Muppetry at Thatcham Level Crossing Today, What on earth was going on? Options

[Washwaterman]

No!, you don't say!!

No, can't do that. All to do with safe stopping distances etc. You need to look at facts a bit more before making assumptions.
Obviously not for the fast trains but they Manage it in Holland and other parts of the world
They do. (If the trains is heading towards Reading and there is no other train coming).
Granted but not every time

Like to know how many times you cross the crossing.

20 minutes? The Ghost Train? what on earth are you talking about?
You need to look at facts a bit more before making assumptions.
Ghost train, yes been seen it or not barriers down then raised with no train going through FACT.

By who? It's discussed on here enough.
Various times this topic has been raised
Here is a page where you can submit comments / suggesti
ons regarding the crossing to NR.

[Biker1]

Actually, just noticed the slogan at the top of the page on the link.
"Level crossings.
They're not time wasters, They're life savers."

[Washwaterman]

Actually, just noticed the slogan at the top of the page on the link.
"Level crossings.
They're not time wasters, They're life savers."

Feel my life ebbing away the amount of time I spend waiting there

[motormad]

Actually, just noticed the slogan at the top of the page on the link.
"Level crossings.
They're not time wasters, They're life savers."

they can be both.

[Biker1]

Feel my life ebbing away the amount of time I spend waiting there

I agree, it is a problem, but I get annoyed at some of the misunderstandings held by many of why the barriers are down for the time they are.
There is no easy (cheap) solution.
Crossings are a legacy from the past when roads were not a consideration when building a railway. (There was not much on them!)
All I know is that no more are being built (or have been for many years) and NR is keen to remove as many as possible. There are probably many other crossings that cause as much road congestion. (And probably much more in many cases.)
How far Thatcham is down the priority list for removal I would not know.
Perhaps WWMan's inquiries with NR may enlighten us.

[Andy Capp]

I seems to me, despite your sneering, the most practical available tool is a gate down app. I was trialist and was unhappy about some of the ways it works, but I miss it. It is great to know if the next half hour are predicted as busy, and if you are caught, you can see roughly how longs you will be sat. This knowledge really does help to reduce the annoyance when held up.

Considering the relative modest expense, it as sad that Network Rail were not interested in help finance the development.

[Biker1]

I seems to me, despite your sneering, the most practical available tool is a gate down app. I was trialist and was unhappy about some of the ways it works, but I miss it. It is great to know if the next half hour are predicted as busy, and if you are caught, you can see roughly how longs you will be sat. This knowledge really does help to reduce the annoyance when held up.

Considering the relative modest expense, it as sad that Network Rail were not interested in help finance the development.

I agree, some sort of on-line system that can reliably tell people when the barriers will be down would be extremely useful.
The reason I "sneer" is that, due to the unpredictability of the railway operation, I fail to see how such a system can possibly reliable predict when the barriers will be down in sufficient time to allow users to plan and use an alternative route, or to change their planned travelling time.
I have, however, throughout wished the scheme "good luck"!

[Andy Capp]

The reason I "sneer" is that, due to the unpredictability of the railway operation, I fail to see how such a system can possibly reliable predict when the barriers will be down in sufficient time to allow users to plan and use an alternative route, or to change their planned travelling time.

OK, so this useful, but...

I agree, some sort of on-line system that can reliably tell people when the barriers will be down would be extremely useful.

...this isn't?

Like I said, one useful feature is to recognise periods of the next hour that have high possibility of being caught and when I there is a low possibility. Another handy feature (for the millionth time) is that when sat there waiting, being able to see roughly how long you will be is half the battle against frustration.

Your apparent sarcasm with your good luck messages is obvious.

[Blake]

But would an app tell you if the barriers were stuck down and broken?; that was the problem we all had on the 12th.

[Biker1]

OK, so this useful, but...


...this isn't?


Your apparent sarcasm with your good luck messages is obvious.

The emphasis being on the word "reliable" in both cases AC.
Seriously I wish it luck.
One of the rare cases where I would like to be proved wrong.

[Andy Capp]

The emphasis being on the word "reliable" in both cases AC.
Seriously I wish it luck.
One of the rare cases where I would like to be proved wrong.

It is not 100% reliable, but it doesn't need to be. What happens is, after a while, you get to know times that are safer, that's how the app worked for me. If I did get caught out, I'd check the app and get an idea how long I will be waiting, I would then have a choice to bother going a different way, or just holding out.

The blurb is here: http://levelx.info/index.php/how-it-works

It's around 97% accurate, whatever that means.

My view is I like the idea, but I'm not keen on the solution (for iPhone).

[spartacus]

It might ‘work’ but is it ‘useful’?

Why I see this app as being a waste of bandwidth is that whilst it might give some basic level of information on how long you might have to wait, that doesn’t of course take into account how far back you might be in the queue of traffic. Drivers have to factor in whether it’s worth waiting in the queue and whether the vehicles in front of them will get to the crossing before the barriers come down again. And even then, once you’ve committed to come down Crookham Hill on the assumption that you’ll make it to the crossing but then are faced with a long queue of cars, there’s not much you can do about it. Turning around on that narrow road isn’t an option (especially as you may be half way through a 3 point turn by the time the barriers open and a convoy of speeding and frustrated drivers from the Thatcham side race towards you.



