PM

Fragmentation?
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/43205-2/

Posted by: Turin Machine Feb 27 2016, 04:12 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3465869/Inside-cosy-homes-classroom-migrants-managed-create-squalor-Calais-Jungle-set-bulldozed.html

Proper right wing Daily Wail. Sticking the boot in. Oh, wait!

Posted by: On the edge Feb 27 2016, 07:22 AM

.....and?


I wonder why the reporters hadn't noticed this before, any ideas?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Mar 14 2016, 02:01 AM

"And here comes the AFD, moving up on the rails and the crowd is on its feet!"
http://news.yahoo.com/afd-success-smashes-wing-populism-taboo-germany-212123923.html

Posted by: je suis Charlie Apr 28 2016, 11:53 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/28/europe/austria-tough-migrant-laws/index.html

Posted by: gel Oct 19 2016, 09:20 AM

Another TVP case involving the usual suspects emerges; not the first there of course.
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14808094.VIDEO__More_details_of_nine_men_emerge_after_arrests_in_connection_with_child_sex_abuse___witness_appeal/

Posted by: newres Oct 19 2016, 11:28 AM

I haven't got time to read it. What were they? Catholic priests, Berkshire school teachers, scout leaders, 7os and 80s celebrities?

Posted by: JeffG Oct 19 2016, 02:15 PM

No, a certain ethnic group which seems to figure in most of these cases.

Posted by: newres Oct 19 2016, 04:21 PM

Which ethnic group is that?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 19 2016, 04:25 PM

The wizards of Oz and Dorothy?

Posted by: blackdog Oct 19 2016, 04:51 PM

Sorry, haven't got time to tell you.

Posted by: Turin Machine Oct 20 2016, 12:14 AM

LOL

Posted by: gel Oct 20 2016, 07:33 AM

Per TVP WWW
Moinul Islam, aged 40 of Wykeham Crescent, Oxford has been charged on one count of
conspiracy to rape, and one count of conspiracy to commit buggery.

He has also been charged with two counts of supplying Class B drugs,
one count of supplying class A drugs, and one count of supplying Class C drugs.

Ceejay Jackson, aged 54, of Leon Close, Oxford has been charged on one count of
conspiracy to rape and one count of conspiracy to commit buggery.


Haji Naim Khan, aged 36, of The Willows, Oxford, has been charged on one count of Kidnap,
one count of conspiracy to rape, and one count of trafficking for sexual exploitation.

Pervez Ahmed, aged 40, of Cumberland Road, Oxford, has been charged on one count of
Kidnap, one count of conspiracy to rape, and one count of trafficking for sexual exploitation.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 20 2016, 07:41 AM

Cultural differences innit!

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 20 2016, 09:11 AM

Careful!!
The hate crime police are out there.
You could end up in clink beside them!!

Posted by: newres Oct 20 2016, 11:06 AM

So are these Syrian refugees then? Or are they all the same (brown skin)? That's what the thread is about isn't it?

Posted by: JeffG Oct 20 2016, 11:15 AM

Nothing to do with Syrian refugees. I suggest you take off your PC blinkers and read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
These cases overwhelmingly involve the same ethnic group which I did not feel was necessary to name.

It's because the police and other organisations were afraid of being labelled racist that this was allowed to go on for so long.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 20 2016, 01:47 PM

As far as I can tell, he didn't say they were, he was trying to understand the argument behind the nudge, nudge, wink, wink going on.


Although imply strongly.


Which is a matter of record, so what is your, or others' point?

Posted by: newres Oct 20 2016, 02:26 PM

Quite - my understanding is that previous scandals involved men of Pakistani origin. The events in Germany allegedly involved Arab men. The only thing in common is that they are all probably Muslim. It's like equating Romanians with British hooligans because we're all Christian. Sorry, but to my mind the post is motivated by prejudice.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 20 2016, 06:18 PM

Yeah, quite agree, still, if Labour get in they'll probably be in line for a medal instead. So that's ok.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 20 2016, 06:39 PM

Perhaps we should take a more robust view....


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37694475

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 20 2016, 07:05 PM

That should help wipe-out some religions, politicians and celebrities too; I'm in.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 20 2016, 09:36 PM

Fine, I'll get the treatment room ready for you.