It’s something to play with as you site in the car. Not really much use though.

[Andy Capp]

It might ‘work’ but is it ‘useful’?

Why I see this app as being a waste of bandwidth is that whilst it might give some basic level of information on how long you might have to wait, that doesn’t of course take into account how far back you might be in the queue of traffic. Drivers have to factor in whether it’s worth waiting in the queue and whether the vehicles in front of them will get to the crossing before the barriers come down again. And even then, once you’ve committed to come down Crookham Hill on the assumption that you’ll make it to the crossing but then are faced with a long queue of cars, there’s not much you can do about it. Turning around on that narrow road isn’t an option (especially as you may be half way through a 3 point turn by the time the barriers open and a convoy of speeding and frustrated drivers from the Thatcham side race towards you.

It’s something to play with as you site in the car. Not really much use though.

You obviously don't read well.

No, it's not perfect, but I have already explained how it can be useful and it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to work out that if the app says the gates will be down from 0800 to 0815 and then again from 0816 to 0821 in the morning, the queue is gonna be big immediately after! Notwithstanding there are queues both sides, so while some of your councillor mates might struggle to 3 point turn their Vogues on Crookham Hill, that problem isn't so great the other side. Also, if you are in a long queue, if you check the app, you can check how long the barriers will be up, because if it is only for a minute or so before they go down again, you can decide to bail.

The point for all you dingbats is that it gives you easy and readable access to information that tells you the quietest periods in the hour. I found after a while I didn't really need the app as I had started to learn the time periods.

So to answer your question: yes, it is useful, but it is not perfect. My gripe is with the program, not the idea.


HOWEVER, it is the only available help we have with the problem.

[Biker1]

it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to work out that if the app says the gates will be down from 0800 to 0815 and then again from 0816 to 0821 in the morning,

But again I don't see how it can do this.
The gates are operated manually at the demand of approaching trains.
If one of those trains is late, or is delayed for some reason (or possibly even early!!) how can it predict a manual action?
It is often down to seconds as to whether the signaller keeps the barriers down between trains or raises them.
If the app. gives inaccurate information then surely it is a hindrance rather than a help?
I know trains run to a timetable but, as everyone knows, this can and does change.
There are so many factors which can influence this.
I am sorry but, having a knowledge of how railways and signalling work, I am finding it difficult to see how a system like this can predict accurately an operation which changes constantly as the situation demands.

[Andy Capp]

I am sorry but, having a knowledge of how railways and signalling work

I am finding it difficult to see how a system like this can predict accurately an operation which changes constantly as the situation demands.

It isn't necessarily about predicting accurately all the time; every time (although it would be nice)!!! If you get caught occasionally, so what, on average the system worked. Occasionally it didn't. I was able to see after a while when the high-risk times were and when the low risk times were: what is so freakin' hard to understand about that!!!

Take this image as an example.

]

I would look at this and think that between 0720 and 0725 is a good time to pick, given that trains are not often more than a few minutes late. If I was due at the crossing at 0710 then I'd consider an alternative route because it is waiting for two trains; however, if the down time was for a single HST, then I wouldn't be fussed because they usually only cause the barriers to be down for about 3 minutes.

Behind the scenes we are using data feeds from Network Rail, and also a camera giving the exact closing times of the gates. Combining these two information sources enables us to build a history of how trains run, and an accurate prediction of future closing times - including those from delayed trains and freight trains, which you can't find out from passenger timetables.

Now that I don't have the app, I do miss it. That's all the endorsement it needs for me.

[Biker1]

Only stating a fact AC.
I only said that because many show their ignorance on here of how it all works.
far be it from me to blow my own trumpet eh?
(Yourself excluded of course! )

given that trains are not often more than a few minutes late.

You hear that OTE??

[On the edge]

Yeah, I heard. Remember folks, the timetable is only for fun. Oh well, I suppose just like the trains, we have to put up with time expired technology trackside. Makes me (and a lot of others) question why we are investing in HS2 - when there is so much to put right on the old stuff.

The link you provided is fascinating. Has anyone thought of looking totally afresh at train control needs based on what is actually avaliable and safe today?

I still think UK railway engineering is amazing. For instance, it's amazing that a six year old kid can make a toy train go round a circle, but for all its clever investment TfL can't...

[Biker1]

The link you provided is fascinating. Has anyone thought of looking totally afresh at train control needs based on what is actually avaliable and safe today?

This is what we will have in the future on most main lines.
It will gradually be integrated into the new electric trains on GW.
I wonder if the timescales given will be achieved?.

[Andy Capp]

This is what we will have in the future on most main lines.
It will gradually be integrated into the new electric trains on GW.
I wonder if the timescales given will be achieved?.

Server Error in '/' Application.

Runtime Error
Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine.

[JeffG]

Interesting stuff but I had to give up on the video after a short while. The thumping bass line hurt my ears and also drowned out the commentary. Shame, because it looked interesting.