Posted by: newres Oct 21 2016, 06:36 AM

What a strange thing to say. What has Labour got to do with it?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 21 2016, 08:05 AM

As I'm none of the above and bearing in mind my age, it won't be necessary.

Posted by: gel Oct 21 2016, 11:46 AM

This particular ethnic/religious group have a well known belief that women are not their equals in any sense, and to be treated worse than animals even more so if
you are a non believer too & white gets brownie points for even worse treatment.

Equally if you happen to be of that religion, but the wrong sect, you can expect appalling atrocities to befall you eg Yazidi used as sex slaves. In this case they are 'managed' by females who belong to the right sect.


Of course as an animal lover, I also deplore their depraved treatment of those in the
animal kingdom who by fate, are domiciled in one of these medieval lands.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 21 2016, 10:42 PM

Nah, cultural differences! Stop being racist!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 22 2016, 03:56 AM

It is if you and others fail to acknowledge the same activities in other societies.

Posted by: user23 Oct 22 2016, 09:19 AM

What about the particular ethnic/religious group this person is a member of?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 22 2016, 09:33 AM

Strange, must of missed the reports of Donald beheading people. Still, he is American so who knew!

Posted by: newres Oct 22 2016, 09:54 AM

Correct, it's "Old Sparky" there. Not very "christian".

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 22 2016, 12:49 PM

Are you comparing the beheading of innocent civilians with the execution of multiple murderers? Cos that what it seems like to me.
Executions in my view should only ever be performed on those individuals that have committed heinous crimes, with 100% proof and where the inmate wants to die. Not quite the same as throwing gay people off high rise buildings in the name of "religion"!😞

Posted by: user23 Oct 22 2016, 01:24 PM

The quote was not about beheading people. It was about the treatment of women.
That said, I'm fairly sure beheading people isn't prevalent in any particular ethnic/religious group.

Posted by: gel Oct 22 2016, 02:06 PM

What?
Absent in all but one religion..in current times that is.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 22 2016, 03:31 PM

Thats a disgraceful thing to say. ALL people of said religion are peaceful people. They dont have any issues with fundamentilasim....I blame the British. Imperialist bastewards. Twas only yesterday we were conquering the world and we dont give any money per capita to the rest of the world. Linekar and Allen are right. I apologise on behalf of the British people.....

Posted by: JeffG Oct 22 2016, 04:17 PM

That is utter nonsense.

Selective quotes from http://www.theweek.co.uk/63394/where-exactly-does-britains-122bn-foreign-aid-go :



In my view, this is a laudable achievement, although a fair amount of that article has some unpleasant comments.

Posted by: user23 Oct 22 2016, 04:29 PM

That is incorrect.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/anti-balaka-christian-extremism-terrorism-central-african-republic-car-africa-mass-muslim-islam-execution-behead-murder-mass-grave-genocide-uncensored-youtube/

I hope you will be apologising to that one religion.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 22 2016, 04:42 PM

Christmas 2015... Must have taken some time to dig that one out of the news archives via a google.. Wonder how long i would take with said other religion.... http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-crushes-traitors-beheadings-bombings-drownings-mass-graves-islamic-state-lashes-2434245

Booger me. A few days ago!!!!

Posted by: newres Oct 22 2016, 04:46 PM

Well, to be honest you're not too "sparky". No, I was comparing brutal methods of executing people.

Posted by: newres Oct 22 2016, 04:51 PM

Like lots of these horrible things, it's more to do with countries than religions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwdhib-bZ-s

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 22 2016, 04:55 PM

Oooo insults... 👍 You funny. I would of course bite but can't be @ssed.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 22 2016, 05:49 PM

He was being facetious.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 22 2016, 05:57 PM

He dos that.
I found this in a list of definitions of left wing extremists........."...regularly uses harsh, vulgar, intolerant language to attack moderates or conservatives. . ."

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 22 2016, 06:29 PM

Good ole Don, rich, western and white. Three crimes wrapped up in one. Hoorah!

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 22 2016, 07:48 PM

I still think the result will be close. People despise both candidates.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-02/un-official-accidentally-crushes-own-throat-right-testifying-against-hillary-clinton

Posted by: Cognosco Oct 22 2016, 08:11 PM

It seems that is the norm in today's politics we are offered candidates that no one really wants?

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2016, 06:08 AM

'Sparky' is ."...harsh, vulgar, intolerant language"?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 23 2016, 06:36 AM

It was a personal insult. Basically because of my views it was intimating that I was a bit thick. A sweeping generalisation that if you don't hold the same views as me then you are stupid. A bit like the remainers on brexit saying all leavers are not "sparky". Most typically used by people thay have lost the argument.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 23 2016, 07:34 AM

Wot 'e sed.

Posted by: user23 Oct 23 2016, 07:58 AM

I found it on my first google search and Christmas 2015 is hardly ancient history.

I'm sure most would say something that happening in the past year is "current times".

Why are you defending it?

Posted by: newres Oct 23 2016, 09:21 AM

Because he would have to admit that he's wrong.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2016, 09:23 AM

I can only deduce soft racists are a bit sensitive then. It was cheeky, but I cannot see harsh or vulgarity in it. Indeed, it wasn't saying you are thick because of your views, it was suggested you were being slow to understand a point. That's how I saw it anyway.

Posted by: newres Oct 23 2016, 04:02 PM

More or less. He was being deliberately obtuse and falsely outraged because he reckoned I was comparing the slaughter of innocents to the execution of alleged criminals. In fact I was comparing barbaric methods of execution. Arguably, beheading is a kinder death than the electric chair. If I had to choose, I'd choose beheading.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 23 2016, 04:14 PM

Whats a soft racist? I guess in your mind someone that voted brexit.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 23 2016, 04:17 PM

"Falsely outraged". Is that not the default now?

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 23 2016, 04:24 PM

Im not. Are you defending killers from other none Christian religions? I hate all religion. Why believe in something that is not posssible? You would be dellusional. Oh... Most of the world is.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 23 2016, 06:09 PM

In part yes, but I voted Brexit too, so I'm a soft racist as well.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Oct 23 2016, 07:28 PM

You should be locked up then.

Posted by: Turin Machine Oct 24 2016, 01:07 AM

Soft racist / hard pseud

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 24 2016, 05:02 AM

Not thick but "slow to understand a point".
Sorry, could you explain the difference, I am finding my self being somewhat slow to understand.
Not being thick mind you!!


Doh!
Maybe I have just explained the difference to myself!
Sorry for being slow, maybe I'm thick!!

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 24 2016, 03:12 PM

I'm not sure where that come from, except I don't claim to know much about anything. What I have come to realise is it isn't whether one knows much, you just need to know more than the berks around you.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 24 2016, 03:20 PM

Someone failing to understand a point could easily be down to the way the point is made. It doesn't follow that failing to understand is a demonstration of 'thick'ness.

Posted by: newres Oct 24 2016, 05:25 PM

Well someone could do something stupid but not be a stupid person.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 24 2016, 08:12 PM

Or someone could be mislead by duff information, but that doesn't make them stupid.

Posted by: On the edge Oct 24 2016, 08:45 PM

And therein lies the state of politics today. The misuse of information and the deliberate twisting of literal meanings. In other words. treating the every day citizen as if they are stupid. Classics like 'social housing', 'the bedroom tax' and 'child immigrants' etc, etc, etc. I'm sure the list is very long.

Posted by: newres Oct 25 2016, 04:36 AM

You're thinking of Brexit and the NHS pledge? Actually, I think anyone that believed that would have had to be pretty stupid. Unfortunately many did.

Posted by: newres Oct 25 2016, 04:39 AM

You've lost me.

Posted by: Biker1 Oct 25 2016, 05:00 AM

From where have you gleaned the information that it will not happen and believed it?
We haven't left yet and therefore are still paying our contribution to the EU.
The NHS has to be funded from somewhere. No political party would renegade on that. So extra cash has to be found to pay for the additional services and patients.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Oct 25 2016, 05:51 AM

Not difficult.

Posted by: Andy Capp Oct 25 2016, 08:05 AM

It is not certain, I believe unlikely, that cash will be freed-up by Brexit.

Posted by: newres Oct 25 2016, 08:14 AM

Nigel Farage the morning after the vote.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 8 2017, 10:46 AM

And now it emerges that at least 18 sex attacks took place in Innsbruck this new year Eve. Deja vu?

Posted by: x2lls Jan 8 2017, 12:16 PM

The operative words being 'at least'.
If 18 reported, how many in reality? And I'll bet not just Innsbruck either. I wonder how much has been hushed up.

Posted by: newres Jan 8 2017, 04:33 PM

Were refugees from Syria or Iraq the perpetrators this time?

Posted by: x2lls Jan 8 2017, 04:41 PM

I doubt they were followers of the religion of peace

You could have found out for yourself, but if you want an answer to your question, I suggest you google 'innsbruck sexual assault'.

Posted by: newres Jan 8 2017, 04:45 PM

It's not clear is it?

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 8 2017, 05:38 PM

"The assailants, who surrounded and forcefully kissed and groped their victims, were reportedly to be in their late teens and have been described as being of Asian or North-African descent."

Definitely ambiguous.

Posted by: newres Jan 8 2017, 06:03 PM

I asked if they were Syrian or Iraqi refugees. Not all darkies are from there.

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 8 2017, 06:49 PM

Dunno! "The unit has been tasked with searching all shelters holding asylum seekers in Innsbruck and nearby areas in the Tyrol state in western Austria to locate the offenders, Euronews reported on Friday citing Innsbruck police commander, Martin Kirchler."

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 8 2017, 07:34 PM

Guess they were asking for it. They were white women celebrating a date that is not recognised. Probably dressed inappropriatly and drunk as well...

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 11 2017, 01:20 PM

One in three women harassed while running, survey finds


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38568166

dressed like that what do they expect?

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 11 2017, 02:18 PM

Yeah but that is just mild Christian banter.

Posted by: dannyboy Jan 11 2017, 03:03 PM

Phew - thought there was a problem for a while.

Apparently some immigrant who kissed a woman tried to kill himself in the dock this morning. What do these people think - bloody perverts.

Posted by: x2lls Jan 26 2017, 01:45 PM

Not to be harrased I suppose.
Nice attitude there.

Posted by: JeffG Jan 26 2017, 04:15 PM

Are you being serious? That was obviously a joke (or irony, if you prefer).

Posted by: x2lls Jan 27 2017, 12:12 AM

So the survey is bollox is it?

My wife has been accosted when on her way up the road, doing her thing, dressed like anyone you would see in town. What should she expect?
You have to ask?

Posted by: JeffG Jan 27 2017, 09:55 AM

The comment made was nothing to do with the survey - it was to do with the woman pictured. I really shouldn't have to explain the connection between a woman dressed perfectly normally (albeit with a headscarf) and ironically repeating a comment made by some bigoted people about ladies who dress less formally.

The comment (joke) was hardly showing a bad attitude - or maybe you just don't get it.

Posted by: gel Jan 28 2017, 05:29 PM

Medieval Mind Set:

Assimilation into Western mind set clearly not a migrant option:_
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/759662/Migrant-gang-burn-down-Dunkirk-Refugee-Women-s-Centre

Posted by: je suis Charlie Jan 28 2017, 05:43 PM

Cultural difference innit!

Posted by: Turin Machine Jan 28 2017, 07:29 PM

Donalds got the idea. You go Don!

Posted by: Andy Capp Jan 28 2017, 08:08 PM

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 28 2017, 08:16 PM

Build the wall!!!! 😄

Posted by: newres Jan 29 2017, 07:16 AM

Just so you know, Mexicans aren't Muslims.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Jan 29 2017, 08:39 AM

Really? Well I never....

Posted by: x2lls Feb 9 2017, 08:24 PM

The wall was not mentioned in the context of Islam.

Just so you know, muslims are not necessarily mexicans.

Posted by: TallDarkAndHandsome Feb 9 2017, 08:43 PM

But some Mexicans are muslims. They must be real bad hombres!

Posted by: x2lls Feb 9 2017, 10:16 PM

Sigh